and Gerogia isn't overflowing with illegals?

You all act like the feds would come to your house and knock on your door to confiscate your weapons, so you can shoot them all on your lawn. They will get you while you're doing your banking or taking a shit at your office. Or they will just search warrant your house while you aren't home. Gonna need to get smarter people.

I don't know, but it's retarded and I wish they'd stop.
 

For the most part Law Enforcement is on the side of lawful gun owners, its places like this that sour a lot of cops.

FIFY

Ask weaver, koresh, and Jose guerena, and many others I can't remember. For some reason, the raiders like houses.

Yeah none of us has planned for the obvious.

There have been a number of cops on this thread, (including myself on page 1) who stated confiscation would not happen.
Since the vast majority of you seem to thing we're either full of shit, or the minority with regards to LE....

Let me use some simple math. Its got to be simple math, because I'm going to be using it, and I'm not a mathematician, or a rocket surgeon.

According to some fast internet searching, (with no claims to the authenticity of the information):

As of 2006 there were approximately 800,000 full time LE in the US. This number includes state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers, as well as Federal LE.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states
I dont know what the current number of full time LE is in the US. But, since the economy has gone to shit, and the vast majority of agencies have been downsizing or cutting through attrition, I would estimate that number to be lower. But for sake of argument, we'll stick with the 800K number.

According to the ATF, in 1999 there were approximately 215 million privately owned firearms in the US. The NRA estimates approximately half of the homes in the US have firearms. Rough estimates from the link have aproximately 70-80 million gun owners in the US at the time of the link being answered, (which near as I can tell was in June/July of 2004 when the US population was approximately 294 million.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_owners_are_there_in_the_US

As of July 2011, there were 311.5919 million living in the US.
Mouse over the graph and population and date will pop up.
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=country:US&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20population

Using the NRA estimates of 50% of the population owning firearms and the 2011 information that gives us 155.79579 million gun owners in the US in 2011.

But for sake of argument, lets use the 2004 numbers from the 2nd link and split the difference between the two.

75 million gun owners divided by 800 thousand cops in the US = 93.75

So basically, ALL of the full time cops in the US are outnumbered by gun owners damn near 100 to 1.

So if door to door gun confiscation is ordered at the highest levels, and ALL of the full time cops in the US carry out those orders, if 94% of the gun owners voluntarily surrunder their weapons, without a fight....the cops will have an even one to one fight with those who resist.

That's if ALL of the cops agree to do so, and only 6% of the gun onwers in the US resist.

I'd bet money, ALOT of money, that the actual numbers of gun owners has increased, and the number of full time police have decreased since that information I linked up was posted.

I'd also bet my children's inheritance that no where near 100% of all of the full time cops in the US would carry out those orders. Every cop I've seen post on this thread has stated they wouldnt and either stated they know or know for fact and havent stated it (like me) that at least half of their department would refuse such orders as being Unconstitutional.

Despite GD's thoughts otherwise....most cops arent stupid.
We know what's Unconstitutional, and we dont feel like dying needlessly for stupid people.

Assuming ALL of the fulltime LE officers in the US went door to door confiscating firearms.....

I'd bet the first week would go fairly easily.
Then the internet forums would explode and the word would get out and videos of the confiscations taking place would make it online.
The second week, you'd start to see resistance. There would deaths on both sides. This would completely inflame gun owners and would definately shake the determination of the rank and file cops who are dying in an attempt to confiscate firearms. You would begin to see resignations and desertions from the ranks.
The third week, the body counts would be so high on the LE side of things, you wouldnt have enough officers left to make a serious effort at confiscation. Those that tried would die. Everyone else would quit.
There would not be a fourth week of confiscation.

So if you refuse to believe the LEO's on the site here who have stated there would be no confiscation because it's Unconstitutional and they would refuse...

Look at the simple math....

It doesnt matter if we were lying about it when we ALL said we wouldnt confiscate guns. We simply dont have the manpower to go door to door to confiscate your guns. We'd lose.
Period.

That's the God's honest truth folks.....it really is that simple.

I agree with all the above points.

That said if a person intended to resist confiscation sitting at home waiting for them to come to you is the wrong way to go about it.

Remember, they aren't talking about just evil black rifles here, they are talking about every gun that takes a "high capacity magazine".  Other than Fudd guns, revolvers and single-stack autoloaders, that's pretty much everthing else.  Walk around a gun show.  That's probably at least 25% of the guns on the tables.  Maybe more.

The super sneaky approach you outline would work for the first handful of cases.  There are ten states with firearms ownership rates over 50%, and half of the states have ownership rates over 40%.  There just aren't enough sneaky cops.  Sorry.  After the first few cases, the people that are going to resist are going to "go heavy" everywhere, if they aren't already.

And what happens when that ownership itself is made unlawful?

Yup...
People would figure that out by the end of the first week.

Your point?

I work from home and bank online, my shitter is fine (can't go in a public restroom I'd hold it and drive home anyway) Guess I am good on most point's.  But they would need scuba gear to get my stuff, damn boating accident.

By "places like this", are you talking about ar15.com?  We are talking about the possibility of law enforcement officers being ordered to carry out unconstitutional orders.  I sure as fuck hope that the idea of being shot while criminally carrying out unconstitutional orders, "sours" some cops.  I hope it absolutely terrifies the ones that would consider it.  It should.

The rest, that take their oaths seriously?  They have nothing to worry about.

Of course, you are absolutely right.  At least one of your fellow LEO's in this thread has stated that they could basically pull-off the Ruby Ridge incident, whenever they feel like it, apparently an unlimited amount of times.  I hope he's still reading this.

As long as the numbers in Congress stay where they are, all this will come to is a scary discussion on the limits of police power in a free country.  The Second Amendment exists exactly so that this discussion can take place.  If the fucktards in government and their minions won't respect free Americans, they had better learn to fear them.

Provided the media, the same media that thinks its fine to intimidate gun owners by publishing their addresses, decides to cover it.  

Please just pack up your things and Get The F**k out of TEXAS........

I'm not going to worry about it.  If it gets to the point that local, state, or federal LE are going door to door, you have more to worry about than losing your small arms.  If you haven't prepared for such a possibility, then you're fucked.

Have a plan.  Posses a mindset.  Prepare now.  Bonus points:  Get right with Christ, to give you the strength when the moment of truth comes.  Sounds nuts?  It isn't.  Faith is more powerful than any EBR you may own-especially when combined with an intelligent and logical mind.  You may have to answer in the next life for what you do here on Earth.  

Oh, and plan to give up your life because nobody "resists" without paying the price.  "Rules of the game.  Check it out"-hence the above.

Merry Christmas.

I'm only one page into this thread, but let me say I expect a majority of officers to obey such an order. That means at least 51% will.

And others have said it already: it would get ugly...and that's why wholesale confiscation won't happen for quite a while yet (if at all). They'll just whittle away at us for years or decades.

I really want to see where this went.

It was entertaining. Well worth the read

I do give those numbers credence, but LEO's will not be given the mandate.  It'd come from FEMA or .mil.

depends where you live
I don't know, seems to me most police officials are for banning  lawful ownership of so called evil  "assault weapons": I can't remember ever hearing any police officer publicly defending them.
I think the cops around my neck of the woods would love going door to door...kicking ass etc.. I know for a fact they have been doing training with swat teams in this one area near where I live.I have a  relative who is on the force and he told me about it:
(not for this specifically but for so called "right wing fringe and domestic terrorism, etc.".)

I think what all police should think about is this: I was just at horrible Christmas dinner and many of the people there where on the left: All the ones on the left argued that they believe that our constitution was antiquated and could, and should be changed.: These are the people that are running the country and this is the shit they believe. I  mean we have judges who fucking publicly  idolize Mao Zedong. We  have a President who was willing to run guns to the Mexican drug cartel in hopes that a few Americans would get killed so he could ban guns: They should be in jail for what they did!!! And this Benghazi crap.... all the tip of the iceberg, god knows what they are up to!   2nd amendment one day,  the other amendments down the road.

It might vary widely by region.  In the metro cities, especially on the coasts, it might be higher.  In the rural south, not so much.

I only get a paycheck and 401K outta this gig.  Both can be replaced.

all it would take is one text message to have that news viral within a couple of hours

So will you and ARFCOM hq pack up and move to a free state if that happens?





 

Indeed.

PPPPPP


As unlikely as it is, it's best to plan.

In the HIGHLY UNLIKELY even this even remotely happened it probably would go like:

*knock knock*
Homeowner: *opens door* Hello?
Police: Don't see any guns, have a good day sir. *walk off*

I mean legally speaking they "looked" within the confines of the law...

Except of course in the bad neighborhoods.

 

Same point I've been arguing for almost a decade, even if 1 thenth of one percent of gun owners says fuckit I'm shooting confiscators, we're talking something like 80 - 100K insurgents, 4 times the amount that it took 40% of our military might to barely contain in Iraq.

Door to door confiscation will NEVER happen in the U.S.

While for the most part I agree, in Iraq, had the military gone "full retard" or started really fighting dirty, the media woulda howled....massacring some right wingers in the name of the children and security, the media might not care so much.  I mean it's the logical conclusion to what they've been actively calling for every time some deranged nutter whigs out. A friendly media can make a significant difference.

Fuck Aimless.........you are not making me happy!!



The fact the NYPD is contemplating confiscations speaks volumes.........really nothing more needs to be said.





Some people always say "oh no, this could never happen in America".

Uh-huh.

Its not the MSM I'm talking about.

How many of us actually get our "news" from them? Most of us know alternate sources to get information from that isnt from the MSM.
How many days of out and out fighting would have to happen before it was a headline on Drudge?
The US Marine Corps determined during the battle of Hue in 1968 that to take a building from dedicated defenders, you needed 5 attackers per determined defender.
5 to 1 is what was needed in Vietnam.
What do you think will be needed to take firearms by force from peoples homes?
How days in a row with multiple call outs do you think SWAT/TAC teams will be able to respond and handle barricaded gun owners in their own homes?

I'm not kidding when I say it wont take four weeks for any sort of confiscation to cease.

Jails and Prisons are already overcrowded. You planning on slapping every resistant gun owner in jail....that'll overload the system right stupid quick.
When every single full duty police officer is busy with the door to door confiscating guns......do you think the day to day crimes that police deal with will stop because the cops are busy elsewhere?
Do you think the common criminals, (you know, everybody BUT law abiding gun owners) will stop doing what they do while the police are busy elsewhere?

For the poster who stated confiscations wont come from the police but from FEMA and from the Military....

According to this article, in Aug. 8 2005, FEMA stated it had a total work force of 20,287. Even if it grew 100% larger every year since then, it would currently amount to a total work force of 142009, roughly 5.6 times LESS than all of the full time LEO's. So they aint getting it done.

As far as the military goes....Where are they going to come from?
You cant go using Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airman from bases local to the areas you want to confiscate guns from, they have ties to the locals. You'll get less than optimal results.
You cant go using the Reserve Units local to the area, because they ARE the local populace you're trying to disarm.
So now you're stuck with transporting units from other areas to a new one to go confiscate firearms.....that's going to be a logistical nightmare. And you're still not going to get optimal results.

You would immediately cause an insurgency.
And an insurgency with the backing and support of the local population and most likely composed by the local population is not going to be beaten easily.
Most likely, not at all.

Think the MSM will be able to pull a Bagdad Bob and deny Military forces on the ground, going house to house?
Think they'll be able to deny the fighting and insurgency gun confiscations would cause?
At that point, for them to do so would mean they would have to be completely state run and at that point, and we're now Venezuala North instead of America.

I want to be absolutely clear... I'm not advocating anything with this post or my previous post on this page.

I'm just pointing out why door to door confiscation cannot physically happen.

UN peacekeepers could be brought in to implement the confiscations. Troops from the Congo, France, Belgium, Germany, China, Russia etc etc etc could be tasked with going door to door and searching every home for contraband weapons.

It will never come to that but if it did I'd find out where the Belgian units were and pay a visit. I want me a para SAW  

That's true, and bad. But there were probably some redcoats who carefully fired over the colonists and got drilled for their trouble anyway. If you continue to wear the uniform of an agency bent on destroying civil rights, bad things may happen even if you're a good guy.

And you'd have folks who normally wouldn't shoot at cops or our military willing to shoot at foriegn troops with no problem.

Yeah... this.

If foreign troops step on US soil, you're gonna start seeing fertilizer sell outs everywhere, if you know what i mena.

Your screen name is not fitting

on U.S. soil?   yeah, that would constitute an invasion to me. I'm sure people would act accordingly.

Yeah, that would kinda change the whole game.  

At that point it's basically become Matt Bracken's "Foreign Enemies and Traitors" and we should behave accordingly.

When cops aren't scared to shoot Granny on the porch, and plant a gun on her, I don'tbelieve.

When cops aren't scared to admit that they plant coke on people to make quota, I don't believe.

When cops aren't scared to hold checkpoints, on TV, and confiscate valuables because  they could be involved in drug trade, I don't believe.

When cops aren't scared to gun down a Preacher getting a cup of coffee, in broad daylight, I don't believe.


The biggest reason I don't believe: Where I live, the Sheriff has made MANY statements in the media about how he doesn't care what the law says, he WILL confiscate/ arrest folks carrying weapons in a manner he personally doesn't like.

Lots of drama being posted here, but I figure if someone came knocking on MY door asking to see my firearms, I politely respond that I sold them all long ago, legally, and did not keep any records of the sale as I am not required to. Besides, a mandatory seizure would be the start of the 2nd civil war and accompanying economic collapse. All bets are off at that point. Remember that even in Canada, the government attempted to enforce mandatory registration of long arms and they spent $2B before they gave up because too few complied.

Sheriff Brown is a walking, talking, diseased penis.  Fuck him.

I live in a "half-rural" county.  The Sheriff is the issuing agency for our Concealed Handgun Licenses.  Since our CHL law passed, we've had an independent and a Democrat for Sheriff.  Both fell all over themselves, saying how much they are pro-gun.  It's the only way to get elected out here.

Best post in this thread.

We got LEOs here who are died in the wool 2nd Amendment supporters, and we just can't find enough guys to say how they're going to "shoot 'em all."  

'Dabled.  All of 'em.

Thank you......it can be frustrating and sometimes I get caught up and spout off in posts and say things I shouldn't.


There is no doubt that there are anti-2A cops, I work with a few........very few.  But, that varies from region to region and department to department.......we are a mirror image of the rest of our society, and everyone has an opinion.  There is no doubt that the ones that are anti-2A would love to see an "ban" and would want to go and confiscate weapons.  Keep in mind: 99% of the anti gun cops are not "gun guys" and usually are not tactically proficient........as a firearms instructor I can attest to this fact.  I can also attest to the fact that I have no doubt in my mind that if they wanted to send our SWAT team to go conficate guns, that they would end up with a pile gear at their feet.  


I have recently met with every single school principal about security measures at our schools, they always bring up "gun control" and "banning assault weapons", I have religiously defended 2A rights to them, and have actually swayed a few to listen to my argument.  In fact, some of the teachers I have gave presentations to at our elemetary schools regarding school security were receptive about possibly arming them.........school district wont allow it though at this time.  I'm actually working on "volunteers" who are willing to provide armed security for our kids, because the school district wont pay for it.  Several people have come forward, one retired cop and 2 retired Marines who I know very well have "offered" up some of their time to be an armed hall monitor.  

......hearts and minds.