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Posted: 12/11/2020 1:55:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sucks for sure. I wear a red light once I'm out of the stand and walking back to the truck. Orange doesn't really work too well in very low light and after dark. I don't know of any animals that would be wearing a red light so figure that should send a pretty good message to anyone else that I am not prey. I had a scare of my own, but in reverse. In Indiana we have 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset. Those of you that hunt know at some points in the season those 5-10 minutes on either side is often when you see some of the most deer activity. When I hunt with a partner we always discuss a meet up time and location, and then call / text if that changes. A few years ago about 20 minutes after sunset, but 10 minutes left in shooting light I saw a dark figure walking towards me across an open field. Not only was it late in the day, it was also overcast, so there were no shadows of any significance to also help with identification. A human being walking straight at you in low light, actually doesn't look all that different than a 4 legged animal walking straight towards you in low light. Given the challenges with depth perception it is hard to tell if that person at 100 yards is really a deer at 200 yards. And remember, not all deer have antlers. Because of the location and time, I did not for a single instant think that it was a person walking towards me. The time was wrong, the direction was wrong, etc. for it to be my hunting buddy. So I raised my rifle and used my scope to ID the target. I IMMEDIATELY determined it was not a deer, but was my hunting partner. So, the whole "ID the target" rule definitely came into play. What my brain initially interpreted as a deer walking towards me at a longer range was actually a person at much closer range. Not that I for an instance can explain what happened in this case, other than the brain can play tricks on you. When you are expecting to see a deer, your brain could process less than perfect information into what you want to see. Just further reiterates that if you are not 100% positive, don't pull that trigger. Spot on interpretation. You brain will fill in your preconceived notions even when wrong. Eyesight, hearing, all of it. The orange, or the light, or a spoken or shouted human voice jangles that wrong perception, |
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Posted: 12/11/2020 1:57:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real question is, will he have him mounted? Comment edited by Taft They should ban you for that. |
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:00:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of them happen at sunrise and sunset. Something moved! It must be a deer! The mistaken for game ones, yes. The other broad category is failures in firearm handling, tripping, not watching muzzle, yanking stuck gun while in brush, not using safety, continuing to use a defective gun, etc. Split off from that is the intentional shots without due regard to back stops or ricochet hazards. |
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:06:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Here's my prototype drawings for my hiking outfit during hunting season...east of the Mississippi River.
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:06:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sucks for sure. I wear a red light once I'm out of the stand and walking back to the truck. Orange doesn't really work too well in very low light and after dark. I don't know of any animals that would be wearing a red light so figure that should send a pretty good message to anyone else that I am not prey. I had a scare of my own, but in reverse. In Indiana we have 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset. Those of you that hunt know at some points in the season those 5-10 minutes on either side is often when you see some of the most deer activity. When I hunt with a partner we always discuss a meet up time and location, and then call / text if that changes. A few years ago about 20 minutes after sunset, but 10 minutes left in shooting light I saw a dark figure walking towards me across an open field. Not only was it late in the day, it was also overcast, so there were no shadows of any significance to also help with identification. A human being walking straight at you in low light, actually doesn't look all that different than a 4 legged animal walking straight towards you in low light. Given the challenges with depth perception it is hard to tell if that person at 100 yards is really a deer at 200 yards. And remember, not all deer have antlers. Because of the location and time, I did not for a single instant think that it was a person walking towards me. The time was wrong, the direction was wrong, etc. for it to be my hunting buddy. So I raised my rifle and used my scope to ID the target. I IMMEDIATELY determined it was not a deer, but was my hunting partner. So, the whole "ID the target" rule definitely came into play. What my brain initially interpreted as a deer walking towards me at a longer range was actually a person at much closer range. Not that I for an instance can explain what happened in this case, other than the brain can play tricks on you. When you are expecting to see a deer, your brain could process less than perfect information into what you want to see. Just further reiterates that if you are not 100% positive, don't pull that trigger. Glassing someone with a rifle where I hunt will get all your privileges revoked immediately. |
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:12:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are fucked in the head. They should ban you for that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The real question is, will he have him mounted? You are fucked in the head. They should ban you for that. muh feelz 
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:17:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Merry Christmas, pops.
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:21:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Inexcusable. and no sympathy for an idiot that would do that. And I just came in from deer hunting.
Judge should make him have his son's head mounted and hang it on the living room wall. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:48:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glassing someone with a rifle where I hunt will get all your privileges revoked immediately. Which is why I now carry binoculars. Really shook me up. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:53:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn. I can't imagine the grief the father must feel. Dumb sob did it to himself. F him. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:55:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He fucking killed his own son. Living with that is infinitely worse than any criminal charges like your "poaching" for shooting after dark offense. He killed his own son because he was a dumbass, poaching by shooting after dark. Entirely preventable. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:55:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Firing through the brush at an unknown target if fucking insanity. What a thing to have to live with for the rest of your life
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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:57:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: As a hunter, gun owner, and father I’ve never understood how the fuck this happens. Are these guys just blindly shooting without even attempting to verify their target? Yes, known as "rustle" shooters, shouldn't be allowed to hunt. 
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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:59:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real question is, will he have him mounted? The fuck is wrong with you? |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:01:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Using a scope to identify a deer is bad practice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: i have never mistaken a human for a deer right? I look through the scope and can see if its a deer. If I can't see its too dark to take the shot. If you can't see the target and make a positive identification don't shoot. seems like a no brainer sad story regardless Using a scope to identify a deer is bad practice. No it isn't. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:04:32 AM EDT
[#16]
how do you mistake your son for a deer?
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:05:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sucks. I don't hunt, but when a hunter looks thru his scope/sights, doesn't he look for his target before shooting? I can't imagine pulling the trigger without seeing my target first.  edit: previous comments answer my question and confirm my thoughts. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:16:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Im surprised drive hunting is legal anywhere. It is outlawed in AZ, but god help you if you find yourself in the woods within 2 hours drive of phoenix during hunting season. Nothing quite like the mix of driving, drinking, and shooting at noises. That sounds like how the French hunt, according to my father. ‘Meet up with your buddies, have some drinks before driving out into the woods, shoot at anything that moves, including your buddies.’ |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:24:47 AM EDT
[#19]
1. I don't know how this happens.
2. Yes, basic rules apply. Know your target and who is hunting around you. I know my to the North of my property which direction his house is and his blind. I avoid those areas even though a bullet would never make it through 10 acres of woods. 3. I dislike hunting public land for this reason. I only hunt upland birds on public land. Deer and turkey on my property. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:25:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real question is, will he have him mounted? |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:25:33 AM EDT
[#21]
Really sad.
I have seen people make some really awful choices in the woods. As a kid I recall a guy wearing a snow camo smock with brown overalls in the PA woods where there is a blaze orange requirement. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:29:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buck fever... Fudds get all hot and bothered then start blasting every little rustle in the bushes. I just don't see how you just point and shoot? I like a good, clean shot with minimal meat damage. Plus, if its going to be getting dark I don't want to track anything. I hate tracking a wounded animal. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 11:42:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A range I used to be a member of would have a day for non members to have a place to sight in their rifles, I think it was $20. Anyway, it was fun and scary to watch some (not all, not most) of these deer hunters. No familiarity with their rifles operation, how to zero, poor shooting fundamentals, random twisting of the scope dials, you name it. Not to mention lots of these guys were continually out of breath doing almost nothing. I'd see some fairly decent rifles, but then they'd have $15 mounts and a $50 scope, for a time of year they looked forward to for 50 weeks. Not surprising that 25% of deer hunters take 75% of the deer every year. Sounds like my range. Watched a father and 2 sons, each north of 250lbs, amble back and forth for an hour sighting in 1 rifle at the 100 yard line, basically screwing all the other shooters who wanted to sight in. One round, meander down, look, walk back, shoot..... repeat. Pretty sure all three were using the same rifle too. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 12:33:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it isn't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i have never mistaken a human for a deer right? I look through the scope and can see if its a deer. If I can't see its too dark to take the shot. If you can't see the target and make a positive identification don't shoot. seems like a no brainer sad story regardless Using a scope to identify a deer is bad practice. No it isn't. It most certainly is. If you need magnification just to identify it, that's what binoculars are for. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 12:46:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He killed his own son because he was a dumbass, poaching by shooting after dark. Entirely preventable. Even without any of us having the details, I totally that he is/was a dumbass and this is preventable. Does slapping him with a misdemeanor really do anything at this point? The guy’s kid is dead. I would have to imagine this guy will never hunt again. In very generic terms, you may be cited for shooting outside of the established legal shooting times. The thought is to change your behavior/follow the law. You think this guy really needs a ticket/charge to remind him of how bad he fucked up and why some of the laws are what they are? |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 12:52:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even without any of us having the details, I totally that he is/was a dumbass and this is preventable. Does slapping him with a misdemeanor really do anything at this point? The guy’s kid is dead. I would have to imagine this guy will never hunt again. In very generic terms, you may be cited for shooting outside of the established legal shooting times. The thought is to change your behavior/follow the law. You think this guy really needs a ticket/charge to remind him of how bad he fucked up and why some of the laws are what they are? Interesting logic Would you use the same if he say, killed his kid while driving drunk? |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 1:03:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's my prototype drawings for my hiking outfit during hunting season...east of the Mississippi River. https://i.gifer.com/SDA6.gif |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 1:22:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even without any of us having the details, I totally that he is/was a dumbass and this is preventable. Does slapping him with a misdemeanor really do anything at this point? The guy’s kid is dead. I would have to imagine this guy will never hunt again. In very generic terms, you may be cited for shooting outside of the established legal shooting times. The thought is to change your behavior/follow the law. You think this guy really needs a ticket/charge to remind him of how bad he fucked up and why some of the laws are what they are? I don’t care, and I don’t feel bad for the dad. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 1:35:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t care, and I don’t feel bad for the dad. I don't either. Stupid people are why we can't have nice things like freedom, or, in the case of this guy's son, life. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 1:57:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting logic Would you use the same if he say, killed his kid while driving drunk? You are changing the fact pattern. If this was an honest (albeit retarded) mistake, I think having to live with it is enough. If there was alcohol involved, as some have insinuated, different story to an extent. Going into the woods with a firearm with the intention of killing something (drunk or sober) is completely different than getting behind the wheel of a car. But I am sure you will disagree...... |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 1:59:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Did the dad use a straightwalled cartridge?" What the FUCK does that have to do with anything? Are you one of the people trying to claim rifles are too dangerous and want to go back to shotgun only? The guy's son is dead, there may have been a couple game violations that led to the shot, it's his fault for taking that shot. He'd be just as dead if hit by a rifled slug as if it was a .350 Legend. I've been hunting deer with straightwall cartridges for 10 years, first handgun and now rifle. I haven't killed anybody. I shoot when conditions are safe, legal and I ask ahead of time if I'm likely to be sharing the woods with anybody. And no, I don't think that makes me immune to an accident. 45-70 is straight walled. 30-30 isn't. 45-70 is very penetrating. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:01:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are changing the fact pattern. If this was an honest (albeit retarded) mistake, I think having to live with it is enough. If there was alcohol involved, as some have insinuated, different story to an extent. Going into the woods with a firearm with the intention of killing something (drunk or sober) is completely different than getting behind the wheel of a car. But I am sure you will disagree...... I would disagree that it was an “honest mistake” He made the choice to pull the trigger, after hours, without verifying his target. An honest mistake would be something like the thread where the farmer ran over the kid who was sleeping in the corn. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:02:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll chime in about the "no orange" comments: -Years ago I lived in the bush in northern British Columbia, where I spent much of the time hunting and trapping. -There was NO "hunter orange" requirement. -I felt perfectly safe. Here's the deal as I see it: Having a "hunter orange" law just gives permission for jackasses to shoot at anything that doesn't look like a pumpkin. Hunting season here runs from mid-August through January. During that time there are plenty of people out and about, doing things OTHER than hunting. On a lighter note: Woman came out to visit Wyoming in the fall. When the lodge owner asked how she was enjoying her stay, she said "Wonderful. You are so considerate of visitors. You make all the drunks wear orange." |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:04:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In our state you would get some assault and manslaughter type charges. Recklessly discharging a firearm when you know or should know based on your required training not to shoot late. I can see ten minutes of usable light on some days. 45 minutes after sunset......it was way too damned dark and orange ceases to standout in the dark. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:05:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would disagree that it was an “honest mistake” He made the choice to pull the trigger without verifying his target. An honest mistake would be something like the thread where the farmer ran over the kid who was sleeping in the corn. Hence the “(albeit retarded)” after the word honest in my post.... You know what I meant, you are just being you at this point. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:07:19 PM EDT
[#36]
That’s like two minutes from my house. Weird I didn’t hear about this. They were hunting in a tiny ass area of woods. Can’t believe there would even be much back there.
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:08:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hence the “(albeit retarded)” after the word honest in my post.... You know what I meant, you are just being you at this point. So, again, tel me how it’s different than driving drunk and killing your kid 1-make a choice to shoot, after hours, without verifying target which results in a death 2-make a choice to drive, intoxicated, which results in a death. They’re both the tragic results of a bad choice. Does someone expressing sorrow or remorse for their bad choice mean they don’t face any further consequences? |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:18:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, he taught his son to hunt with no orange on, he taught his son to walk through the woods at night with no light when his son straight up knew other hunters were in the woods...Do folks really not understand how this happened? They were unsafe people and the logical result eventually occurred. The result doesn't surprise me at all. If they ignored those rules, how much time did Dad spend with Junior on target and backstop identification in Junior's youth. The rules were made for a reason. Disregarding them makes death far more likely. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:24:54 PM EDT
[#39]
In my experience... An old, all knowing, Fudd with bad eyesight scares the shit out of me...
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:38:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's my prototype drawings for my hiking outfit during hunting season...east of the Mississippi River. https://i.gifer.com/SDA6.gif ^ Looks like a rare 3 point buck from whoville. That's a trophy right there |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:40:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, again, tel me how it’s different than driving drunk and killing your kid 1-make a choice to shoot, after hours, without verifying target which results in a death 2-make a choice to drive, intoxicated, which results in a death. They’re both the tragic results of a bad choice. Does someone expressing sorrow or remorse for their bad choice mean they don’t face any further consequences? Discharging a firearm with the intention of killing something -vs- Getting in your car drunk with the intention of (going home, to the store, to a whore house)...... Both choices. Both different intentions. Now tell me how wrong I am again, so we can move on an disagree about the color of grass. Im not sure why I am even entertaining you at this point. Good day sir |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:44:41 PM EDT
[#42]
"father mistook him for a deer"
I'm 100% positive I can't make a good shot on a deer if I can't even see a deer. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 2:56:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heck, my friend and I were on mountain bikes, on a NF trail, when he almost took a shotgun blast to the upper torso / face. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's my prototype drawings for my hiking outfit during hunting season...east of the Mississippi River. https://i.gifer.com/SDA6.gif These days, my bikes have lights, whether it's bright or dark out. Had to order my Exposure SixPack 5000 lumen headlight from the UK 2-3 years ago, but it's awesome! Like vehicle highbeams. In the daytime, I just put it on the strobe mode for visibility, but you can trail ride with this thing at night and light up the trail. I also figured "If something's worth doing, it's worth overdoing", so I paired it with a 5000 lumen helmet mounted Lupine Betty R14  .Also have a daylight bright tail light (Portland Design Works Danger Zone). Maybe I should carry my Imalent DX80 for walking out of the woods at sundown. No way to be mistaken for a deer (unless some moron thinks they're shooting at a UFO).
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:26:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are changing the fact pattern. If this was an honest (albeit retarded) mistake, I think having to live with it is enough. If there was alcohol involved, as some have insinuated, different story to an extent. Going into the woods with a firearm with the intention of killing something (drunk or sober) is completely different than getting behind the wheel of a car. But I am sure you will disagree...... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Interesting logic Would you use the same if he say, killed his kid while driving drunk? You are changing the fact pattern. If this was an honest (albeit retarded) mistake, I think having to live with it is enough. If there was alcohol involved, as some have insinuated, different story to an extent. Going into the woods with a firearm with the intention of killing something (drunk or sober) is completely different than getting behind the wheel of a car. But I am sure you will disagree...... He took an unsafe shot, after hours, and killed his son. Very similar to the idea of driving impaired(taking an unsafe shot) and hitting someone with the car. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:31:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Is there a good reason NOT to wear Orange??
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:32:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t care, and I don’t feel bad for the dad. I feel bad for the rest of the family though. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:32:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Tragic.
There’s no shortage of “hunters” that will shoot at movement or even shoot at sound. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:35:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a good reason NOT to wear Orange?? The only thing that makes me nervous about wearing orange is the potential for some nut job POS to easily see you if he WANTS to shoot someone. That's why I don't hunt public. Some wackjob or PETA activist can shoot a hunter really easy and just walk the fuck away. Nobody would ever know. Fuck that shit. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:58:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Discharging a firearm with the intention of killing something -vs- Getting in your car drunk with the intention of (going home, to the store, to a whore house)...... Both choices. Both different intentions. Now tell me how wrong I am again, so we can move on an disagree about the color of grass. Im not sure why I am even entertaining you at this point. Good day sir It’s clear you’ll never see the connection. But you really think just because he’s sorry or remorseful he should have not other consequences? Plenty of people commit crimes they never meant to and feel sorry and remorseful, they still have consequences. Take the drunk part out off it them. How about a driver who looks down to send a text and crashes and kills someone. I’m sure they will be sorry about it. Should they face no further conseuences? |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 7:54:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Another way to put it-this guy gave every hunter a huge black eye. Antis and a lot of non hunters already think we're careless and shoot anything that moves. Incidents like this show them that sometimes they're right.
After hours, shooting at sound and he killed a man. He would be charged if they weren't family, he should be charged now. |
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