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Posted: 5/25/2013 7:26:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Star Wars is decimating Star Trek in the polls.
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Posted: 5/25/2013 7:31:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Star Wars is decimating Star Trek in the polls. Because a motherfucking space wedge warship is far better than a two-tailed hippy sperm space ship. |
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Posted: 5/25/2013 5:52:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Star Wars is decimating Star Trek in the polls. Even Obama won an election. |
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Posted: 5/25/2013 6:56:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Star Wars is decimating Star Trek in the polls. Because a motherfucking space wedge warship is far better than a two-tailed hippy sperm space ship. I never considered that 
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Posted: 5/25/2013 6:59:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Star Wars no contest. Hell, if Luke and Solo could beat the empire back then Bones in a shuttle craft should be able to beat the whole empire fleet. |
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Posted: 5/25/2013 7:41:05 PM EDT
[#6]
I'll just leave this here.
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Posted: 5/25/2013 8:02:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Star Wars no contest.
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Posted: 5/25/2013 8:21:21 PM EDT
[#8]
I just lost any respect I may have had for the Start Trek universe.  
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Posted: 5/25/2013 8:26:37 PM EDT
[#9]
I want to see Obi Wan kill Kirk!
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Posted: 5/25/2013 9:26:12 PM EDT
[#10]
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0
Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. |
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Posted: 5/25/2013 9:48:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Star Trek universe as a whole IDE say no teh borg, klanons etc but just star fleet IDE say pretty close. Star Wars there are Jedi but the rest are just reg people hell an army of clones gave them a good run. I think it would be a good fight.
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Posted: 5/25/2013 9:55:00 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/25/2013 9:57:45 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 5/25/2013 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:03:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. Star Wars time to cross a galaxy using standard speeds. A couple weeks. Star Trek time to cross a galaxy using standard speeds. A century or more. Even at warp 9.9 they are going slower than the slowest hyperdrive equipped ship is Star Wars. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:20:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. Different technology. Hyperspace is an alternate dimension. My theory is that light speed in hyper space is much much faster than in normal space allowing a ship to travel across the galaxy in a few hours or days while not violating relativity . Warp speed is obtained by compressing space behind the ship and expanding it in front causing space to move. Relativity is not violated because space itself is allow to expand faster than the speed of light. The whole Warp 10 speed limit was bullshit but the writers needed to fill in a plot hole for Voyager so there we have it. Later on the Warp 10 limit got in the way so they ignore it and come up with Quantum slipstream and then transwarp conduits which are nothing more than artificial worm holes. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:33:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. Using the Star Trek scale for distance/time on the TNG scale the Star Wars ships would be moving 9.9999 or something similar. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:39:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. Using the Star Trek scale for distance/time on the TNG scale the Star Wars ships would be moving 9.9999 or something similar. That's still slow compared to hyper space Warp 9.9999(the speed of subspace signals) is only 199973.2c. It would take a little over 220 days to travel 120,000 light years. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:45:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. Using the Star Trek scale for distance/time on the TNG scale the Star Wars ships would be moving 9.9999 or something similar. That's still slow compared to hyper space Warp 9.9999(the speed of subspace signals) is only 199973.2c. It would take a little over 220 days to travel 120,000 light years. That's why I gave myself a "or something" out. I guess we need a couple more nines.
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:52:16 AM EDT
[#20]
There is no science in Star Wars. It's fantasy fiction.equating what must have been hyperspace travel to "light speed," traveling I Bespin from Hoth at sunlight speed, and "turbo lasers" that were not aimed via any known guidance principle all highlight that fact. Star Trek is not much better, but at least starting with TNG they starting trying to incorporate some scientific theories, until they needed a plot device. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 6:54:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: There is no science in Star Wars. It's fantasy fiction.equating what must have been hyperspace travel to "light speed," traveling I Bespin from Hoth at sunlight speed, and "turbo lasers" that were not aimed via any known guidance principle all highlight that fact. Star Trek is not much better, but at least starting with TNG they starting trying to incorporate some scientific theories, until they needed a plot device. Which I find the most annoying. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 7:02:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip> Starfleet lacks even the most bone-basic capacity for fighting on the ground - they have never been shown to have decent crew-served weapons, sensible small arms, any kind of artillery or armor, or even tactics that make sense. Stormtroopers with blasters and e-webs and armor and artillery and aircraft would eat Starfleet for lunch. <snip> Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how much power is behind a two-handed punch? Especially when delivered by an octogenarian.... But seriously, unless I see some more technical data on these superior shields of the Star Wars universe, which are apparently so ineffective that half of the fighter craft don't even bother outfitting them, it is Trek all of the way. Q >> force. Q IS the force. According to Wookiepedia the Executor class has a shield output of 3.8 × 1026 Watts The Daystorm Institute lists the shield capacity of an upgraded Sovereign Class starship(Enterprise-E) as 5,737,500 TeraJoules Now I might be doing the math wrong but I think it translates into something like this 380,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 vs 5,737,500,000,000,000,000 Edit: WTF comes after trillion?   That is an energy output measurement but it doesn't say how effective the shield generators are at using that energy. Given the obvious technological advantage enjoyed by the Federation, it is only logical to assume that their shield generators are both more efficient and more effective. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 8:18:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Disney needs to get on board with doing a universe crossover movie. And just to piss everyone off, Whedon gets to direct that one too. With the smashing success of The Avengers, I don't see how that would piss anyone off. Maybe you meant JJ Abrams? I would only be OK with a StarWars/StarTrek crossover movie if it was done by Trey Parker and Matt Stone...in the puppetry style of Team America:World Police. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 8:25:43 AM EDT
[#24]
I'm payin' ya to captain a starship, not dance around like a Kansas City faggot! |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 10:30:48 AM EDT
[#25]
Star Wars had deadly blasters
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Posted: 5/26/2013 11:00:34 AM EDT
[#26]
The Empire would ultimately win due to philosophy alone. It is driven by a desire to conquer and rule. The Federation would waste valuable time trying to negotiate peace.
That and clones are cheap. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:05:03 PM EDT
[#27]
hey fuk nuggets lemme end this for you, I've GM'd both table top rpgs along with Starfleet battles and the newer federation commander versions with crossover templates and the empire wins. EVERY TIME.
logistics alone, in terms of war overall, but also in a tactical space battle. the problem is one of mass and frequency, a single tie fighter isn't gonna down the enterprise, but a horde of them along with bombers and sustained withering repeated salvos from a SW cap ships broadside typically strip a fed ship of shielding in 3 rounds max, while at the same time trek weapons do an impressive amount of damage to a sw ships hull....of which it has more than enough and its systems are individual and scattered. in simulations, trek ships can pinpoint fire and nullify individual TL batteries on an ISD....while the ISD can do the same to the phaser array in a volley of typically 2 rounds, problem is, phaser array is a single system, TL batteries are not, so good fast and in a hurry the fed ship can no longer shoot, everytime, and that sucks cuz I like star trek. beyond "shields" which block transporters apparently, sw ships have particle shields for navigation which serve the same purpose as trek deflector field; they are online even when an ISD's main shield fails. No transporter baloney is possible sadly. and once boarding actions become viable, its over for trek, everytime. I know, its queer, I love trek and am a STO player, but the fact is the harry potter pseudo technical BS of trek just cannot deal with the size scope and sheer numerical capacity of a galaxy spanning civilization with more than 100 million years of stellar warfare experience under its belt |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:07:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? Hell the in one TNG episode the Enterprise left Earth orbit moved to 3/4 impluse and left the solar system in a few seconds. a hyperdrive in SW allows a ship to slip into a parrelell dimension where everything moves faster than light, ie the same as the transwarp conduits the borg use SW ships are not even in "reality" per se when traveling between systems, and only the gravity wells of real space which cast their hypermass shadow into both dimensions can drag them forth (interdictor cruiser creates a false hypermass shadow to eliminate FTL travel) |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:22:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Seven pages of this madness?
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:26:45 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:33:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Quoted: You can't out bad Star Wars. You beam one dude who knows how to use The Force onto Enterprise...game over man, game fucking OVER!  Wouldn't the federation win with their beaming abilities? Beam one Nova Bomb, or one Genesis Device onto a Star Destroyer, SSD, or Death Star, and what's left isn't very useful anymore. Massively destructive devices via transporter FTW! |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:33:37 PM EDT
[#32]
ok sure here:
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Posted: 5/26/2013 12:36:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Ha! That's the scariest movie ever made. But really, and I have a copy of the ST Tech Manual and original blueprints on my bookshelf, but this bickering is pointless. The Borg are the descendants of the ancient SW universe anyway.
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Posted: 5/26/2013 3:21:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip> Starfleet lacks even the most bone-basic capacity for fighting on the ground - they have never been shown to have decent crew-served weapons, sensible small arms, any kind of artillery or armor, or even tactics that make sense. Stormtroopers with blasters and e-webs and armor and artillery and aircraft would eat Starfleet for lunch. <snip> Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how much power is behind a two-handed punch? Especially when delivered by an octogenarian.... But seriously, unless I see some more technical data on these superior shields of the Star Wars universe, which are apparently so ineffective that half of the fighter craft don't even bother outfitting them, it is Trek all of the way. Q >> force. Q IS the force. According to Wookiepedia the Executor class has a shield output of 3.8 × 1026 Watts The Daystorm Institute lists the shield capacity of an upgraded Sovereign Class starship(Enterprise-E) as 5,737,500 TeraJoules Now I might be doing the math wrong but I think it translates into something like this 380,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 vs 5,737,500,000,000,000,000 Edit: WTF comes after trillion? Ya know, that seems like a whole lot of energy to me, as in an INSANE amount. (all in VERY round numbers. If I made a major math mistake somewhere remember I’m just a truck driver and correct me.) It takes about 3,000 joules to convert a gram of ice to steam. There are 1,000,000 grams in a metric ton. So, 3 billion joules is required to turn a metric ton (call it a cubic meter) of ice into steam. The Earth is about 12,800,000 meters. The formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3 pi*r^3 So, Earth contains 8,780,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic meters. If Earth were made of ice it would then take 26,340,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 2.6^25 joules of energy to turn a chunk of ice the size of Earth into steam. One watt is a joule every second. So you are claiming that an Executor class star destroyer could vaporize 14 earth sized chunks of ice every second. I think that’s about what the Sun gives off every second. And that’s just the shields!!! Wow. Makes you wonder why the Empire bothered with the Death Star. Makes you wonder why they didn’t just melt Hoth… Actually it makes you realize why you should ignore things like “tech manuals” and books when discussing what is possible for science fiction movie ships. The numbers they come up with do not reflect what was on the screen and they make zero sense. (Star Trek numbers suck just as much) |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 8:11:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: The Empire would ultimately win due to philosophy alone. It is driven by a desire to conquer and rule. The Federation would waste valuable time trying to negotiate peace. That and clones are cheap. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Stormtroopers aren't clones. At least not anymore. Most of the cloning chambers were destroyed in the Clone wars. There would still be a fair amount of clones left in the ranks but they aren't being replaced with new clones. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 8:40:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? I never understood "every place at the same time" it doesn't make sense. I would say, that nearing warp 10 the vessel was moving to quickly too see where objects in space were, but unable to calculate where they were going to be when they get there, making it impossible to make correct course corrections quickly enough to avoid collisions. wouldn't want to crash into a planet or a star because last time your were able to view it, it was a few billion KM from where you think it should be because some anomaly moved it now its in front of you faster then you can move or stop.. space isn't a perfect time piece, its really pretty erratic. which makes all of SW space travel pretty much impossible because there speeds are way higher. also, theres one other thing about the way ST ships move threw space, due to the warp field and the deflector dish, there is going to be a giant tidal wave of crap in front of the ship, moving very quickly, if the ship comes to a stop, the tidal way of crap keeps going. pointing that tidal wave of crap in the right direction would be a hell of a weapon. probably enough to destroy the SW vessels. most likely enough to even destroy or severely damage planets (its something they've ignored in ST, I don't know why, but probably because it would make the use of warp speed very dangerous, and you can't really be bringing ships in and stopping them next to a planet without shotgunning it with dust going near the speed of light.) that was just bugging the back of my brain. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 8:44:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/science/space/nasas-voyager-1-not-yet-out-of-the-solar-system.html?_r=0 Star Wars speeds are BS. Star Trek ships hit Warp 9.9 a few times. Warp 10 is the speed that you are every single place in the universe at the same time. How is it that Star Wars has faster ships? I never understood "every place at the same time" it doesn't make sense. I would say, that nearing warp 10 the vessel was moving to quickly too see where objects in space were, but unable to calculate where they were going to be when they get there, making it impossible to make correct course corrections quickly enough to avoid collisions. wouldn't want to crash into a planet or a star because last time your were able to view it, it was a few billion KM from where you think it should be because some anomaly moved it now its in front of you faster then you can move or stop.. space isn't a perfect time piece, its really pretty erratic. which makes all of SW space travel pretty much impossible because there speeds are way higher. also, theres one other thing about the way ST ships move threw space, due to the warp field and the deflector dish, there is going to be a giant tidal wave of crap in front of the ship, moving very quickly, if the ship comes to a stop, the tidal way of crap keeps going. pointing that tidal wave of crap in the right direction would be a hell of a weapon. probably enough to destroy the SW vessels. most likely enough to even destroy or severely damage planets (its something they've ignored in ST, I don't know why, but probably because it would make the use of warp speed very dangerous, and you can't really be bringing ships in and stopping them next to a planet without shotgunning it with dust going near the speed of light.) that was just bugging the back of my brain. That concern about stuff being places it shouldn't is how the interdictor cruisers work. They put a false gravity well shadow out and trip the safeties that keep you from flying into a planet. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 11:32:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: hey fuk nuggets lemme end this for you, I've GM'd both table top rpgs along with Starfleet battles and the newer federation commander versions with crossover templates and the empire wins. EVERY TIME. logistics alone, in terms of war overall, but also in a tactical space battle. the problem is one of mass and frequency, a single tie fighter isn't gonna down the enterprise, but a horde of them along with bombers and sustained withering repeated salvos from a SW cap ships broadside typically strip a fed ship of shielding in 3 rounds max, while at the same time trek weapons do an impressive amount of damage to a sw ships hull....of which it has more than enough and its systems are individual and scattered. in simulations, trek ships can pinpoint fire and nullify individual TL batteries on an ISD....while the ISD can do the same to the phaser array in a volley of typically 2 rounds, problem is, phaser array is a single system, TL batteries are not, so good fast and in a hurry the fed ship can no longer shoot, everytime, and that sucks cuz I like star trek. beyond "shields" which block transporters apparently, sw ships have particle shields for navigation which serve the same purpose as trek deflector field; they are online even when an ISD's main shield fails. No transporter baloney is possible sadly. and once boarding actions become viable, its over for trek, everytime. I know, its queer, I love trek and am a STO player, but the fact is the harry potter pseudo technical BS of trek just cannot deal with the size scope and sheer numerical capacity of a galaxy spanning civilization with more than 100 million years of stellar warfare experience under its belt Unless the Feds can beam a torpedo through a SD hull. If that is possible, then it is possible to arm every federation planet and outpost with several thousand such torpedoes. Empire hyperspaces into orbit, and a few transported torpedoes later the Empire is toast. Sheer numbers may allow the Empire to overwhelm one or two planets, but given that a single starship can have a magazine of several hundred photons, several thousand is not unrealistic for a planet. Federation wins the war of attrition. If they can't beam weapons past a SD defenses, then the Empire likely wins due to the hyperspace advantage and the numerical superiority. Another thing to consider is how adept the Federation techies are. Hyperspace drives are common technology for the Empire. Within a month Section 31 would have acquired and reverse-engineered the technology. Within two months every Federation ship would have a working hyperdrive negating that Empire advantage. |
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Posted: 5/26/2013 11:37:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Star Wars
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Posted: 5/27/2013 6:03:04 AM EDT
[#40]
On the Kardashev scale where would Trek and Wars rate?
Keep in mind Dyson Spheres are much more advance than anything Starfleet engineering can comprehend. |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 6:32:10 AM EDT
[#41]
What, no Section 31 love in here.
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Posted: 5/27/2013 10:15:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Unless the Feds can beam a torpedo through a SD hull. If that is possible, then it is possible to arm every federation planet and outpost with several thousand such torpedoes. Empire hyperspaces into orbit, and a few transported torpedoes later the Empire is toast. Sheer numbers may allow the Empire to overwhelm one or two planets, but given that a single starship can have a magazine of several hundred photons, several thousand is not unrealistic for a planet. Federation wins the war of attrition. If they can't beam weapons past a SD defenses, then the Empire likely wins due to the hyperspace advantage and the numerical superiority. Another thing to consider is how adept the Federation techies are. Hyperspace drives are common technology for the Empire. Within a month Section 31 would have acquired and reverse-engineered the technology. Within two months every Federation ship would have a working hyperdrive negating that Empire advantage. As pointed out several times the Empire has shields. They are going to stop transporters just as well as the Federation's do. And Section 31 would not survive the initial attack. Starfleet would be on its heels from day one with the Empire attacking Earth quickly and since they never seem to have any warships in the homeworld sector there's not much that could be done before Starfleet's infrastructure would be laid waste to. Even if they could copy a hyperdrive there wouldn't be a starbase or fleet repair dock left to take advantage of the capability. |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 11:01:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Unless the Feds can beam a torpedo through a SD hull. If that is possible, then it is possible to arm every federation planet and outpost with several thousand such torpedoes. Empire hyperspaces into orbit, and a few transported torpedoes later the Empire is toast. Sheer numbers may allow the Empire to overwhelm one or two planets, but given that a single starship can have a magazine of several hundred photons, several thousand is not unrealistic for a planet. Federation wins the war of attrition. If they can't beam weapons past a SD defenses, then the Empire likely wins due to the hyperspace advantage and the numerical superiority. Another thing to consider is how adept the Federation techies are. Hyperspace drives are common technology for the Empire. Within a month Section 31 would have acquired and reverse-engineered the technology. Within two months every Federation ship would have a working hyperdrive negating that Empire advantage. As pointed out several times the Empire has shields. They are going to stop transporters just as well as the Federation's do. And Section 31 would not survive the initial attack. Starfleet would be on its heels from day one with the Empire attacking Earth quickly and since they never seem to have any warships in the homeworld sector there's not much that could be done before Starfleet's infrastructure would be laid waste to. Even if they could copy a hyperdrive there wouldn't be a starbase or fleet repair dock left to take advantage of the capability. Empire shields are divided into ray shields and particle shields. I'm guess a transporter would count as a particle attack. And particle shields seem to be less used/less effective as witnessed by the proton torpedo attack in ANH and the damage sustained in the asteroid field in ESB. Plus, beaming through shields is sometimes possible such as when O'Brien beams aboard the U.S.S. Phoenix. |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 11:11:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Ya know, that seems like a whole lot of energy to me, as in an INSANE amount. (all in VERY round numbers. If I made a major math mistake somewhere remember I’m just a truck driver and correct me.) It takes about 3,000 joules to convert a gram of ice to steam. There are 1,000,000 grams in a metric ton. So, 3 billion joules is required to turn a metric ton (call it a cubic meter) of ice into steam. The Earth is about 12,800,000 meters. The formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3 pi*r^3 So, Earth contains 8,780,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic meters. If Earth were made of ice it would then take 26,340,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 2.6^25 joules of energy to turn a chunk of ice the size of Earth into steam. One watt is a joule every second. So you are claiming that an Executor class star destroyer could vaporize 14 earth sized chunks of ice every second. I think that’s about what the Sun gives off every second. And that’s just the shields!!! Wow. Makes you wonder why the Empire bothered with the Death Star. Makes you wonder why they didn’t just melt Hoth… Actually it makes you realize why you should ignore things like "tech manuals” and books when discussing what is possible for science fiction movie ships. The numbers they come up with do not reflect what was on the screen and they make zero sense. (Star Trek numbers suck just as much) Yup. In Star Trek IV, Scotty mentions never beaming 400 tons before. The transporter system of basically a scout can effectively manage 400 tons of mass/energy conversion? That is about 8,000,000 megatons of TNT equivalent. In just one system of a very small ship. The numbers don't match the capability.
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Posted: 5/27/2013 11:25:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: <snip? Empire shields are divided into ray shields and particle shields. I'm guess a transporter would count as a particle attack. Andparticle shields seem to be less used/less effective as witnessed by the proton torpedo attack in ANH and the damage sustained in the asteroid field in ESB. Plus, beaming through shields is sometimes possible such as when O'Brien beams aboard the U.S.S. Phoenix. There were no particle shields around the exhaust port as they would have preventing the exhausting of hot gas. |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 11:27:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Ya know, that seems like a whole lot of energy to me, as in an INSANE amount. (all in VERY round numbers. If I made a major math mistake somewhere remember I’m just a truck driver and correct me.) It takes about 3,000 joules to convert a gram of ice to steam. There are 1,000,000 grams in a metric ton. So, 3 billion joules is required to turn a metric ton (call it a cubic meter) of ice into steam. The Earth is about 12,800,000 meters. The formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3 pi*r^3 So, Earth contains 8,780,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic meters. If Earth were made of ice it would then take 26,340,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 2.6^25 joules of energy to turn a chunk of ice the size of Earth into steam. One watt is a joule every second. So you are claiming that an Executor class star destroyer could vaporize 14 earth sized chunks of ice every second. I think that’s about what the Sun gives off every second. And that’s just the shields!!! Wow. Makes you wonder why the Empire bothered with the Death Star. Makes you wonder why they didn’t just melt Hoth… Actually it makes you realize why you should ignore things like "tech manuals” and books when discussing what is possible for science fiction movie ships. The numbers they come up with do not reflect what was on the screen and they make zero sense. (Star Trek numbers suck just as much) Yup. In Star Trek IV, Scotty mentions never beaming 400 tons before. The transporter system of basically a scout can effectively manage 400 tons of mass/energy conversion? That is about 8,000,000 megatons of TNT equivalent. In just one system of a very small ship. The numbers don't match the capability. Yeah, they all have inconsistencies, but ST has more due to the longevity of the series and multiple authors. In TOS Kirk once explained that photons are more powerful than nukes. Yet there are multiple instances of photons hitting unshielded hull, or even going into a compromised ship and exploding with definite non-nuclear results. |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 11:39:57 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
On the Kardashev scale where would Trek and Wars rate? Keep in mind Dyson Spheres are much more advance than anything Starfleet engineering can comprehend. As I understand it the Kardashev scale is arbitrary as hell. I'm going to go by the the Sagan refinement of the Kardeshev scale, which breaks it down into finer points. The Federation and similar civilization would probably rate around a 1.3 or 1.4. We see no planets completely covered in structure a la Coruscant, but you'd be hard pressed to argue the the entire civilization is using less energy than wold be available on their home planets. An engineering feat on the order of a Dyson sphere or Niven ring would probably not be possible for the Trek folks for another millennium or so. A Dyson swarm, which would encapsulate a star in smaller elements would probably be possible based on their technology, but the scale would require a lot more manufacturing capacity plus a long time. The civilization that built the Dyson sphere is clearly into type II territory. Something on the order of the Death Star is much closer in scale to a Dyson sphere. The Star Wars setting, where the Empire spans the entire galaxy, could probably build a megastructure that would put them into obvious II territory. The SW universe is probably a 2.2. And though I like Trek better than Wars, the Empire would beat the Federation so badly that it wouldn't even be much of a fight. Star Wars takes place in a universe where the major civilizations have had hyperdrive, let alone other forms of faster-than-light propulsion, for 20,000 years. The major races of the Alpha Quadrant have only had FTL capability for what, half a millenium? At most? What chance would they have against a mysterious race that was zipping back and forth across the galaxy when all of the races currently faring the stars were still stabbing each other with bone spears? |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 12:25:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip? Empire shields are divided into ray shields and particle shields. I'm guess a transporter would count as a particle attack. Andparticle shields seem to be less used/less effective as witnessed by the proton torpedo attack in ANH and the damage sustained in the asteroid field in ESB. Plus, beaming through shields is sometimes possible such as when O'Brien beams aboard the U.S.S. Phoenix. There were no particle shields around the exhaust port as they would have preventing the exhausting of hot gas. How did you learn of this? |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 12:47:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Like to see the enterprise take on a super star destroyer. length 19,000 meters Armament Turbolaser cannons (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8) Heavy turbolaser cannons (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8) Assault concussion missile tubes (250) 30 missiles each Heavy ion cannons (250) Phylon Transport Q7 tractor beam projectors (40) Point-defense laser cannons (500) Complement : TIE series starfighters (144) (can number in their thousands if fully loaded) AT-ATs (30) AT-STs (40) Prefabricated garrison bases (2) Various other assault and support craft (total of 200) Y-85 Titan dropships Crew Crew (279,144) Gunners (1,590) Minimum crew 50,000 Passengers 38,000 (troops) |
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Posted: 5/27/2013 2:43:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Empire shields are divided into ray shields and particle shields. I'm guess a transporter would count as a particle attack. And particle shields seem to be less used/less effective as witnessed by the proton torpedo attack in ANH and the damage sustained in the asteroid field in ESB. Plus, beaming through shields is sometimes possible such as when O'Brien beams aboard the U.S.S. Phoenix. How would you figure that a transporter is actually sending a stream of particles? I'd venture that its ability to work through solid materials to include rocks would imply that they are an energy beam and right in the wheelhouse of ray shields. |
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