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Posted: 4/25/2019 8:43:15 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd rather have an optic that makes picking up the red dot much easier for self defense vs having something that just has a smaller footprint. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 8:47:43 AM EST
[#2]
Oh man... that would be sweet super-low mounted on the TP9.
Gotta find somebody that can do some plastic milling on the top cover.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 8:57:37 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't get how a larger window is gonna help, but I only have experience with an RMR sized window. If you're missing the dot, it's because your eye is too far off from being directly behind the dot. The dot is the same size, so how does a bigger frame around it help? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking about this on the drive in. I want a good red dot for one of my M&Ps ... love the size of the window on my Romeo1, and this might actually be slightly larger than that. Like the size of the R1 with the shroud, which isn’t bad at all. My biggest beef with the RMR was the size of the window- it was too easy for me to lose the dot and have to slew around for it. With work on the drawstroke I can minimize that, but to be “on” I personally really need the larger window. Maybe it’s my monkey arms, I dunno. If these are durable and easy to keep the emitter clean, they’ll sell a ton of them, and possibly one to me if I can find someone to mill my loaded chamber indicator “feature” slide. 
All I know is, this is a great time to have a red dot on a pistol. The larger window helps. Because the optics are relatively parallax-free, so long as you can see the dot in the window and can put it on target, you’ll get a hit. Larger window = covers more of target = more hits. The smaller RMR window means less real estate to see the dot. I’m sure I could have trained through it but with larger-window options hitting the market, I don’t have to. And before anyone says it, I’m excellent with irons... I’m just trying to future proof myself for when my eyes aren’t as good. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:01:22 AM EST
[#4]
Wonder if this will make RMR prices drop. What can dream.
Until then I’ll GBPSE 
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:02:29 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't get how a larger window is gonna help, but I only have experience with an RMR sized window. If you're missing the dot, it's because your eye is too far off from being directly behind the dot. The dot is the same size, so how does a bigger frame around it help? Ever wonder why competitive shooters are looking for the largest window possible? It’s because tenths of a second count and we’re not static in a square bay shooting slowly. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:06:11 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't get how a larger window is gonna help, but I only have experience with an RMR sized window. If you're missing the dot, it's because your eye is too far off from being directly behind the dot. The dot is the same size, so how does a bigger frame around it help? |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:07:52 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I covered that with an improved drawstroke. The larger window helps. Because the optics are relatively parallax-free, so long as you can see the dot in the window and can put it on target and get a hit. Larger window = covers more of target = more hits. The smaller RMR window means less real estate to see the dot. I’m sure I could have trained through it but with larger-window options hitting the market, I don’t have to. And before anyone says it, I’m excellent with irons... I’m just trying to future proof myself for when my eyes aren’t as good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking about this on the drive in. I want a good red dot for one of my M&Ps ... love the size of the window on my Romeo1, and this might actually be slightly larger than that. Like the size of the R1 with the shroud, which isn’t bad at all. My biggest beef with the RMR was the size of the window- it was too easy for me to lose the dot and have to slew around for it. With work on the drawstroke I can minimize that, but to be “on” I personally really need the larger window. Maybe it’s my monkey arms, I dunno. If these are durable and easy to keep the emitter clean, they’ll sell a ton of them, and possibly one to me if I can find someone to mill my loaded chamber indicator “feature” slide.
All I know is, this is a great time to have a red dot on a pistol. The larger window helps. Because the optics are relatively parallax-free, so long as you can see the dot in the window and can put it on target and get a hit. Larger window = covers more of target = more hits. The smaller RMR window means less real estate to see the dot. I’m sure I could have trained through it but with larger-window options hitting the market, I don’t have to. And before anyone says it, I’m excellent with irons... I’m just trying to future proof myself for when my eyes aren’t as good. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:08:22 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks gay Who cares (really) what it looks like as long as it increases the chance of putting lead through a given target? |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:09:54 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I pulled mine out and looked. A bigger window should help let you find it more, you can be further off alignment and see the dot. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier. Size of the dot means little to nothing regarding loss due to misalignment. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:12:36 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I pulled mine out and looked. A bigger window should help let you find it more, you can be further off alignment and see the dot. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:16:37 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It helps during transitions, movement, reaquiring the dot under recoil/slide movement or basically anytime that you’re not shooting in ideal or near ideal conditions. Ever wonder why competitive shooters are looking for the largest window possible? It’s because tenths of a second count and we’re not static in a square bay shooting slowly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't get how a larger window is gonna help, but I only have experience with an RMR sized window. If you're missing the dot, it's because your eye is too far off from being directly behind the dot. The dot is the same size, so how does a bigger frame around it help? Ever wonder why competitive shooters are looking for the largest window possible? It’s because tenths of a second count and we’re not static in a square bay shooting slowly. I got mine when they just came out, found later reviews where they beat the sights to shit and the RMR is far more durable, but for CCW use it should be fine. See worse sights like the Romeo doing duty use successfully. I do also like how much lower they sit and you can change the battery without removing the optic. 
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:20:16 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're conflating 2 different things. Size of the dot means little to nothing regarding loss due to misalignment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yeah, I pulled mine out and looked. A bigger window should help let you find it more, you can be further off alignment and see the dot. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier. Size of the dot means little to nothing regarding loss due to misalignment. I have a 4 MOA and a 8 MOA Shield RMS. Moving around and under recoil, it's faster to pick up the larger dot. Something bigger = easier to see. We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:21:49 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I covered that with an improved drawstroke. The larger window helps. Because the optics are relatively parallax-free, so long as you can see the dot in the window and can put it on target, you’ll get a hit. Larger window = covers more of target = more hits. The smaller RMR window means less real estate to see the dot. I’m sure I could have trained through it but with larger-window options hitting the market, I don’t have to. And before anyone says it, I’m excellent with irons... I’m just trying to future proof myself for when my eyes aren’t as good. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:30:54 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5-6 MOA is perfect for handguns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yeah, I pulled mine out and looked. A bigger window should help let you find it more, you can be further off alignment and see the dot. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:31:12 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're so far misaligned you lost the dot, of course then you have to find it & size of the dot is a factor as well. I have a 4 MOA and a 8 MOA Shield RMS. Moving around and under recoil, it's faster to pick up the larger dot. Something bigger = easier to see. We'll have to agree to disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Yeah, I pulled mine out and looked. A bigger window should help let you find it more, you can be further off alignment and see the dot. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier. Size of the dot means little to nothing regarding loss due to misalignment. I have a 4 MOA and a 8 MOA Shield RMS. Moving around and under recoil, it's faster to pick up the larger dot. Something bigger = easier to see. We'll have to agree to disagree. Not seeing the dot due to misalignment means it doesn't appear in the window regardless of it's size. Not seeing the dot when it's appearing in the window because it's too small of a diameter, not bright enough, etc, is all together different. The bigger sight window addresses, to some degree, the former, it's simple trigonometry. The latter is individual preference that has no basis on window size. I'm not saying anywhere that a larger dot isn't faster for the eye to acquire. It has to be projected in your line of sight for that acquisition to occur. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:31:31 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you even operate bro'? Who cares (really) what it looks like as long as it increases the chance of putting lead through a given target? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks gay Who cares (really) what it looks like as long as it increases the chance of putting lead through a given target? |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:33:22 AM EST
[#17]
I know it's not all about looks but why does it have a damn overbite
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:36:40 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried both a 4 MOA and 8 MOA on a Glock 19, and beyond a doubt the larger dot is easier to pick up. And even the 8 MOA dot is good 'nuff for torso shots at 100 yards. I ain't expecting more than that with a G19. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:38:32 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it's not all about looks but why does it have a damn overbite |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:42:29 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, you're conflating 2 different things. Not seeing the dot due to misalignment means it doesn't appear in the window regardless of it's size. Not seeing the dot when it's appearing in the window because it's too small of a diameter, not bright enough, etc, is all together different. The bigger sight window addresses, to some degree, the former, it's simple trigonometry. The latter is individual preference that has no basis on window size. I'm not saying anywhere that a larger dot isn't faster for the eye to acquire. It has to be projected in your line of sight for that acquisition to occur. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Yeah, I pulled mine out and looked. A bigger window should help let you find it more, you can be further off alignment and see the dot. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier. Size of the dot means little to nothing regarding loss due to misalignment. I have a 4 MOA and a 8 MOA Shield RMS. Moving around and under recoil, it's faster to pick up the larger dot. Something bigger = easier to see. We'll have to agree to disagree. Not seeing the dot due to misalignment means it doesn't appear in the window regardless of it's size. Not seeing the dot when it's appearing in the window because it's too small of a diameter, not bright enough, etc, is all together different. The bigger sight window addresses, to some degree, the former, it's simple trigonometry. The latter is individual preference that has no basis on window size. I'm not saying anywhere that a larger dot isn't faster for the eye to acquire. It has to be projected in your line of sight for that acquisition to occur.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:45:05 AM EST
[#21]
Nice I will have to get one and try it on my CZ-P07 and maybe my Evo SBR that I have a RMR on now. Big window and top loading battery are huge improvements over the RMR. Hopefully the glass isn't as blue tinted which is one of my primary complaints with my RMRs.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:47:05 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The “old reliable” C-more has interchangeable dot modules. 87 zillion USPSA open shooters use them, and damn near all of them settle on the 6 MOA dot. I tried a bunch and liked the 6MOA too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I tried both a 4 MOA and 8 MOA on a Glock 19, and beyond a doubt the larger dot is easier to pick up. And even the 8 MOA dot is good 'nuff for torso shots at 100 yards. I ain't expecting more than that with a G19. Within the context of most contemporary competitive pistol shooting, yeah, 6ish is probably about right. Defensive shooting could probably be double or even triple that and be at or near optimal. Precision shots would be a fraction of it. Lucky for us they gave us a small, medium, and large dot size with this optic so we all get our favorite. I fancy myself a better shooter than I really am, so I’ll probably get a smaller dot.
ETA: with a lot of this, brightness is as, or more important than, dot size. Given these adjust brightness, I’d just as soon get a smaller dot and set it brighter if desired. I can make a small dot more attention grabbing, I can’t make a big dot more precise (though I have had success dimming them to the point I shoot through them semi-transparent at the target). |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:49:10 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We agree then - if you look you'll see I struck out my original post discovering for myself I was initially wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: We agree then - if you look you'll see I struck out my original post discovering for myself I was initially wrong. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:53:31 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had to move the lens forward to get the battery compartment top loading while maintaining RMR mount compatibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know it's not all about looks but why does it have a damn overbite |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:54:15 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The “old reliable” C-more has interchangeable dot modules. 87 zillion USPSA open shooters use them, and damn near all of them settle on the 6 MOA dot. I tried a bunch and liked the 6MOA too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I tried both a 4 MOA and 8 MOA on a Glock 19, and beyond a doubt the larger dot is easier to pick up. And even the 8 MOA dot is good 'nuff for torso shots at 100 yards. I ain't expecting more than that with a G19. Eh, at 25 yards you're talking about a 2" dot vs a 1.5" dot. With a G19 and my eyes I'm not worried about it.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:54:55 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was no 6 MOA option when I bought mine. There was 4 & 8. Eh, at 25 yards you're talking about a 2" dot vs a 1.5" dot. With a G19 and my eyes I'm not worried about it. 
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:56:54 AM EST
[#27]
Meh. I’ll stick with my Rmr type 2’s.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 9:59:58 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the comment I was trying to sort out: I'm happy as can be with a 2 MOA dot (my astigmatism blows any dot up to about 2x actual size in my perception), but would prefer a larger window with less view obstructing structure around it. I'm not trying to bust your balls I just think it's important when describing these characteristics to be specific as they're not immediately apparent to people maybe reading the thread deciding whether to try or buy having never used one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: We agree then - if you look you'll see I struck out my original post discovering for myself I was initially wrong. GD confuses me - there was a thread not too far back about dot size on a handgun. A lot of folks said a small 1 or 2 MOA is great with an RMR and they can find it just fine. Now something with a bigger window comes out, and there's lots of oohs and ahs about finding the dot easier.
If you have trouble picking up the dot on a RDS on a handgun, a bigger window and a bigger dot will help. Selecting dot size is a compromise - smaller for more precision, larger to acquire faster. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:01:32 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
12 MOA is awesome on the shotgun too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There was no 6 MOA option when I bought mine. There was 4 & 8. Eh, at 25 yards you're talking about a 2" dot vs a 1.5" dot. With a G19 and my eyes I'm not worried about it. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:01:59 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe that is the problem it is trying to solve...speed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd rather have an optic that makes picking up the red dot much easier for self defense vs having something that just has a smaller footprint. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:02:15 AM EST
[#31]
Preordrerd the acro, now think I might cancel and goes this route, dang
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:16:48 AM EST
[#32]
Kenzie's Optics has pre-order availability. Just got the email.
$550 https://www.kenziesoptics.com/product-category/reflexholographic-sights/trijicon-reflexholographic-sights/sro-series/ |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:19:49 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it looks like having the rear sight forward of the optic is a no go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it's not all about looks but why does it have a damn overbite |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:22:46 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Preordrerd the acro, now think I might cancel and goes this route, dang |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:25:25 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it looks like having the rear sight forward of the optic is a no go. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:36:43 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never got the idea behind that anyway. What's the advantage? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So it looks like having the rear sight forward of the optic is a no go. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:38:45 AM EST
[#37]
Email from ArmsUnlimited today shows the SRO in stock in 1moa, 2.5moa and 5moa. They also have the Glock MOS plate for it.
Price $495. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:54:21 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't think I would. That thing has an exposed emitter and that hood looks like a shit magnet. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 10:58:28 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kenzie's Optics has pre-order availability. Just got the email. $550 https://www.kenziesoptics.com/product-category/reflexholographic-sights/trijicon-reflexholographic-sights/sro-series/ |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:00:31 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never got the idea behind that anyway. What's the advantage? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So it looks like having the rear sight forward of the optic is a no go. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:04:58 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The “old reliable” C-more has interchangeable dot modules. 87 zillion USPSA open shooters use them, and damn near all of them settle on the 6 MOA dot. I tried a bunch and liked the 6MOA too. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:33:55 AM EST
[#42]
What makes this better than an RMR?
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:35:18 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes this better than an RMR? |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:36:14 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That window size is amazing. Like an updated C-more. Makes the ACRO with it's Terrible Tunnel look dumb. Quote HistoryQuoted:
That window size is amazing. Like an updated C-more. Makes the ACRO with it's Terrible Tunnel look dumb. Quoted:
Looks like it would make a nice little cup to hold water inside a holster. Needs drain holes right at the lens. Quoted:
So, is the emitter still exposed? It looks like still might be...  Quoted:
A day of carry with my current MRDS in my shop ends up with it full of dust. Cant imagine how much debris that will collect in a holster in a field. Does this move the emitter in between two lenses? If not, this is a solution in search of a problem IMO. ETA: nope.... I'm definitely interested to see where this goes, but for pistol/duty use I think I'm going to hold out to see if Ashbury Precision Ordnance is going to start cutting the HK45C for the Acro. If they don't, I'll just go with a Type 2 RM06. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:37:50 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks pretty slick to me. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:40:04 AM EST
[#46]
Quote History
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:45:35 AM EST
[#47]
I like it.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:47:50 AM EST
[#48]
Looks great. It is going on the list.
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:49:18 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same. Idgaf what it looks like, just how it performs. I liked my RMR but wasnt amazed by it and so I sold it a few months back. Waiting on a sub $500 acro... And knowing aimpoint I'll be waiting until hell freezes over but a man can dream lol This seems an improvement over the RMR. But the cup seems like it would fare worse in any emitter-obstructed situation than the RMR. Definitely sticking with my Acro purchase - hopefully the most durable/reliable option available for my backup. |
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Posted: 4/25/2019 11:53:47 AM EST
[#50]
I'm curious to know if it was designed for the gamer crowd, the EDC crowd or everyone.
Guess I'll ask at their booth tomorrow. |
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