[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sig M18 might have just killed an Airman (Page 17 of 28)
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Quoted: I went on 2.5 mile walk through the woods yesterday carrying a striker fired gun AIWB. Been carrying that way all day today too. Still no damage to my nuts. Am I doing something wrong?  Quoted: Quoted:  The more you post, the worse it gets. I went on 2.5 mile walk through the woods yesterday carrying a striker fired gun AIWB. Been carrying that way all day today too. Still no damage to my nuts. Am I doing something wrong? I've carried a striker fired gun AIWB virtually every day for at least 10 years....I just double checked.....but nuts have zero bullet holes in them. |
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Quoted: Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread.
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Quoted: We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. |
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Quoted: Local range just sent out a no 320 notice. I wonder what this will do to the USPSA crowds? Our SCSA MD just banned them from Steel Challenge matches. I don't know about USPSA. Knowing our MD for the program, I don't think he will ban it. But he is definitely the "very safety conscious" type. So we will see. |
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Quoted: If anyone is interested, there's a 320 mega-thread on Sig Talk that's much less emotional and goes into huge technical detail about the fire control system. It's 132 pages long, but the first three pages are devoted to people who support Sig (and the 320) trying to hypothesize how the gun could fire on it's own. Very well worth reading. This is from the current days page. I'm excerpting portions of a post from someone going by DeputyDave, because it's easier than me trying to summarize. I don't own a 320, and have no interest in one, but I am very interested in how much vested argument is swaying the course of this discussion. DD seems to be of a similar mind. "But I will do so again regardless. I'm not defending the P320. Never have. I have stated multiple times that I could care less whether the P320 is dropped tomorrow or around for the next 50 years. I haven't even owned a P320 for about 8 years. What I do defend is logic, common sense and critical thinking. I also point out obvious bias when I see it because it's germane to the topic." "I view firearms like a tool. I can praise a firearm while at the same time blast the same firearm as appropriate. As an example, I like Glock. I teach Glock on an Academy level, in-service and EOT courses. I carried Glock for 20 of my 30 years. And I own several. That doesn't prevent me from discussing the myriad of issues Glocks have had over the years. So I'm not a 'Glocktard' nor am I a Glock-hater. I'm an adult that can look at all aspects of the brand and discuss it without emotion. Same with the P320. I didn't like how Sig handled the drop-safe issue and stated so at the time on multiple forums. At the same time, I find this current 'concern' on the P320 to be baseless. Why? For multiple reasons; - I have read completely biased articles from anti-2A 'journalists' that have omitted facts from their articles - I see completely unvetted and unverified claims from certain YT influencers who have admitted they are simply trying to get clicks/subs and grow their channel for financial gain - I see unsupported comments tossed out like it's factual information - I see a court case go against Sig (that was later reversed) because the trigger didn't have a dingus....that it doesn't need. They didn't prove the gun was faulty, they simply conned a jury into believing it was dangerous because it didn't have a part...that it didn't need - And most importantly, with nearly 4 million P320's sold in a myriad of models I have yet to see any professional demonstrate that an unmodified post-upgrade P320 in serviceable condition is capable of discharging without the trigger being depressed. - And I see some of the top P320 experts (Robert Burke as an example) on the planet explaining, in detail, why a P320 as described above can't discharge without the trigger being depressed - And I have seen Officers caught lying about the details of their ND that were later disciplined and/or terminated Things may change tomorrow in which case I will have new information in which to alter my POV. But as of right now, at this time, with the current information available, no one has ever demonstrated an unmodified post-upgrade P320 in serviceable condition is capable of discharging without the trigger being depressed. And that is the ONLY thing that is pertenant to the discussion." That portion I bolded is still the sticking point for me. It makes the circumstances of this Airman's death highly...suspect, to me. We'll see where the investigation goes. The bold part says they have to be a professional. So what does that mean? Gun expert? Gunsmith? Tier 1? Many people that have a service duty are not really any of those. Does that make their experiences less valuable? The woman that was a school safety officer and her bag brushed the slide needed to be an armorer to know if the gun went off while in the holster? And at least when I was in the military we could not modify a firearm AT ALL. If we wanted something done to it we had to tell the armorer and they had to agree, get the parts and do it themselves. If people have an assigned weapon or if any of these are I do not know. All we could do is basic fast cleaning. And I imagine after the Marines failed these and there was a "voluntary upgrade" because of that failure all of these are them. They will not have the 10mm or 45 parts around to mistakenly assemble them with the wrong parts. These are cheap guns made to get large contracts and cost $180 so they were the lowest bid. That is why the slide is a recycled design and at least some of them have Indian made MIM parts. |
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Quoted: I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. In nearly every firearms related incident and accident that has ever happened, it's very much correct to review and evaluate the incident from the perspective of the Four Rules. In nearly every incident with an injury or death outside of target identification, you're going to find the incident was more complicated than not keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Usually, that means someone pulled the trigger, and there were other problems going on as well. In this case, though, it's simply not useful. One, we don't know the layout of the room or how many people were in there. Two, even if we say the Airman should have kept his holster on his belt, we don't know what the change in outcome would be. Depending upon the Airman's height, posture, how he wore the belt and holster, and whether he was standing, sitting or somewhere in between when the discharge happened, there's a whole range of possibilities. Maybe the round flies harmlessly into the floor. Maybe the round goes across the room and hits somebody else. Maybe the round hits the Airman's femoral artery, and he dies anyway. Maybe the round blows out the Airman's knee or ankle. If he didn't take the holster off his belt, he could be dead anyway, he could be facing a court martial for someone else getting shot, or he could have been busted with an NJP, medically chaptered out of the USAF, and facing a lifetime of trying to make ends meet as a disabled veteran. We can arm chair quarterback this thing all day and make silly suggestions like maybe he should have propped the pistol muzzle up or down next to his computer monitor, but the reality is, he never should have been in this situation to begin with. |
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Quoted: In nearly every firearms related incident and accident that has ever happened, it's very much correct to review and evaluate the incident from the perspective of the Four Rules. In nearly every incident with an injury or death outside of target identification, you're going to find the incident was more complicated than not keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Usually, that means someone pulled the trigger, and there were other problems going on as well. In this case, though, it's simply not useful. One, we don't know the layout of the room or how many people were in there. Two, even if we say the Airman should have kept his holster on his belt, we don't know what the change in outcome would be. Depending upon the Airman's height, posture, how he wore the belt and holster, and whether he was standing, sitting or somewhere in between when the discharge happened, there's a whole range of possibilities. Maybe the round flies harmlessly into the floor. Maybe the round goes across the room and hits somebody else. Maybe the round hits the Airman's femoral artery, and he dies anyway. Maybe the round blows out the Airman's knee or ankle. If he didn't take the holster off his belt, he could be dead anyway, he could be facing a court martial for someone else getting shot, or he could have been busted with an NJP, medically chaptered out of the USAF, and facing a lifetime of trying to make ends meet as a disabled veteran. We can arm chair quarterback this thing all day and make silly suggestions like maybe he should have propped the pistol muzzle up or down next to his computer monitor, but the reality is, he never should have been in this situation to begin with. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. In nearly every firearms related incident and accident that has ever happened, it's very much correct to review and evaluate the incident from the perspective of the Four Rules. In nearly every incident with an injury or death outside of target identification, you're going to find the incident was more complicated than not keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Usually, that means someone pulled the trigger, and there were other problems going on as well. In this case, though, it's simply not useful. One, we don't know the layout of the room or how many people were in there. Two, even if we say the Airman should have kept his holster on his belt, we don't know what the change in outcome would be. Depending upon the Airman's height, posture, how he wore the belt and holster, and whether he was standing, sitting or somewhere in between when the discharge happened, there's a whole range of possibilities. Maybe the round flies harmlessly into the floor. Maybe the round goes across the room and hits somebody else. Maybe the round hits the Airman's femoral artery, and he dies anyway. Maybe the round blows out the Airman's knee or ankle. If he didn't take the holster off his belt, he could be dead anyway, he could be facing a court martial for someone else getting shot, or he could have been busted with an NJP, medically chaptered out of the USAF, and facing a lifetime of trying to make ends meet as a disabled veteran. We can arm chair quarterback this thing all day and make silly suggestions like maybe he should have propped the pistol muzzle up or down next to his computer monitor, but the reality is, he never should have been in this situation to begin with. It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. |
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Quoted: It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. In nearly every firearms related incident and accident that has ever happened, it's very much correct to review and evaluate the incident from the perspective of the Four Rules. In nearly every incident with an injury or death outside of target identification, you're going to find the incident was more complicated than not keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Usually, that means someone pulled the trigger, and there were other problems going on as well. In this case, though, it's simply not useful. One, we don't know the layout of the room or how many people were in there. Two, even if we say the Airman should have kept his holster on his belt, we don't know what the change in outcome would be. Depending upon the Airman's height, posture, how he wore the belt and holster, and whether he was standing, sitting or somewhere in between when the discharge happened, there's a whole range of possibilities. Maybe the round flies harmlessly into the floor. Maybe the round goes across the room and hits somebody else. Maybe the round hits the Airman's femoral artery, and he dies anyway. Maybe the round blows out the Airman's knee or ankle. If he didn't take the holster off his belt, he could be dead anyway, he could be facing a court martial for someone else getting shot, or he could have been busted with an NJP, medically chaptered out of the USAF, and facing a lifetime of trying to make ends meet as a disabled veteran. We can arm chair quarterback this thing all day and make silly suggestions like maybe he should have propped the pistol muzzle up or down next to his computer monitor, but the reality is, he never should have been in this situation to begin with. It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. I don't know what kind of toaster you're rockin', but my toaster isn't designed for the specific purpose of killing bad guys or animals, and it doesn't have an effective range of 500+ yards.  Arguably, firearms ARE special. It's kind of the reason why they're in the Bill of Rights. And there's a difference between how a guy should handle a firearm vs something like a chain saw or a cooking knife. Those things can and do kill people, but the capabilities and margin for error are pretty different. |
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Quoted: It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. In nearly every firearms related incident and accident that has ever happened, it's very much correct to review and evaluate the incident from the perspective of the Four Rules. In nearly every incident with an injury or death outside of target identification, you're going to find the incident was more complicated than not keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Usually, that means someone pulled the trigger, and there were other problems going on as well. In this case, though, it's simply not useful. One, we don't know the layout of the room or how many people were in there. Two, even if we say the Airman should have kept his holster on his belt, we don't know what the change in outcome would be. Depending upon the Airman's height, posture, how he wore the belt and holster, and whether he was standing, sitting or somewhere in between when the discharge happened, there's a whole range of possibilities. Maybe the round flies harmlessly into the floor. Maybe the round goes across the room and hits somebody else. Maybe the round hits the Airman's femoral artery, and he dies anyway. Maybe the round blows out the Airman's knee or ankle. If he didn't take the holster off his belt, he could be dead anyway, he could be facing a court martial for someone else getting shot, or he could have been busted with an NJP, medically chaptered out of the USAF, and facing a lifetime of trying to make ends meet as a disabled veteran. We can arm chair quarterback this thing all day and make silly suggestions like maybe he should have propped the pistol muzzle up or down next to his computer monitor, but the reality is, he never should have been in this situation to begin with. It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. No, but every time I drive my car, I buckle my seat belt and follow the rules of the road. Because like my gun, my car can kill me or someone else. |
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This thread is getting ridiculous. “He would’ve been fine if he followed all 87 rules of gun safety”. Yes, that’s true, but it ignores the whole issue that guns are firing when the triggers aren’t being pulled, and that’s a major issue even if people aren’t getting hurt. This is like Remington 700 triggers all over again. Deny the problem and shift the blame to the user, all to save 25-ish cents per gun. Millions of people can say, “I never had my 700 go off unexpectedly”, but it was an issue for those that had it happen. |
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Quoted: It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. Of course we treat them with more scrutiny on the account of "does it work as intended." All tools designed to be deadly force are given (or should be given) that higher level of scrutiny. What is amazing is when we do not do that. |
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Quoted: Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. So they think that if he had pointed the gun away from him somehow it wouldn’t go off?? Them dudes are grasping at straws at this point. It’s sad that someone died from this, but it doesn’t explain that the gun while still in the holster went off when it was laid on the desk. |
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How long would surveillance footage usually take to get leaked / released, assuming it exists? Or how long for a witness to go to the press? Since it's a .mil installation maybe that will take more time or never happen. I'm thinking of the other ND /AD that there is video of. That's civilian police. |
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GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ 
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Quoted: GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
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Quoted: I don't know what kind of toaster you're rockin', but my toaster isn't designed for the specific purpose of killing bad guys or animals, and it doesn't have an effective range of 500+ yards. Arguably, firearms ARE special. It's kind of the reason why they're in the Bill of Rights. And there's a difference between how a guy should handle a firearm vs something like a chain saw or a cooking knife. Those things can and do kill people, but the capabilities and margin for error are pretty different. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn't happened to me so it's fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. In nearly every firearms related incident and accident that has ever happened, it's very much correct to review and evaluate the incident from the perspective of the Four Rules. In nearly every incident with an injury or death outside of target identification, you're going to find the incident was more complicated than not keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Usually, that means someone pulled the trigger, and there were other problems going on as well. In this case, though, it's simply not useful. One, we don't know the layout of the room or how many people were in there. Two, even if we say the Airman should have kept his holster on his belt, we don't know what the change in outcome would be. Depending upon the Airman's height, posture, how he wore the belt and holster, and whether he was standing, sitting or somewhere in between when the discharge happened, there's a whole range of possibilities. Maybe the round flies harmlessly into the floor. Maybe the round goes across the room and hits somebody else. Maybe the round hits the Airman's femoral artery, and he dies anyway. Maybe the round blows out the Airman's knee or ankle. If he didn't take the holster off his belt, he could be dead anyway, he could be facing a court martial for someone else getting shot, or he could have been busted with an NJP, medically chaptered out of the USAF, and facing a lifetime of trying to make ends meet as a disabled veteran. We can arm chair quarterback this thing all day and make silly suggestions like maybe he should have propped the pistol muzzle up or down next to his computer monitor, but the reality is, he never should have been in this situation to begin with. It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. I don't know what kind of toaster you're rockin', but my toaster isn't designed for the specific purpose of killing bad guys or animals, and it doesn't have an effective range of 500+ yards. Arguably, firearms ARE special. It's kind of the reason why they're in the Bill of Rights. And there's a difference between how a guy should handle a firearm vs something like a chain saw or a cooking knife. Those things can and do kill people, but the capabilities and margin for error are pretty different. Your toaster probably killed more people than most folks guns. And they were probably at the mall or living in another state when the buttery goodness finally hit their organs and took them down. And in the eyes of God we are all evil, so all culinary mechanisms are meant to kill the evil. |
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Quoted: GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 Fuckin 21….
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Quoted: GREENVILLE Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
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Quoted: GREENVILLE Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 |
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Quoted: GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 Godspeed young man. Prayers sent to family. Fuck Sig. |
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Quoted: I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The internet Sig defenders have certainly been silent. Surprisingly, they have not been quiet on Twitter. They are still in full Simp mode quite a few of them are trying to place the blame on the airmen for setting the holstered gun down facing towards him. You also have the usual, it hasn’t happened to me so it’s fine and these are all user error. We have a couple pages of that nonsense in this thread. I can certainly see a circumstance for this to be applicable. If you go to your LGS and ask to see a pistol, does the person at the counter grab the pistol by the grip and point it at you to hand it to you? No, they generally hold the slide and hand it to the customer grip-first. IE "pointing a gun at themselves". If there were people sitting around a desk or table or something and someone removed a holstered pistol to set it on the table, I can see the same thing happening - grip by the lower portion of the holster, and set it on the table, grip forward toward the others. When I hand someone a pistol it isn’t pointed at either of us. When I set down my carry pistol I pay attention to where it’s pointed. |
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Quoted: It's amazing to me that we don't look at other unintentional injuries/deaths with the same level of scrutiny that we do those with firearms. I've said it for a long time - one of the worst things the "gun community" ever did was go along with the anti-gun community's premise that guns are "special." From some of the posts I've seen on these issues, I can only imagine that some of you have your families doing lockout/tagout procedures every time someone is using the toaster. "I don't practice gun safety because I'm not an anti-gun liberal" is a sentiment I never expected someone to say unironically. Remind me to never be anywhere near you. |
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Quoted: I asked my son about that. He's in a combat zone and they still don't carry with a round chambered inside the wire. Quoted: Quoted: I’m guessing the .mil would have more sigs going off but generally troops aren’t carrying with a round in the chamber I asked my son about that. He's in a combat zone and they still don't carry with a round chambered inside the wire. It protects the clearing barrels.
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Quoted: GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 Young kid.
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Quoted: The foundation to the 4 safety rules is your gun doesn't go off unless you pull the trigger. If your gun can fire when impacted or jostled - it shouldn't be carried and only loaded at a firing line. If it fires when it's not supposed to it should be melted down and scrapped. I'm going to get a 320 but just as a shadowbox ornament, nothing more. |
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Quoted: Nice young man just starting out. Awful. Quoted: Quoted: GREENVILLE Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 |
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It is clear to me, based on the comments here, that banning the 320 from any and all ranges has two benefits: 1. It keeps a dangerous firearm away 2. It has the additional benefit of keeping people without critical reasoning away, AKA 320 owners. In other news, Alec Baldwin joins Team SIG. |
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Quoted: The more you post, the worse it gets. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would like to report that I just got back from picking up some lunch. AIWB the whole time and my dick and balls are still intact. No it was not a P320/M17/M18 It's because we say prayers for the AIWB people and ask that their stupid-ass-decision to carry that way does not negatively impact their life or their families lives. ymmv, fwiw . Quoted: "Glock Leg" is real Do you ever hear "Smith and Wesson Model 66 Leg" ? Nope Because it doesnt happen. Plunger fired pistols are inherently more dangerous especially if they dont have a plunger that is locked by the safety. IMHO the best choice for a civilian side arm is a .357 revolver like the Model 60 or 640. Lady Smith is nice for the girlies. 125 grain 1450 fps approaches 600 ft/lbs with a 4 inch barrel. . The more you post, the worse it gets. Yeah, that's some weapons grade retardium. |
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Quoted: It would not surprise me for it to be revealed that this incident was on camera, in front of multiple witnesses. The way they pulled the guns so fast make me think that's exactly what happened. That it's totally undebatable as to whether or not the guy did anything wrong. |
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Quoted: "Glock Leg" is real Do you ever hear "Smith and Wesson Model 66 Leg" ? Nope Because it doesnt happen. Plunger fired pistols are inherently more dangerous especially if they dont have a plunger that is locked by the safety. IMHO the best choice for a civilian side arm is a .357 revolver like the Model 60 or 640. Lady Smith is nice for the girlies. 125 grain 1450 fps approaches 600 ft/lbs with a 4 inch barrel. . WTF is a 'plunger fired pistol'? Did you mean to say striker fired? |
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Quoted: GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
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Quoted: GREENVILLE – Brayden Tyriq Lovan, 21, of Greenville, entered into rest Sunday, July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyo. Born January 28, 2004 in Greenville. Brayden served his country proudly in the 90th Security Forces Group, 90 Security Forces Squadron as a Remote Targeting Engagement System Operator and worked inside the Weapons Storage Area in Cheyenne, Wyo. He was a member of First Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, he played football, basketball, track and field. He loved going four wheel riding with his friends, fishing, camping, jet skiing, hunting and playing play station. https://ky-leadernews.com/brayden-tyriq-lovan/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwqJGQ-XwAAq6Kq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 Damn. Mil needs to tell Sig "it ends today." |
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Quoted: WTF is a 'plunger fired pistol'? Did you mean to say striker fired? Quoted: Quoted: "Glock Leg" is real Do you ever hear "Smith and Wesson Model 66 Leg" ? Nope Because it doesnt happen. Plunger fired pistols are inherently more dangerous especially if they dont have a plunger that is locked by the safety. IMHO the best choice for a civilian side arm is a .357 revolver like the Model 60 or 640. Lady Smith is nice for the girlies. 125 grain 1450 fps approaches 600 ft/lbs with a 4 inch barrel. . WTF is a 'plunger fired pistol'? Did you mean to say striker fired? Just put him on ignore. He's only here to post stupid and absurd shit to get a rise out of you. |
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Quoted: How do they keep getting away with this? They turned an expensive recall in an even more expensive recall and a full blown scandal. I don't want to buy their products over it. How does their executive team survive this? And RIP to the airman. They only get away with it until they don't. It's possible they thought it was going to blow over or that they'd be able to deflect blame onto users/holsters for forever. But now we're in a scenario where there are more guns in circulation, there are more Sigcidents happening, and that hole is now very deep. |
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Quoted: The way they pulled the guns so fast make me think that's exactly what happened. That it's totally undebatable as to whether or not the guy did anything wrong. Quoted: Quoted: It would not surprise me for it to be revealed that this incident was on camera, in front of multiple witnesses. The way they pulled the guns so fast make me think that's exactly what happened. That it's totally undebatable as to whether or not the guy did anything wrong. I don't know much about the Air Force, the command climate of that major command, or that specific four star General. But in the Army, I never saw or heard of a safety stand-down, including a removal from service, of a firearm. Someone would have an ND, that individual would get an Article 15, and everyone in the battalion or brigade would have to line up in front of their First Sergeant to demonstrate they know how to clear their weapons, and that was that. A four star in command of 30k+ personnel spanning 10 installations pulling a firearm from service is something I've never imagined. |
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Quoted: I don't know much about the Air Force, the command climate of that major command, or that specific four star General. But in the Army, I never saw or heard of a safety stand-down, including a removal from service, of a firearm. Someone would have an ND, that individual would get an Article 15, and everyone in the battalion or brigade would have to line up in front of their First Sergeant to demonstrate they know how to clear their weapons, and that was that. A four star in command of 30k+ personnel spanning 10 installations pulling a firearm from service is something I've never imagined. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It would not surprise me for it to be revealed that this incident was on camera, in front of multiple witnesses. The way they pulled the guns so fast make me think that's exactly what happened. That it's totally undebatable as to whether or not the guy did anything wrong. I don't know much about the Air Force, the command climate of that major command, or that specific four star General. But in the Army, I never saw or heard of a safety stand-down, including a removal from service, of a firearm. Someone would have an ND, that individual would get an Article 15, and everyone in the battalion or brigade would have to line up in front of their First Sergeant to demonstrate they know how to clear their weapons, and that was that. A four star in command of 30k+ personnel spanning 10 installations pulling a firearm from service is something I've never imagined. Not a safety stand-down, but we had some transpo company doing convoy live fire and dump a couple bursts of .50 back to the contonement (over our heads, too), their command was relieved and the USAREUR commander came down personally to OIC their qualification range after it. The rounds impacted into vehicles in our battalion parking lot and one of the barracks buildings. |