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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:01:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That has to be mine field central. It reads like a propoganda piece though: "But thanks in large part to their artillery, the attacking Ukrainians actually have been losing fewer people and vehicles than the defending Russians have been losing." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f That has to be mine field central. It reads like a propoganda piece though: "But thanks in large part to their artillery, the attacking Ukrainians actually have been losing fewer people and vehicles than the defending Russians have been losing."  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:10:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryIt’s always the same tired message. I am surprised there are any more Russians to kill. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:12:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolute clown world comment. Who has a greater chance of ruining the life of the everyday American? I will give you a hint; it is not Russia or the FSB. The CIA and the US government have already blown their proverbial load and only a fool or blind man would ignore it. Seditious to point out the threat of our own government? You probably would have supported the Redcoats in 1776. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There are a lot of people here who have said things like: 1. The US is a greater threat than Russia 2. The CIA is the enemy and worse than the FSB 3. Russia is aligned with their domestic enemies 4. They want NATO to lose If that's not actually pro Russian it's at least seditious. Also you would have to be daft to think the FSB hasn't assigned agents to work the largest right wing gun site in America. They have probably been here for a very long time, at least a decade. The FSB would be incompetent not to do that, and they don't strike me as incompetent. Absolute clown world comment. Who has a greater chance of ruining the life of the everyday American? I will give you a hint; it is not Russia or the FSB. The CIA and the US government have already blown their proverbial load and only a fool or blind man would ignore it. Seditious to point out the threat of our own government? You probably would have supported the Redcoats in 1776. So you're against the United States and its defense agencies. Thanks for being so transparent. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:33:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:. Who has a greater chance of ruining the life of the everyday American? I will give you a hint; it is not Russia or the FSB. The CIA and the US government have already blown their proverbial load and only a fool or blind man would ignore it. Seditious to point out the threat of our own government? You probably would have supported the Redcoats in 1776. Brilliant! Yes. There has never been a moment since the founding of our nation where the threat from our own government was not universally recognized as the greatest threat to our Liberty. In fact, we even drafted a Constitution and Bill of Rights to codify this universal truth. That same Constitution ALSO recognizes the need to address foreign threats. We focus on THE FOREIGN THREAT via National Security Strategies. We focus on the domestic threat via the Constitution. The more you know… |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:35:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few. Spending on Ukraine is entitlement spending  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many threads have you started to complain about Entitlement spending? A few. Spending on Ukraine is entitlement spending Spending on Ukraine is killing Russians. If you call that entitlement, I'm all for it. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 9:52:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do in fact support entitlement spending here "because it benefits Americans". Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them. Like a broken record  So we can't sell them to allies instead of giving them away lol? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 9:57:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They absolutely are here and quite a few who buy the narratives and support Russian goals. inevitable? Repeating a myth does not make it true. Russia is on day 576 of the war they declared victory on 574 days ago. That is like Democrats in November of 2016 stating Republicans should stay home since Hillary is going to win in a landslide and sending them invites to the "inevitable" Hillary Clinton inauguration. How is it a lost cause? Ukrainian armor has breached the final part of the Surovikin line. Is that good for Ukraine or bad for Russia? The reality that Russia just lost the entire BSF fleet HQ, their flagship, a dozen other major and minor surface combatants, and a submarine in a land war that was supposed to be over a year ago? How did giving up land in 2014 bring peace? Russia just rebuilt, changed strategies, and waited. https://i.postimg.cc/7LGjVhxh/bucha.webp https://i.postimg.cc/Bvrkw36g/bucha-2.webp You're willing to surrender and get "peace for our time". Some people are not and are willing to fight. Reminder: Russia was pushed out of Kherson, the only Oblast capital they held since the invasion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I haven't see Russian supporters here. They absolutely are here and quite a few who buy the narratives and support Russian goals. Quoted: I've seen people like myself who accept the inevitable Russian victory. inevitable? Repeating a myth does not make it true. Russia is on day 576 of the war they declared victory on 574 days ago. That is like Democrats in November of 2016 stating Republicans should stay home since Hillary is going to win in a landslide and sending them invites to the "inevitable" Hillary Clinton inauguration. Quoted: People who are saying that we should not be supporting a lost cause. How is it a lost cause? Ukrainian armor has breached the final part of the Surovikin line. Is that good for Ukraine or bad for Russia? Quoted: That's not support of Russia, it's just an acceptance of reality. The reality that Russia just lost the entire BSF fleet HQ, their flagship, a dozen other major and minor surface combatants, and a submarine in a land war that was supposed to be over a year ago? Quoted: Old Henry Kissinger (who is as wise as they come in foreign affairs) said in the very beginning that the best solution for Ukraine would be to give up some land to negotiate a peace deal. How did giving up land in 2014 bring peace? Russia just rebuilt, changed strategies, and waited. Quoted: They could have avoided seeing their major cities in rubble..........but they chose wrong and still can't see it. https://i.postimg.cc/7LGjVhxh/bucha.webp https://i.postimg.cc/Bvrkw36g/bucha-2.webp You're willing to surrender and get "peace for our time". Some people are not and are willing to fight. Reminder: Russia was pushed out of Kherson, the only Oblast capital they held since the invasion. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 9:59:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:00:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Repeating propaganda does not make it true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I haven't see Russian supporters here. They absolutely are here and quite a few who buy the narratives and support Russian goals. Quoted: I've seen people like myself who accept the inevitable Russian victory. inevitable? Repeating a myth does not make it true. Russia is on day 576 of the war they declared victory on 574 days ago. That is like Democrats in November of 2016 stating Republicans should stay home since Hillary is going to win in a landslide and sending them invites to the "inevitable" Hillary Clinton inauguration. Quoted: People who are saying that we should not be supporting a lost cause. How is it a lost cause? Ukrainian armor has breached the final part of the Surovikin line. Is that good for Ukraine or bad for Russia? Quoted: That's not support of Russia, it's just an acceptance of reality. The reality that Russia just lost the entire BSF fleet HQ, their flagship, a dozen other major and minor surface combatants, and a submarine in a land war that was supposed to be over a year ago? Quoted: Old Henry Kissinger (who is as wise as they come in foreign affairs) said in the very beginning that the best solution for Ukraine would be to give up some land to negotiate a peace deal. How did giving up land in 2014 bring peace? Russia just rebuilt, changed strategies, and waited. Quoted: They could have avoided seeing their major cities in rubble..........but they chose wrong and still can't see it. https://i.postimg.cc/7LGjVhxh/bucha.webp https://i.postimg.cc/Bvrkw36g/bucha-2.webp You're willing to surrender and get "peace for our time". Some people are not and are willing to fight. Reminder: Russia was pushed out of Kherson, the only Oblast capital they held since the invasion. Tell us more about how the ships destroyed in Sevastopol were barely damaged… 
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:01:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard all the tears and squealing and had to come see what the ruckus was, lol. You run along back to your safe space echo chamber thread. The adults are talking. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:04:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It's not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hbhHXWEAAQ4TO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hdZIcXoAA2YnE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6heYW0WcAArb8K?format=jpg&name=large
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It's not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hbhHXWEAAQ4TO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hdZIcXoAA2YnE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6heYW0WcAArb8K?format=jpg&name=large
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:05:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, at least it's consistent, two weeks ago I posted that we're a couple weeks off from the latest amplification of Ukrainian Breakout . There is a major problem associated with consistently taking both weak evidence combined with weak gains and setting unrealistic conditions and expectations over and over, none of which have panned out so far. And yes, your maps and tweets are extremely weak, unsubstantiated products arranged together en masse to insinuate importance and validity. Its simply following the established trend since the beginning of the summer that is negatively impacting third party opinion and perception. The problem is this has occurred a dozen times already. If you are truly interested in supporting the Ukrainian conflict you guys would stop perpetuating this model as it has had tangible negative effects and can be directly correlated to the "support fatigue" Ukraine's benefactors are experiencing now. It's literally becoming a case study on how not to successfully conduct IO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It's not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hbhHXWEAAQ4TO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hdZIcXoAA2YnE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6heYW0WcAArb8K?format=jpg&name=large
Well, at least it's consistent, two weeks ago I posted that we're a couple weeks off from the latest amplification of Ukrainian Breakout . There is a major problem associated with consistently taking both weak evidence combined with weak gains and setting unrealistic conditions and expectations over and over, none of which have panned out so far. And yes, your maps and tweets are extremely weak, unsubstantiated products arranged together en masse to insinuate importance and validity. Its simply following the established trend since the beginning of the summer that is negatively impacting third party opinion and perception. The problem is this has occurred a dozen times already. If you are truly interested in supporting the Ukrainian conflict you guys would stop perpetuating this model as it has had tangible negative effects and can be directly correlated to the "support fatigue" Ukraine's benefactors are experiencing now. It's literally becoming a case study on how not to successfully conduct IO.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:07:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zero fucks given either way And imagine the unthinkable??? The fucking pukes can't beat the other commies no matter how much free American ammo they fire at them... |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:13:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: that is were you are wrong, of course in our eyes it is not worth it. To Ukraine who is willing to die to the last man to gain back its rightful sovereignty it is well worth it. who are we to say otherwise? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. that is were you are wrong, of course in our eyes it is not worth it. To Ukraine who is willing to die to the last man to gain back its rightful sovereignty it is well worth it. who are we to say otherwise? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:17:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And If he looks at the ISW map it's pretty obvious Russia is moving to attempt to envelope them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f And therefore it's the Russians who will currently be taking heavy casualties |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:17:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your model has you seeing “IO” during a worldwide event that millions of people are watching online. It’s entirely possible that’s just news in social media, and a cigar is just a cigar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Your model has you seeing “IO” during a worldwide event that millions of people are watching online. It’s entirely possible that’s just news in social media, and a cigar is just a cigar. Yes, even though Ukraine has been very overt in it's declarations that all output will be run through their IO planners. They even declared a social media blackout related to the offensive, but somehow positive news specifically related to a breakout just happens to squeak through every couple weeks. I see you guys lamenting about the blackout all the time, then all of a sudden "oh look, good news! What luck!" This is why you lack a significant level of understanding of what you are seeing. It's amateur hour over there and you are just the amateur they are looking for. Quoted: And If he looks at the ISW map it's pretty obvious Russia is moving to attempt to envelope them. Salients are bad for Russia and good for Ukraine. Quoted: Posted: 8/24/2023 9:05:54 AM EDT Hearing about the great Ukrainian breakout™ being amplified every three weeks without result does more to create apathy than hope. Damn, I was real close. Missed it by 3 days. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:24:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, let me first say I am definitely not a ukebro, I hate that we fund this war and I think its costly and needless for both sides. But, let me ask this: the article posits what if Russia is becoming stronger from this war and then, what action should the US take if the goal is to weaken Russia? I don't think you could back down from continuing the war then if that is still your goal. If you have awakened a Russian sleeping bear if you will, then it is still awake now. Whatever increased mobilization and production capacity would be wisely continued by Russia even into peacetime, as they learned their military previously was not up to the task. So even if we end the war, its very likely they'd continue to produce as much war materiel and strengthen their army regardless. It would stand to reason then, that yes even if they get stronger through the war, you have to continue the war because without it, they'd be getting even that much more stronger. That's my reasoning at least, again I think the whole thing is stupid and Russia would better serve as as an ally against China than an enemy. I think at some point Ukraine will run out of Ukrainians. There won't be enough fit men because of attrition and their outward immigration has seen millions leave since the fall of communism. At some point, they just won't have the numbers to keep fighting and will be overrun. It would be nice foe this war to end because knowing all those soldiers are dying for two men's prides is disgusting. Ukraine was always on the losing side. It would be like Canada vs US militarily. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:32:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think at some point Ukraine will run out of Ukrainians. There won't be enough fit men because of attrition and their outward immigration has seen millions leave since the fall of communism. At some point, they just won't have the numbers to keep fighting and will be overrun. It would be nice foe this war to end because knowing all those soldiers are dying for two men's prides is disgusting. Ukraine was always on the losing side. It would be like Canada vs US militarily. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok, let me first say I am definitely not a ukebro, I hate that we fund this war and I think its costly and needless for both sides. But, let me ask this: the article posits what if Russia is becoming stronger from this war and then, what action should the US take if the goal is to weaken Russia? I don't think you could back down from continuing the war then if that is still your goal. If you have awakened a Russian sleeping bear if you will, then it is still awake now. Whatever increased mobilization and production capacity would be wisely continued by Russia even into peacetime, as they learned their military previously was not up to the task. So even if we end the war, its very likely they'd continue to produce as much war materiel and strengthen their army regardless. It would stand to reason then, that yes even if they get stronger through the war, you have to continue the war because without it, they'd be getting even that much more stronger. That's my reasoning at least, again I think the whole thing is stupid and Russia would better serve as as an ally against China than an enemy. I think at some point Ukraine will run out of Ukrainians. There won't be enough fit men because of attrition and their outward immigration has seen millions leave since the fall of communism. At some point, they just won't have the numbers to keep fighting and will be overrun. It would be nice foe this war to end because knowing all those soldiers are dying for two men's prides is disgusting. Ukraine was always on the losing side. It would be like Canada vs US militarily. The Ukrainians have about 7 million available men (not counting the elderly and those who are out of the country). |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:36:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Ukrainians have about 7 million available men (not counting the elderly and those who are out of the country). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ok, let me first say I am definitely not a ukebro, I hate that we fund this war and I think its costly and needless for both sides. But, let me ask this: the article posits what if Russia is becoming stronger from this war and then, what action should the US take if the goal is to weaken Russia? I don't think you could back down from continuing the war then if that is still your goal. If you have awakened a Russian sleeping bear if you will, then it is still awake now. Whatever increased mobilization and production capacity would be wisely continued by Russia even into peacetime, as they learned their military previously was not up to the task. So even if we end the war, its very likely they'd continue to produce as much war materiel and strengthen their army regardless. It would stand to reason then, that yes even if they get stronger through the war, you have to continue the war because without it, they'd be getting even that much more stronger. That's my reasoning at least, again I think the whole thing is stupid and Russia would better serve as as an ally against China than an enemy. I think at some point Ukraine will run out of Ukrainians. There won't be enough fit men because of attrition and their outward immigration has seen millions leave since the fall of communism. At some point, they just won't have the numbers to keep fighting and will be overrun. It would be nice foe this war to end because knowing all those soldiers are dying for two men's prides is disgusting. Ukraine was always on the losing side. It would be like Canada vs US militarily. The Ukrainians have about 7 million available men (not counting the elderly and those who are out of the country). |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:38:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The checkbook Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. that is were you are wrong, of course in our eyes it is not worth it. To Ukraine who is willing to die to the last man to gain back its rightful sovereignty it is well worth it. who are we to say otherwise? There is broad bipartisan support for hobbling Russia |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:39:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, even though Ukraine has been very overt in it's declarations that all output will be run through their IO planners. They even recently declared a social media blackout related to the offensive, but somehow positive news specifically related to a breakout just happens to squeak through every couple weeks I see you guys lamenting about the blackout all the time, then all of a sudden "oh look, good news!" What luck! This is why you lack a significant level of understanding of what you are seeing. It's amateur hour over there and you are just the amateur they are looking for. Salients are bad for Russia and good for Ukraine. Damn, I was real close. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your model has you seeing "IO" during a worldwide event that millions of people are watching online. It's entirely possible that's just news in social media, and a cigar is just a cigar. Yes, even though Ukraine has been very overt in it's declarations that all output will be run through their IO planners. They even recently declared a social media blackout related to the offensive, but somehow positive news specifically related to a breakout just happens to squeak through every couple weeks I see you guys lamenting about the blackout all the time, then all of a sudden "oh look, good news!" What luck! This is why you lack a significant level of understanding of what you are seeing. It's amateur hour over there and you are just the amateur they are looking for. Quoted: And If he looks at the ISW map it's pretty obvious Russia is moving to attempt to envelope them. Salients are bad for Russia and good for Ukraine. Quoted: Posted: 8/24/2023 9:05:54 AM EDT Hearing about the great Ukrainian breakout being amplified every three weeks without result does more to create apathy than hope. Damn, I was real close. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:47:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is broad bipartisan support for hobbling Russia Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. that is were you are wrong, of course in our eyes it is not worth it. To Ukraine who is willing to die to the last man to gain back its rightful sovereignty it is well worth it. who are we to say otherwise? There is broad bipartisan support for hobbling Russia Nope: “Senator Rand Paul single-handedly blocked the passage of a new aid package to Ukraine worth around $40 billion on Thursday, as he insisted an inspector general oversee U.S. spending in the country as it fights a Russian invasion. The Kentucky Republican said that Ukraine could not be saved by "dooming the U.S. economy" and cited high gas prices, food prices and inflation generally during remarks on the Senate floor.” https://www.newsweek.com/rand-paul-explains-why-single-handedly-blocked-40bn-ukraine-aid-russia-senate-1706288 |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:37:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Shadow missile strike on Russian Naval Headquarters in Crimea
 Missile Strikes Russian Naval Headquarters in Crimea | VOA News |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:08:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you look at your map, the yellow is new ground the Russians have taken. They are moving to surround the Ukr. Quote HistoryQuoted: If you look at your map, the yellow is new ground the Russians have taken. They are moving to surround the Ukr. The Russians don't have the forces capable of doing that. I remember numerous other pro-Russians claiming there was an encirclement in the east in the early days but it never materialized. How is Russia, with the severely degraded troops there now, going to perform one? Quoted: And If he looks at the ISW map it's pretty obvious Russia is moving to attempt to envelope them. They don't have the forces capable of doing that. Or stopping missiles from hitting their fleet HQ and one of their tier one submarines. Do you agree? Quoted: Uke bros cheering on Battle of the Bulge. In the Battle of the Bulge the good guys won. The good guys are winning here too. They successfully managed to penetrate the "surovikin" lines and are probably working on widening the breach so heavier forces can follow on. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:13:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shadow missile strike on Russian Naval Headquarters in Crimea  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBMzdlYqNfUImpossible, those were made to hit underwater mountains so it'll be okay
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:24:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL Are you implying that Poland wasn't destroyed or wouldn't have been destroyed by Germany in 1939 if they had rolled over? Poland and Ukraine are similar in that they are being invaded for no reason by a genocidal neighbor. The fact that Germany in 1939 was more competent than Russia in 2023 doesn't change that fact. Which is it? Destroyed or wouldn't have been destroyed? Poland surrendered in less than one month and as a result was not reduced to rubble. Ukraine is still fighting a hopeless war that began over a year and a half ago..........and as a result Ukraine is being reduced to rubble. You say "invaded for no reason." Wrong. There's always a reason, often several. Your statements are incoherent and your comparisons are invalid and your claims are not factual. I don't see much point in responding to your level of communication |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:32:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Poland did fight back. But they were invaded by Germany on September 1st 1939 and by the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union on September 17th 1939. They were destroyed by October 6th and divided up by the two countries. Yes. Poland was smart enough to know that surrender was the only intelligent decision. Ukraine has shown no such intelligence.........only stubborn and arrogant stupidity. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:36:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is it? Destroyed or wouldn't have been destroyed? Poland surrendered in less than one month and as a result was not reduced to rubble. Ukraine is still fighting a hopeless war that began over a year and a half ago..........and as a result Ukraine is being reduced to rubble. You say "invaded for no reason." Wrong. There's always a reason, often several. Your statements are incoherent and your comparisons are invalid and your claims are not factual. I don't see much point in responding to your level of communication Surrendering worked out real well for them  . At least there buildings survived tho right
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:40:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Poland was smart enough to know that surrender was the only intelligent decision. Ukraine has shown no such intelligence.........only stubborn and arrogant stupidity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Poland did fight back. But they were invaded by Germany on September 1st 1939 and by the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union on September 17th 1939. They were destroyed by October 6th and divided up by the two countries. Yes. Poland was smart enough to know that surrender was the only intelligent decision. Ukraine has shown no such intelligence.........only stubborn and arrogant stupidity. And millions were murdered.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:40:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So we're a British problem? https://uccmanitoba.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/69752949_2455543721206832_4136087569433624576_n.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6aJEqNaUAEUDL2?format=webp&name=small This is a country that only knows how to deal with problems through violence and manipulation like a dysfunctional methbilly. If they get Ukraine's resources and geography they will be more of a problem for the entire world, not less. From 21Feb22 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMHsnnwX0AIgblM?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMHsnnzXMAIAdDV?format=png&name=900x900
Your info comes from pro-Ukraine propaganda sources.........whether true, false, exaggerated or correct we cannot be certain. However, it makes not one bit of difference. Whatever the reasons for the war--Ukraine is fighting a war they cannot win. That hopeless war is costing American taxpayers over a hundred billion dollars so far. The war corporations are getting rich and we're getting poorer. And you support this shit show? Doesn't make sense. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:43:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And millions were murdered. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:43:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And millions were murdered. And many millions were saved. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:45:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why aren't they fighting? Surely 7 million would be enough to push the Russians out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ok, let me first say I am definitely not a ukebro, I hate that we fund this war and I think its costly and needless for both sides. But, let me ask this: the article posits what if Russia is becoming stronger from this war and then, what action should the US take if the goal is to weaken Russia? I don't think you could back down from continuing the war then if that is still your goal. If you have awakened a Russian sleeping bear if you will, then it is still awake now. Whatever increased mobilization and production capacity would be wisely continued by Russia even into peacetime, as they learned their military previously was not up to the task. So even if we end the war, its very likely they'd continue to produce as much war materiel and strengthen their army regardless. It would stand to reason then, that yes even if they get stronger through the war, you have to continue the war because without it, they'd be getting even that much more stronger. That's my reasoning at least, again I think the whole thing is stupid and Russia would better serve as as an ally against China than an enemy. I think at some point Ukraine will run out of Ukrainians. There won't be enough fit men because of attrition and their outward immigration has seen millions leave since the fall of communism. At some point, they just won't have the numbers to keep fighting and will be overrun. It would be nice foe this war to end because knowing all those soldiers are dying for two men's prides is disgusting. Ukraine was always on the losing side. It would be like Canada vs US militarily. The Ukrainians have about 7 million available men (not counting the elderly and those who are out of the country). 
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:51:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia is on day 576 of the war they declared victory on 574 days ago. I have not seen any such declaration of victory. Can you provide a citation to back up your claim? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:52:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Repeating propaganda does not make it true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Repeating propaganda does not make it true. Like saying the Minsk is just damaged and not destroyed and the Rostov wasn't hit?  Quoted: So we can't sell them to allies instead of giving them away lol? Could, but who is buying? Ukraine doesn't have the ability to purchase them. Difference is the USA actually captured Saddam and took all of Iraq. Has Russia captured Zelenskyy and taken all of Ukraine? @the_narrator |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pax Americana is benevolent might makes right. And the alternative is...? Go on, how does the alternative affect us and our allies? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:56:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CNN is all aflutter today about the Zylensky visit. He looks tired and beaten down. Reality is biting him. Seems to me that Biden's words of support are just words. The end of aid to Ukraine is a foregone conclusion, not just in the U.S., but worldwide. It can only be pushed so far and the end is in sight. This is a RUSSIAN problem. They are dealing with a recalcitrant and troublesome neighbor that was historically part of Russia and contains many ethnic Russians who have been oppressed. The only logical conclusion is to let Russia deal with her own problem. It is FAR outside of our hegemony. The sooner Ukraine is pacified (and grain is flowing to the world again) the better. Biden has enjoyed the distraction from American domestic problems..........but it's time to get back to reality. Bold is BS. Russian speakers in Ukraine wanted to remain under Kyiv by wide margins before the Donbas invasion, and since 2022 that support has only gone up. People are expanding their use of Ukrainian language to avoid being like the invaders. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 1:56:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not seen any such declaration of victory. Can you provide a citation to back up your claim? "Ukraine has returned to Russia" The internet archives captured it, however  Petr Akopov is a Russian propagandist working for RIA Novosti, a Russian state-owned news agency. Akapov was the author of the prematurely published and then retracted article titled "The arrival/attack of Russia and the new world" ("??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ????"), which was written in advance anticipating the Russian victory in the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. In the ominous article, Akapov announced that "Ukraine has returned to Russia" and condemned "Anglo-Saxons who rule the West" for "attempting to steal Russian land", and asserted that Russian President Vladimir Putin's launch of the invasion resolved the "Ukrainian question" to establish a "new world order" with "Russia, Belarus and Ukraine".[1][2] Before the news agency retracted the article, it was republished by another Russian state-owned news agency Sputnik and published by the Pakistani newspaper The Frontier Post in English.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Akopov They had to retract it because nobody in Ukraine wanted to be "liberated" by Russia. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 2:04:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That example is about the dumbest thing I've read on here in a long time, and there's a lot of dumb shit on here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And millions were murdered. Only 20 something % of the population. Minor damage. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 2:06:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large Others disagree with you, @Jlaudio When you repeatedly engage a known troll and BSer, you are part of the problem. Nothing he's posted is even intelligent or true enough to engage with. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 2:45:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like saying the Minsk is just damaged and not destroyed and the Rostov wasn't hit? Could, but who is buying? Ukraine doesn't have the ability to purchase them. Difference is the USA actually captured Saddam and took all of Iraq. Has Russia captured Zelenskyy and taken all of Ukraine? @the_narrator Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Repeating propaganda does not make it true. Like saying the Minsk is just damaged and not destroyed and the Rostov wasn't hit? Quoted: So we can't sell them to allies instead of giving them away lol? Could, but who is buying? Ukraine doesn't have the ability to purchase them. Difference is the USA actually captured Saddam and took all of Iraq. Has Russia captured Zelenskyy and taken all of Ukraine? @the_narrator you’re right, we had levied peace unto iraq. 2007 wasn’t part of cannon then, 3000 additional americans didn’t die. isis hadn’t yet been created. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 2:49:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, even though Ukraine has been very overt in it's declarations that all output will be run through their IO planners. They even declared a social media blackout related to the offensive, but somehow positive news specifically related to a breakout just happens to squeak through every couple weeks. I see you guys lamenting about the blackout all the time, then all of a sudden "oh look, good news! What luck!" This is why you lack a significant level of understanding of what you are seeing. It's amateur hour over there and you are just the amateur they are looking for. Yeah, I know some of you guys are readers of the big thread, no matter the shit you talk. The last time someone said it was slow in there was two days ago. You know what I thought? “The FUCK it is”. Kinda pissed me off a little. There’s always information coming out, more than I can possible post. But instead, most people want to read two headlines and figure they’ve got a good bead on it. Here are some examples from today, that, by the way, have nothing to do with the counteroffensive. Sevastopol completely unprepared to get hit back Regional channels in Sevastopol are filled with video cameras of people unable to get into shelters, or with shelters in poor condition. Now local authorities will clearly take care of this. It’s high time to focus the efforts of the entire society and government on Victory, and not on depicting the careless reality of peacetime Two majors https://t.me/dva_majors/26116 HIMARS still killing it Taking into account recent events, I propose that the army command still think about creating special forces, whose sole task will be to hunt for the Khaymars. It’s not for me to tell you exactly how to do this, but in my humble opinion, it is necessary to allocate a separate operational group, create a single center for processing intelligence information on the Khimars. Subordinate the resources of long-range artillery and MLRS, aviation to this special group, give a team of lancelets, form several special groups of drg for physical work behind zero. Through refugee channels through relatives serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, announce a reward of 10k euros for accurate data on the locations of these MLRS, teams and warehouses serving them. For returning the car with the expectation of announcing a reward of 1M euros, with new passports and state protection. We need to start working complexly and subtly; Himari is causing too significant losses. ZHIVOVZ https://t.me/zhivoff/10982 These might be a dupe for you, as you’re apparently an avid reader of the big thread, but apparently I’m not really posting this for you anyway. And yet the symbols work. As if I’m not saying anything new, here it’s more likely that I just need to speak out. The attack on Sevastopol did not show anything from a military point of view that we did not know. Did we know that the red lines were reliably protected from defeat by the enemy? Yes, we knew. What about the fact that the enemy intends to escalate strikes? They knew. Did they understand that if the enemy stubbornly hammers missiles at the same point, then sooner or later the statistics will give their results? You can continue for a long time. Nothing unexpected for the mind, but the psychological blow turned out to be severe. We can understand the inevitable with our heads, but accept and come to terms with our hearts - this is more difficult. I don’t know if I’m ready to realize that it’s time to get used to such an understanding. But the trouble with symbolism is not that it has hit us now, but that this symbolism is spreading far beyond the borders of Russia. And this is one of the reasons why we are actually left without allies at a time when we really need real allies. Not those who agree to hang out in St. Petersburg, get old debts written off and collect new ones, not those who want to buy our resources for candy wrappers and at crazy discounts, but those who are ready to stand shoulder to shoulder with us, ignoring sanctions, putting their troops in same formation with ours, etc. Just a bit of symbolism in the examples: Dogs are used to hunt bears, their purpose is usually to drive away or tire out the bear rather than directly fight it. Dogs often chase a bear, causing it to become tired, stop, and eventually leave its normal territory. Doesn't remind you of anything? All that keeps us afloat now is our spirit. We do not allow ourselves to be broken, but this is already too little. The enemy’s tactics are not a secret: they are trying to destroy our logistics and headquarters, break communications and nullify control. This is not a frontal battle (it’s time to forget about those, they are in the past), where we are able to compete with anyone. This is a classic war of attrition, in which the rules are imposed not by us, but by us. And, probably, this is our first war in history when the warring Russia does not create symbols, does not form new meanings. We copy the symbols of the Second World War, because then these symbols were created, and did not try to copy the meanings of the war with Napoleon. Today, for the first time in our history, we are losing the war of meanings and symbols. Forgive me, but Latin letters without a clear explanation are not the symbols that would be enough for us. When starting a war for the revival of one’s empire, presenting it as the flagship of the anti-colonial movement (i.e., the war of the colonies with the mother country for their independence) is very witty and original, but this is not enough. All. I spoke out. This makes your soul feel lighter. It's time to go back to the ass of reality. https://t.me/shouvalov/110 The problems of the SVO were a consequence of the enormous scale of mistakes made in the previous period, but especially in 2014. In the distant future, 2014 will be called the time of the “golden generation of Russians,” the time of the greatest opportunities and the most terrible mistakes. Everyone remembers how out of the blue the country received tens and hundreds of thousands of the same ideological people who at one time developed virgin lands, built the Baikal-Amur Mainline and generally created the history of the USSR out of pure enthusiasm. But in 2014, most of these people stumbled upon the barrier of state power, and this barrier methodically and stubbornly ground them into dust. But the military aspect interests me much more, because we laid the foundations of our current position at the front then. For the recruits, Donbass became a testing ground for the practical testing of our military special forces: the elite of key special forces had the opportunity to show their skills there. As a result, we sent there those who got into training through a sieve of the strictest selection, who spent years continuously learning their craft. The idea was clear: our specialists had to test their skills on enemy infantry. But what was the reality: elite special forces, instead of core functions, often switched to combat operations, like ordinary infantry. There were fewer of our specialists, but the emphasis was on quality. But an elite special forces soldier, who has been trained for years for something like this, may not gain much new experience at all, while his loss nullifies many years of preparation. And numerous enemy forces from ordinary infantry (where the majority had no experience of military service before) could gain a lot of invaluable experience from such skirmishes. As a result, our specialists became kind of instructors for the enemy army, and since 2014, the enemy has massively trained its military to the level of special forces, and we have wasted the most valuable fighters who were literally trained individually years earlier. From the point of view of military potential, we were losing, while the enemy was providing the strongest qualitative growth at our expense. I’ll try to translate this into mathematics: let’s say we have 1 special forces officer with a training level of, say, 95%. And against him quantitatively - 100 enemy fighters, whose level of conditional training is 5%. Our fighter can gain 2-3% of his strength, while 100 enemy fighters can easily gain 30-40%. Those at the start we had 95 units. potential, it will be - let it be 98 units. The enemy had 500 units, but will have at least 3500 units. With the loss of each such fighter, we go into the minus, and the enemy, with his losses, goes into the plus in his overall military potential. This is a rough but illustrative example. The main thing is different: before February 24, 2022, we forged the enemy’s army with our own hands, while losing more valuable specialists than we were able to prepare. Yes, before the start of the Northern Military District, for years we had been training more widespread specialists in the airborne forces, special forces and other equally important specialized specialties, but a political miscalculation led to the fact that the main best forces were lost without fighting. But the starting point for fatal mistakes is 2014, because it was then that we not only failed to take advantage of the unprecedented national upsurge - we managed to turn it against our development. It is clear that in the end everyone is poisoned by the unfortunate oatmeal cookie, but why was it necessary to swallow so much turpentine in front of it? Therefore, we seem to even at times successfully clean up current operational pro... errors. But this is the position of a sperm that manages to dodge the next piece of crap and rushes on, ignoring the fact that the main mistake for him was made without his participation and much earlier. Well, there are simply no other comparisons. We won't get away with cosmetic changes. And I have no idea if I have the time, strength and desire. It’s just that in our case, the fertilization of the dream will not happen. Basic conditions do not allow it. And you, of course, can continue to dream about your beauty, but if you don’t radically change everything, then the cheerful adventures of our sperm will soon end, despite all its possible local maneuvers and successes. https://t.me/shouvalov/111 All Russian sources. All with potentially useful information. Right now a YouTuber can pay out of pocket to task a satellite and get current images of anyplace in the world, and imagery gets sent right from the front lines. You want to tell me that I’m supposed to just ignore all of that because you say it’s all IO? Clown shoes, dude. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 2:51:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your info comes from pro-Ukraine propaganda sources.........whether true, false, exaggerated or correct we cannot be certain. However, it makes not one bit of difference. Whatever the reasons for the war--Ukraine is fighting a war they cannot win. That hopeless war is costing American taxpayers over a hundred billion dollars so far. The war corporations are getting rich and we're getting poorer. And you support this shit show? Doesn't make sense. Videos from Russian TV are Ukrainian sources? ?? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 2:57:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians don't have the forces capable of doing that. I remember numerous other pro-Russians claiming there was an encirclement in the east in the early days but it never materialized. How is Russia, with the severely degraded troops there now, going to perform one? They don't have the forces capable of doing that. Or stopping missiles from hitting their fleet HQ and one of their tier one submarines. Do you agree? In the Battle of the Bulge the good guys won. The good guys are winning here too. They successfully managed to penetrate the "surovikin" lines and are probably working on widening the breach so heavier forces can follow on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you look at your map, the yellow is new ground the Russians have taken. They are moving to surround the Ukr. The Russians don't have the forces capable of doing that. I remember numerous other pro-Russians claiming there was an encirclement in the east in the early days but it never materialized. How is Russia, with the severely degraded troops there now, going to perform one? Quoted: And If he looks at the ISW map it's pretty obvious Russia is moving to attempt to envelope them. They don't have the forces capable of doing that. Or stopping missiles from hitting their fleet HQ and one of their tier one submarines. Do you agree? Quoted: Uke bros cheering on Battle of the Bulge. In the Battle of the Bulge the good guys won. The good guys are winning here too. They successfully managed to penetrate the "surovikin" lines and are probably working on widening the breach so heavier forces can follow on.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 3:00:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Remember yall heard it here first, courtesy of failed Ukrainian IO.
Russia won the conflict in Ukraine, but the White House and the American media are lying about it, American journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner Seymour Hersh said on a page on the Substack platform. https://t.me/rsotmdivision/10693 |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 3:01:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again if they have that many, why aren't they fighting? Surely even 20% of that number would push the Russians out |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 3:01:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not seen any such declaration of victory. Can you provide a citation to back up your claim? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russia is on day 576 of the war they declared victory on 574 days ago. I have not seen any such declaration of victory. Can you provide a citation to back up your claim? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 3:03:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you didn't say "The Ukrainians have about 7 million available men (not counting the elderly and those who are out of the country)." ? Again if they have that many, why aren't they fighting? Surely even 20% of that number would push the Russians out Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again if they have that many, why aren't they fighting? Surely even 20% of that number would push the Russians out You’re not joking? I thought you were joking. I apologize for laughing. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 3:07:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're against the United States and its defense agencies. Thanks for being so transparent. It's actually pretty easy to be for one but not the other. Do you really think Gen Milley or Gen Clapper are for the United States? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 3:07:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the alternative is...? Go on, how does the alternative affect us and our allies? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pax Americana is benevolent might makes right. And the alternative is...? Go on, how does the alternative affect us and our allies? What? You must be seriously confused, if you think anything I've said is either not in support of "Pax Americana" or that I was proposing an alternative to it. You're the one lamenting about living in a world where "everything is reduced to might makes right and those who can, do" and the various evils associated with it. Meanwhile, the US uses it's might to push it's interests around the world. NATO is "might makes right" Selling arms to Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Poland is "might makes right" Shipping arms to Ukraine is "might makes right" The US military and the various intel agencies and those capabilities around the world is "might makes right" For whatever reason, some people and this may include you, seem to think that just because the US is not invading our neighbors or threatening the world with nuclear fire, that the lack of those actions is something more than just window dressing on "might makes right". Like I said, benevolent. |
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