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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:37:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. That’s an SU-100…….. 122 has the big brake on the end of the barrel……. It’s going to be funny seeing those roll into combat, only to get can-opened by an AT weapon…… what’s next, T-34s and JS-2s? There’s a reason the Russkies don’t throw stuff away If they roll out the T-34s it will be like a WW2 re-enactment except the other side has 80 years of tech advancements on their side. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:38:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More likely an L7/M68 or derivative. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think they could possibly upgun the 62 and the 55 to take the 125……. Might take some work but the Israelis are good at that and could lend them some expertise More likely an L7/M68 or derivative. The 115mm smoothbore is fine and performs as well or better in key areas as the L7. The Israelis rebarreled the T-55s, because the 105mm rifled gun was a step up from the 100mm rifled gun. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:38:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't that make maintenance/replacing a track more difficult? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm curious about the main gun ammo. I'm pretty sure there is no new manufacture and 40 years of storage on the open Tundra is not going to help. Maybe we'll see a lot of self detonating tank videos? Belgium and Russia still make it, not to mention lots of stored ammunition. The Belgian made stuff is the best performing on the market. Quoted: Will these re-issued T62s still be a soup can to the Javelin? These puppies don't have auto-loaders, from what I have been able to discover. So, another crew member is needed and the loading is much slower. (30sec vs 6 sec) That may not seem like much, but, humans loading shells into chambers can be distracted and make mistakes. RUS making mistakes? Who would have guessed. That said, I don't see the few hundred they get onto the battle field making a difference. Humans can be faster but autoloaders don't get tired. Only needing 3 to completely crew a vehicle is a big benefit. Doesn't that make maintenance/replacing a track more difficult? One less crewman to perform operator level PMCS in general, vehicle recovery, perform repairs like thrown track, occupy an LP/ OP while in the defense, etc. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:38:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia doesn’t do ERA very well… When it's installed it's whatever. Works well against handheld antitank weapons. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:39:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: well other than the t90s and t80 (etc) they had them in inventory.... getting so much "russian equipment", that the gyspy zelensky is begging nato and every country in the world for more tanks and equpipment u ever deviate from ur CIA talking points? It's very clear that Ukraine has captured a lot of Russian equipment, regardless of which side you're on. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:41:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For all the "lol T-34" talk, I wonder if they're pulling the really old shit out of retirement to use in some capacity where "a tank" is enough? WW2-era armor is still armor, and I bet it'd still laugh at small arms fire and things like a drone-delivered grenade. I'd wonder how long the really old stuff will run for under field conditions, but hell, putting a shitty old tank behind an offensive which otherwise wouldn't have one against an area with no capable opposition to "armored moving thing with a 7.62x54r machine gun " could make all the difference. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:41:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it possible that Russia is using shit vehicles and conscripts to soak up Ukranian anti armour resources ? Holding better trained and equipped units in reserve for when the Ukranians run low ? No. Russia ate their seed corn and now they are deploying people who have never served along with people who served briefly long ago, to die without organizaton. A friend of a friend is fighting there, and has been fighting all his adult life. He said he's never felt before like his work was murder, until now. But that he wasn't going to stop. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:41:42 PM EDT
[#8]
It is funny to see so many who are shocked that the Russia stronk meme is indeed a meme and not true
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:43:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm curious about the main gun ammo. I'm pretty sure there is no new manufacture and 40 years of storage on the open Tundra is not going to help. Maybe we'll see a lot of self detonating tank videos? Russia probably has the capability to make more, since Nexter makes 115mm APFSDS which is actually pretty comparable to 105mm, but that's not the point. Point is there must be an export market for it. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:44:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't that make maintenance/replacing a track more difficult? Yes, an I'm convinced that the reason the Army hates autoloaders is because if your extra maintainer has a job critical to the function of the tank the Army has to put him on you MTOE. The French use an APC full of maintainers to fill in the labor gaps, which would be cool because they can show up and gang bang a task instead of just using 4 guys. If the US Army did that at some point they would just...take those guys off the MTOE to save money. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:48:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven’t kept up with active defense technology, but I would think the technological challenges of stopping KE AP munitions w/ an omni-directional explosive charge a difficult milestone. The Russians claim they have an active system that can break a long rod but they also claimed that they weren't stealing the food, uniforms and bedding and that they weren't raping the recruits anymore so I wouldn't take that seriously. I would not be surprised to see in the future, a tank design that uses APS against HEAT and accepts more risk from KE projectiles than we are comfortable with generally though. FCS would have been that, but in trade you get a rapidly deployable vehicle with limited logistics draw. You'd have to have a heavy tank to back it up and smart people to decide which to send when and where. And further on that thought, MPF should have been a real medium... |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:48:56 PM EDT
[#12]
The Russians at this point seem like a hollowed out force. Just incredible losses of manpower and armor...
Hking |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 3:56:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also weren’t ever prepared to invade UKR but only to drive in. Quote HistoryQuoted: They also weren’t ever prepared to invade UKR but only to drive in. They expected Ukraine to fold within a day to a week, tops. This reflects on incompetent leadership from the top down. Putin surrounded himself with yes men instead of honest generals. Honest people around Putin tend to end up with polonium in their tea. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 4:03:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next month they are going to want all their 98K captures, Mosins and Nagant revolvers back.  Ukraine had most of those. They sold them to the US surplus market. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 4:04:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will these re-issued T62s still be a soup can to the Javelin? These puppies don't have auto-loaders, from what I have been able to discover. So, another crew member is needed and the loading is much slower. (30sec vs 6 sec) That may not seem like much, but, humans loading shells into chambers can be distracted and make mistakes. RUS making mistakes? Who would have guessed. That said, I don't see the few hundred they get onto the battle field making a difference. T62 is a 4 man crew with a human loader. A good loader can load in 4 seconds (M1A1 experience). Army standard to TCGST was 7 seconds or less. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 4:22:47 PM EDT
[#16]
The T-62 doesn't have a slick ready rack, the round has to go out the back of the turret after it's fired, and apparently reaquiring a target after a shot is a chore, so it's a slower firer in practice than on paper, or so I'm told.
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Posted: 10/14/2022 5:37:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We would still expect to see the hulls somewhere. And we don't. Not in numbers that add up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's not only not advanced, it's devolved. All the shit worth stealing and selling has been stolen and sold. There's no way, based on paper, that Russia should be out of T-72's. No way. Or T-80's, for that matter. Not based on actual (claimed) production and export numbers. So either the initial production number were a lie (which, well, communism), or their military was scrapping newer tanks (which had probably been stripped of everything usable) rather than older ones. This is worth repeating. For decades, the CIA was telling Congress how much industrial production and armor the USSR was building. And some American economics professors were saying that the math didn't add up, that systemically the communist system led to exaggerations of tank output, and that the USSR couldn't be building these amounts of armaments. This all became moot in 1991/1992 and has mostly been forgotten as a footnote. But maybe the economists were correct all along; the tanks never actually got built. Possible they went to shit and they just scrapped some to keep others running? CFE treaty and inspection / verification process would have the answer to that question. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 5:46:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians claim they have an active system that can break a long rod but they also claimed that they weren't stealing the food, uniforms and bedding and that they weren't raping the recruits anymore so I wouldn't take that seriously. I would not be surprised to see in the future, a tank design that uses APS against HEAT and accepts more risk from KE projectiles than we are comfortable with generally though. FCS would have been that, but in trade you get a rapidly deployable vehicle with limited logistics draw. You'd have to have a heavy tank to back it up and smart people to decide which to send when and where. And further on that thought, MPF should have been a real medium... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I haven’t kept up with active defense technology, but I would think the technological challenges of stopping KE AP munitions w/ an omni-directional explosive charge a difficult milestone. The Russians claim they have an active system that can break a long rod but they also claimed that they weren't stealing the food, uniforms and bedding and that they weren't raping the recruits anymore so I wouldn't take that seriously. I would not be surprised to see in the future, a tank design that uses APS against HEAT and accepts more risk from KE projectiles than we are comfortable with generally though. FCS would have been that, but in trade you get a rapidly deployable vehicle with limited logistics draw. You'd have to have a heavy tank to back it up and smart people to decide which to send when and where. And further on that thought, MPF should have been a real medium... I don’t know much about the GDLS MPF, but I hope it has scalable armor like the M8 AGS / BAE submission. I believe the 105mm main gun was a mistake as well, but maybe the 120mm with combustible ammunition was a bridge too far in terms of crew protection against fire, given design limitations imposed upon it by mandated weight limits. No comment on Russian ERA. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 5:50:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine had most of those. They sold them to the US surplus market. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Next month they are going to want all their 98K captures, Mosins and Nagant revolvers back. Ukraine had most of those. They sold them to the US surplus market. There is a restriction on importing arms from Russia. A guy with a Ukrainian wife bought the guns from Russia. Then he shipped them to Ukraine and had them stored in a warehouse for 6 years. After 6 years they were considered 'Ukrainian' and he shipped them to the US. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 5:54:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they roll out the T-34s it will be like a WW2 re-enactment except the other side has 80 years of tech advancements on their side. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep. That’s an SU-100…….. 122 has the big brake on the end of the barrel……. It’s going to be funny seeing those roll into combat, only to get can-opened by an AT weapon…… what’s next, T-34s and JS-2s? There’s a reason the Russkies don’t throw stuff away If they roll out the T-34s it will be like a WW2 re-enactment except the other side has 80 years of tech advancements on their side. I’d love to see a refurbished Tiger smoke a T-34 |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:05:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LMFAO!!!! Whats next ? . . . Panzershrecks and Maxims ?    https://i2.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/0f731bde.jpg http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/b/b4/BitvaZaMoskvu-Maxim.jpg/600px-BitvaZaMoskvu-Maxim.jpg |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:29:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know much about the GDLS MPF, but I hope it has scalable armor like the M8 AGS / BAE submission. I believe the 105mm main gun was a mistake as well, but maybe the 120mm with combustible ammunition was a bridge too far in terms of crew protection against fire, given design limitations imposed upon it by mandated weight limits. No comment on Russian ERA. I think using a front engine gave them too much volume to armor. The photos show a lot of spaced armor, I’m sure they have options. They use a bustle magazine like an Abrams and apparently everything inside the turret is the same. They also said they have developed the upgrade path for a 120 and autoloader and it’s ready for both. But who thought that mixing the price of an Abrams, the need for a HET and M88 with armor that can’t stop a tank round and a gun that can’t kill a tank was a winner? |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:32:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of people are stuck on what type of tank and what type of ATGM. It's the 3C, intelligence and logistics that is winning this. Knowing is half the battle. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/55313/A862DBC0-83A3-43BE-B39A-A7032674E6A1_png-2562465.JPG You must be a fan of GI Joe
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:36:57 PM EDT
[#24]
I’ve been told that if you think Russia is losing and desperate than you’re a MSM shill
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:37:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol,,"Metric shit ton" . There.  How about a whole ringtail passle? |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:49:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 30 seconds for a human reload? Well I suppose that depends on the layout of tank main gun ammunition, but even if the rounds are poorly stored and difficult to access, a good loader can still be at the ready to “lap load” when reloading and that method is faster than a T-72 series auto loader. I can’t remember what the TRADOC “Go / No-Go” standards for time to reload the M256 120mm main gun are for the US Army, but you were a shitbag loader if you couldn’t get it done in 6 seconds during TCGST (now GST) before gunnery. BTW, a very senior but now-retired MG told me some time ago that the 19K wimminz want more time to reload because they are having a hard time meeting TRADOC testing standards.  6 seconds is really kinda slow . It’s been too long for me to remember how long it takes the door to open , but once open 2 seconds isn’t really all that hard |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:51:50 PM EDT
[#27]
I read a news story a few days ago about a T14 armata being in Ukraine. It seems they’re just using everything from brand new to ancient
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:52:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read a news story a few days ago about a T14 armata being in Ukraine. It seems they’re just using everything from brand new to ancient Found it: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/t14-armata-luhansk-russia-top-tank |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:55:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryUpdate: It has since emerged that footage of the T-14 was in fact taken at a Russian military base, likely by reservists. This solves the contradiction of the T-14 not being technically in active service but still being deployed to the frontline - although a precedent for this had been sent by Su-57 prototypes being deployed to Syria several times from February 2018 despite not yet being in the Russian Air Force. The likelihood of the T-14 program receiving greater investment as a result of operations in Ukraine and being brought into service sooner nevertheless remains, while the possibility of the tanks being deployed to the Donbas even before entering active service cannot be entirely ruled out even if for testing and media purposes. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 6:58:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those hulls in the background appear to be T-34s..... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep. That’s an SU-100…….. 122 has the big brake on the end of the barrel……. It’s going to be funny seeing those roll into combat, only to get can-opened by an AT weapon…… what’s next, T-34s and JS-2s? There’s a reason the Russkies don’t throw stuff away Those hulls in the background appear to be T-34s..... Wow! The tank hulls in the picture of the factory are T-34s! That's a WW2 tank! One of the most produced tanks ever, production ended after WW2 although some were still produced for a while. This shows that the Russians never get rid of anything. While all these older tanks are obsolete on the modern battlefield, I can see a certain logic to them: a modern anti-tank rocket will take them out just as surely at they will destroy the newest tank, so why bother with the latest tank - they are all equally vulnerable to an NLAW. But for infantry support they can still be effective. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 7:02:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: -From the article Update: It has since emerged that footage of the T-14 was in fact taken at a Russian military base, likely by reservists. This solves the contradiction of the T-14 not being technically in active service but still being deployed to the frontline - although a precedent for this had been sent by Su-57 prototypes being deployed to Syria several times from February 2018 despite not yet being in the Russian Air Force. The likelihood of the T-14 program receiving greater investment as a result of operations in Ukraine and being brought into service sooner nevertheless remains, while the possibility of the tanks being deployed to the Donbas even before entering active service cannot be entirely ruled out even if for testing and media purposes. Ah, I missed that update since I first read the article a week ago |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 7:19:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, I missed that update since I first read the article a week ago |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 7:29:50 PM EDT
[#33]
I still find it nuts that they are restoring these rather than the thousands of T-72s they have. I know some years back they put effort into getting mass restoration for T-62Ms up and running to supply their allies, but you'd think the T-72s would at least be in equal condition. Seems like the T-62s were properly stored back in the 80s and the T-72s left to rot in the post Soviet 90s.
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Posted: 10/14/2022 7:37:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For all the "lol T-34" talk, I wonder if they're pulling the really old shit out of retirement to use in some capacity where "a tank" is enough? WW2-era armor is still armor, and I bet it'd still laugh at small arms fire and things like a drone-delivered grenade. I'd wonder how long the really old stuff will run for under field conditions, but hell, putting a shitty old tank behind an offensive which otherwise wouldn't have one against an area with no capable opposition to "armored moving thing with a 7.62x54r machine gun " could make all the difference. Hatches open or closed on the bold part?
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Posted: 10/14/2022 7:43:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still find it nuts that they are restoring these rather than the thousands of T-72s they have. I know some years back they put effort into getting mass restoration for T-62Ms up and running to supply their allies, but you'd think the T-72s would at least be in equal condition. Seems like the T-62s were properly stored back in the 80s and the T-72s left to rot in the post Soviet 90s. They are refurbing/updating T-72s (and T-80s, and making new T-90s), in parallel. They cut new contracts for all those in the last few months (to follow up the active lines that had already been contracted). Production/output rate.......unknown. The T-62s were also already being modernized/refurbed (and had been, for a couple of years, allegedly for "Stalwart Indigenous Allies" elsewhere), just at a much lower rate. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 7:50:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LMFAO!!!! Whats next ? . . . Panzershrecks and Maxims ? https://i2.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/0f731bde.jpg http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/b/b4/BitvaZaMoskvu-Maxim.jpg/600px-BitvaZaMoskvu-Maxim.jpg both sides are using Maxims been plenty of pictures and videos |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 8:07:54 PM EDT
[#37]
I bet T-62s are pretty low on the list of things Russian troops would like to see delivered to them.
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Posted: 10/14/2022 8:21:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lost in this is the question of whether tanks in general are obsolete now. With Russian tactics yep. Imagine how fast our air force would eat them. Tanks aren't invincible, never have been. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 8:36:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still find it nuts that they are restoring these rather than the thousands of T-72s they have. I know some years back they put effort into getting mass restoration for T-62Ms up and running to supply their allies, but you'd think the T-72s would at least be in equal condition. Seems like the T-62s were properly stored back in the 80s and the T-72s left to rot in the post Soviet 90s. They also sent some T-64 tanks to Ukraine as well…….. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 9:42:32 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read a news story a few days ago about a T14 armata being in Ukraine. It seems they’re just using everything from brand new to ancient Seems they're just using anything that can somewhat function ?? |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 9:52:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Can you imagine being a Russian soldier and a big load of cargo arrives... what is it? Food? Medical equipment? Drones? Artillery or artillery shells? Counter-battery radar? Long-range precision missiles? Body Armor? NODS? Comms gear that works?
It's T-62s we were going to sell to a poor client state! It's like Ralphie getting the pink bunny suit. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 10:13:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/09/19/slovenia-is-giving-ukraine-some-very-old-tanks-but-age-can-be-deceiving/?sh=509f5ca37b3f Ukraine is already using T55's. Granted King Manlet's throwing a fit because it's not the latest and greatest. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's honestly surprising they didn't just go for the t55's. If they're gonna be disposable they will do the job. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/09/19/slovenia-is-giving-ukraine-some-very-old-tanks-but-age-can-be-deceiving/?sh=509f5ca37b3f Ukraine is already using T55's. Granted King Manlet's throwing a fit because it's not the latest and greatest. He’s the same 5’ 7” the hero of the New Soviet Union (not all pieces included) is. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 10:47:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While all these older tanks are obsolete on the modern battlefield, I can see a certain logic to them: a modern anti-tank rocket will take them out just as surely at they will destroy the newest tank, so why bother with the latest tank - they are all equally vulnerable to an NLAW. But for infantry support they can still be effective. This sounds like the likely reason. The T-62 is less able to receive additional upgrades than newer models, so it makes sense to put them in situations where the risk of loss is higher.  T-62 in Ukraine. Is it Good Enough? |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 10:52:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Russians are not fighting Ukraine they are fighting the western world arming them on their doorstep. The US has sent more money in arms to Ukraine than than Russia has spent on all its military in the past 5 years or more. So it's time for them to play the wild card.
East Germany was allowed to leave the USSR so long as the UN does not enter their border states...that was the agreement. No one wants to tell the truth on this in the fake news media in the west. That said the US threatened nuclear war if the soviets put bases in Cuba on the US doorstep. Also keep in mind the US intentionally bombed the shit out of civilian targets in both Germany and Japan killing millions of eldery and women and children along with using the atomic bomb twice to win a war to lessen its losses in a ground war. Time for Russia to follow the same plan. Believe me when I say they are thinking this. Thus Russia should use nukes to win in Ukraine due to the west funding and supplying them and if the west tries to attack them then full nuclear war is on with all countries in both Europe and the US. Make the US blink this time as to what they hold dear. Ukraine stays Russian as it has since the 13th century or the West looses all they hold dear and a billion people die and everything you know is destroyed...make your choice. Same thing the US did to Japan. That's how I'd play this if I were Putin. Not saying this should happen just discussing the reality by war gaming at the adult level without the MSM propaganda because most likely this is what they are thinking. Grown ups need to consider the reality of going to war with a country possessing 3000 nuclear intercontinental missiles (even if only 1/2 work) and if its worth loosing everything and everyone you know to support the worlds biggest most corrupt money laundering state...Russia may have a shitty army now but this is not Iraq. I say hold piece talks and allow Russia a corridor in Ukraine to their shitty black sea fleet to end this before it becomes the biggest holocaust in mans history. It's simply not worth it to us. |
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Posted: 10/14/2022 11:49:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians are not fighting Ukraine they are fighting the western world arming them on their doorstep. The US has sent more money in arms to Ukraine than than Russia has spent on all its military in the past 5 years or more. So it's time for them to play the wild card. East Germany was allowed to leave the USSR so long as the UN does not enter their border states...that was the agreement. No one wants to tell the truth on this in the fake news media in the west. That said the US threatened nuclear war if the soviets put bases in Cuba on the US doorstep. Also keep in mind the US intentionally bombed the shit out of civilian targets in both Germany and Japan killing millions of eldery and women and children along with using the atomic bomb twice to win a war to lessen its losses in a ground war. Time for Russia to follow the same plan. Believe me when I say they are thinking this. Thus Russia should use nukes to win in Ukraine due to the west funding and supplying them and if the west tries to attack them then full nuclear war is on with all countries in both Europe and the US. Make the US blink this time as to what they hold dear. Ukraine stays Russian as it has since the 13th century or the West looses all they hold dear and a billion people die and everything you know is destroyed...make your choice. Same thing the US did to Japan. That's how I'd play this if I were Putin. Not saying this should happen just discussing the reality by war gaming at the adult level without the MSM propaganda because most likely this is what they are thinking. Grown ups need to consider the reality of going to war with a country possessing 3000 nuclear intercontinental missiles (even if only 1/2 work) and if its worth loosing everything and everyone you know to support the worlds biggest most corrupt money laundering state...Russia may have a shitty army now but this is not Iraq. I say hold piece talks and allow Russia a corridor in Ukraine to their shitty black sea fleet to end this before it becomes the biggest holocaust in mans history. It's simply not worth it to us. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 12:06:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians are not fighting Ukraine they are fighting the western world arming them on their doorstep. The US has sent more money in arms to Ukraine than than Russia has spent on all its military in the past 5 years or more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians are not fighting Ukraine they are fighting the western world arming them on their doorstep. The US has sent more money in arms to Ukraine than than Russia has spent on all its military in the past 5 years or more. You know thats a lie, right? Quoted: So it's time for them to play the wild card. East Germany was allowed to leave the USSR so long as the UN does not enter their border states...that was the agreement. No one wants to tell the truth on this in the fake news media in the west. That said the US threatened nuclear war if the soviets put bases in Cuba on the US doorstep. Also keep in mind the US intentionally bombed the shit out of civilian targets in both Germany and Japan killing millions of eldery and women and children along with using the atomic bomb twice to win a war to lessen its losses in a ground war. Time for Russia to follow the same plan. Believe me when I say they are thinking this. Thus Russia should use nukes to win in Ukraine due to the west funding and supplying them and if the west tries to attack them then full nuclear war is on with all countries in both Europe and the US. Make the US blink this time as to what they hold dear. Ukraine stays Russian as it has since the 13th century or the West looses all they hold dear and a billion people die and everything you know is destroyed...make your choice. Same thing the US did to Japan. That's how I'd play this if I were Putin. Not saying this should happen just discussing the reality by war gaming at the adult level without the MSM propaganda because most likely this is what they are thinking. Grown ups need to consider the reality of going to war with a country possessing 3000 nuclear intercontinental missiles (even if only 1/2 work) and if its worth loosing everything and everyone you know to support the worlds biggest most corrupt money laundering state...Russia may have a shitty army now but this is not Iraq. I say hold piece talks and allow Russia a corridor in Ukraine to their shitty black sea fleet to end this before it becomes the biggest holocaust in mans history. It's simply not worth it to us. 
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Posted: 10/15/2022 12:11:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is how I see it. If Russia uses nukes then the west should use nukes on Russia. Its up to Russia to decide if that is what they want. So go ahead use the nukes and and find out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russians are not fighting Ukraine they are fighting the western world arming them on their doorstep. The US has sent more money in arms to Ukraine than than Russia has spent on all its military in the past 5 years or more. So it's time for them to play the wild card. East Germany was allowed to leave the USSR so long as the UN does not enter their border states...that was the agreement. No one wants to tell the truth on this in the fake news media in the west. That said the US threatened nuclear war if the soviets put bases in Cuba on the US doorstep. Also keep in mind the US intentionally bombed the shit out of civilian targets in both Germany and Japan killing millions of eldery and women and children along with using the atomic bomb twice to win a war to lessen its losses in a ground war. Time for Russia to follow the same plan. Believe me when I say they are thinking this. Thus Russia should use nukes to win in Ukraine due to the west funding and supplying them and if the west tries to attack them then full nuclear war is on with all countries in both Europe and the US. Make the US blink this time as to what they hold dear. Ukraine stays Russian as it has since the 13th century or the West looses all they hold dear and a billion people die and everything you know is destroyed...make your choice. Same thing the US did to Japan. That's how I'd play this if I were Putin. Not saying this should happen just discussing the reality by war gaming at the adult level without the MSM propaganda because most likely this is what they are thinking. Grown ups need to consider the reality of going to war with a country possessing 3000 nuclear intercontinental missiles (even if only 1/2 work) and if its worth loosing everything and everyone you know to support the worlds biggest most corrupt money laundering state...Russia may have a shitty army now but this is not Iraq. I say hold piece talks and allow Russia a corridor in Ukraine to their shitty black sea fleet to end this before it becomes the biggest holocaust in mans history. It's simply not worth it to us. Apparently this wasn't translated into Russian. 
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Posted: 10/15/2022 12:12:35 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryI don't think it was
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Posted: 10/15/2022 12:19:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: well other than the t90s and t80 (etc) they had them in inventory.... getting so much "russian equipment", that the gyspy zelensky is begging nato and every country in the world for more tanks and equpipment u ever deviate from ur CIA talking points?  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 12:20:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just hope that when they get to the point of raiding the Kubinka tank museum and put the Maus into service there will be video.  |
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