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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:26:54 AM EDT
[#1]
While it's "glorious" for the jihadi to die in battle, middle class western muslim teens that see this video might think twice before hoping a plane to Turkey to enter Syria.
(And they weren't even hitting ISIS.) |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:28:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Isn't the offensive on Hama schedule for just about now?
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:32:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Speaking of which, I need a box of grid squares...
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:38:27 AM EDT
[#4]
lol. Olly Olly Akbar, motherfuckers.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:41:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, the military should put on patriotic displays like this for us. I'd take my kids to watch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its like 4th a Julau all over again  Yeah, the military should put on patriotic displays like this for us. I'd take my kids to watch. It's called an airshow, the explosions are just pyrotechnics though.... |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:53:30 AM EDT
[#6]
We need to get a thread going of documented russian strikes, munitions used, whos getting fucked up, etc etc
Its gotta be hard keeping track of who's getting the assfucking in the middle east these days. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:20:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Need to consolidate the 4 active threads showing helicopter, atgm, steel rain, and snack bar footage
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:21:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of which, I need a box of grid squares... Get some flight line, while you're at it. I believe the PRC E5 is in charge of that. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:24:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get some flight line, while you're at it. I believe the PRC E5 is in charge of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Speaking of which, I need a box of grid squares... Get some flight line, while you're at it. I believe the PRC E5 is in charge of that. I think you have to file an ID-10T form for that. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 12:18:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It shows they don't have anything that equates to a hushed "Jesus H. Christ" or "Lookit that shit" in their garbage sounding language. 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 12:30:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Good point
It's like testing your stuff against zombies |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 12:48:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot. I've seen first hand how many cluster munitions don't go off when they hit soft sand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Impressive by anyone's count but how did not go off to be found later by some kid? A lot. I've seen first hand how many cluster munitions don't go off when they hit soft sand. And that's OURS which theoreticallly have better QC than the Russian equivalent. I imagine that anywhere thats hit with that munition is going to be hell for EOD for a while afterwards. Quoted:
I guess they haven't figured out counter battery fire yet? That launcher was obvious as fuck at dusk. IF they have any arty left after being attrited for months by airstrikes, the amount of folks who can correctly do the math necessary for counterbattery is probably very low in the country and of those, it's highly doubtful that any of them were nearby with ready arty to make a counterstrike. So... no. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 12:58:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
comes in second to MLRS  Submunitions from MLRS are brutal. The newer Russian Smerch 300mm rockets with Western technology are no joke though. Smerch 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 1:15:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask the Japs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did this kill more jihadis or convince more to show up to the party? Should more show up, no doubt the Russkies would welcome them similarly. "Kill enough of 'em, and they'll stop fighting." How'd that strategy work out for the Russians in Afghanistan? Ask the Japs. I'm guessing you're not referring to the Second Sino-Japanese War... |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 1:19:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Submunitions from MLRS are brutal. The newer Russian Smerch 300mm rockets with Western technology are no joke though. Smerch  http://youtu.be/tvntHazo6hEQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: comes in second to MLRS Submunitions from MLRS are brutal. The newer Russian Smerch 300mm rockets with Western technology are no joke though. Smerch http://youtu.be/tvntHazo6hEThey make some interesting sub munitions. I like the one towards the end that can deliver a drone down range, that's pretty cool. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 1:19:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so why don't we make ours to go off 10-20 minutes after they are fired if they don't go off before then. seems like a great way to get a few more combatant kills as the survivors will be looking for other survivors and trying to salvage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Impressive by anyone's count but how did not go off to be found later by some kid? if you look back on russias tactics in afghanistan .. they made bomblets to purposely look like toys..... just so people / kids would pick them up.... ( at least according to sof mag back in the day).... lots of kids missing limbs. in other words.. the russians dont give a fuck if you get your leg blown off 20 years later... because they really dont give a fuck. no they didn't. that was one of many lies told. the fact is bomblets, because they aren't buried, aren't nearly the problem land mines are. Don't fuck with munitions and you won't get hurt. so why don't we make ours to go off 10-20 minutes after they are fired if they don't go off before then. seems like a great way to get a few more combatant kills as the survivors will be looking for other survivors and trying to salvage. Google DPM. There is no perfect system. Adding a complicated self destruct will just increase opportunities for failure |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 2:52:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BREAK BREAK BREAK ALL STATIONS THIS NET THE SNACK BAR IS CLOSING EARLY LOL. +1 internets for you 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:34:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The arc of history bends towards those who have cluster munitions. I wish I had a bumper sticker that said this. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:54:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryThe Russians used "toy" bombs to deliberately blow off the arms and hands of children..... The same old, tired BS about the PFM-1 mines? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:00:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M270 SPLL (MultipleLaunchRocketLaunchers) AKA Steel Rain.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Aloha snackbar!! Do we have stuff like that ? M270 SPLL (MultipleLaunchRocketLaunchers) AKA Steel Rain.... a buddy was an MLRS guy in Desert Storm. He said they were very effective and the Iraqis were scared shitless after a few barrages. I believe those same Iraqis coined the term "Steel Rain". |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:03:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that's OURS which theoreticallly have better QC than the Russian equivalent. I imagine that anywhere thats hit with that munition is going to be hell for EOD for a while afterwards. IF they have any arty left after being attrited for months by airstrikes, the amount of folks who can correctly do the math necessary for counterbattery is probably very low in the country and of those, it's highly doubtful that any of them were nearby with ready arty to make a counterstrike. So... no. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Impressive by anyone's count but how did not go off to be found later by some kid? A lot. I've seen first hand how many cluster munitions don't go off when they hit soft sand. And that's OURS which theoreticallly have better QC than the Russian equivalent. I imagine that anywhere thats hit with that munition is going to be hell for EOD for a while afterwards. Quoted:
I guess they haven't figured out counter battery fire yet? That launcher was obvious as fuck at dusk. IF they have any arty left after being attrited for months by airstrikes, the amount of folks who can correctly do the math necessary for counterbattery is probably very low in the country and of those, it's highly doubtful that any of them were nearby with ready arty to make a counterstrike. So... no. Who has been air striking them for months? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:12:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Submunitions from MLRS are brutal. The newer Russian Smerch 300mm rockets with Western technology are no joke though. Smerch http://youtu.be/tvntHazo6hEQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
comes in second to MLRS Submunitions from MLRS are brutal. The newer Russian Smerch 300mm rockets with Western technology are no joke though. Smerch http://youtu.be/tvntHazo6hEWestern technology? Please explain? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:24:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think the Russians let the women and kids evacuate before they did that? They just wasted all the kids that might have found any UXO's Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Impressive by anyone's count but how did not go off to be found later by some kid? You think the Russians let the women and kids evacuate before they did that? They just wasted all the kids that might have found any UXO's So you thought "War is Hell" was just something old men tell young men over a beer in a neighborhood bar? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:35:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The same old, tired BS about the PFM-1 mines? Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russians used "toy" bombs to deliberately blow off the arms and hands of children..... The same old, tired BS about the PFM-1 mines? Yeah, you know, the one copied from the US "Dragontooth" |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:39:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But there might be a innocent woman down there. Not anymore. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:49:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I had a bumper sticker that said this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The arc of history bends towards those who have cluster munitions. I wish I had a bumper sticker that said this. That may be one of the most awesome things I ever read... |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:52:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Carpet bombing. Sometimes these people need to be reminded how nice we are (were), by comparing to people who just don't give a crap.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:56:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While it's "glorious" for the jihadi to die in battle, middle class western muslim teens that see this video might think twice before hoping a plane to Turkey to enter Syria. (And they weren't even hitting ISIS.) I think that is at least part of the point. Shock and awe. If they are going to do this they need to go big from the start to convince a lot of fence-sitters that it just isn't worth it. Raise the stakes enormously. That's what is actually needed and the russians certainly aren't worrying about collateral damage. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:11:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that is at least part of the point. Shock and awe. If they are going to do this they need to go big from the start to convince a lot of fence-sitters that it just isn't worth it. Raise the stakes enormously. That's what is actually needed and the russians certainly aren't worrying about collateral damage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
While it's "glorious" for the jihadi to die in battle, middle class western muslim teens that see this video might think twice before hoping a plane to Turkey to enter Syria. (And they weren't even hitting ISIS.) I think that is at least part of the point. Shock and awe. If they are going to do this they need to go big from the start to convince a lot of fence-sitters that it just isn't worth it. Raise the stakes enormously. That's what is actually needed and the russians certainly aren't worrying about collateral damage. You are looking at this through American eyes.This will convince more that they need to go fight Russians. Did TLAMs,JDAMs,Predators,Apaches with Hellfires,DPICM etc etc etc convince jihadis to stop fighting? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:13:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Show of hands, how many of you are aware that this was far from the first time rebels have been hit by cluster bombs?
These more recent videos of Russian bomb attacks are really nothing, in the last four years, about every nasty means of makng war, including chemical weapons(WP and nerve agents), have been used. How do you think once beautiful and lively cities turned into the shitholes they are now? Its not like before the Russians showed up everyone was firing rubber bullets at one another. 
Someone mentioned shock and awe. And we remember how well that worked in Iraq. Only people shocked or awed are those watching YouTube all day. The reality is that Russia isn't doing much more in damage, just more accurate fires, better coordinated. Give me a shout when a regiment of SAA armor and infantry roll in right after one of these barrages. Then it will be time to be impressed. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:17:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are looking at this through American eyes.This will convince more that they need to go fight Russians. Did TLAMs,JDAMs,Predators,Apaches with Hellfires,DPICM etc etc etc convince jihadis to stop fighting? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While it's "glorious" for the jihadi to die in battle, middle class western muslim teens that see this video might think twice before hoping a plane to Turkey to enter Syria. (And they weren't even hitting ISIS.) I think that is at least part of the point. Shock and awe. If they are going to do this they need to go big from the start to convince a lot of fence-sitters that it just isn't worth it. Raise the stakes enormously. That's what is actually needed and the russians certainly aren't worrying about collateral damage. You are looking at this through American eyes.This will convince more that they need to go fight Russians. Did TLAMs,JDAMs,Predators,Apaches with Hellfires,DPICM etc etc etc convince jihadis to stop fighting? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This. A few times govt leaders had come close to throwing in the towel due solely to bombing campaigns. Meanwhile the people themselves are usually more determined and angry then ever, whether that be Brits. Germany, Japan, Vietnam, or even Iraqis. Considering who runs the various FSA rebel groups, ISIS, Al Nusra, and how decentralized that all are, they won't be surrendering anytime soon. Pro Assad forces need to coordinate air attacks and ground assaults, or else is largely a wash. The rebels can suffer the casualties, they have numbers, they'll win a war of attrition. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:25:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I had a bumper sticker that said this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The arc of history bends towards those who have cluster munitions. I wish I had a bumper sticker that said this. More sig line worthy quotes from Sylvan, I would only offer a slight variation "The arc of history bends towards those who USE cluster munitions" 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:32:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The arc of history bends towards those who have cluster munitions. The Japanese and Germans used cluster bombs in WWII. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:37:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's how you do area denial... True area denial is done with M38, M40, BLU-36/B and BLU-59/B bomblets. They used the M218 and XM224 Random Delay fuzes (i.e. they just randomly exploded for hours after arming). Oh, they came in clusters of 655 to 670 for the BLU-36/B and BLU-59/B and 2020 for the M38/M40. These were the ones that I feared finding as an EOD tech, Gators, RAAMS, ADAMS and the rest of the FASCAM required you to do something to cause them to function, these just randomly exploded without any outside influence. This website is a fantastic reference of all things Aviation Ordnance. Back in the 90's I went to Nellis AFB to help sweep the ICM grid at Indian Springs. The Air Force had done a test of dropping CBU's from B-52s, 96 at a time and there were thousands of dud BLU-97 scattered across the lake bed. 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:45:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Japanese and Germans used cluster bombs in WWII. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The arc of history bends towards those who have cluster munitions. The Japanese and Germans used cluster bombs in WWII. So did we. Lots of M-83 Butterfly bomblets, Fragmentation bomblets and metric shit-loads of incendiary cluster bombs. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:51:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blew too many kids hands off after the battles and concerns for collateral effects Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: comes in second to MLRS 12 300mm rockets (BM-30 Smerch) 12 227mm rockets (M270 MLRS) If the Russians can make em accurate, they could seriously put the hurt on someone. ESPECIALLY when you consider max range is nearly TWICE of ours. We no longer use unguided rounds or submunitions I assume because it isn't a nice or kind way to blow people to pieces? Blew too many kids hands off after the battles and concerns for collateral effects Which Russia doesn't give a shit about, and the world press will ignore it. Sigh. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:58:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no they didn't. that was one of many lies told. the fact is bomblets, because they aren't buried, aren't nearly the problem land mines are. Don't fuck with munitions and you won't get hurt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Impressive by anyone's count but how did not go off to be found later by some kid? if you look back on russias tactics in afghanistan .. they made bomblets to purposely look like toys..... just so people / kids would pick them up.... ( at least according to sof mag back in the day).... lots of kids missing limbs. in other words.. the russians dont give a fuck if you get your leg blown off 20 years later... because they really dont give a fuck. no they didn't. that was one of many lies told. the fact is bomblets, because they aren't buried, aren't nearly the problem land mines are. Don't fuck with munitions and you won't get hurt. They looked interesting enough to kids... But if you have kids, you know that doesn't take much. Can't blame the Russians for that. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:00:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So did we. Lots of M-83 Butterfly bomblets, Fragmentation bomblets and metric shit-loads of incendiary cluster bombs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The arc of history bends towards those who have cluster munitions. The Japanese and Germans used cluster bombs in WWII. So did we. Lots of M-83 Butterfly bomblets, Fragmentation bomblets and metric shit-loads of incendiary cluster bombs. Well aware of that. Indian Head Class 19S-80. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:01:53 AM EDT
[#39]
I don't see a problem with this.
Russia doing what needs to be done. Our government in clueless and is supporting the rebels (AKA ISIS). |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:03:34 AM EDT
[#40]
So who are the bad guys?
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:05:13 AM EDT
[#41]
needs more Trans Siberian Orchestra
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:17:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they run, they're VC. And, if they don't they're well disciplined VC. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:22:34 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So who are the bad guys? 
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:42:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Smerch BM30 cluster munition.
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:43:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so why don't we make ours to go off 10-20 minutes after they are fired if they don't go off before then. seems like a great way to get a few more combatant kills as the survivors will be looking for other survivors and trying to salvage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Impressive by anyone's count but how did not go off to be found later by some kid? if you look back on russias tactics in afghanistan .. they made bomblets to purposely look like toys..... just so people / kids would pick them up.... ( at least according to sof mag back in the day).... lots of kids missing limbs. in other words.. the russians dont give a fuck if you get your leg blown off 20 years later... because they really dont give a fuck. no they didn't. that was one of many lies told. the fact is bomblets, because they aren't buried, aren't nearly the problem land mines are. Don't fuck with munitions and you won't get hurt. so why don't we make ours to go off 10-20 minutes after they are fired if they don't go off before then. seems like a great way to get a few more combatant kills as the survivors will be looking for other survivors and trying to salvage. One of our German members might be along shortly... In the late 80"s, there was a cluster bomb munition that was first attached to the underside of a Tornado. It was called something like Multiple Dispenser System. If I remember correctly, one of the submunition types would land back on earth. Then once it was stopped or no.longer moving, this kinda dart like object would get ejected from it. It had a wire or cable attached to it. If anybody came walking by and pressed against the trip wire, then BOOM! 
A truly wicked weapon...ingenius...but still wicked. Again, IIRC, there was another bomblet that was meant to fuck up runways or airports. It would land like on a taxiway. It would remain idle or dormant until it heard the sound of a jet engine close by, and then BOOM! |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 1:00:26 AM EDT
[#46]
It is well that war is so terrible, lest we should grow too fond of it.
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Posted: 10/15/2015 1:04:35 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm a huge fan of artillery, but I have to agree with Steinhab that you can't coerce a population to cease a fight. You have to beat them on the field.
Which is why we have combined arms maneuver to begin with. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 1:07:05 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see a problem with this. Russia doing what needs to be done. Our government in clueless and is supporting the rebels (AKA ISIS). No. That's now how any of this works. In Syria, you have at least 4 major factions: Syrian government under Assad (Russia supports these) Syrian Rebels/Free Syria Army (US and Turkey, Saudis, UAE support these) Kurds ISIS |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 1:11:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. That's now how any of this works. In Syria, you have at least 4 major factions: Syrian government under Assad (Russia supports these) Syrian Rebels/Free Syria Army (US and Turkey, Saudis, UAE support these) Kurds ISIS Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't see a problem with this. Russia doing what needs to be done. Our government in clueless and is supporting the rebels (AKA ISIS). No. That's now how any of this works. In Syria, you have at least 4 major factions: Syrian government under Assad (Russia supports these) Syrian Rebels/Free Syria Army (US and Turkey, Saudis, UAE support these) Kurds ISIS It's worth noting that the much of the FSA has links to the Muslim Brotherhood. It's not a monolithic organization, being an alliance of many smaller organizations, but there are significant portions of it that are definitely not friendly to the West in general or the US specifically. If we have any "friends" at all in the region its the Kurds, who are nowhere near the Russian AO. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 1:15:29 AM EDT
[#50]
It would surely violate COC to advocate such munitions deployment against domestic communist insurgents.
So we would never recommend such egregious action. |
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