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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:20:15 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe MP’s would garner some tactical training? But definitely not artillery, infantry and armor units Well incorporating artillery and engineered obstacles to steer them to minefields would give military training value. 
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:21:23 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guard has MPs. They just sent a bunch to the baltics to actually do MP shit for the first time in anyones guard career. Guard MPs were doing MP shit in Iraq, like route recon and convoy security. My old PD Captain did that. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:26:53 PM EST
[#3]
When their orders are to stand down and do nothing, he's kind of right I guess.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:27:04 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well incorporating artillery and engineered obstacles to steer them to minefields would give military training value. Most definitely no illegals aren’t getting blown up, shot or corralled into minefields under a Biden administration |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:27:17 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guard MPs were doing MP shit in Iraq, like route recon and convoy security. My old PD Captain did that. They were doing garrison MP shit in the baltics on NATO bases. I'm not saying they enjoyed it...I'm just saying it's the first time in an E-7s career that he was writing speeding tickets. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:29:11 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, if they're actually allowed to conduct an LE mission which I am doubtful of. Yep |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:44:10 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? But when all they do is gather the illegal groups up and prep them for processing and release they are not really doing anything useful or protecting the border. Do they even have ammo? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:47:40 PM EST
[#8]
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:54:41 PM EST
[#9]
GD…..where reading is for faggots.
 Same as it ever was. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:57:28 PM EST
[#10]
He ain't wrong.
We don't have the Navy patrol the coasts. We have the (military) Coast Guard do that. Borders should be guarded by a militarized Border Guard, not dudes with GS-levels. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 3:59:26 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect there isn't a country anywhere in the last hundred years who has even contemplated invading the US. Part of that is undoubtedly because of our military, but even if they were to succeed, occupying us would be impossible. There are 60 million invaders currently occupying the US and getting paid to do it . They rape rob and murder Americans everyday with the help and support of the current government |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:00:43 PM EST
[#12]
If they changed ROE it could provide military training value
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:00:59 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:05:33 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m surprised by the characterization as most of the personnel I knew who went on border duty liked it. I don’t recall any complaints Rank and file soldiers and airman WANT to do the hard things and what they signed up for. The idiot leaders, not so much at times. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:07:13 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As they’re currently being used, there is zero military value or reason for them to be there. in before the inevitable fs self back patting session |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:16:00 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d'être of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:16:40 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's exactly the argument that he's making. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is the role of the military again? He's probably not wrong. That's exactly the argument that he's making. I agree. No point in being there unless they can do their jobs. And that job should not be to set up tents and provide meals to these invaders. From my understanding is that alot of them do not even carry weapons. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:17:49 PM EST
[#18]
If they're letting everyone in anyway then they're not defending anything.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:20:58 PM EST
[#19]
This damn country needs a major reboot to rid us of these fucking viruses called Socialist, democrats and liberal idoits. America is being invaded by foreign enemies and these dumb fucks in charge are standing around with their fingers stuck up their asses acting stupid. Use the military, reserves and guard to defend our country. No matter what it takes to stop these foreign invaders.
Otherwise gtf out if the way and the American people will secure that border in a week. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:24:21 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d'être of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d'être of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? Maybe you should check the website: The chief of the National Guard and the National Guard Bureau ensure proper training, equipping and manning of the Army and Air National Guard so they can perform their missions as the primary combat reserve of the Army and the Air Force to fight and win the nation’s wars, protect the homeland and assist communities in times of natural or human-caused disaster. https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/ That traitor is saying his mission isn't to protect the homeland. Traitors also don't recruit well: Calling the Army recruiting shortfall a crisis is like saying that the Titanic had a “small” problem in its crossing of the Atlantic. The Army’s shortfalls, at least six years in the making, are an existential threat to the Army and, by extension, a major threat to our national security. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:26:51 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a just world he would be dishonorably discharged. It's supposed to be, but he sounds more concerned about preparing them for world war 3. When you read the news, it sure seems like it’s going to happen, I can at least understand his concern. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:28:33 PM EST
[#22]
How about desensitizing the troops to killing?
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:29:43 PM EST
[#23]
Why have them there if they aren't actually stopping people from entering? Probably what he means.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:31:00 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:38:58 PM EST
[#25]
What’s the ROE for NG on the border? My guess is they are allowed to act as extra muscle for the cops but have zero arrest powers. Once arrested/detained if the federal government is just cutting illegals loose into the United States like they’ve been doing… then what good is their time away from their families and regular jobs?
Personally I think we should mine the southern border and have shoot to kill orders in place. You either come legally or not at all. The current tactic is to mass hundreds of people to cross one section where BP only has 30-40 officers if that. 10% get caught and 90% evade into the country. This sounds more like a coordinated attack than immigration. But we also aren’t treating it for what it is, |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:39:43 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? But they're only down their for the uni party to pretend like one side is trying to do anything at all about the border. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:41:35 PM EST
[#27]
There is a military value for Ukraine, S. Korea, and Tawain, but nothing for the US.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:45:23 PM EST
[#28]
Fire that ignorant fuck rikki tik.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:45:45 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? I have an old T-shirt from the NG that literally says "Protecting the Homeland for 250 years." |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:51:27 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) I'm happy to talk to you about this, but ditch the attitude and stop pretending I said things I didn't. I didn't say defending the border isn't important. I didn't say marksmanship doesn't count. I did say that there's a lot more to being an infantryman and artilleryman than marksmanship, and I'm correct about that. There's also a lot more to it than fitness and medical. Small unit tactics, immediate actions, basic fucking infantry skills that go way beyond simple marksmanship. Things that apparently you don't know about- that's not a dig, it's okay not to know about those things. Just stop pretending you do. Yes, ACTUAL training IN YOUR MOS for 40 days is better readiness than doing something NOT MOS RELATED 365 days a year. Having been in the infantry on active duty, and also served as a reservist these are things I actually know about. I've been responsible for training 80+ Marines with those 40 days. You are saying things that illustrate that you either have no experience with the infantry or reserve duty or extremely low level experience. It's imperative because that's their mission. Their mission is not LE on the border. That's Border Patrol's mission. This is what the Chief is saying. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:52:00 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d' tre of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d' tre of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? It's those things that get handed out to put on your uniform when you do something good right? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:52:55 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe you should check the website: https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/ That traitor is saying his mission isn't to protect the homeland. Traitors also don't recruit well: Calling the Army recruiting shortfall a crisis is like saying that the Titanic had a "small" problem in its crossing of the Atlantic. The Army's shortfalls, at least six years in the making, are an existential threat to the Army and, by extension, a major threat to our national security. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d' tre of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? Maybe you should check the website: The chief of the National Guard and the National Guard Bureau ensure proper training, equipping and manning of the Army and Air National Guard so they can perform their missions as the primary combat reserve of the Army and the Air Force to fight and win the nation's wars, protect the homeland and assist communities in times of natural or human-caused disaster. https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/ That traitor is saying his mission isn't to protect the homeland. Traitors also don't recruit well: Calling the Army recruiting shortfall a crisis is like saying that the Titanic had a "small" problem in its crossing of the Atlantic. The Army's shortfalls, at least six years in the making, are an existential threat to the Army and, by extension, a major threat to our national security. No, he's saying that his mission isn't LE. Stop the hysterics. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:53:46 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except they aren't. If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. Ok we can let them use 40mm |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:55:01 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." Absolutely correct. National Guard is there but their mission is stupid, because of the ROE, they aren't actually able to do any tasks or "missions" that relate to actual wartime activities. By spending time on a stupid mission, they are deploying NG troops while simultaneously degrading their combat skills. Our field artillery unit spent increasing amounts of time on MOUT training, Riot control, and infantry training after 9/11. That means less time training on artillery-related tasks. If you read between the lines, the general is essentially saying "You are wasting our time and your money with this mission" |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:56:02 PM EST
[#35]
Then he can return all the pay and benefits he has ever received if that is the way he thinks.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:57:15 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, he's saying that his mission isn't LE. Stop the hysterics. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d' tre of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? Maybe you should check the website: The chief of the National Guard and the National Guard Bureau ensure proper training, equipping and manning of the Army and Air National Guard so they can perform their missions as the primary combat reserve of the Army and the Air Force to fight and win the nation's wars, protect the homeland and assist communities in times of natural or human-caused disaster. https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/ That traitor is saying his mission isn't to protect the homeland. Traitors also don't recruit well: Calling the Army recruiting shortfall a crisis is like saying that the Titanic had a "small" problem in its crossing of the Atlantic. The Army's shortfalls, at least six years in the making, are an existential threat to the Army and, by extension, a major threat to our national security. No, he's saying that his mission isn't LE. Stop the hysterics. He has several years of experience pretending to not to see things. That's tough to compete against. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:57:57 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." lol, there’s massive value for military personnel in all of that. Hunting enemy / opponents , tracking, practicing every dismounted maneuver, ambush practice, recon, sniper / hide training, dealing with pows, searches, plus shitloads of security value in keeping out bad people, enemy agents, etc. This is simply more political bullshit / running from responsibilities, protecting the USA, and forcing the constitution to be upheld. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:59:21 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, there’s massive value for military personnel in all of that. Hunting enemy / opponents , tracking, ambush practice, dealing with pows, searches, plus shitloads of security value in keeping out bad people, enemy agents, etc. They are doing very little of that on the southern border. I can guarantee they are not practicing ambush tactics on illegal immigrants. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:59:28 PM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:03:04 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are doing very little of that on the southern border. I can guarantee they are not practicing ambush tactics on illegal immigrants. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: lol, there’s massive value for military personnel in all of that. Hunting enemy / opponents , tracking, ambush practice, dealing with pows, searches, plus shitloads of security value in keeping out bad people, enemy agents, etc. They are doing very little of that on the southern border. I can guarantee they are not practicing ambush tactics on illegal immigrants. I’m saying what could be happening, which is 180* OPPOSITE of what ACTUALLY SHOULD BE HAPPENING. What should be happening is illegals fear crossing the border because a sniper might well shoot their ass, or a mine blow their leg off, or they get arrested and dumped into a prison camp for a year doing hard labor until their 99.9% fuck you, GTFO court hearing notice is mailed to them in 5 sq mile, tent city, immigration detention facility, “ camp sweaty balls “, center of Death Valley. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:03:15 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD…..where reading is for faggots. Same as it ever was. Yep. He says it has no training value, not military value as the title states. He also stated it creates an undue burden, which is correct. The national guard is not designed for enduring nonstop missions, like OLS or OSS, yet they are being cycled nonstop. Both missions offer static employment typically not conducting their core missions by unit or MOS, thus not providing training value. All training time has now been absorbed by a separate mission and units are unable to train and validate in their required tasks. The second order effects of this are no units ready to perform their actual military function, augmentation of active forces with military skill sets during a time of need. He's saying it's not their job to be full time border patrol and he is correct. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:07:22 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He has several years of experience pretending to not to see things. That's tough to compete against. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) Please tell me you've at least heard of a METL. The reason d' tre of the NGB chief is to provide specific types of manned, trained, and equipped forces to the Army and AF and, ultimately, Combatant Commanders. It's literally his job to raise issues that detract from that. And how am I not surprised you found a way to bring Ukraine into this? Maybe you should check the website: The chief of the National Guard and the National Guard Bureau ensure proper training, equipping and manning of the Army and Air National Guard so they can perform their missions as the primary combat reserve of the Army and the Air Force to fight and win the nation's wars, protect the homeland and assist communities in times of natural or human-caused disaster. https://www.nationalguard.mil/About-the-Guard/ That traitor is saying his mission isn't to protect the homeland. Traitors also don't recruit well: Calling the Army recruiting shortfall a crisis is like saying that the Titanic had a "small" problem in its crossing of the Atlantic. The Army's shortfalls, at least six years in the making, are an existential threat to the Army and, by extension, a major threat to our national security. No, he's saying that his mission isn't LE. Stop the hysterics. He has several years of experience pretending to not to see things. That's tough to compete against. Ah, one of those that I don't remember but should.... |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:07:31 PM EST
[#43]
Since they are basically there for visual effect and don't actually guard anything [because they aren't allowed to] or prevent illegals from entering, I think the Chief is 100% correct.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:09:05 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. He says it has no training value, not military value as the title states. He also stated it creates an undue burden, which is correct. The national guard is not designed for enduring nonstop missions, like OLS or OSS, yet they are being cycled nonstop. Both missions offer static employment typically not conducting their core missions by unit or MOS, thus not providing training value. He's saying it's not their job to be full time border patrol and he is correct. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GD…..where reading is for faggots. Same as it ever was. Yep. He says it has no training value, not military value as the title states. He also stated it creates an undue burden, which is correct. The national guard is not designed for enduring nonstop missions, like OLS or OSS, yet they are being cycled nonstop. Both missions offer static employment typically not conducting their core missions by unit or MOS, thus not providing training value. He's saying it's not their job to be full time border patrol and he is correct. Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA.  Because this is how empires / countries die. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:12:22 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an old T-shirt from the NG that literally says "Protecting the Homeland for 250 years." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn't that what the national guard is for, to respond to domestic emergencies such as our Southern border being invaded? I have an old T-shirt from the NG that literally says "Protecting the Homeland for 250 years." Jesus, how old are you? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:12:34 PM EST
[#46]
It sounds to me like he is saying “This is a bunch of bullshit.” I don’t disagree.
Some of y’all are 
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:13:54 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:15:34 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:17:16 PM EST
[#49]
Good retire him right now and move his house within 60 miles of the southern border. Good luck chief.
We don't need a civilian authority with military powers, they already abuse the shit out of the constitution. We're not talking about how shit is supposed to work, count on everything being perverted. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 5:19:08 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'll have the Coasties replace the NG. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why can't DHS do it? They'll have the Coasties replace the NG. Why no Greek Coasties? |
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