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I'm not discounting it as UKRAINIAN PROPAGANDA, I just don't put much stock in it.
If things are going so well, why is Ukraine demanding more and more equipment to replace the stuff they lost in battle? I don't doubt that Russia would refurbish some old junk, just like Ukraine has done. They don't have uncle sugar to supply them after all. This is a good example of why Russia is not really a threat to NATO, and why we don't need to get involved in every conflict between corrupt nations on the other side of the world. |
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Quoted: The US troops killed by Russians in Vietnam and Korea disagree. View Quote The Korean Civil War we forced ourselves into was 73 years ago in a county no one had heard of on the far side of the world. Maybe we should start blasting Japs and Germans again from just a few years prior? Sad. Two of the most pointless American meat grinder conflicts brought to us by corrupt Democrats, the military industrial complex, and our Dulce bellum inexpertis – “War is Sweet to Those Who Have Never Experienced It” |
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Quoted: I believe it's because the book of Revelation is full of symbolism. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Just an observation, but did anyone ever wonder why the armies in the Book of Revelation are on horseback? Food for thought. I believe it's because the book of Revelation is full of symbolism. My understanding as well. That said there very well could be horses there. This army will be massive and include many middle eastern nations. Some chance there may very well be some cultural importance for some nations to uses real horses on their final quest to wipe israel off the map. Also could be that the increase of EMP devices on the field actually brings back some limited uses of some militaries keeping back up contingencies. Who knows. Ive noticed in Ukraine...the amount of digital warfare could bring some kind of strategy to local EMPs that wipe out digital signals . What if one could enable a device that crippled all digital devices while they still had the ability to take ground? World is changing so fast its hard to know what's possible even next month. |
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To refurbish something, does it have to be furbished to begin with?
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Quoted: I'm not discounting it as UKRAINIAN PROPAGANDA, I just don't put much stock in it. If things are going so well, why is Ukraine demanding more and more equipment to replace the stuff they lost in battle? I don't doubt that Russia would refurbish some old junk, just like Ukraine has done. They don't have uncle sugar to supply them after all. This is a good example of why Russia is not really a threat to NATO, and why we don't need to get involved in every conflict between corrupt nations on the other side of the world. View Quote You are going to take much more losses in offensive operations than on the defense. That's just how war is. So naturally their losses rise as they take back their ground. 1. For one thing, on defense, and with the exception of artillery adn air emplaced scaterable mines, you KNOW where the minefields are. Not so on the attack. 2. On defense you can chose the terrain and dig in. On offense the enemy chooses the terrain and you aren't dug in. 3. On defense you are supported by counter-mobility efforts such as tank ditches and blown bridges. On offense you are hindered by them. 4. On defense you site your positions to mutually support each other, you can have range cards to likely avenues of approach, and you can have on on-site survey of your fire support plan targets. On offense your enemy has those things and you are forced to work from maps and aerial photography. |
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Quoted: Can you post Russia’s goals and expectations when they invaded Ukraine in feb 2022 for perspective? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, Russia is out of tanks, they're out of missiles, they're out of artillery, they can't make drones because they can't get components, the sanctions have crippled their economy, most of their army has been killed, Ukraine's Spring offensive is going to take Crimea, and the revolt will depose Putin. Looks like Russia will fold any day now. Can you post Russia’s goals and expectations when they invaded Ukraine in feb 2022 for perspective? I couldn’t care less what Russia’s goals and expectations regarding Ukraine are. I couldn't care less where the line on the map between Russia and Ukraine is. It’s not worth a single American Taxpayer’s Dollar or a single American life. |
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Quoted: This picture of object 279 was passed around early on in the war. The claim was its a new Russian super tank. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/maxresdefault-8-2913987.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Wake me when they pull out the land battleships, the T-35 and smaller T-28 out. Neat if they pulled out any surviving T-26 and BT-7s. All the aforementioned tank belong in museums. The T-35 barely got out of Moscow to fight the Germans in 1941 when they broke down. Soviet Stronk! This picture of object 279 was passed around early on in the war. The claim was its a new Russian super tank. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/maxresdefault-8-2913987.jpg Was that in the big thread? |
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Quoted: Russia hasn’t been able to take on the West in over 30 years, false statements come easily to scammers. View Quote Both sides look unimpressive to be fair; Russia is struggling heavily against a failing state right on its border, a decrepit country with a GDP per capita lower than the likes of Guatemala and Iraq. While the West, coming fresh off a 20 year loss to a 50,000 man militia supported by Pakistan, is unable to defeat Russia despite a combined GDP of 40 trillion and sending more aid to Ukraine in 18 months than the Allies sent the Soviet Union during WW2. |
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Quoted: Both sides look unimpressive to be fair; Russia is struggling heavily against a failing state right on its border, a decrepit country with a GDP per capita lower than the likes of Guatemala and Iraq. While the West, coming fresh off a 20 year loss to a 50,000 man militia supported by Pakistan, is unable to defeat Russia despite a combined GDP of 40 trillion and sending more aid to Ukraine in 18 months than the Allies sent the Soviet Union during WW2. View Quote LOL the West is the most destructive war machine in the history of the planet. Your post reeks of self-loathing (oh… Canadian… that explains a lot). |
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Quoted: I expect a major reason for reactivating the antiques is they're armed in a different caliber (100mm, 115mm) than the modern tanks (125mm), and that they've burned through most of their 125mm and want to be able to tap into ye olde ammunition stockpiles. The Ukrainians have been knocking the piss out of Russian artillery and ammo dumps, they've gone from a crippling 20-to-1 disadvantage in artillery fire to parity to the Russians crying about being at a 2-to-1 disadvantage or worse. Despite all the (legitimately concerning) talk about constrained NATO 155mm production it smells like Russia is maxxed out first. View Quote Where do you people get this stuff? |
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Quoted: This isnt 1917 and RUS hasn't hit 500,000 in casualties yet. 500,000 lost is their par for the course. Until they double that, no one is gonna care. We have no business there, heres a few reasons 1. Not a NATO country 2. Biden's involved there with corruption 3. We don't have the money to spend View Quote #1, true. But neither was Kuwait or Grenada or Panama. #2, the whole world is corrupt. #3, doesn't matter. Russia, for decades funded 5th columnists. The black panther party, the weathermen, all these groups paved the way for BLM and antifa. Destroying Russia with our old stuff is a once in a lifetime deal. |
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Given the age of these tanks its possible some newly drafted mobik could be assigned to the same model of tank his father and grandfather crewed.
Given current Russian policies regarding the age rage of the people being pressed into service it's possible they could all three end up in the same crew on the exact same dammed old rust bucket built in the 70s. They will all have the same war story. |
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Quoted: That isn't currently true at all. Ukraine has top tier intelligence provided by NATO countries as well as quite a bit of weaponry. I don't know that anyone thought Russia was top tier equipment-wise. I've seen the welds on their equipment from tanks to apcs and they look like a 4th grader on a farm in the wind did them as a fast fix. That being said, I think they are winning the war of attrition people-wise and Ukraine will eventually run out of people to operate much of anything. I agree Ukraine is the underdog, but as far as their military budget, it has to be the most spent in any calendar year on anyone's miltary if you tally up all they have supposedly been gifted this year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/ That is a decent total of aid sent their way and not too far off from the Russian military budget. That doesn't count the most important aid of all they are getting from the west, which is the intelligence. In this kind of war that seems to be the most important piece. Neither side can move without the other one knowing or having time to react in some way it seems. View Quote People talked a big game about Russian EW capabilities, and how they had all these fantastic things that would jam everyone's comms and they'd own the battlefield. Then these guys send in paratroopers with beofengs. |
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Quoted: The Korean Civil War we forced ourselves into was 73 years ago in a county no one had heard of on the far side of the world. Maybe we should start blasting Japs and Germans again from just a few years prior? Sad. Two of the most pointless American meat grinder conflicts brought to us by corrupt Democrats, the military industrial complex, and our Dulce bellum inexpertis – “War is Sweet to Those Who Have Never Experienced It” View Quote I think that "forcing ourselves into" is a bit of a stretch. Was it a core defense interest of the US? Who knows. I think the best book on it I've read from the American side was Millet's "A House Burning: The War for Korea 1946-1950." There have been a couple of books from the Chinese perspective, and Mao's intervention was about deeply thought out as other interventions, which is to say, not well thought out. |
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Quoted: Both sides look unimpressive to be fair; Russia is struggling heavily against a failing state right on its border, a decrepit country with a GDP per capita lower than the likes of Guatemala and Iraq. While the West, coming fresh off a 20 year loss to a 50,000 man militia supported by Pakistan, is unable to defeat Russia despite a combined GDP of 40 trillion and sending more aid to Ukraine in 18 months than the Allies sent the Soviet Union during WW2. View Quote When you write it like that, it sounds bad. |
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They aren't having Kursk size tank on tank battles in Ukraine. For what they will be used for they will work fine. The biggest threat to Tanks in UKr are mines and they don't care how much the tank costs ..
At least they kept them and have them available ........while we turned prob thousands of perfectly good M60A3 into artificial reefs and range targets or gave them away.. |
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Quoted: I think that "forcing ourselves into" is a bit of a stretch. Was it a core defense interest of the US? Who knows. I think the best book on it I've read from the American side was Millet's "A House Burning: The War for Korea 1946-1950." There have been a couple of books from the Chinese perspective, and Mao's intervention was about deeply thought out as other interventions, which is to say, not well thought out. View Quote Mao had whole formations of surrendered formerly Nationalist troops that he was more than willing to grind up in human wave assaults. |
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Quoted: This isnt 1917 and RUS hasn't hit 500,000 in casualties yet. 500,000 lost is their par for the course. Until they double that, no one is gonna care. We have no business there, heres a few reasons 1. Not a NATO country 2. Biden's involved there with corruption 3. We don't have the money to spend View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: This isnt 1917 and RUS hasn't hit 500,000 in casualties yet. 500,000 lost is their par for the course. Until they double that, no one is gonna care. We have no business there, heres a few reasons 1. Not a NATO country 2. Biden's involved there with corruption 3. We don't have the money to spend We have every business there. Russia does not. Biden also has corruption here. Going to abandon the USA? Quoted: More western media propaganda for the Ukraine Bros How is it false? Russia was using T62s as early as may of last year. Quoted: I'm not discounting it as UKRAINIAN PROPAGANDA, I just don't put much stock in it. We already have documented use of T62s in May of 2022. We also have documented use of T55s from months ago. Quoted: If things are going so well, why is Ukraine demanding more and more equipment to replace the stuff they lost in battle? Because war grinds through equipment fast. It's not a hard concept, it's a simple one you fail to grasp. Quoted: I don't doubt that Russia would refurbish some old junk, just like Ukraine has done. They don't have uncle sugar to supply them after all. This is a good example of why Russia is not really a threat to NATO, and why we don't need to get involved in every conflict between corrupt nations on the other side of the world. Ukraine isn't an alleged world power able to push back against Nato and the west. Russia tried to pull a western style lightning war with their tier 1 dudes early on. How did that turn out? Quoted: If a whole shipment looked like that, would they have even bothered sending it in the first place given their strained logistics system? Probably not, just sent it to the front anyways. |
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Quoted: They aren't having Kursk size tank on tank battles in Ukraine. For what they will be used for they will work fine. The biggest threat to Tanks in UKr are mines and they don't care how much the tank costs .. At least they kept them and have them available ........while we turned prob thousands of perfectly good M60A3 into artificial reefs and range targets or gave them away.. View Quote Nobody who is winning their war breaks out tanks that belong in a museum and thinks "Yes, we are winning!". These are being used as actual tanks, not just artillery. There was a video from a little while ago where Russians used a T62 to advance along a street with infantry behind it. The tank got hit and brewed up instantly and the infantry fled. People can say "oh, they won't be used like tanks" but the dudes at the front will absolutely use it as a tank. |
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Russia thought so too after watching Biden's disastrous Afg withdrawal. Quoted: Where do you people get this stuff? From Russian soldiers themselves. The canned Russian general popov had the same issues. |
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It's a bluff to fool the gullible west, soon T14 will arrive and Kiev will fall in 2 maybe 3 days.
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Both sides are utter failures.
Similar to the Iraqis Ukraine fails even with western equipment and western intelligence. Just a big soup of failure all around. |
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Quoted: It was. Then someone knew what it was and then we knew the truth. All of it was done without anyone insulting or raging on another. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Was that in the big thread? Seems an idiotic thing to argue. Extra tracks does not make a super tank. Another reason to avoid the big thread. |
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Quoted: If a whole shipment looked like that, would they have even bothered sending it in the first place given their strained logistics system? View Quote |
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Quoted: With how fast Ukraine has been blowing them up with western anti-tank rockets and drones why? View Quote Very good question. They should have come to the table already. There is no hiding Russian inadequacies now. Putin knows this. So, why then? So, is Putin short circuiting out like Hitler did in early 1945? Is Putin afraid of a military failure in Ukraine that would likey cause him be removed from office? Stripped of his vast fortune as well? Possibly even being killed by a rival inside Russia who is planning on doing that soon? Could be a few other things on his agenda as well. A prelude to tactical nuclear deployment in the end if he is backed up against the wall if you will? Maybe. |
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Quoted: Given the age of these tanks its possible some newly drafted mobik could be assigned to the same model of tank his father and grandfather crewed. Given current Russian policies regarding the age rage of the people being pressed into service it's possible they could all three end up in the same crew on the exact same dammed old rust bucket built in the 70s. They will all have the same war story. View Quote It's not impossible that some newly drafted mobik could be assigned to the same tank his father or grandfather are still in. After Chechnya there were damaged tanks parked in depots with dead crew members still in them and found years later. |
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Wonder if the russkies have Sherman's and Lee tanks stored somewhere undergoing restoration too?
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T54/55/62 would all work for infantry support, especially if they manage to stick decent thermals in them.
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Quoted: They will end up being used as tanks and in direct fire roles because that’s what happened earlier with the t62s. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: T54/55/62 would all work for infantry support, especially if they manage to stick decent thermals in them. They will end up being used as tanks and in direct fire roles because that’s what happened earlier with the t62s. Wouldn’t surprise me. If it looks like a tank, Private Snuffy is going to use it like a tank. |
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Quoted: Wouldn’t surprise me. If it looks like a tank, Private Snuffy is going to use it like a tank. View Quote I remember watching a t62 go down a street towards Ukrainian positions with infantry behind it and catch an atgm in the UFP. Caught fire immediately and everyone scattered. In my mind I was saying “well, I told you so” |
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Are these going to Russian Ground Forces units, or the "Separatist" units in the Donbass?
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Quoted: They will end up being used as tanks and in direct fire roles because that’s what happened earlier with the t62s. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: T54/55/62 would all work for infantry support, especially if they manage to stick decent thermals in them. They will end up being used as tanks and in direct fire roles because that’s what happened earlier with the t62s. Or, the Russians will stuff a shit ton of explosives into them and use the tanks has VBIEDs. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/19/russian-suicide-tank-explodes-near-ukrainian-stronghold/ |
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Quoted: The US troops killed by Russians in Vietnam and Korea disagree. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I told ya'll UKR didn't stand a chance with out NATO direct involvement. RUS is just gonna keep throwing old shit and bodies into the meat grinder until UKR runs out of people How did that help the tsar in 1917? People make choices, sometimes hard ones when pushed into things they don’t want to do. There are only so many tuvans and siberians you can throw into the grinder before they riot (and have). This isnt 1917 and RUS hasn't hit 500,000 in casualties yet. 500,000 lost is their par for the course. Until they double that, no one is gonna care. We have no business there, heres a few reasons 1. Not a NATO country 2. Biden's involved there with corruption 3. We don't have the money to spend The US troops killed by Russians in Vietnam and Korea disagree. WE HAD ZERO FUCKING BUSINESS IN NAM Those who made us go there belong in hell for getting all our boys killed, may fuck be opon them |
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Quoted: Seems an idiotic thing to argue. Extra tracks does not make a super tank. Another reason to avoid the big thread. View Quote Keep avoiding the big thread if all you want to do it take a statement like I made earlier about that tank post and turn it into something else. |
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Quoted: Both sides look unimpressive to be fair; Russia is struggling heavily against a failing state right on its border, a decrepit country with a GDP per capita lower than the likes of Guatemala and Iraq. While the West, coming fresh off a 20 year loss to a 50,000 man militia supported by Pakistan, is unable to defeat Russia despite a combined GDP of 40 trillion and sending more aid to Ukraine in 18 months than the Allies sent the Soviet Union during WW2. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Russia hasn’t been able to take on the West in over 30 years, false statements come easily to scammers. Both sides look unimpressive to be fair; Russia is struggling heavily against a failing state right on its border, a decrepit country with a GDP per capita lower than the likes of Guatemala and Iraq. While the West, coming fresh off a 20 year loss to a 50,000 man militia supported by Pakistan, is unable to defeat Russia despite a combined GDP of 40 trillion and sending more aid to Ukraine in 18 months than the Allies sent the Soviet Union during WW2. Lol in no way are we actually engaged, let alone in any way that is equal to how Russia is engaged. We are sending limited quantities of some types of our dated equipment to be utilized by a generally incompetent fighting force. If we went all in to the degree Russia is, it’d be a slaughter. |
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