How hard is it to hit a target at 500+ yards? - Page 5

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How hard is it to hit a target at 500+ yards? (Page 5 of 8)

Posted: 10/27/2011 2:18:55 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Whoever mentioned that the .223 is not so good past 500, I have put plenty where I want them at 600, as do all the guys (and girls) shooting proned and slung.

Only when hunting varmints. After 500, the wind scoots the bullet around a bit, and a near miss sends them scurrying down their hole.

For targets, I'd have no problem at that range and further, but I wouldn't expect a 1" group by any stretch of the imagination.

Exactly.

Practice with varmints. If you can hit one at 500yds with a 223 (and you can -all day long- once you're good).

Anything bigger than a grapefruit is easy at that range, with practice.

Posted: 10/27/2011 3:47:36 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
This is now a Marine bootcamp score thread.

237.

Wow––that was my score on qual day at PI.

Posted: 10/27/2011 4:30:56 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

This is now a Marine bootcamp score thread.
237.

242

company high shooter

wait one for i love me wall goodness

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/301932_2441833641997_1136491082_2791858_2073719537_n.jpg

Outstanding! (our high shooter was 239) What was your experiance shooting before the Marines?

Posted: 10/27/2011 5:21:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

This is now a Marine bootcamp score thread.
237.

242

company high shooter

wait one for i love me wall goodness

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/301932_2441833641997_1136491082_2791858_2073719537_n.jpg

Outstanding! (our high shooter was 239) What was your experiance shooting before the Marines?

shooting since I was..... I don't know, pretty young..... Grandfather ran the CMP program on LI, was a rifle coach, dad was high shooter coming out of boot camp - both had me shooting a bit when I was young.

competitive shooting I did international air pistol when I was in High School (no rifle team at my school) and went distinguished in that - I have it somewhere but I was in the top 10 in the country for juniors.... did a good amount of rifle also during that.... IPSC/IDPA also (I was one of the last 18 year olds in NYS to get a pistol license).... a bit of .22 pistol competition....

College tried for the shooting team - was told nope, didn't shoot in HS, no shooting in College - said fuck it and has some MECEPs run a few of us through some SSP training.... ended up getting suspended from school because of that but was shooting out to 1k quite a bit.... shot the sniper's paradise sniper challenge with an AD Army sniper - did alright....

lil bit of shooting..... my PMI video taped me on the range - and, instead of pulling pits, I helped coach a few of our guys who were close to UNQ.... got one kid who was a definite UNQ to qualify..... almost had the RO strangle me over it but, he qual'd

good times

*edit*

since then I have only tied my 242.... this past year - and I dropped one point on table 2 (because fuck you T zone.....)

I was always over a 240 except for my last qual on Active Duty - 236..... I was still pretty drunk from the night before - shooting qual at pu'uloa in Hawaii is the tits though

Posted: 10/27/2011 6:10:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
There is nothing more satisfying and frustrating at the same time than shooting an AR out to 1K yds...
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/1ktargetup.jpg

iron sights no less

Posted: 10/27/2011 6:19:31 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
How many rounds would you have to shoot for practice to be able to hit a man sized target at 500 yards with, say, a 20'' bbl AR.? What about a .308 bolt gun with a decent scope? I've only shot out to 100 yards.

Edit: Haven't shot an AR, all I can afford for now is my shotgun and unconverted Saiga.

Wind, and the better BC you can get - the less of a problem this is

Trigger control, ball and dummy drills will clean up a sloppy trigger pull really quick

Equipment, my 308 saiga isn't likely to pull this off if I had a fixed parallax scope on it - even though the cartridge can do it. This sorta like but not quite like tolerance stacking, everything in the setup is wrong for 500 yards.

Ammo, I just shot a .308 REPR that was an amazing 6 MOA at 100 yards with mil surp. I would swore it was something with the gun until switching to factory match ammo and then shot 1/2 MOA.

Posted: 10/27/2011 6:26:35 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
How many rounds would you have to shoot for practice to be able to hit a man sized target at 500 yards with, say, a 20'' bbl AR.? What about a .308 bolt gun with a decent scope? I've only shot out to 100 yards.

Edit: Haven't shot an AR, all I can afford for now is my shotgun and unconverted Saiga.

i've been shooting for a long time now, mostly out to 200 at times 300 yards. last spring i got a chance to shoot 500 yards.
it was easier then i had thought it would be, just remember all the basics of marksmanship, use good proven loads for your rifle, and pay attention to what the old long range guy is telling you about the wind.

edit - rem 700 .308 with 175 gr smk hand loads ....

Posted: 10/28/2011 3:42:49 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

The .308 is dropping like a stone when you take other calibers into consideration. The 6.5 flavor of bullets is once that certainly comes to mind.

The drop tends to be between 30 and 40 MOA at 1000 for both. Certainly not "dropping like a stone". It is the Palma cartridge, after all.

Posted: 10/28/2011 3:57:30 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The .308 is dropping like a stone when you take other calibers into consideration. The 6.5 flavor of bullets is once that certainly comes to mind.

The drop tends to be between 30 and 40 MOA at 1000 for both. Certainly not "dropping like a stone". It is the Palma cartridge, after all.

200y zero, 260 @ 3100 123amax = 22moa at 1k

Posted: 10/28/2011 4:01:22 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

200y zero, 260 @ 3100 123amax = 22moa at 1k

Which would put it at about a 30 MOA drop from 0 to 1000.

Posted: 10/28/2011 4:32:22 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The .308 is dropping like a stone when you take other calibers into consideration. The 6.5 flavor of bullets is once that certainly comes to mind.

The drop tends to be between 30 and 40 MOA at 1000 for both. Certainly not "dropping like a stone". It is the Palma cartridge, after all.

It is dropping like a stone and what KD shooting it is used for is completely immaterial.

Posted: 10/28/2011 1:16:00 PM EDT

[#12]

No shit it's dropping like a stone.
Gravity is constant.

Posted: 10/28/2011 1:26:29 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
No shit it's dropping like a stone.

Gravity is constant.

But lateral velocity and rate of deceleration are involved. Yes, I thought the same thing when I read the statement in question.

Posted: 10/28/2011 2:10:13 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

That was pretty much a guaranteed 10/10 for me, but my eyes were MUCH younger back then (34 years ago!), and I was almost half my current size!

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:28:04 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
No shit it's dropping like a stone.

Gravity is constant.

Not really, since it varies, but that affects BOTH 6.5 and .308 equally.

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:29:41 PM EDT

[#16]

Fine, local gravity is constant.....
nit pickers.....

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:30:00 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

It is dropping like a stone and what KD shooting it is used for is completely immaterial.

Considering that the discussion involves the difficulty (or not) of hitting a target at 500 yards, I'd say
KD shooting is hardly immaterial.

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:30:54 PM EDT

[#18]

It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:33:34 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:47:57 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Possibly. I understand the internet fudge factor. You're talking about a paper shaped human target too.

Posted: 10/30/2011 7:48:59 PM EDT

[#21]

How hard is it to hit a target at 500+ yards?

Depends on how big the target is.....

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:03:04 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

It is dropping like a stone and what KD shooting it is used for is completely immaterial.

Considering that the discussion involves the difficulty (or not) of hitting a target at 500 yards, I'd say
KD shooting is hardly immaterial.

Good thing you didn't bother to quote the point you actually made. You know, the one to which I was responding.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:03:54 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No shit it's dropping like a stone.

Gravity is constant.

Not really, since it varies, but that affects BOTH 6.5 and .308 equally.

You seem to be missing a lot of points.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:10:53 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Possibly. I understand the internet fudge factor. You're talking about a paper shaped human target too.

One can quantify what skills need to be used to shoot 500 yards and instruct someone on these skills. No judgement is needed if the distance is known. Velocity changes due to temp, humidity, etc won't matter at 500. Once the rifle is zero'd and someone knows their dope, it's a matter of sight picture and squeezing the trigger. It's really that simple. No human is capable of the same consistency in throwing a football through a tire 50 yards away as a quality rifle and load will be. Less human input, higher accuracy.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:11:31 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Possibly. I understand the internet fudge factor. You're talking about a paper shaped human target too.

So if I told you I am confident of cold bore headshots on an IPSC at 500, would you call me a liar outright or is that just fudge factor?

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:17:09 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Possibly. I understand the internet fudge factor. You're talking about a paper shaped human target too.

So if I told you I am confident of cold bore headshots on an IPSC at 500, would you call me a liar outright or is that just fudge factor?

What will really make people's heads explode, is if they knew that it's possible with certain combat ready ARs in 5.56.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:20:10 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Possibly. I understand the internet fudge factor. You're talking about a paper shaped human target too.

So if I told you I am confident of cold bore headshots on an IPSC at 500, would you call me a liar outright or is that just fudge factor?

What will really make people's heads explode, is if they knew that it's possible with certain combat ready ARs in 5.56.

I was thinking of my .260, but I know a guy...

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:25:34 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's about as difficult as throwing a football in a perfect spiral through a tractor tire at 50 yards, I'd say.

Keep doing anything like your life depended on it and you'll get good as a mother fucker.

I think the football is MUCH harder. With the proper application of fundamentals with quality equipment, a 500 yard shot on a human target is easy.

Possibly. I understand the internet fudge factor. You're talking about a paper shaped human target too.

So if I told you I am confident of cold bore headshots on an IPSC at 500, would you call me a liar outright or is that just fudge factor?

What will really make people's heads explode, is if they knew that it's possible with certain combat ready ARs in 5.56.

I was thinking of my .260, but I know a guy...

With your .260, I absolutely wouldn't be impressed by just a head shot at 500. Now, if you called the quadrant of the head portion you were going to hit, I think that's something impressive.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:30:13 PM EDT

[#29]

longest shot i've taken that mattered was around 800meterish with an m21 sporting a leupold,

it was a hit, but i was aiming centermass, so who knows where.

couldnt tell yo with an ar, but i have made repetitive hits at night with nods out to 300

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:39:19 PM EDT

[#30]

Pretty darned easy. I shoot .308 at 600 a lot.

You adjust your dope accordingly or you can hold off. Windage isn't that hard either but it can be tricky on the cold bore shot. Tests both range estimation and wind estimation. Practice both for static and dynamic shots... the latter is useful for hunting when you have one zero but the animal could be at multiple ranges.

A grand is a little harder for me to shoot at right now. I have to hold off due to running out of elevation on my scope... I need a higher mount. The super high winds in the desert pose a challenge too. Last time I shot that I had to aim about 6 feet high and adjust wind for 14 feet to the left. That papered it but the group was

awful.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:45:46 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
this is where i shoot

Morning fog at thunder valley

<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/tvpv.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5592/tvpv.jpg</a>

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

no fog :)

we spotted a groundhog at the 1 mile target who took allot of incoming artillery fire... but he lived...

<a href="http://min.us/liOJjpO1PHnFl" target="_blank">http://i.minus.com/jiOJjpO1PHnFl.JPG</a>

pics from the shoot

http://min.us/mpcUhTXgT

1760's a mile.

Whenever I get my .338 I'll try for the 1,800 - 2,000yd shots.

The only bitch is the wind in the low desert gusts over 30MPH a lot.

Posted: 10/30/2011 8:55:31 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

Dropping like a stone? What load are you using? 600 yards isn't a problem for an AR or a .308.

The .308 is dropping like a stone when you take other calibers into consideration. The 6.5 flavor of bullets is once that certainly comes to mind.

Agreed. Not that it isn't doable the parabolic arc is just much more defined with the .308WIN.

I need to shoot a box at 500, 600, and 1,000 to show the angles of entry. Some folks would be surprised.

Posted: 10/30/2011 10:17:46 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions.

Are you even serious?

Yeah, I am. I spend enough time at public ranges to know that the average level of skill in shooting is remarkably low. Couple that with the insane claims that are made all the time on the internet and it's not hard to say that most people couldn't make the shot.

"... When I was 19, I did a guy in Laos from a thousand yards out. It was a rifle shot in high
wind. Maybe eight or even ten guys in the world could have made that shot.

It's the only thing I was ever good at. Well, see ya tomorrow. "

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 10/30/2011 10:21:17 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

Dropping like a stone? What load are you using? 600 yards isn't a problem for an AR or a .308.

The .308 is dropping like a stone when you take other calibers into consideration. The 6.5 flavor of bullets is once that certainly comes to mind.

Agreed. Not that it isn't doable the parabolic arc is just much more defined with the .308WIN.

I need to shoot a box at 500, 600, and 1,000 to show the angles of entry. Some folks would be surprised.

Pretty much only the ones that don't understand external ballistics.

Posted: 10/30/2011 10:35:39 PM EDT

[#35]

Shot out to 600 with m16 A4 and M14. The sight post pretty much covers the 20" x 40" e type target at that range so it is hard. And yes the wind will play hell on the shot. On the m16 i used an acog with a 100 meter zero and I could consistently hit targets at 500 with it. Iron sights not so much.

Posted: 10/31/2011 12:27:54 AM EDT

[#36]

Hmmm...I don't know. I've never shot an AR out to that kind of range. Perhaps I'll give it a try this weekend.

I don't think my old eyes are up to it...but I'll try it.

Posted: 10/31/2011 12:37:28 AM EDT

[#37]

don't own a 20" ar but with my 7mm rem mag and luepold 500 is no sweat. gets difficult around 7-800 and around 1000 is where I have the possibility of missing a man sized torso target if it is windy. Wind is a son of a bitch at that kind of range sometimes.If the wind is really bad7-800 can be very difficult even with a good long range gun.

Posted: 10/31/2011 7:18:17 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

don't own a 20" ar but with my 7mm rem mag and luepold 500 is no sweat. gets difficult around 7-800 and around 1000 is where I have the possibility of missing a man sized torso target if it is windy. Wind is a son of a bitch at that kind of range sometimes.If the wind is really bad7-800 can be very difficult even with a good long range gun.

no problems with a 16" also at 500....

even shooting *gasp* 55gr

Posted: 10/31/2011 8:57:58 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The .308 is dropping like a stone when you take other calibers into consideration. The 6.5 flavor of bullets is once that certainly comes to mind.

The drop tends to be between 30 and 40 MOA at 1000 for both. Certainly not "dropping like a stone". It is the Palma cartridge, after all.

It is dropping like a stone and what KD shooting it is used for is completely immaterial.

I wanted to add that I seriously doubt International Palma shooters would turn down the chance to switch to a little better cartridge. There would be the usual argument over tradition and all that, but the initial holdouts would eventually give in to make the job a little easier, if nothing else.

Quoted:
Fine, local gravity is constant.....

nit pickers.....

Someone probably already said this - it ain't a measurable factor in this shooting problem.

Don't make me post a table of variation of gravity with altitude ...

Posted: 10/31/2011 4:44:22 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Good thing you didn't bother to quote the point you actually made. You know, the one to which I was responding.

Palma is a KD 1000 yard match. It's an adequate cartridge for that.

Posted: 10/31/2011 4:48:18 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Good thing you didn't bother to quote the point you actually made. You know, the one to which I was responding.

Palma is a KD 1000 yard match. It's an adequate cartridge for that.

No, it's a required cartridge for that. Most of the Palma shooters I know use something 6 or 6.5mm flavored if they're not practicing for international comps.

Posted: 10/31/2011 4:49:30 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

You seem to be missing a lot of points.

The 6+ mm calibers have an edge in velocity at range over match .308 loads, but to say they are massively inferior ("dropping like a stone") would indicate
a lack of experience shooting at that range with .308 or anything else. YMMV. What do I know... I started Highpower with the M14 and know exactly what it'll do at that range....

A .308 155 Palma load will hold the X at 600. The 6mm+ rounds are a little flatter shooting, but not by much.

Posted: 10/31/2011 4:50:31 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
don't own a 20" ar but with my 7mm rem mag and luepold 500 is no sweat. gets difficult around 7-800 and around 1000 is where I have the possibility of missing a man sized torso target if it is windy. Wind is a son of a bitch at that kind of range sometimes.If the wind is really bad7-800 can be very difficult even with a good long range gun.

no problems with a 16" also at 500....

even shooting *gasp* 55gr

What weight 16" barrel?

Posted: 10/31/2011 4:52:40 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Off hand with iron sights 300 meters. When I served in the Army I was able to hit man sized targets at 400 meters in the prone unsupported position. It was very very difficult to hit anything past 200 meters in a standing unsupported position. Anyway , it all comes down to practice.

Posted: 10/31/2011 4:56:10 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

No, it's a required cartridge for that. Most of the Palma shooters I know use something 6 or 6.5mm flavored if they're not practicing for international comps.

Yes, it's the required cartridge for International Palma. It's not as popular for NRA Long Range, unless you're trying for the Farr Trophy. It isn't an inferior cartridge at only 600 yards. The trends to lighter rounds are as much recoil as higher velocities. At least in Highpower.

Posted: 10/31/2011 5:05:00 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

don't own a 20" ar but with my 7mm rem mag and luepold 500 is no sweat. gets difficult around 7-800 and around 1000 is where I have the possibility of missing a man sized torso target if it is windy. Wind is a son of a bitch at that kind of range sometimes.If the wind is really bad7-800 can be very difficult even with a good long range gun.

no problems with a 16" also at 500....

even shooting *gasp* 55gr

What weight 16" barrel?

M4 profile Colt 1/7

Posted: 10/31/2011 5:14:46 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You seem to be missing a lot of points.

The 6+ mm calibers have an edge in velocity at range over match .308 loads, but to say they are massively inferior ("dropping like a stone") would indicate
a lack of experience shooting at that range with .308 or anything else. YMMV. What do I know... I started Highpower with the M14 and know exactly what it'll do at that range....

A .308 155 Palma load will hold the X at 600. The 6mm+ rounds are a little flatter shooting, but not by much.

Excuse me for a minute...

Ok. Carry on rockstar.

Posted: 10/31/2011 5:17:10 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You seem to be missing a lot of points.

The 6+ mm calibers have an edge in velocity at range over match .308 loads, but to say they are massively inferior ("dropping like a stone") would indicate
a lack of experience shooting at that range with .308 or anything else. YMMV. What do I know... I started Highpower with the M14 and know exactly what it'll do at that range....

A .308 155 Palma load will hold the X at 600. The 6mm+ rounds are a little flatter shooting, but not by much.

Excuse me for a minute...

Ok. Carry on rockstar.

Holy shit, I just noticed that

Posted: 10/31/2011 5:18:52 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You seem to be missing a lot of points.

The 6+ mm calibers have an edge in velocity at range over match .308 loads, but to say they are massively inferior ("dropping like a stone") would indicate

a lack of experience shooting at that range with .308 or anything else. YMMV. What do I know... I started Highpower with the M14 and know exactly what it'll do at that range....

A .308 155 Palma load will hold the X at 600. The 6mm+ rounds are a little flatter shooting, but not by much.

Excuse me for a minute...

Ok. Carry on rockstar.

Holy shit, I just noticed that

Hope Jcs1 has tiny feet, cause they are BOTH going in his mouth!