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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:43:04 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country...  A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:43:12 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Follow on questions: Who did the US commit genocide against? Who did the US threaten to nuke? What country did the US deliberately target civilian centers of? For the first question you may say something like the Native Americans, to which I would answer that it was a dark point in our history and not something to be proud of. To the second, you might say Japan I guess, but I hope you understand the difference (pls don't make me explain it) To the third you may point out WWII which was a time before precision munitions, and against an aggressor nation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you know how Russia could keep their forces safe from NATO tracking and Javelins handed out to Ukraine? By staying in their own fucking country. Hypocrisy and double standards much? Who is the US trying to annex? Follow on questions: Who did the US commit genocide against? Who did the US threaten to nuke? What country did the US deliberately target civilian centers of? For the first question you may say something like the Native Americans, to which I would answer that it was a dark point in our history and not something to be proud of. To the second, you might say Japan I guess, but I hope you understand the difference (pls don't make me explain it) To the third you may point out WWII which was a time before precision munitions, and against an aggressor nation. 1 debatable 2 China , Vietnam (debatable) 3 Vietnam |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:44:57 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our actions directly lead to the death of more than a million people in the Middle East since 9/11. There is no moral authority here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who is the US trying to annex? How many countries has the US invaded in the last 50 years? None that were comparable to what Russia is doing right now, despite the fact that many of those wars shouldn't have happened. Why are you trying to excuse Russian behavior by pointing out (less) bad behavior by the US? Our actions directly lead to the death of more than a million people in the Middle East since 9/11. There is no moral authority here. And how did all that start? Oh yeah a dickhead attacking his neighbors. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:46:04 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Ukraine never had a chance at democracy, their parliament was all shot up with corruption from the get go and waffled back and forth for more than two decades. The EU and NATO carrots were also dangled and pulled away multiple times. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:46:55 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine never had a chance at democracy, their parliament was all shot up with corruption from the get go and waffled back and forth for more than two decades. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Ukraine never had a chance at democracy, their parliament was all shot up with corruption from the get go and waffled back and forth for more than two decades. That describes the Western World. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:47:32 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:48:39 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine never had a chance at democracy, their parliament was all shot up with corruption from the get go and waffled back and forth for more than two decades. The EU and NATO carrots were also dangled and pulled away multiple times. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Ukraine never had a chance at democracy, their parliament was all shot up with corruption from the get go and waffled back and forth for more than two decades. The EU and NATO carrots were also dangled and pulled away multiple times. They have more of a democracy than Russia, and Zelensky was elected. Our own congress is chock full of corruption too, I'm not sure how it plays into an unjustified invasion. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:49:49 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That describes the Western World. In the Eastern sphere? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:51:12 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's more than that, as already explained. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:52:48 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Add emotion to the equation. #Problemsolved |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:54:14 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the Eastern sphere? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That describes the Western World. In the Eastern sphere? East? My map says Ukraine's in Europe. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:54:16 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Sure. When the Hutu's started murdering the Tutsis (or was it the other way around), did anyone ever think, "Uh oh, this could lead to World War III and a nuclear holocaust"? No. When Putin started building his Invasion Force on the Ukrainian border, that conversation about potential escalation to the point of Nuclear War began on both sides. Putin threatened Nuclear War in no uncertain terms. Putin's mouthpieces then began accusing anyone who advocated arming Ukrainians of "trying to start a nuclear war, or WWIII" |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:55:43 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. When the Hutu's started murdering the Tutsis (or was it the other way around), did anyone ever think, "Uh oh, this could lead to World War III and a nuclear holocaust"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Sure. When the Hutu's started murdering the Tutsis (or was it the other way around), did anyone ever think, "Uh oh, this could lead to World War III and a nuclear holocaust"? I'm not asking you. I'm asking Roland |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:58:09 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Putin has stated that the ultimate goal is to regain former soviet countries, it would NOT have ended with Ukraine if he had an easy victory there- which is what we all expected. He's stated that Ukraine has no right to exist, and that Ukrainians are in fact Russians, and if they disagree they're Nazis, and if they're Nazis they need to be denazified (killed). This right here makes the situation SIGNIFICANTLY different that a civil war within a 3rd world country- as terrible as that is. In that case we arm one side and they genocide the other because both sides are animals. In this case we provide means for civilized people to defend themselves and retain their right to self determine their future. Not the same situation at all. Even without the genocide I'd still support arming Ukraine, but that's really the icing on the cake. Russia is acting like barbarians, we don't simply have to stand and watch. We can give the underdog a big stick and point them in the direction of the bully....then watch. Add on top of that stuff Putin's CONTINUAL invasions, saber rattling, etc- both concerning nukes and conventional war, it's very obvious that the smart thing to do is let Ukraine fight to take Russian down a few notches. The ENTIRE world would be better off without Russia destabilizing it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:58:12 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not asking you. I'm asking Roland Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Sure. When the Hutu's started murdering the Tutsis (or was it the other way around), did anyone ever think, "Uh oh, this could lead to World War III and a nuclear holocaust"? I'm not asking you. I'm asking Roland I don't care. 
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:58:52 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Add emotion to the equation. #Problemsolved Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Add emotion to the equation. #Problemsolved More non arguments. Show me where I've been emotional. In fact, you seem to be the emotional one as you ignore all the logical arguments provided here. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:58:53 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. Ukraine is a corrupt quasi oligarchy that laundered money for US political groups and foreign powers. It is one of the most corrupt places on earth. This has not changed from then to now. Not once, has anyone in this thread identified a US National Interest in us fighting Russia for Ukraine. My standard is as stated above- Tell the guy working at McDonalds, why US tax money and manpower should go to Ukraine and not to anywhere else on the planet including domestic spending. Explain how that guy's taxes should be spent in Ukraine and exactly what will happen to him if we don't do it. Nothing...his life will not change by us staying home. We can feel bad about someone's country being invaded without that meaning we have to jump into the middle of the conflict. Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Yeah, the US democratically elected someone too...keep believing that. You want to get your war boner wet. Go get some. Stop pretending it is moral or justified and do it on your own time, not by proxy of US taxpayers and armed forces. There are no good guys in this fight. None. Stop trying to make it look like a john wayne movie and accept the reality that is is just two corrupt states fighting one another. PS. Nations don't have morality. They have national interests and what is best for their own citizens...is their national interest. There is zero upside for the US to be involved here...none. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 2:59:41 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not asking you. I'm asking Roland Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Sure. When the Hutu's started murdering the Tutsis (or was it the other way around), did anyone ever think, "Uh oh, this could lead to World War III and a nuclear holocaust"? I'm not asking you. I'm asking Roland He can weight in too, and he's 100% correct. I can add that to my post above, because I fully agree with it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:00:25 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how did all that start? Oh yeah a dickhead attacking his neighbors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who is the US trying to annex? How many countries has the US invaded in the last 50 years? None that were comparable to what Russia is doing right now, despite the fact that many of those wars shouldn't have happened. Why are you trying to excuse Russian behavior by pointing out (less) bad behavior by the US? Our actions directly lead to the death of more than a million people in the Middle East since 9/11. There is no moral authority here. And how did all that start? Oh yeah a dickhead attacking his neighbors. Technically, he asked the US representatives of the time, if there would be a reprisal for him attacking his neighbor. As he was a historical ally of the US in the Iran/Iraq war...he asked first...and was given a green light. It wasn't until later, specifically when other countries in the region pressured the US...that all of a sudden, he was the bad guy. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:01:02 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, the US democratically elected someone too...keep believing that. You want to get your war boner wet. Go get some. Stop pretending it is moral or justified and do it on your own time, not by proxy of US taxpayers and armed forces. There are no good guys in this fight. None. Stop trying to make it look like a john wayne movie and accept the reality that is is just two corrupt states fighting one another. PS. Nations don't have morality. They have national interests and what is best for their own citizens...is their national interest. There is zero upside for the US to be involved here...none. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. Ukraine is a corrupt quasi oligarchy that laundered money for US political groups and foreign powers. It is one of the most corrupt places on earth. This has not changed from then to now. Not once, has anyone in this thread identified a US National Interest in us fighting Russia for Ukraine. My standard is as stated above- Tell the guy working at McDonalds, why US tax money and manpower should go to Ukraine and not to anywhere else on the planet including domestic spending. Explain how that guy's taxes should be spent in Ukraine and exactly what will happen to him if we don't do it. Nothing...his life will not change by us staying home. We can feel bad about someone's country being invaded without that meaning we have to jump into the middle of the conflict. Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Yeah, the US democratically elected someone too...keep believing that. You want to get your war boner wet. Go get some. Stop pretending it is moral or justified and do it on your own time, not by proxy of US taxpayers and armed forces. There are no good guys in this fight. None. Stop trying to make it look like a john wayne movie and accept the reality that is is just two corrupt states fighting one another. PS. Nations don't have morality. They have national interests and what is best for their own citizens...is their national interest. There is zero upside for the US to be involved here...none. Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:03:15 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have more of a democracy than Russia, and Zelensky was elected. Our own congress is chock full of corruption too, I'm not sure how it plays into an unjustified invasion. And yet Freedom House still rates Ukraine as a “partially free” country regarding democracy and it even ranks below Hungary at 62 vs 69 out of 100 on their scale. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:03:21 PM EST
[#22]
Quoted: The U.S finally has the chance to kill the Russian Bear that we've been having proxy wars with for 70 years, yet people are bitching that the additional $15 in taxes will break the bank. It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:03:34 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. Ukraine is a corrupt quasi oligarchy that laundered money for US political groups and foreign powers. It is one of the most corrupt places on earth. This has not changed from then to now. Not once, has anyone in this thread identified a US National Interest in us fighting Russia for Ukraine. My standard is as stated above- Tell the guy working at McDonalds, why US tax money and manpower should go to Ukraine and not to anywhere else on the planet including domestic spending. Explain how that guy's taxes should be spent in Ukraine and exactly what will happen to him if we don't do it. Nothing...his life will not change by us staying home. We can feel bad about someone's country being invaded without that meaning we have to jump into the middle of the conflict. Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Yeah, the US democratically elected someone too...keep believing that. You want to get your war boner wet. Go get some. Stop pretending it is moral or justified and do it on your own time, not by proxy of US taxpayers and armed forces. There are no good guys in this fight. None. Stop trying to make it look like a john wayne movie and accept the reality that is is just two corrupt states fighting one another. PS. Nations don't have morality. They have national interests and what is best for their own citizens...is their national interest. There is zero upside for the US to be involved here...none. Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. They're Russian's and the default bad guy in any story they're involved in. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:04:37 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, the US democratically elected someone too...keep believing that. You want to get your war boner wet. Go get some. Stop pretending it is moral or justified and do it on your own time, not by proxy of US taxpayers and armed forces. There are no good guys in this fight. None. Stop trying to make it look like a john wayne movie and accept the reality that is is just two corrupt states fighting one another. PS. Nations don't have morality. They have national interests and what is best for their own citizens...is their national interest. There is zero upside for the US to be involved here...none. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. Ukraine is a corrupt quasi oligarchy that laundered money for US political groups and foreign powers. It is one of the most corrupt places on earth. This has not changed from then to now. Not once, has anyone in this thread identified a US National Interest in us fighting Russia for Ukraine. My standard is as stated above- Tell the guy working at McDonalds, why US tax money and manpower should go to Ukraine and not to anywhere else on the planet including domestic spending. Explain how that guy's taxes should be spent in Ukraine and exactly what will happen to him if we don't do it. Nothing...his life will not change by us staying home. We can feel bad about someone's country being invaded without that meaning we have to jump into the middle of the conflict. Ukraine democratically elected their leaders, and in fact the last time someone tried to prove what you said they actually ended up accidentally proving that it was Zelenskey's opposition that was the particularly corrupt party. Oops. I notice that you provided no sources, nor can you explain why them being corrupt means they waive the right to self defense. We are corrupt as well. I never said manpower should go to Ukraine or that we should "jump in the middle of it". But providing weapons and training is good to go. Your standard is weird. Yeah, the US democratically elected someone too...keep believing that. You want to get your war boner wet. Go get some. Stop pretending it is moral or justified and do it on your own time, not by proxy of US taxpayers and armed forces. There are no good guys in this fight. None. Stop trying to make it look like a john wayne movie and accept the reality that is is just two corrupt states fighting one another. PS. Nations don't have morality. They have national interests and what is best for their own citizens...is their national interest. There is zero upside for the US to be involved here...none. I am still in, and I have no intention of going to fight. I also have no problem in helping UKR to defend themselves. Stop pretending like I'm advocating we go to war. I'm not. In fact, doing what we're doing now helps to ensure Russia cannot invade another country and thus triggering article 5. This is one of the biggest upsides for us. Ensuring Russia has zero ability to trigger art 5. See, you can't think just one step ahead, you have to think of the unintended consequences of action and inaction. Your PS is wrong. When a nation unjustifiably invades, condones murder, pillage and rape and deliberately targets civilians that is immoral. I'm surprised this has to be said. Russia is very clearly the bad guy here, even a significant amount of Russians understand this. Ukraine is about as "good" as a country can be concerning this war. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:05:42 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet Freedom House still rates Ukraine as a “partially free” country regarding democracy and it even ranks below Hungary at 62 vs 69 out of 100 on their scale. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They have more of a democracy than Russia, and Zelensky was elected. Our own congress is chock full of corruption too, I'm not sure how it plays into an unjustified invasion. And yet Freedom House still rates Ukraine as a “partially free” country regarding democracy and it even ranks below Hungary at 62 vs 69 out of 100 on their scale. So? They deserve to genocided then? Surely that's not your point. So what is? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:06:36 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:06:43 PM EST
[#27]
I don't need others to believe a certain way to validate my own positions... but I am relieved to see FedDC taking the Russian apologist position.
 I can't remember anything I've agreed with him on. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:08:18 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin has stated that the ultimate goal is to regain former soviet countries, it would NOT have ended with Ukraine if he had an easy victory there- which is what we all expected. He's stated that Ukraine has no right to exist, and that Ukrainians are in fact Russians, and if they disagree they're Nazis, and if they're Nazis they need to be denazified (killed). This right here makes the situation SIGNIFICANTLY different that a civil war within a 3rd world country- as terrible as that is. In that case we arm one side and they genocide the other because both sides are animals. In this case we provide means for civilized people to defend themselves and retain their right to self determine their future. Not the same situation at all. Even without the genocide I'd still support arming Ukraine, but that's really the icing on the cake. Russia is acting like barbarians, we don't simply have to stand and watch. We can give the underdog a big stick and point them in the direction of the bully....then watch. Add on top of that stuff Putin's CONTINUAL invasions, saber rattling, etc- both concerning nukes and conventional war, it's very obvious that the smart thing to do is let Ukraine fight to take Russian down a few notches. The ENTIRE world would be better off without Russia destabilizing it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Putin has stated that the ultimate goal is to regain former soviet countries, it would NOT have ended with Ukraine if he had an easy victory there- which is what we all expected. He's stated that Ukraine has no right to exist, and that Ukrainians are in fact Russians, and if they disagree they're Nazis, and if they're Nazis they need to be denazified (killed). This right here makes the situation SIGNIFICANTLY different that a civil war within a 3rd world country- as terrible as that is. In that case we arm one side and they genocide the other because both sides are animals. In this case we provide means for civilized people to defend themselves and retain their right to self determine their future. Not the same situation at all. Even without the genocide I'd still support arming Ukraine, but that's really the icing on the cake. Russia is acting like barbarians, we don't simply have to stand and watch. We can give the underdog a big stick and point them in the direction of the bully....then watch. Add on top of that stuff Putin's CONTINUAL invasions, saber rattling, etc- both concerning nukes and conventional war, it's very obvious that the smart thing to do is let Ukraine fight to take Russian down a few notches. The ENTIRE world would be better off without Russia destabilizing it. Ok. We used different words to explain the same position.
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:09:19 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The U.S finally has the chance to kill the Russian Bear that we've been having proxy wars with for 70 years, yet people are bitching that the additional $15 in taxes will break the bank. It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. Informed people often side with the country that was invaded with zero justification and is currently threatened with destruction of their entire identity, which also not advocating for American boots on the ground. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:09:36 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't need others to believe a certain way to validate my own positions... but I am relieved to see FedDC taking the Russian apologist position. I can't remember anything I've agreed with him on. ^this lol |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:10:27 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't care. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Sure. When the Hutu's started murdering the Tutsis (or was it the other way around), did anyone ever think, "Uh oh, this could lead to World War III and a nuclear holocaust"? I'm not asking you. I'm asking Roland I don't care. 
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:11:01 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok. We used different words to explain the same position. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the tangible negative result for American citizens, if Russia takes Ukraine? Hunter Biden and associates can’t launder millions in bribes? Seriously. How does it affect the guy working at the local McDonalds? It doesn’t. That’s not pro Russia…it’s literally America First. Well, it wouldn't have ended with Ukraine for one. Two, personally, I am totally okay with providing weapons and training to a country that is quite literally at risk of being genocided. It doesn't effect the guy at mcdonald's, but it doesn't have to in order to justify some level of help. Apply that standard globally. Wanna go visit Rwanda? Maybe we should step in when Ethiopia and Eretria go at it again? How about the CAR and the never ending purges...it's a literal genocide. What's the difference now? Why now and not then? Maybe we can add Tibet and what the Chinese did/are doing there? Wanna go toe to toe with the Chinese? You can't claim an ethical standard and then selectively apply it. We let genocide happen regularly and do nothing...so why are we all fired up about this one? Could there be other reasons...gee...what else happens in that specific country... A civil war within a country in africa is a lot different than an unjustified invasion in Europe. Not an apples to apples comparison. Further, Rwandan forces never had their eyes on neighbors, and never threatened dropping nukes on everyone if they didn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy, but it's not the same scenario. What else is in Ukraine? Please be specific and provide sources. It's clear that you don't care about stopping genocide where it exists, just this instance of it. So be honest and just state that the Ukrainian genocide is the perfect reason to make some geopolitical changes. This is objectively the best reason the US has had in years, to knock Russia to the dirt and I fully support doing so. Sorry if you don't understand the differences in the situations as I explained already. I do agree it's a great time to knock a bully down a few pegs though...but the Rwanda genocide is not the same scenario. The geopolitics of one country invading another, is the only difference. It's more than that, as already explained. So it's the combo of genocide, invasion and existential threat? I'm legitimately trying to understand your position here. Putin has stated that the ultimate goal is to regain former soviet countries, it would NOT have ended with Ukraine if he had an easy victory there- which is what we all expected. He's stated that Ukraine has no right to exist, and that Ukrainians are in fact Russians, and if they disagree they're Nazis, and if they're Nazis they need to be denazified (killed). This right here makes the situation SIGNIFICANTLY different that a civil war within a 3rd world country- as terrible as that is. In that case we arm one side and they genocide the other because both sides are animals. In this case we provide means for civilized people to defend themselves and retain their right to self determine their future. Not the same situation at all. Even without the genocide I'd still support arming Ukraine, but that's really the icing on the cake. Russia is acting like barbarians, we don't simply have to stand and watch. We can give the underdog a big stick and point them in the direction of the bully....then watch. Add on top of that stuff Putin's CONTINUAL invasions, saber rattling, etc- both concerning nukes and conventional war, it's very obvious that the smart thing to do is let Ukraine fight to take Russian down a few notches. The ENTIRE world would be better off without Russia destabilizing it. Ok. We used different words to explain the same position. Fair enough  I try to be clear and concise in my posts, but sometimes fall a little short
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:11:06 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The U.S finally has the chance to kill the Russian Bear that we've been having proxy wars with for 70 years, yet people are bitching that the additional $15 in taxes will break the bank. It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. This organization is funded by the Globalist George Soros. Do you agree with their Soros-funded message?:  |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:11:12 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The U.S finally has the chance to kill the Russian Bear that we've been having proxy wars with for 70 years, yet people are bitching that the additional $15 in taxes will break the bank. It is amazing to me. Also equally amazing to me the amount of so called Americans here that root for Ukraine, thus partner with the left and globalists of the world. Quite alright with American corruption of Ukraine and the effort to destroy our Republic. Informed people support neither side and do not support America getting into a war with Russia. Who here have you seen advocating for the US to get into a war with Russia ? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:12:07 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ^this lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't need others to believe a certain way to validate my own positions... but I am relieved to see FedDC taking the Russian apologist position. I can't remember anything I've agreed with him on. ^this lol He was against mask and vaccine mandates.
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:12:21 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. Genocide and baby-raping is okay as long as you are the same ethnicity? "My God, son! You murdered your own brother!" "It's okay, dad. It's only Fratricide!" |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:12:47 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was against mask and vaccine mandates. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't need others to believe a certain way to validate my own positions... but I am relieved to see FedDC taking the Russian apologist position. I can't remember anything I've agreed with him on. ^this lol He was against mask and vaccine mandates. Damn, okay like 1 for 100 then
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:15:01 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. Genocide. Ethnicity goes beyond simple genetics. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:15:19 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. You don't comprehend the issue as they see it then. Russia agrees with you. They say Ukrainians are also Russians, and Belarusians are little Russians. If you disagree with this, then you are a nationalist/nazi (their definition) and thus need to die. They are attempting to wipe out the national identity of Ukraine- this is genocide, not fratricide. Words mean things. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:19:46 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many countries has the US invaded in the last 50 years? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who is the US trying to annex? How many countries has the US invaded in the last 50 years? Don’t change the subject. Russia is trying to annex a neighbor. Who is the US trying to annex? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:20:29 PM EST
[#41]
So is this more about rooting for Russia, or is it that they're just not rooting for Ukraine?
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:21:06 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. I feel badly for the people in Ukraine or anywhere else they are suffering under authoritarian or illegitimate rule. It’s those rulers that are the problem. MSM is just a collaborator. How did the MSM force poor victim Putin to try to eradicate Ukrainians and annex their country? Please provide details. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:22:26 PM EST
[#43]
NVM
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:23:38 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine is a corrupt quasi oligarchy that laundered money for US political groups and foreign powers. It is one of the most corrupt places on earth. This has not changed from then to now. Russia is the same and has done as much or more, so why do you support them trying to annex their neighbor? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:23:42 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't comprehend the issue as they see it then. Russia agrees with you. They say Ukrainians are also Russians, and Belarusians are little Russians. If you disagree with this, then you are a nationalist/nazi (their definition) and thus need to die. They are attempting to wipe out the national identity of Ukraine- this is genocide, not fratricide. Words mean things. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Usually, the country that commits genocide (and baby raping) ends up being the "bad guy" in the story. Fratricide, they’re both ethnically Eastern Slavs along with Belarusians. You don't comprehend the issue as they see it then. Russia agrees with you. They say Ukrainians are also Russians, and Belarusians are little Russians. If you disagree with this, then you are a nationalist/nazi (their definition) and thus need to die. They are attempting to wipe out the national identity of Ukraine- this is genocide, not fratricide. Words mean things. It has been a while since I studied the subject but was not Belarus the White Russians and the Ukrainians were the Little Russians |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:28:19 PM EST
[#46]
I'll make it really simple, who is pointing nuclear weapons at you?
Ukraine? No. NATO? No. Russia? Yes. So, why are you cheering on Russia? Would you cheer on a criminal who was pointing a firearm at you?  I don't agree with A LOT of what the USA has done concerning Russia. I want the USA to be smarter about how we handle our adversaries. I fully realize that we do NOT have a plan in place for how to fill a power vacuum that would be left if Putin was removed from power and that it is idiotic that we don't have one in place. I have almost zero faith in the competence of our leaders and like you I know the globalist interests are served in defeating and breaking up the Russian Federation. Doesn't change the fact that Russia is my enemy and they need to go down before they take me down. I'm tired of the Russian threat, I would welcome an end to it and all their bullshit. I will say this too, the Russians better thank their lucky stars that they have nuclear weapons because it's crystal clear that even with our lack luster generals we could steam roll them in a conventional fight. We'd stack Russians like cord wood in a conventional fight. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:33:57 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is this more about rooting for Russia, or is it that they're just not rooting for Ukraine? Some of us are totally rooting for Ukraine and their national identity but we know that this is a proxy war. If you go to my posts on Maidan back during the Obama regime, you’ll see I knew this was coming. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:34:13 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hypocrisy and double standards much? Yes, citing NATO's reaction to Russian aggression as justification for that aggression is much hypocritical. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:40:45 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia is the same and has done as much or more, so why do you support them trying to annex their neighbor? Russia is a known quantity and has Putin because of a pissing match between corrupt oligarchs same as Ukraine. Zelensky’s sponsor, Kolomoiyskyi, has been called “Ukraine’s Berezovsky”. Berezovsky is the Russian oligarch that funded Putin’s rise to power in order to counter Western economic competitors and then Putin chased him out of Russia, seized his assets and eventually assassinated him. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 3:42:14 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was against mask and vaccine mandates. Goddamit. 
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