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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:28:36 PM EST
[#1]
My thoughts:
The talent level of modern professional ball players is leaps and bounds better than the first generations of ball players. Not to say that the established legends of baseball werent good. Of course they were! But the pool of talent is so refined now in the majors that the level of competition is far above what the Legends had to face. Your average modern pitcher probably pitches quite a bit faster and has more pitches in his arsenal that what Babe Ruth or DiMaggio faced. I might be wrong of course. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:33:50 PM EST
[#2]
Nolan Ryan ??
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:36:04 PM EST
[#3]
Jim thorpe
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:45:13 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:45:57 PM EST
[#5]
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:47:24 PM EST
[#6]
Barry Bonds has my vote. Even before steroids he was MVP.
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:49:49 PM EST
[#7]
All around, Babe Ruth.
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:53:12 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1. Baseball is a pitcher’s game and he was the best there has been. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan +1. Baseball is a pitcher’s game and he was the best there has been. Plus another. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 12:59:51 PM EST
[#9]
Ichrio
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Posted: 10/2/2022 1:00:43 PM EST
[#10]
Sidd Finch
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Posted: 10/2/2022 1:01:12 PM EST
[#11]
Doc Ellis...pitched a no hitter while stoned on acid...
My hero! |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 1:07:03 PM EST
[#12]
You guys are all wrong. It was Stan the Man Musial obviously.
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Posted: 10/2/2022 1:15:14 PM EST
[#13]
Pete Rose
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Posted: 10/2/2022 3:58:58 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. I'd pick Nolan Ryan. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:11:48 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. He’s typically second in the conversation only behind babe Ruth. What’s even more impressive about his home run totals is that he 1) was in the service for two of his prime years; 2) played the first several years of his career at the Polo Grounds, which was one of if not the most difficult parks to homer in; and 3) he was only 5’10” and 175-180 lbs Polo Grounds was the hardest park to get a home run to center field, the fences ranged from 475 to over 500 feet depending on which year, they kept changing where they put up the outfield fences. But anyone could hit one down the right or left field foul lines, both were well under 300 feet. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:12:51 PM EST
[#16]
Ted Williams
 "...his career was interrupted by military service during World War II and the Korean War..." "...Williams likely would have exceeded 600 career home runs if he had not served in the military, and might even have approached Babe Ruth's then record of 714. He might have set the record for career RBIs as well, exceeding Hank Aaron's total. While the absences in the Marine Corps took almost five years out of his baseball career..." |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:18:03 PM EST
[#17]
Where’s Warren Spahn? Ted Williams?
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:21:28 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. Nolan Ryan "totally overrated"  https://www.mlb.com/news/nolan-ryan-amazing-stats-and-facts |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:23:46 PM EST
[#19]
Rick Vaughn
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:28:05 PM EST
[#20]
Ruth then Cobb.
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Posted: 10/2/2022 5:42:57 PM EST
[#21]
Sorry but the answer can never be a starting pithcer. As good as Nolan Ryan was, he never played in more than 42 games, only won 20+ two times and both times he lost 16 games. IMO, to be considered the best you have to be an everyday player.
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Posted: 10/2/2022 5:45:41 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. LOL not hardly. Ryan was the last of the pitchers that would kick your ass on the field, then try to catch you in the parking lot to throw you a beating for talking shit after the game. If you think he’s overrated, you probably liked his rival teams. Plus, he likes guns, bbq, beer, and fishing. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 5:46:26 PM EST
[#23]
Stan Musial |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 6:05:32 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL not hardly. Ryan was the last of the pitchers that would kick your ass on the field, then try to catch you in the parking lot to throw you a beating for talking shit after the game. If you think he’s overrated, you probably liked his rival teams. Plus, he likes guns, bbq, beer, and fishing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. LOL not hardly. Ryan was the last of the pitchers that would kick your ass on the field, then try to catch you in the parking lot to throw you a beating for talking shit after the game. If you think he’s overrated, you probably liked his rival teams. Plus, he likes guns, bbq, beer, and fishing. Nolan Ryan isnt even the best pitcher, let alone player. Hell, I dont know if he makes the top 5 |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 6:40:12 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nolan Ryan isnt even the best pitcher, let alone player. Hell, I dont know if he makes the top 5 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. LOL not hardly. Ryan was the last of the pitchers that would kick your ass on the field, then try to catch you in the parking lot to throw you a beating for talking shit after the game. If you think he’s overrated, you probably liked his rival teams. Plus, he likes guns, bbq, beer, and fishing. Nolan Ryan isnt even the best pitcher, let alone player. Hell, I dont know if he makes the top 5 That’s a matter of opinion. I never said he was the best, only that calling him overrated is absurd. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:10:24 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nolan Ryan "totally overrated" /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205-381.gif https://www.mlb.com/news/nolan-ryan-amazing-stats-and-facts Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. Nolan Ryan "totally overrated" /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205-381.gif https://www.mlb.com/news/nolan-ryan-amazing-stats-and-facts Yes, 100%. He’s not even in the conversation for best pitcher, let alone best player. No offense to the guy, and if he’s your favorite player, that’s fine, but the numbers don’t remotely justify calling him the best. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:15:45 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a matter of opinion. I never said he was the best, only that calling him overrated is absurd. Overrated is a subjective statement. There are tons of people here who clearly know very little about baseball as it seems that Ryan is a popular choice. By most meaningful metrics (WAR, WHIP, W-L%, ERA+, etc.) it is abundantly clear that Ryan is not even a top ten all-time pitcher. He was clearly the best at certain things - strikeouts, velocity, H/9 - but he was also either straight up bad at other things (walks) or middling (ERA). I mean even a five year old understands that a walk is the same number of total bases as a single. Ryan allowed lots of baserunners, lots of runs, and lost lots of games. This really isn't hard to understand. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:19:03 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ted Williams "...his career was interrupted by military service during World War II and the Korean War..." "...Williams likely would have exceeded 600 career home runs if he had not served in the military, and might even have approached Babe Ruth's then record of 714. He might have set the record for career RBIs as well, exceeding Hank Aaron's total. While the absences in the Marine Corps took almost five years out of his baseball career..." This. He was John Glenn's wingman in Korea as well as the best ball player ever. When I was a kid my dad bought a Ted William a fishing boat from Sears. 
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:30:37 AM EST
[#29]
Hard to pick one player but I'm going with Willie Mays.
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:33:58 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Overrated is a subjective statement. There are tons of people here who clearly know very little about baseball as it seems that Ryan is a popular choice. By most meaningful metrics (WAR, WHIP, W-L%, ERA+, etc.) it is abundantly clear that Ryan is not even a top ten all-time pitcher. He was clearly the best at certain things - strikeouts, velocity, H/9 - but he was also either straight up bad at other things (walks) or middling (ERA). I mean even a five year old understands that a walk is the same number of total bases as a single. Ryan allowed lots of baserunners, lots of runs, and lost lots of games. This really isn't hard to understand. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That’s a matter of opinion. I never said he was the best, only that calling him overrated is absurd. Overrated is a subjective statement. There are tons of people here who clearly know very little about baseball as it seems that Ryan is a popular choice. By most meaningful metrics (WAR, WHIP, W-L%, ERA+, etc.) it is abundantly clear that Ryan is not even a top ten all-time pitcher. He was clearly the best at certain things - strikeouts, velocity, H/9 - but he was also either straight up bad at other things (walks) or middling (ERA). I mean even a five year old understands that a walk is the same number of total bases as a single. Ryan allowed lots of baserunners, lots of runs, and lost lots of games. This really isn't hard to understand. He was incredibly durable, which padded his career stats. He managed to be a slightly above average player for many years. But at any given time there were lots of guys you’d rather have pitching for you. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:36:24 AM EST
[#31]
Nolan Ryan
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:37:25 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ohtani has had the best two seasons of anyone ever, by far. Dude can hit, pitch, and run. They just need to find a real team to play for. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:38:56 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? A ton of ass-clowns think Lebron James is better. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:49:41 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was incredibly durable, which padded his career stats. He managed to be a slightly above average player for many years. But at any given time there were lots of guys you’d rather have pitching for you. Yes, he threw a lot for a lot of years. A lot of his career was during a time when there weren't modern pitch counts and all of that. So I am willing to grant him a lot of leeway on that point. But the fact is in terms of what really mattered - baserunners allowed, leading to runs allowed, leading to winning the game - he was only a little above average. Ryan pitched for 27 years, so being above average is actually worth a lot. It's easy to use an extreme counterexample like Eric Gagne - perhaps the most dominant three seasons in baseball history from 2002 to 2004, but that's all he ever did. But better examples are guys like Pedro Martinez (18 years), Greg Maddux (23 years), Randy Johnson (22 years), Roger Clemens (24 years), Clayton Kershaw (15 years), and so on. Being at or near the top of the league over that length of time is worth way more than being a little above average (but flashy) for a slightly longer time. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:53:01 AM EST
[#35]
Position player……Ruth by a mile.
Pitcher…..this is harder, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Sandy Koufax, Randy Johnson. The amazing thing is, if not converted to the outfield, Ruth might be in this category also. Imagine his numbers if he started his career as an outfielder. George Herman Ruth was a robot created to play baseball. 2nd place is arguable, 1st is not. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:55:02 AM EST
[#36]
I love all the mentions of Nolan Ryan. He defined what a power pitcher looked like for over a generation. He defined dominance, but it didn't translate to wins. There are all kinds of reasons, but there were other pitchers in his era on really shitty teams who racked up the wins. Ryan did not.
He was never even considered the best pitcher in his own league in any given year. He was usually not even considered. He is definitely an all-time iconic player, and I am a pretty big fan of his, but he is not even in the conversation of greatest ever. ETA - I see this has been covered. I would bet that if all of the Ryan enthusiasts were asked what was his greatest moment, at least half of them would say the Ventura noogie . |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 7:57:04 AM EST
[#37]
Willie Mays
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Posted: 10/3/2022 8:06:56 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? A ton of ass-clowns think Lebron James is better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Greatest player in baseball is kinda suggestive, as seen already. It really is a fun discussion though. It’s not like NBA where Jordan can hold the title and very few would argue against it. Really? A ton of ass-clowns think Lebron James is better. In a recent interview Jordan was asked if he thought the 90's Bulls could defeat the 2020's lakers. Jordan stated he thought they could be it would be close, under 10 points at the final score, but the 1990's bulls team would win. reporter asked why. ' Jordan says " well most of us are in our 60's now so...." |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 8:21:31 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, he threw a lot for a lot of years. A lot of his career was during a time when there weren't modern pitch counts and all of that. So I am willing to grant him a lot of leeway on that point. But the fact is in terms of what really mattered - baserunners allowed, leading to runs allowed, leading to winning the game - he was only a little above average. Ryan pitched for 27 years, so being above average is actually worth a lot. It's easy to use an extreme counterexample like Eric Gagne - perhaps the most dominant three seasons in baseball history from 2002 to 2004, but that's all he ever did. But better examples are guys like Pedro Martinez (18 years), Greg Maddux (23 years), Randy Johnson (22 years), Roger Clemens (24 years), Clayton Kershaw (15 years), and so on. Being at or near the top of the league over that length of time is worth way more than being a little above average (but flashy) for a slightly longer time. Agreed. Ryan was a good pitcher for a very very long time. It's hard to say he was ever the best in the league at any point in his career. He is no doubt one of the all time greats, but certainly NOT the best pitcher ever. His win/loss ratio and ERA automatically rule him out for best of all time. ARF is obsessed with Texas stuff, like Titos average vodka. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 8:21:33 AM EST
[#40]
Other, Stan Musial
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Posted: 10/3/2022 8:24:10 AM EST
[#41]
New guys are more trained.
I'm still amazed guys like Aaron, Mantle, Rith, etc, did what they did drinking, smoking, chasing women, while riding on trains and not having all the benefits of modern training and sports medicine. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:32:46 AM EST
[#42]
Which era? Modern ball players would destroy guys from 100 years ago. The game and players have evolved. That being said... you don't get players like Albert Pujols without Ruth, Williams, Cobb blazing a trail.
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:46:05 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where’s Warren Spahn? Ted Williams? I grew up around Warren Spahn. in fact he his buried about 50 yards from my family plot. he was special and one of the greats. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:47:18 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. He was John Glenn's wingman in Korea as well as the best ball player ever. When I was a kid my dad bought a Ted William a fishing boat from Sears. I still wear a 3rd Generation Ted Williams bird hunting coat. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:48:55 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:you don't get players like Albert Pujols without Ruth, Williams, Cobb blazing a trail. 
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:55:40 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Willie mays Hayes He may have run like Mays, but he hit like shit. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 10:06:41 AM EST
[#47]
Tony Gwynn
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Posted: 10/3/2022 10:08:34 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Roberto Clemente |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 10:34:54 AM EST
[#49]
How many people would even know Nolan Ryan without the Netflix show that came on?
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Posted: 10/3/2022 10:46:12 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a matter of opinion. I never said he was the best, only that calling him overrated is absurd. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nolan Ryan ?? Totally overrated now. When he played he was always regarded as one dimensional. Maybe that was a little unfair, but imagine it’s 1970. Do you want him on your team for the next few years, or Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, or Steve Carlton? He was very durable. LOL not hardly. Ryan was the last of the pitchers that would kick your ass on the field, then try to catch you in the parking lot to throw you a beating for talking shit after the game. If you think he’s overrated, you probably liked his rival teams. Plus, he likes guns, bbq, beer, and fishing. Nolan Ryan isnt even the best pitcher, let alone player. Hell, I dont know if he makes the top 5 That’s a matter of opinion. I never said he was the best, only that calling him overrated is absurd. It's absurd to people who only count his no-hitters. Which is fine; he had a bunch of them. He put a lot of people on base---compared to other GOAT-candidate SPs. Worse than that, he also gave up a lot of runs compared to others in that set. Which is why he doesn't crack a Top 10 alltime SP list. Take it up with SABR. |
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