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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:38:09 PM EST
[#1]
The feds don't mess around once they decide to come for you. I really wish him the best. Our stupid laws make it so hard that people get frustrated and find work arounds.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:38:48 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why we need to defund. Remember, they didn’t go after gangs, they didn’t go after cartels, they didn’t go after criminals, they took lawful men and made them criminals. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:39:16 PM EST
[#3]
Any argument for a moral high-ground regarding mUh sAnCtiOnS evaporated by the governments' own actions.
FnF Taliban ACOGs and NODs Iranian Warbux Ukrainian Warbux Many such cases. Daily reminder that the same government that would arrest you for letting a foreign national even look through an i2 device literally left piles of them for people we were fighting for decades. Quote HistoryQuoted: The sanctions issues aren’t limited to 2A arguments. If it was some other chub being paid by and receiving items from an Iranian company, GD would be chanting murder. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:40:36 PM EST
[#4]
Damn
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:41:30 PM EST
[#5]
Yikes.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:43:27 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any argument for a moral high-ground regarding mUh sAnCtiOnS evaporated by the governments' own actions. FnF Taliban ACOGs and NODs Iranian Warbux Ukrainian Warbux Many such cases. Quote HistoryQuoted: Any argument for a moral high-ground regarding mUh sAnCtiOnS evaporated by the governments' own actions. FnF Taliban ACOGs and NODs Iranian Warbux Ukrainian Warbux Many such cases. Quoted: The sanctions issues aren’t limited to 2A arguments. If it was some other chub being paid by and receiving items from an Iranian company, GD would be chanting murder. No moral high ground required, but I will call BS on selective outrage dependent on the people involved. If you read the docs, Larry got greedy and he really fucked up. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:44:34 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whatever, dude. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Cuck. Quoted: This. Pretty much everyone here would be fine with automatic weapons and cans being available over the counter at 7-11 24/7, because “shall not be infringed”. Hell, a mail order tomahawk would make a better world. The reality is, that’s not the way it is. Right or wrong, there are laws about how you handle automatic weapons. We all know that, and Vickers damned sure knew it, chose to violate those laws, and got caught. That blows, but he fucked around and found out. Whatever, dude. Yeah, and the United States Constitution "shall not be infringed" that you casually mention is the law of the land and the other "violated laws" you mention run directly 180 degrees counter to that. If you are okay with that, you should question your patriotism perhaps. We have been boiled in the water for so long, we have begun to fall in line with the narrative and suffer normalcy bias towards acceptance of that fact. We should all be fighting against it. I don't know anything about LAV, couldn't give 2 rat's asses about him other than respect his service. However, if he managed to screw the system into letting him practice his ACTUAL Constitutionally protected freedoms, then more power to him. It's kinda like wanting to be angry at someone who pays an accountant to find tax loopholes to avoid getting taxed 37 times on the same dollar. More power to him for avoiding robbery. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:45:59 PM EST
[#8]
 RUSSIAN AK-12 |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:46:40 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The LAV is a pompous ass, and not a good person; however, this is more typical bullshit from government, and they will happily perpetrate antics such as this, in lieu of solving actual problems. I'm surprised to hear that. I'm a nobody in his world and yet every time I was ever around him he's was nothing but friendly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:48:26 PM EST
[#10]
This.
People in this thread have shown what abject sniveling shitweasels they are. "He ShOuLdNt HaVe TrIeD tO CirCuMvEnT tHe UnCoNsTiTuTiOnAl Edited - Skg Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, and the United States Constitution "shall not be infringed" that you casually mention is the law of the land and the other "violated laws" you mention run directly 180 degrees counter to that. If you are okay with that, you should question your patriotism perhaps. We have been boiled in the water for so long, we have begun to fall in line with the narrative and suffer normalcy bias towards acceptance of that fact. We should all be fighting against it. I don't know anything about LAV, couldn't give 2 rat's asses about him other than respect his service. However, if he managed to screw the system into letting him practice his ACTUAL Constitutionally protected freedoms, then more power to him. It's kinda like wanting to be angry at someone who pays an accountant to find tax loopholes to avoid getting taxed 37 times on the same dollar. More power to him for avoiding robbery. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:49:36 PM EST
[#11]
 Russian SVDS |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:49:53 PM EST
[#12]
I can simultaneously dislike him, Hackathorn, Paul Hotaling, Grant Timberlake and that entire dickhead crew and still find what happened to them disgusting.
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm surprised to hear that. I'm a nobody in his world and yet every time I was ever around him he's was nothing but friendly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:50:06 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock switches and lightning links all over the hood and this is what they focus on? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:51:12 PM EST
[#14]
The NFA is clearly Unconstitutional under Heller and Bruen.
Vickers is yet another victim of this tyrannical soviet regime. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:58:06 PM EST
[#15]
This country is out of control…
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:59:24 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The LAV is a pompous ass, and not a good person; however, this is more typical bullshit from government, and they will happily perpetrate antics such as this, in lieu of solving actual problems. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:00:27 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and being a convicted felon his days of firearm instruction to those who enter into harms way are over. His livelihood is gone.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Based on other cases I’ve seen, I think LAV will get 12-18 month in club Fed. It will be a farm camp w no walls and bed check only. If he can roll on a few other dealers, he might get zero time. What got him was the illegal import, the love letters was just the icing on the cake. and being a convicted felon his days of firearm instruction to those who enter into harms way are over. His livelihood is gone. I’m not passing judgement on LAV. It’s not in my district and not my case. What I do know is “never invite the man into your life”. NFA is heavy scrutinized and the penalties for errors are very expensive. 18Z50 |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:03:13 PM EST
[#18]
Still a lot of people jerking off about the ATF and 2nd amendment stuff and conflating the sanctions violations into a gun issue.
If he had illegally imported North Korean dildos and made money off them would it be more clear? It's exactly the same scenario. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:05:56 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reading the docs, damn, Larry really FAFO. I feel bad for him but at the same time, he sure dug his own grave. If only he hadn't crossed the sanctions line, but how far he took it is pretty untenable legally. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:08:07 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, and the United States Constitution "shall not be infringed" that you casually mention is the law of the land and the other "violated laws" you mention run directly 180 degrees counter to that. If you are okay with that, you should question your patriotism perhaps. We have been boiled in the water for so long, we have begun to fall in line with the narrative and suffer normalcy bias towards acceptance of that fact. We should all be fighting against it. I don't know anything about LAV, couldn't give 2 rat's asses about him other than respect his service. However, if he managed to screw the system into letting him practice his ACTUAL Constitutionally protected freedoms, then more power to him. It's kinda like wanting to be angry at someone who pays an accountant to find tax loopholes to avoid getting taxed 37 times on the same dollar. More power to him for avoiding robbery. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Cuck. Quoted: This. Pretty much everyone here would be fine with automatic weapons and cans being available over the counter at 7-11 24/7, because “shall not be infringed”. Hell, a mail order tomahawk would make a better world. The reality is, that’s not the way it is. Right or wrong, there are laws about how you handle automatic weapons. We all know that, and Vickers damned sure knew it, chose to violate those laws, and got caught. That blows, but he fucked around and found out. Whatever, dude. Yeah, and the United States Constitution "shall not be infringed" that you casually mention is the law of the land and the other "violated laws" you mention run directly 180 degrees counter to that. If you are okay with that, you should question your patriotism perhaps. We have been boiled in the water for so long, we have begun to fall in line with the narrative and suffer normalcy bias towards acceptance of that fact. We should all be fighting against it. I don't know anything about LAV, couldn't give 2 rat's asses about him other than respect his service. However, if he managed to screw the system into letting him practice his ACTUAL Constitutionally protected freedoms, then more power to him. It's kinda like wanting to be angry at someone who pays an accountant to find tax loopholes to avoid getting taxed 37 times on the same dollar. More power to him for avoiding robbery. Maybe I should write this in crayon so you understand… We all agree that it shouldn’t be illegal, but it is. He knew it, we know it. Therefore it’s on him. So take your “cuck” and shove it up your ass. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:09:06 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NFA is clearly Unconstitutional under Heller and Bruen. Vickers is yet another victim of this tyrannical soviet regime. Any lawyers here; IF at some future point, the Bruen ruling is somehow used to deem the NFA unconstitutional, and therefore void, would people with convictions like these automatically be eligible for release/reconsideration? Or is there some kind of, "You knew it was against the law, back when you did it, and were convicted for it" kinda BS? Similarly, I've always wondered, if someone was convicted on murder charges, escaped from prison and disappeared, then someone turns up evidence that clears them, can an a-hole DA still pull some kind of, "Breaking out of a Fed penitentiary is a crime in and of itself, even if you weren't supposed to have been there"? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:09:42 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. But now go back through just THIS thread and count all the people saying, "He should have just followed the law..."  The law most of them agree is "bullshit" and unConstitutional... but they follow it anyway and denigrate anyone stepping out of line.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Our government, especially federal law enforcement is an outright criminal disgrace. The law most of them agree is "bullshit" and unConstitutional... but they follow it anyway and denigrate anyone stepping out of line.I see your point, but who says he actually didn't follow the law? With the amazing amount of lying and evidence fabrication the federal government has been doing over the past 15 years, I'm hard pressed to take any fucking thing at all they say at face value. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:11:57 PM EST
[#23]
Is there a link to the documents?
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:12:33 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Pretty much everyone here would be fine with automatic weapons and cans being available over the counter at 7-11 24/7, because “shall not be infringed”. Hell, a mail order tomahawk would make a better world. The reality is, that’s not the way it is. Right or wrong, there are laws about how you handle automatic weapons. We all know that, and Vickers damned sure knew it, chose to violate those laws, and got caught. That blows, but he fucked around and found out. Exactly. Looks like he got with his hand in the cookie jar, they had him dead to rights. He plead guilty because he is guilty. It sucks, the NFA is bullshit, the import bans are bullshit. But he knew the law, he knew the risks, he chose to anyway. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:13:35 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NFA is clearly Unconstitutional under Heller and Bruen. Vickers is yet another victim of this tyrannical soviet regime. The sanctions violations are not an NFA issue. If the NFA didn't exist he would still be in deep shit. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:14:57 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a link to the documents? They are in this thread (3 sets).
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:19:04 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why we need to defund. Remember, they didn’t go after gangs, they didn’t go after cartels, they didn’t go after criminals, they took lawful men and made them criminals. Sounds like they went after a couple corrupt cops and their friends |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:19:28 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NRA never liked machineguns or automatic weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bruen decided basically that the NFA is unconstitutional. And the recent Benitez’s ruling just reaffirmed this. So I’d fight this all the way up. BTW….Where is the NRA? The NRA never liked machineguns or automatic weapons. Well, many of the NRA BOD members do. So much so that they would (and have) oppose any action to repeal the Hughes Amendment to the FOPA. They have personal fortunes at risk. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:20:55 PM EST
[#29]
"Vickers knowingly conspired and agreed with codefendants Sean Sullivan, Matthew Jeremy Hall, James Sawyer, and others to defraud the United States, namely the Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) by interferingwith and obstructing the lawful government functions of the ATF to restrict the transfer, possession, and/or importation of machineguns and other firearms..." Those functions aren't lawful. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:21:08 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hello, I think I have information that pertains to this. While I've been advised not to speak on this matter I'm dying and really dont give a flying fuck anymore. I purchased an AK-12 built off one of the imported kits by one of the Gentlemen indicted and was paid a very heavy handed visit by the ATF, IRS, and DHS last week over it. Everything I owned was papered and legal and I've never been an FFL or had any previous trouble in life. They seized everything I had and advised me that an indictment would possibly be coming my way for possession of the AK-12 as it's import is evidence that sanctions have been violated and that it didn't matter that the rifle was imported as a kit and remanufactured here that the act of importation of the kit and possession of it there in of it's self is illegal. Parts count, semi-automatic, nothing mattered except the origin of the original parts left on the rifle which weren't many. I asked about all the other people who purchased these kits and was told that the BATFE, IRS-CI, and DHS would be tracking down and retrieving any kit or built rifle in the country and possibly charging the owners. I asked them how they figured out that I even had one and was told that FINCEN is alerting on large gun purchases now and the banks and Gunbroker are assisting the federal agencies involved in finding these weapons. Beware what you buy kids even if the seller says it's legal. I'm going to sue the shit out of the dealer I bought this from as it was represented as a legal to possess firearm. I hope that this isn't true. If it is, you have my utmost sympathy. It's bullshit for you to get slammed for someone else's crimes. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:26:01 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad I stayed with repairing printers in my spare time. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:30:45 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gang members carry machine guns everywhere in our US inner cities and post pix/vids of themselves criming. ATF and DOJ are going after these guys because they are white, non-homosexual men who vote conservative. Change my mind. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:33:19 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Glock switches and lightning links all over the hood and this is what they focus on? One of those is dangerous and the other let's you brag to your cocktail party douchebag friends that you arrested a Delta guy. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:36:03 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, and the United States Constitution "shall not be infringed" that you casually mention is the law of the land and the other "violated laws" you mention run directly 180 degrees counter to that. If you are okay with that, you should question your patriotism perhaps. We have been boiled in the water for so long, we have begun to fall in line with the narrative and suffer normalcy bias towards acceptance of that fact. We should all be fighting against it. I don't know anything about LAV, couldn't give 2 rat's asses about him other than respect his service. However, if he managed to screw the system into letting him practice his ACTUAL Constitutionally protected freedoms, then more power to him. It's kinda like wanting to be angry at someone who pays an accountant to find tax loopholes to avoid getting taxed 37 times on the same dollar. More power to him for avoiding robbery. You are NOT wrong. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:36:54 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF has been cracking down hard on law letters for years now. Reading between the lines it sounds like a couple small town police chiefs were basically just giving their FFL/SOT buddies letters for whatever they want, likely for some sort of favors in return. This isn't the first case I've heard of like this being prosecuted. Pretty much this. This is a perfect example for Al those folks who say “im not paying $30k for a transferable MG! I’ll just start and FFL/SOT and get as many MGs as I want.” It’s a lot more complicated that it seems. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:38:03 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or maybe ATF should focus on something more important, like tens of thousands of illegal machine guns in the hands of violent criminals. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Correct, they really should have known better. Or maybe ATF should focus on something more important, like tens of thousands of illegal machine guns in the hands of violent criminals. YOU are the violent criminal now. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:40:09 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NRA never liked machineguns or automatic weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bruen decided basically that the NFA is unconstitutional. And the recent Benitez’s ruling just reaffirmed this. So I’d fight this all the way up. BTW….Where is the NRA? The NRA never liked machineguns or automatic weapons. True Aside from NRA help with WW2 surplus back in the day (pre-68), they have become the most useless bunch of Fudds on Earth. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:40:11 PM EST
[#38]
Yeah, doesn't seem like that was very smart....
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:41:56 PM EST
[#39]
Fuck the following,
ATF NFA I have the utmost respect for LV's service but I remember when he told us what he thought of us. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:42:57 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sanctions violations are not an NFA issue. If the NFA didn't exist he would still be in deep shit. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:44:58 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm surprised to hear that. I'm a nobody in his world and yet every time I was ever around him he's was nothing but friendly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The LAV is a pompous ass, and not a good person; however, this is more typical bullshit from government, and they will happily perpetrate antics such as this, in lieu of solving actual problems. I'm surprised to hear that. I'm a nobody in his world and yet every time I was ever around him he's was nothing but friendly. I did a class with him, had lunch and dinner with him, good guy. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:47:19 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty much this. This is a perfect example for Al those folks who say “im not paying $30k for a transferable MG! I’ll just start and FFL/SOT and get as many MGs as I want.” It’s a lot more complicated that it seems. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ATF has been cracking down hard on law letters for years now. Reading between the lines it sounds like a couple small town police chiefs were basically just giving their FFL/SOT buddies letters for whatever they want, likely for some sort of favors in return. This isn't the first case I've heard of like this being prosecuted. Pretty much this. This is a perfect example for Al those folks who say “im not paying $30k for a transferable MG! I’ll just start and FFL/SOT and get as many MGs as I want.” It’s a lot more complicated that it seems. This is levels above that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:47:55 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, many of the NRA BOD members do. So much so that they would (and have) oppose any action to repeal the Hughes Amendment to the FOPA. They have personal fortunes at risk. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bruen decided basically that the NFA is unconstitutional. And the recent Benitez’s ruling just reaffirmed this. So I’d fight this all the way up. BTW….Where is the NRA? The NRA never liked machineguns or automatic weapons. Well, many of the NRA BOD members do. So much so that they would (and have) oppose any action to repeal the Hughes Amendment to the FOPA. They have personal fortunes at risk. Yeah. More than a few of those folks don't want their $$,$$$ - $$$,$$$ devalued overnight if new machineguns became legal. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:48:13 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NRA never liked machineguns or automatic weapons. This. The two clubs I have joined are "NRA membership required". Both have explicitly stated "no automatic weapons allowed" in their bylaws. As a life member, fuck the NRA.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:52:18 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get it. What they are doing to him is fucked. But he was literally gaming the system to get "Extra priviliges" that the rest of us dont have cause we dont have freinds in the gov. Im simply calling out the hypocrisy of people decrying how hes being treated cause of his service when hes being treated like every other joe on this site. He called in favors had favors answered then someone looking for a promotion ratted him out. Welcome to the world of printer repair people. ETA. Lesson being. Dont trust feds or have them as your friend's. They are only as loyal as their paycheck Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fuck the ATF. Dude goes out and serves his country doing some real dangerous shit and this is how he gets paid back. Despicable. Amen! And the rest of us? Fuck us? Is one of us more worthy than the other cause of service? Jesus H. Christ, please calm down. Nobody is saying that Larry Vickers deserves special treatment. What people are saying is that it's despicable for the ATF to be so ass-chapped over harmless things that they'll go after anyone, even a combat veteran with cancer. Nobody here, including myself, is saying that you don't deserve your Second Amendment rights, or anything of the sort. I get it. What they are doing to him is fucked. But he was literally gaming the system to get "Extra priviliges" that the rest of us dont have cause we dont have freinds in the gov. Im simply calling out the hypocrisy of people decrying how hes being treated cause of his service when hes being treated like every other joe on this site. He called in favors had favors answered then someone looking for a promotion ratted him out. Welcome to the world of printer repair people. ETA. Lesson being. Dont trust feds or have them as your friend's. They are only as loyal as their paycheck I don't see a bunch of ghetto ass banger thugs with switches getting busted and they are doing the same exact thing, importing MG's. However, they are actually using them to kill people. Don't see the FATFE doing a single g-damn thing about that. Since we all know the FATFE is reading all this, whats the deal, they too scary for you? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:54:59 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hello, I think I have information that pertains to this. While I've been advised not to speak on this matter I'm dying and really dont give a flying fuck anymore. I purchased an AK-12 built off one of the imported kits by one of the Gentlemen indicted and was paid a very heavy handed visit by the ATF, IRS, and DHS last week over it. Everything I owned was papered and legal and I've never been an FFL or had any previous trouble in life. They seized everything I had and advised me that an indictment would possibly be coming my way for possession of the AK-12 as it's import is evidence that sanctions have been violated and that it didn't matter that the rifle was imported as a kit and remanufactured here that the act of importation of the kit and possession of it there in of it's self is illegal. Parts count, semi-automatic, nothing mattered except the origin of the original parts left on the rifle which weren't many. I asked about all the other people who purchased these kits and was told that the BATFE, IRS-CI, and DHS would be tracking down and retrieving any kit or built rifle in the country and possibly charging the owners. I asked them how they figured out that I even had one and was told that FINCEN is alerting on large gun purchases now and the banks and Gunbroker are assisting the federal agencies involved in finding these weapons. Beware what you buy kids even if the seller says it's legal. I'm going to sue the shit out of the dealer I bought this from as it was represented as a legal to possess firearm. Can you elaborate at all on this? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:55:20 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bruen decided basically that the NFA is unconstitutional. And the recent Benitez’s ruling just reaffirmed this. So I’d fight this all the way up. BTW….Where is the NRA? Pretty sure they are on the corporate jet flying to Italy to buy suits on the way to their next business meeting (safari). |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 7:58:34 PM EST
[#48]
So does it say how they got caught?
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Posted: 10/20/2023 8:02:31 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does it say how they got caught? Probably turned in by someone who repairs laser printers by day and secretly watches SpongeBob SquarePants during the evening. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 8:02:38 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see a bunch of ghetto ass banger thugs with switches getting busted That's because you aren't looking. Plenty of them are getting nailed. This whole lie that "the bad guys aren't getting in any trouble when they break the law" is just ignorance. Glock switch dealer busted. That's one hit found in 2 seconds, plenty more. |
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