BIDEN: "Put a pistol on a brace, it turns into a gun — makes it more — you can have a higher-caliber weapon, higher-caliber bullet coming out of that gun!" pic.twitter.com/kVIguUATau

Breaking911  (@Breaking911) June 17, 2023

They know damn well what they are doing. They act stupid to pass laws so it seems that way. The end goal is no guns and they do that by trying to get support from people that don’t know about guns by saying lies. I mean they can say all the lies they want. Whats going to happen?

For people who didn't take up the offer to file a form 1, minutiae are all that's left.   Think about it.  Getting an approved form 1 SBR means you don't have to think about anything.  BUIS, vertical foregrip, handstop, red-dot magnifier, LOP, brace, stock, folder, OAL. Build whatever you want, you have blanket immunity in exchange for registering.

For the rest of us, figuring out what configuration keeps it a pistol comes down to the minutia.  

What guidelines do you think their field agents will use if they come across a pistol to evaluate the weapon for being an unregistered SBR?

If I was them I'd be handing out something similar to the feature points list so the field agents don't have to be completely arbitrary.

Everyone has to do whatever they think will keep them from having an unregistered SBR.  Assuming that's the goal.  

We'll know more in time.  Till then I do what I think I need to do and you do what you think you need to.

Or perhaps some just don't care.

Maybe this bullshit convinced people to say "fuck it, it's all just gay, I guess I'll turn everything into an SBR, stamps be fucked"

Minutiae is for bitches

BATFE director already told Congress that they don't want to take this nonsense to court. They are only looking to use it as an add on charge. So we probably won't ever see an SBR charge on a regular guy for just owning one. If we do, they will lose in court. Like a lot of us have been saying, they are probably going to lose in court anyway...

That reminds me, where's that bitch ass DC Lawyer who was lecturing all of us in this thread about how the courts will never be bothered to overturn this?

Unable to access my existing approved Form 1's.  One was approved a year ago and the other about a year before that.  I was able to access them a month ago but now they don't show up and neither do the forms I submitted about a month ago.  I get the buffering circle and then nothing.  Same result with submitted, approved, partially approved and conditionally approved.  I can sign in with no problem, just can't get results.  This has been going on for about two weeks now.  Anyone else seeing this problem?

He should and he also should have downloaded it and stored it in multiple places.

All of mine (even the paper forms) are backed up to no less than 7 locations (online, offline, and offsite).

Sooooo....
I assume it is not lost on any of you the horse shit with Hunter, right?

This clown lied on a 4473, got caught and pleas it down for a pre trial diversion with a dismissal on the 4473 lying charge.

Dudes babbling incoherent hypocritical gun grabbing daddy and his secret service tried to sweep it under the rug.

More gun control!!  Save the kids and the unicorns!!  The braced pistol is an evil demon possessed item that causes instant carnage on its own. The brace makes it more lethal and stronger powered and makes it shoot more from the AR47 clips.

I wonder how many people will get the same kind of deal Hunter got??

FJB FATF FFBI

Biden and his gun grabbin cronies need to just STFU and sit down.

What browser are you using?  Sometimes it dont jive with certain browsers.

Are you logging into the regular site or the pistol brace form 1 site?

Hunter Biden just gets to skate on felony gun charges with no problems? Fuck all of this shit, hard to take any of it seriously any more.

I was at a gun show over the weekend and there was a guy buying extended Glock mags for his new Glock 9mm and new RONI brace. I'm sure he either never heard of the brace rule or didn't care.

I've tried both.  Browser is Chrome and I haven't had problems accessing the site before.  It does let me sign in, just no information available.  BTW, I do have copies of existing approvals and copies of submissions.

It's like I said earlier in the thread.  Most people assume it's legal if you can buy it from a store. It doesn't even cross their mind that combining legal items could make an illegal item, much less simply possessing legal items in proximity that can be combined to make an illegal item.

The thought of it is ridiculous.

Like corn, sugar and yeast....yes the thought of it IS RIDICULOUS!!
Thats about tax revenue as well.
A man should be able to make his own drink!!

And no I dont make my own spirits. Would love to learn but the whole job, bills, time & kids thing. Plus it is ACTUAL LAW (27CFR 19.51) not a "rule"

HJ Resolution 44 was doomed....we knew it.
However we still have the lawsuits. If your so inclined to know how your politicians voted take a peek:
HJ Resolution 44 voting

I've tried searching but apparently I suck at the search feature.

Now that the brace thing is a thing. What happens with glock chassis'? If I remove the brace from one of those can I still rock my glock and mag holder/angled foregrip?

Mock v. Garland 6/23/2023 audio
Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit
Courtlistener: Mock v Garland 6/29/2023 audio

Eta: cort link x2 playback available
https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/23/23-10319_6-29-2023.mp3

PISTOL BRACE UPDATE: 5th Circuit Hear FPC Case

And you believe everything the AFT director says? I do not. Yes, I am certain there will be add on charges. But I do not trust them to not knock on doors of us Domestic Terrorists who love our country and want to protect our children from the Trannys.

Winning!!

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/07/02/federal-judge-vacates-atf-partially-complete-pistol-frame-rule/

pistol braceAWR Hawkins/Breitbart News
AWR HAWKINS2 Jul 202363
A federal judge in the United States District Court Northern District of Texas Fort Worth Division vacated the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF’s) ‘partially complete’ percent pistol brace rule on Friday.

The judge, Reed O’Connor, issued the decision in Vanderstok v. Garland, brought by Jennifer Vanderstok, Firearms Policy Coalition, the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), and others.

The ATF used its pistol frame rule to redefine “partially complete pistol frames” as “firearms.” But Judge O’Connor stressed that such a redefinition is up to Congress, rather than a federal agency. Moreover, O’Connor noted, “Because Congress did not define “frame or receiver,” the words receive their ordinary
meaning.”

He also stressed, “Final Rule’s amended definition of “frame or receiver” does not accord with the ordinary meaning of those terms and is therefore in conflict with the plain statutory language.”

O’Connor also pointed out that “weapons parts are not weapons.” He then vacated the ATF final rule.


File/A MCK pistol brace for a handgun is displayed with firearm accessories for sale at the Crossroads of the West Gun Show at the Orange County Fairgrounds on June 5, 2021 in Costa Mesa, California. (PATRICK T. FALLON/AFP via Getty Images)

SAF founder and executive vice president Alan Gottlieb commented on the decision, saying, “With this decision, the court has properly struck down ATF’s rule and ensured that it cannot enforce that which it never had the authority to publish in the first place.”

The case is Vanderstok v. Garland, No. 4:22-cv-00691-O, in the United States District Court Northern District of Texas Fort Worth Division.

AWR Hawkins is an award-winning Second Amendment columnist for Breitbart News and the writer/curator of Down Range with AWR Hawkins, a weekly newsletter focused on all things Second Amendment, also for Breitbart News. He is the political analyst for Armed American Radio and a Turning Point USA Ambassador. He was a Visiting Fellow at the Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal in 2010, a speaker at the 2023 Western Conservative Summit, and he holds a Ph.D. in Military History, with a focus on the Vietnam War (brown water navy), U.S. Navy since Inception, the Civil War, and Early Modern Europe. Follow him on Instagram: @awr_hawkins. You can sign up to get Down Range at breitbart.com/downrange. Reach him directly at [email protected].

So are 40 million Americans felons now or not?

Always were.

Yep. That’s a feature, not a glitch.

About fucking time the NRA decides to do something besides shop for more suits for wayne.  you would have thought they would be the first to the party but as typical they are holding up the rear.

Can we get a synopsis without the clickbait needledick youtube guy trying to fluff it up?

When the judge denied cert to the NRA trying to piggyback onto the SAF injuction, the judge told them to file their own.  So the NRA did with all the lastest court rulings as lessons learned.

Welcome to the party I guess?

The only reason they are doing ANYTHING is because they could not get enjoined on the SAF injunction.

Did the NRA sue or did the Brewer firm sue on their behalf? It's an important distinction because they've lost virtually every case for WLP and have no 2A experience. They appear to be getting wealthy trying to keep WLP out of jail and could care less about the NRA.

https://nraindanger.wordpress.com/2023/06/30/brewer-law-firm-loses-another-one/

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/06/nras-impressive-record-of-defeat/#axzz85x1osVE4

The NRA is currently spending significantly more money on Brewer Attorneys & Counselors, the single law firm defending the corrupt actions of the Association’s “leadership,” approximately one-third of the Association’s total annual budget. These legal and PR costs have been growing exponentially over the past three years. To be clear, this is not money going toward defense of the Second Amendment, competitions, range development, or educational work. This money is being spent to defend against disturbingly valid charges of corruption, cronyism, and self-dealing among top NRA executives.


To put this into perspective, the NRA has cut its spending on Education and Training by over $100 million, from $176 million per year to only $75 million. Meanwhile, in 2022 the Association paid the Brewer firm over $60 million – more than twice the total annual revenue of all other national gun rights organizations combined.


Along with the NY AG suit, the Brewer firm represented the NRA in suits against the Association’s former PR company, Ackerman McQueen, which apparently not coincidentally, was founded and headed by Mr. Brewer’s estranged father-in-law, Angus McQueen. They eventually settled those suits with a payment of $12 million from NRA to Ack-Mac.


Brewer was also in charge of a First Amendment “restraint of trade” suit against the state of New York, which Wayne LaPierre reported in 2020, had cost the Association over $100 million. They lost that suit and have now appealed the decision.

I don't like the NRA dragging their feet but don't forget they picked up a huge tab $ in the FART lawsuit with 20 state AGs in ND that is moving at a snail pace.

Was there a thread on the restraint to trade lawsuit? I never saw anything about it.

It's too bad krpind isn't around anymore to keep us up to date on this stuff.

It seems to me that instead of being first to the party they're the last.  They join the party when it looks like it's going to be a success and then they can claim the win.

Nobody seems interested anymore.

Anything new?

Nope. It’s going to sit another two em years while both sides charge clients for work they’re not doing and the few people who applied for SBR stamps enjoy their ‘legal’ toys.

GOA member, relax.  The rest of you may be Felons now.

Does this surprise you?

Hmmmmm

Yep digital and hard copies

Yup. I got all my forms back, so my SBR collection went from a few to almost 40. *shrug*

Federal Appeals Court Denies ATF’s Request to Stay Decision Tossing ‘Ghost Gun’ Ban

The ATF will not be allowed to enforce its attempt to redefine what counts as a firearm while it appeals a lower court ruling.

On Monday, a three-judge panel for the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals denied the agency’s request for a stay in VanDerStok v. Garland. The ATF was hoping to see a lower court decision vacating its rule on unfinished frames and receivers put on hold. That way it could continue regulating the parts, which are often used to build homemade firearms or “ghost guns” as President Joe Biden often labels them.

“Because the ATF has not demonstrated a strong likelihood of success on the merits, nor irreparable harm in the absence of a stay, we DENY the government’s request to stay the vacatur of the two challenged portions of the Rule,” the panel wrote in a per curiam opinion. “This effectively maintains, pending appeal, the status quo that existed for 54 years from 1968 to 2022.”

The unsigned opinion deals yet another blow to the Biden administration’s attempt to enact gun control by executive action. It signals that the Fifth Circuit is likely to cast a skeptical eye toward the ATF’s ability to broadly interpret longstanding federal law to cover novel areas of gun policy. That could have far-reaching ramifications beyond unfinished gun parts for everything from bump stocks to pistol braces.

...

Let's hope this gets it done and gone for ever.

So, the ATF must be slow on the filings. Just got 3 that are now listed as submitted. All the other ones came through right away.

I waited until the last minute to do these. And I expect a few to get denied, based upon who applied

I needed the making for a suit but now I am curious what the deal is.

I have the exact same problem.  Log in works fine, It lets me select the form under pending but shows zero forms in the listing.  I sent a ticket to them and they replied back that they can see them in pending on their end.  They didn’t offer any help as to why the system isn’t displaying them on my end.

Have you tried different browsers,

Recent Chrome updates (which would apply to Edge also) have caused issues for some sites.

Maybe try Firefox if you haven't already.

Just a thought.

Are you logging into the correct eforms site? It should be the regular one not the pistol brace one.

https://eforms.atf.gov/login