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Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:27:02 AM EST
[#2]
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How are politicians making money?
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No, the average Russian conscript getting his guts blown out is not profiting, nor do Russian politicians and corporations care.

I assure you that politicians and corporations in the West are making big money from this war.  I’ve said from the beginning that the West is not helping the Ukrainians out of altruism.  For once,though, the West is doing the right thing even if it’s for the wrong reasons.  

How are politicians making money?


I’d wager same way they always do.  Family members making investments into things Congress is subsidizing prior to that news breaking.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:29:38 AM EST
[#3]
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I'd wager same way they always do.  Family members making investments into things Congress is subsidizing prior to that news breaking.
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No, the average Russian conscript getting his guts blown out is not profiting, nor do Russian politicians and corporations care.

I assure you that politicians and corporations in the West are making big money from this war.  I've said from the beginning that the West is not helping the Ukrainians out of altruism.  For once,though, the West is doing the right thing even if it's for the wrong reasons.  

How are politicians making money?


I'd wager same way they always do.  Family members making investments into things Congress is subsidizing prior to that news breaking.
That's the semi legal way the plebe politicians do it. Like what Joe Potato used to be. Remember when he used to brag about being the most poor person in the senate, even after 40 years? He was too stupid to take the investment route even with his brothers help. Then he became VP and had enough juice to do it the easy way.  The ones in the actual power circle just launder back a portion of every billion in aid we send.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:30:10 AM EST
[#4]
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The Russians don't even have to use them. Just deploy them and it would chill things out for them quickly.
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It's my understanding they have deployed tactical nukes - evening arming Belarus with them on SU-37s (34s?).

The whole shit-show over there makes me nervous.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:35:41 AM EST
[#5]
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Even that article says there’s issues that could impede being ready in time for this winter. Also neither Canada, USA, Australia or the Mid East seem to be replacements this winter. https://www.ft.com/content/c17849c5-85f4-4cd5-8de9-1cc79abd4681Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:38:03 AM EST
[#6]
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They arent, there are plenty of BTG's that can fight. They are currently getting butt fucked on the wrong side of the river though.
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This, they are worn out, undersupplied and undermanned. Only a matter of time now.


They arent, there are plenty of BTG's that can fight. They are currently getting butt fucked on the wrong side of the river though.

Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:42:40 AM EST
[#7]
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Gotta admit, I think this is the stage of the war where tactical nuke usage is most likely. An unexpected and undeniable crumbling of Russian forces and may cause the “higher ups” to want to teach the world a lesson. Basically, akin to an abusive husband that got caught and says “ if I can’t have her, then no one will”. I think that a gradual war where the Russians slowly lost interest would have made this scenario less likely. As things stand it seems they are more prone to making a cataclysmic mistake that permanently changes precedent in warfare.

That’s what I'm afraid of more than anything.


Having said that, I’m smiling this morning knowing that Ukrainian towns and people are being liberated. It just gives me pause….
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I think that comes down to Crimea.  Without it Russia’s ability to control the Black Sea harms their ability to work in the Mediterranean but the real harm comes from the loss of the Ukrainian industry that historically provided most ship, tank and jet engines as well as a myriad of other items for the military from the Soviet days to before the war via trade deals.  I suspected that’s a large reason why Russia has such a hard time bringing the T14 tank and SU-57 into mass production. After this war there is zero chance Ukraine will make any deals to help the Russians out.  I don’t think Russia can develop that capacity or it would have done so after the fall of the USSR.

There was a reason why Russia was so hesitant to target these facilities and that’s because they thought they would be capturing them eventually.  That seems clearly out of the realm of possible for them listening to their media.

Russians are a paranoid people.  If they feel the south is open to invasion or just trying to save Crimea they might do something dumb.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:43:22 AM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:43:54 AM EST
[#9]
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It's what direct Polish intervention with air power and ground forces can do.  That's where the "foreign fighters" came from.
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Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:44:54 AM EST
[#10]
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FlatRangeOperator: It's our politicians
MostlyPeaceful: Incorrect. The lack of will by American politicians and non military American civilians ran the US out of Afghanistan. If we had to give our military a break and push the AFG military to take lead, Eric Prince's plan was a good one.
fssf158: Afghans did not run us out of Afghanistan.  They harassed us for nearly 20 years until we finally gave up on our impossible mission to westernize them.  Very different from being forced back months after an invasion.  
C-4: Those are usually political blunders, both to enrich themselves but also through incompetence.  Every aspect of Afghanistan was a cluster-fuck.  Why were we giving billions to Pakistan when they were hiding Osama bin Laden right under our noses?  Lots of parallels to Vietnam.
amos1909: That is some progressive revisionist history lies!
nihilsum: I don’t get this narrative. The US was not thrown out of a Afghanistan.
bugy: Donald Rumsfeld bears responsibility for pulling defeat from the jaws of success in so many ways.
All we had to do is win. We didn't have to lose AFTER we won.
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan committed 9/11 (effectively), so naturally we allied with them to defeat their enemies.
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TexasDoubleTap: Other hand, goat herders ran the US out of Afghanistan with nothing but throw down rifles and ieds.
FlatRangeOperator: It's our politicians
MostlyPeaceful: Incorrect. The lack of will by American politicians and non military American civilians ran the US out of Afghanistan. If we had to give our military a break and push the AFG military to take lead, Eric Prince's plan was a good one.
fssf158: Afghans did not run us out of Afghanistan.  They harassed us for nearly 20 years until we finally gave up on our impossible mission to westernize them.  Very different from being forced back months after an invasion.  
C-4: Those are usually political blunders, both to enrich themselves but also through incompetence.  Every aspect of Afghanistan was a cluster-fuck.  Why were we giving billions to Pakistan when they were hiding Osama bin Laden right under our noses?  Lots of parallels to Vietnam.
amos1909: That is some progressive revisionist history lies!
nihilsum: I don’t get this narrative. The US was not thrown out of a Afghanistan.
bugy: Donald Rumsfeld bears responsibility for pulling defeat from the jaws of success in so many ways.
All we had to do is win. We didn't have to lose AFTER we won.
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan committed 9/11 (effectively), so naturally we allied with them to defeat their enemies.
Cope.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:46:40 AM EST
[#11]
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:47:49 AM EST
[#12]
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You’d be surprised. We literally gave out pallets of cash in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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What pallets of cash are we sending them?

You don't win wars with pallets of cash.

You win wars by making the other side so scared they abandon entire companies of vehicles.

Our investment is paying off




Not sure if this a joke or not.


It isn't a joke. When you see the whole "another $600 million of aid" do you think they're sending pallets of cash?


It doesn’t have to be cash for politicians to get their kickbacks. The money doesn’t have to leave the country for politicians to get kickbacks.


Except he was under the impression we are sending pallets of cash to Ukraine, which is incorrect.



We are sending money to pay for the Ukrainian government to pay the people.  Not direct pallets of cash but large influxes of direct deposits.  There might be some pallets but I doubt it


You’d be surprised. We literally gave out pallets of cash in Iraq and Afghanistan.


The main purpose of that is to encourage those areas to use our petro dollar propping us up geopolitically.  That cash eventually gets into many peoples hands softening them a bit to us if they want that paper to have value.  Those pallets are nothing compared to the digital Monopoly money we are flooding around the globe or subsidizing countries for US manufacturing deals.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:48:28 AM EST
[#13]
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Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.
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Do you honestly think they'll report what's actually going on over there?

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Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.

Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:48:42 AM EST
[#14]
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Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.
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Do you honestly think they'll report what's actually going on over there?

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hes_right_you_know-328.jpg
Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.

WTF?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:53:40 AM EST
[#15]
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Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.
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Are you ok?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:58:25 AM EST
[#16]
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Bullshit.  The "plan" was to run the evac out of Kabul after withdrawal until...about now.  Then keep embassy open.  Instead, we were thrown out.
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I don’t get this narrative. The US was not thrown out of a Afghanistan.


Bullshit.  The "plan" was to run the evac out of Kabul after withdrawal until...about now.  Then keep embassy open.  Instead, we were thrown out.

We left on our own. No one on earth could have forced us out.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 9:59:55 AM EST
[#17]
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I did! 3 times! 2 currently serving. ;)
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Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:00:05 AM EST
[#18]
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Just like we didn't get thrown out of Vietnam.
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I don’t get this narrative. The US was not thrown out of a Afghanistan.


Just like we didn't get thrown out of Vietnam.

Who threw us out?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:06:57 AM EST
[#19]
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:07:12 AM EST
[#20]


Poor tankies, running short of copium.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:08:21 AM EST
[#21]
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Who threw us out?
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Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:11:44 AM EST
[#22]
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WTF?
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Do you honestly think they'll report what's actually going on over there?

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hes_right_you_know-328.jpg
Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.

WTF?


Arf always had some autistic/spectrumy guys and cheeky trolls.  And then we got a compliment of Antifa types and paid agitators… but every now and again, we get people who are quite literally insane.   Not in the everyday “oh you gotta be crazy” sense.    But in the “Clinically Insane, lost all touch with reality-high functioning psychopath” sense.  

It’s best not to encourage them.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:27:31 AM EST
[#23]
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I would much these kind of people immigrating here than what's been drifting in across our southern borders. I would adopt a South African farm family into my house in an instant.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 10:53:18 AM EST
[#24]
Interesting correlation between the people who DGAF about NATO or Europe, but are also concerned about the price of energy in Europe.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:06:34 AM EST
[#25]


The Germans are trying to avoid shipments of LNG from the USA.  It is not working out for them.  USA is shipping LNG to Europe faster than it can be unloaded.


“Germany, the biggest buyer of Russian gas in the EU, is building several LNG import facilities, its first, despite its goal of abandoning fossil-fueled power by 2035. It usually takes several years to obtain the permits and billions of euros in financing necessary to construct such terminals. Germany temporarily authorized an acceleration of the approval process and expects the first two to be up and running this winter. Both are ship-borne floating terminals that can be put into operation in a matter of months. The Netherlands was also expanding its import capacity, with plans to add two floating units in September. To move gas from the coastal import terminals to demand centers elsewhere, new pipelines are being laid.”
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:23:08 AM EST
[#26]
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I’d wager same way they always do.  Family members making investments into things Congress is subsidizing prior to that news breaking.
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Yep. Same way they always do. Taking a percentage of this money. And this time, it's a lot of money. Still better that Ukraine gets what they need to survive even if corrupt americans take some of it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:26:18 AM EST
[#27]
doubletap
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:27:36 AM EST
[#28]
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I would much these kind of people immigrating here than what's been drifting in across our southern borders. I would adopt a South African farm family into my house in an instant.
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Ship the southerners to "sanctuary cities" like D.C.
Ship the Ukranians to my neighborhood.

I really should look at sponsoring some Ukranians.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:32:54 AM EST
[#29]
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Who threw us out?
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The will of the Taliban. I was there in 2010 to 11 and we killed 75 to 100 a day. They never stopped. We did.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:42:33 AM EST
[#30]
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Ship the southerners to "sanctuary cities" like D.C.
Ship the Ukranians to my neighborhood.

I really should look at sponsoring some Ukranians.
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We have some recent Ukrainians roaming around here. I don’t think we are screening wisely.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:43:19 AM EST
[#31]
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The will of the Taliban. I was there in 2010 to 11 and we killed 75 to 100 a day. They never stopped. We did.
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Where did you kill 100 Taliban a day?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 11:51:40 AM EST
[#32]
Jesus fucking christ the retards in GD make Twitter look like MENSA.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:04:49 PM EST
[#33]
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Donald Rumsfeld bears responsibility for pulling defeat from the jaws of success in so many ways.

All we had to do is win. We didn't have to lose AFTER we won.

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan committed 9/11 (effectively), so naturally we allied with them to defeat their enemies. All the while our government probably knew they had OBL. Which probably means that OBL wasn't really what the media propaganda led us to believe. Or he was under the control of the CIA by then and was being used as a pawn.

For all we know the Pakis brokered his capture with us.

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ISI is dirty as shit and partially rouge from the federal government.

They saw Al-queda and the Taliban as tools to be used against India.  There is ample evidence that elements of the ISI directed the Mumbai terrorist attacks.  ISI is balls deep in the Haqqani network.

I gotta think that ISI knew we were sniffing around UBL.  It was a big effort in an area well resourced by the Pakistani government.  Doing anything about it would make denying awareness of UBLs presence tough to do however.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:06:57 PM EST
[#34]
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Qatar's leader confirmed that Doha plans to start supplying LNG to Germany in 2024 and described Europe as an "interesting" gas market.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/55ED3454-2718-4A44-9797-08DF878C1309_jpe-2522144.JPG
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They have gas coming out their ears.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:09:59 PM EST
[#35]
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They have gas coming out their ears.
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Qatar's leader confirmed that Doha plans to start supplying LNG to Germany in 2024 and described Europe as an "interesting" gas market.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/55ED3454-2718-4A44-9797-08DF878C1309_jpe-2522144.JPG
They have gas coming out their ears.



No one is talking about Leviathan either.


So I’ll just let the talking heads talk instead of trying to correct.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:11:03 PM EST
[#36]
Does this mean we don't need to send more money or does this mean we having to keep sending money?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:15:09 PM EST
[#37]
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No one is talking about Leviathan either.


So I'll just let the talking heads talk instead of trying to correct.
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I'm still foggy on whether LNG is really a viable replacement for CNG pipelines.    I want to say it isn't but I just don't have a feel for the scale.

For example..1 LNG tanker replaces how many hours or days of flow from Nordstream1?  

So is it even reasonable in 2025 for Germany to have a fully functional economy...or are they well and truly fucked?  I think they're pretty fucked in the short term either way.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:16:52 PM EST
[#38]
Eh, who knows. Ya, I suppose. Just fun to be here.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:22:01 PM EST
[#39]
Delete.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:24:18 PM EST
[#40]
Seeing Russians routed is heartwarming as the most corrupt country of Europe's behavior towards civilians makes it hard to not enjoy their suffering

While Ukraine maybe the 2nd most corrupt that does not lessen the tragedy of the majority civilian population suffering needlessly

My concern is with the nuke card to play will Ukraine be one victory away from saying "One more such success will be our ruin?"

None of us has a crystal ball to foresee the success or tragedy that is about to unfold so,

For now we can all just smile at the panic that has so deservingly befallen the orcs and the celebration felt by the deserving victors in this counter offense
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:24:33 PM EST
[#41]
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Does this mean we don't need to send more money or does this mean we having to keep sending money?
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Yes
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:26:09 PM EST
[#42]
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Seeing Russians routed is heartwarming as the most corrupt country of Europe's behavior towards civilians makes it hard to not enjoy their suffering

While Ukraine maybe the 2nd most corrupt that does not lessen the tragedy of the majority civilian population suffering needlessly

My concern is with the nuke card to play will Ukraine be one victory away from saying "One more such success will be our ruin?"

None of us has a crystal ball to foresee the success or tragedy that is about to unfold so,

For now we can all just smile at the panic that has so deservingly befallen the orcs and the celebration felt by the deserving victors in this counter offense
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1st corrupt. 2nd most corrupt. WTF does that have to do with anything? At which point did this enter international discussion?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:26:22 PM EST
[#43]
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It's what direct Polish intervention with air power and ground forces can do.  That's where the "foreign fighters" came from.
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Crack is whack!
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:30:50 PM EST
[#44]
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Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.
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Do you honestly think they'll report what's actually going on over there?

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hes_right_you_know-328.jpg
Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.



Put down the crack pipe.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:32:58 PM EST
[#45]
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Russia could carpet bomb that place 24/7 until they surrendered. It would be interesting to hear the real story what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA has a plan to kill all Ukraines top people that hold dark info on all the corruption. What a complete sham and shakedown. Something just isn't right. Celebrities and Congress people visiting and worshipping Zelensky is some weird stuff.
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Are you retarded?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:35:40 PM EST
[#46]
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I'm still foggy on whether LNG is really a viable replacement for CNG pipelines.    I want to say it isn't but I just don't have a feel for the scale.

For example..1 LNG tanker replaces how many hours or days of flow from Nordstream1?  

So is it even reasonable in 2025 for Germany to have a fully functional economy...or are they well and truly fucked?  I think they're pretty fucked in the short term either way.
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I peppered my brother as he was packing for an upcoming trip to Houston and he just became more irritated, mumbled something about Biden and walked off to pick up a package. I got the impression to let the conversation go at that point. Seemed like it was all a day late and a dollar short. So this winter will be a challenge, which is why I posted the refugee article. Kids should be in stable situations and focused on school. Im just irritated because much of everything that happened could have been mitigated years ago by not relying on Russia OR the Mideast. That’s a bright spot for Israel if they can benefit from Leviathan.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:39:05 PM EST
[#47]
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I'm still foggy on whether LNG is really a viable replacement for CNG pipelines.    I want to say it isn't but I just don't have a feel for the scale.

For example..1 LNG tanker replaces how many hours or days of flow from Nordstream1?  

So is it even reasonable in 2025 for Germany to have a fully functional economy...or are they well and truly fucked?  I think they're pretty fucked in the short term either way.
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No one is talking about Leviathan either.


So I'll just let the talking heads talk instead of trying to correct.
I'm still foggy on whether LNG is really a viable replacement for CNG pipelines.    I want to say it isn't but I just don't have a feel for the scale.

For example..1 LNG tanker replaces how many hours or days of flow from Nordstream1?  

So is it even reasonable in 2025 for Germany to have a fully functional economy...or are they well and truly fucked?  I think they're pretty fucked in the short term either way.



By 2025 all Russian gas has the ability to be replaced.

At max the nordstream had the ability to ship about 55 billion M3/A of natural gas.

Rough conversion,  but a 135,000 gallon lng ship holds about 310,000 m3/a of cng.

Given, they didn’t need the full nordstream flow either.  But that would be 170,000ish loads of LNG needed. Not a realistic number of cargos to off load. Or to load. Or at all.  

There are also other pipelines flowing into Europe. But transmission across Europe can be dicey.

Given Europe never got the full discharge amount of the nordstream either.  I don’t have the figures handy for the actual discharge rate.

It’s not going to be “one” solution. It’s going to be a mix of a lot of solutions. Supposedly German storage is already 80% full.  Some added lng shipments. Added cng from other places. They’ll make it through the winter. Build up other methods of gas in 2023. They’ll get stretched but it seems they’ll be okay.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:41:16 PM EST
[#48]
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I peppered my brother as he was packing for an upcoming trip to Houston and he just became more irritated, mumbled something about Biden and walked off to pick up a package. I got the impression to let the conversation go at that point. Seemed like it was all a day late and a dollar short. So this winter will be a challenge, which is why I posted the refugee article. Kids should be in stable situations and focused on school. Im just irritated because much of everything that happened could have been mitigated years ago by not relying on Russia OR the Mideast. That’s a bright spot for Israel if they can benefit from Leviathan.
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I'm still foggy on whether LNG is really a viable replacement for CNG pipelines.    I want to say it isn't but I just don't have a feel for the scale.

For example..1 LNG tanker replaces how many hours or days of flow from Nordstream1?  

So is it even reasonable in 2025 for Germany to have a fully functional economy...or are they well and truly fucked?  I think they're pretty fucked in the short term either way.

I peppered my brother as he was packing for an upcoming trip to Houston and he just became more irritated, mumbled something about Biden and walked off to pick up a package. I got the impression to let the conversation go at that point. Seemed like it was all a day late and a dollar short. So this winter will be a challenge, which is why I posted the refugee article. Kids should be in stable situations and focused on school. Im just irritated because much of everything that happened could have been mitigated years ago by not relying on Russia OR the Mideast. That’s a bright spot for Israel if they can benefit from Leviathan.



Israel is pulling huge benefits in from Leviathan.

Shipping has to Jordan and Egypt makes friendly neighbors

Other countries that were exporting there can redirect to Europe.
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:49:48 PM EST
[#49]
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Israel is pulling huge benefits in from Leviathan.

Shipping has to Jordan and Egypt makes friendly neighbors

Other countries that were exporting there can redirect to Europe.
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From my laymen’s understanding Germany doesn’t want to commit to the 20 year long term contracts and that’s aggravated Canada, Qatar and US sellers. Guessing due to their climate change mentality?
Link Posted: 9/11/2022 12:52:20 PM EST
[#50]
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Who threw us out?
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No one "threw" us out, in the sense that it wasn't the US military that was overrun and slaughtered in 1975.

But we got "thrown" out in the sense that we could not fully defeat the North Vietnamese with our tactics and strategy so we declared "Peace with Honor" to assuage our egos and left.

Then after abandoning them to their fates the South Vietnamese government, upon which we had lavished billions of dollars in weapons, training, and economic aid, got "thrown" out.

Continuing to pretend some 50 years later that somehow the Viet Nam War was not a humiliating defeat of US power is a really bad look.
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