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Originally Posted By Consigli: Has it occurred to anyone that the war has already been fought and we lost? By that I mean we have a divided government and they, along with half the people in America, are socialists and communists. The chinese have completely infiltrated our MSM and turned them into their propaganda weapon to brain wash Americans. They have hit us with a pernicious bio-weapon that will degrade us for years to come. And they are 6 months away from having their chinese stooge and apologist, Joe Biden elected. Its already over. Almost. That's why I say nuke them now. Because while that may be the end of America short term, long term, not doing anything turns us into a vassal state of China. Its comes down to "pick your poison." View Quote I really don't like how much of this assessment I agree with. |
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Originally Posted By Tesseract: Hey @C3H5N3O9 I I’m willing to the pit View Quote @Tesseract Why? I don’t have any beef with you. If it’s about me responding to your post, I meant no offense. @CarmelBytheSea at least gives the the appearance that he spends time trying to be informed about the US military. Saying he doesn’t understand it gave me the impression you either don’t read his frequent posts regarding US military matters, or you were being sarcastic. No need to escalate further than that. If you’re looking for an apology...I apologize for singling you out and the flip tone of my response. Cool? |
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: I can see that working for a while. I don't believe the average rural Chinese person has a great love for the urban parts of their country. Kill off CPC political and police power in the rural areas, spread around some money, and foment rebellion. Sounds like it could at least give the urban centers heartburn. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By SAE: Put sneaky Pete out there and start zapping some tax collectors. It might take some clandestine blood money to gear this puppy up. I can see that working for a while. I don't believe the average rural Chinese person has a great love for the urban parts of their country. Kill off CPC political and police power in the rural areas, spread around some money, and foment rebellion. Sounds like it could at least give the urban centers heartburn. Nothing would get the average Chinese peasant behind the CCP like an external enemy attacking them. They already have stoked up the nationalism; the propaganda would be off the chart. |
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When weak, appear strong.....
Depends on the conflict, a land war in China no but the same would be true of the ChiComs on US soil. Of course we’re talking non Nuclear conflict. |
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Originally Posted By JBT: America's Current War Plans for China, Russia Will Not Work, New Report Says How the U.S. Could Lose a War With China How the U.S. Could Lose a War With China The US has wargamed cyber and electronic warfare in field exercises, Work said, but the simulated enemy forces tend to shut down US networks so effectively that nothing works and nobody else gets any training done. “Whenever we have an exercise and the red force really destroys our command and control, we stop the exercise,” Work said, instead of trying to figure out how to keep fighting when your command post gives you nothing but blank screens and radio static. The Chinese call this “system destruction warfare,” Work said: They plan to “attack the American battle network at all levels, relentlessly, and they practice it all the time.” View Quote If the US.mil doesn't train for their combat nets to go dark, they are criminally negligent. Anybody with a brain knows PLA has invested heavily in hacking and cyber combat. |
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Originally Posted By Biscuit42: China is not our biggest threat as Americans. Our elected politicians are the real problem that needs to be delt with before anything. The swamp is thick View Quote The election of Biden will mark the end of the American Empire. He will apologize, sell us out and capitulate. Our own fellow Americans will have put the chinese dagger in our backs. |
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Quoted: Not the first people to think that ... https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tbt.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KFZS3GTVX5D57IA4FLHEDPKVEI.jpg View Quote But when a hellfire turns your dick into air pollution....you've definetly lost the war. |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: If the US.mil doesn't train for their combat nets to go dark, they are criminally negligent. Anybody with a brain knows PLA has invested heavily in hacking and cyber combat. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By JBT: America's Current War Plans for China, Russia Will Not Work, New Report Says How the U.S. Could Lose a War With China How the U.S. Could Lose a War With China The US has wargamed cyber and electronic warfare in field exercises, Work said, but the simulated enemy forces tend to shut down US networks so effectively that nothing works and nobody else gets any training done. “Whenever we have an exercise and the red force really destroys our command and control, we stop the exercise,” Work said, instead of trying to figure out how to keep fighting when your command post gives you nothing but blank screens and radio static. The Chinese call this “system destruction warfare,” Work said: They plan to “attack the American battle network at all levels, relentlessly, and they practice it all the time.” If the US.mil doesn't train for their combat nets to go dark, they are criminally negligent. Anybody with a brain knows PLA has invested heavily in hacking and cyber combat. Have faith. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/02/17/why-naval-academy-students-are-learning-to-sail-by-the-stars-for-the-first-time-in-a-decade/ |
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: @Tesseract Why? I don’t have any beef with you. If it’s about me responding to your post, I meant no offense. @CarmelBytheSea at least gives the the appearance that he spends time trying to be informed about the US military. Saying he doesn’t understand it gave me the impression you either don’t read his frequent posts regarding US military matters, or you were being sarcastic. No need to escalate further than that. If you’re looking for an apology...I apologize for singling you out and the flip tone of my response. Cool? View Quote I’m not if he was referring to the article or me or as you asked whether sarcasm so I see how it’s confusing |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: If the US.mil doesn't train for their combat nets to go dark, they are criminally negligent. Anybody with a brain knows PLA has invested heavily in hacking and cyber combat. View Quote They’re also very interested in space and satellites but basically same thing |
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Originally Posted By aeroworksxp: Why the hell should I care about china when we have snakes in the kitchen here? China is a distraction from the real issues America faces. IMHO. View Quote Birds of a feather to a degree https://freebeacon.com/democrats/major-democratic-group-received-100000-in-chinese-government-linked-tech-firm-stock/ Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: We can absolutely fight and win unjust wars, it's weather we have the stomach for just ones that I worry about. View Quote Exactly; China had best hope we never get into a justified war against them. We were prepared to annihilate the Japanese culture from the planet, and they weren't half as repugnant as the Communist Chinese regime (and frankly, a lot of the pre-existing Chinese culture built by eons of imperial dictatorship, as well). |
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They don't really have the want or balls to find out what would happen if we decided to slap their asses.
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Nope, other way around. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-army-blockade/chinas-fear-of-an-american-blockade-idUSKCN1S6140 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Nope, other way around. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-army-blockade/chinas-fear-of-an-american-blockade-idUSKCN1S6140 TAIPEI (Reuters) - One of China’s greatest fears is the threat of blockade from the United States and its allies in the event of a conflict or crisis, according to senior Chinese and Western military officials. I certainly hope that we never do something as foolish as a naval blockade, because just as was the case with Japan, China will have no choice but to go to war with us at that point. If our goal is to destroy them, this would be how to light the fuse in such a way that we are justified in their annihilation after they inevitably attack us. But as a tool for anything but sparking a world war, it would be profoundly foolish to even hint at it. |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Sounds like Korean Peninsula is on their minds https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/1219063D-D676-4C98-A07F-7499D390268D_jpe-1413050.JPG View Quote Norms could invade South Korea with Chinese and Russian air cover /air defense assets, and limited ground military support. |
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For sure it was losing the war with FChina, until PRESIDENT TRUMP came along!
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Originally Posted By Thunder900: The Chinese know that a multi front war would develop that would make it hard for us to fight. Would the US/ASEAN/NATO risk nuclear war over Taiwan, Pacific Islands, S. Korea, the Strait of Hormuz, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland? I have my doubts. View Quote Not sure about the Baltic states but Poland would be a bite that Russia chokes on big time. The polish people are not about to let Russians just march in there. They are well armed and more importantly righteously pissed. The Bear would do well not to poke that wolverine. |
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Originally Posted By JBT: America's Current War Plans for China, Russia Will Not Work, New Report Says How the U.S. Could Lose a War With China How the U.S. Could Lose a War With China It’s not that the Chinese Communist Party would take over Washington. But in its own region, China has the advantage. f a war broke out between the United States and China, the clash between two of the world’s most powerful militaries would be horrific. And the United States could very well lose. That’s a concern among current and former defense officials and military analysts, one of whom told Breaking Defense earlier this year that in war games simulating great-power conflict in which the United States fights Russia and China, the United States “gets its ass handed to it.” US ‘Gets Its Ass Handed To It’ In Wargames: Here’s A $24 Billion Fix “In our games, when we fight Russia and China,” RAND analyst David Ochmanek said this afternoon, “blue gets its ass handed to it.” In other words, in RAND’s wargames, which are often sponsored by the Pentagon, the US forces — colored blue on wargame maps — suffer heavy losses in one scenario after another and still can’t stop Russia or China — red — from achieving their objectives, like overrunning US allies. No, it’s not a Red Dawn nightmare scenario where the Commies conquer Colorado. But losing the Baltics or Taiwan would shatter American alliances, shock the global economy, and topple the world order the US has led since World War II. Body Blows & Head Hits How could this happen, when we spend over $700 billion a year on everything from thousand-foot-long nuclear-powered aircraft carriers to supersonic stealth fighters? Well, it turns out US superweapons have a little too much Achilles in their heels. “In every case I know of,” said Robert Work, a former deputy secretary of defense with decades of wargaming experience, “the F-35 rules the sky when it’s in the sky, but it gets killed on the ground in large numbers.” Even the hottest jet has to land somewhere. But big airbases on land and big aircraft carriers on the water turn out to be big targets for long-range precision-guided missiles. Once an American monopoly, such smart weapons are now a rapidly growing part of Russian and Chinese arsenals — as are the long-range sensors, communications networks, and command systems required to aim them. So, as potential adversaries improve their technology, “things that rely on sophisticated base infrastructure like runways and fuel tanks are going to have a hard time,” Ochmanek said. “Things that sail on the surface of the sea are going to have a hard time.” (That’s why the 2020 budget coming out next week retires the carrier USS Truman decades early and cuts two amphibious landing ships, as we’ve reported. It’s also why the Marine Corps is buying the jump-jet version of the F-35, which can take off and land from tiny, ad hoc airstrips, but how well they can maintain a high-tech aircraft in low-tech surroundings is an open question). Worst of all, Work and Ochmanek said, the US doesn’t just take body blows, it takes a hard hit to the head as well. Its communications satellites, wireless networks, and other command-and-control systems suffer such heavy hacking and jamming that they are, in Ochmanek’s words, “suppressed, if not shattered.” The US has wargamed cyber and electronic warfare in field exercises, Work said, but the simulated enemy forces tend to shut down US networks so effectively that nothing works and nobody else gets any training done. “Whenever we have an exercise and the red force really destroys our command and control, we stop the exercise,” Work said, instead of trying to figure out how to keep fighting when your command post gives you nothing but blank screens and radio static. The Chinese call this “system destruction warfare,” Work said: They plan to “attack the American battle network at all levels, relentlessly, and they practice it all the time.” View Quote HONK HONK |
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Depends on how we decide to define "winning".
Launch a full ground war where we overthrow the CCP and install a liberal democracy like we did in Germany and Japan? Probably not. Defeat their naval and air forces to the point that they're no longer able to bully our allies in the region? Absolutely yes. |
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A few thoughts: China is asshoe. Also fuck the CCP with a bouquet of rusty harpoons.
These types of propaganda posts are brought to you by the ancient Chinese art of bullshido with heaping side of projection. They are hurting and are fearful. They are also completely impotent against the calamity they brought on themselves. The irony of the corona plague unleashed from China bringing the whole CCP machinery, including their ambitious plans of world domination, to its knees is delicious. From my personal foxhole I've been putting off every single non-essential purchase I planned on making this year until I find a verifiably non-chinese source for those items. I realize that this is not possible in the absolute because even products made elsewhere can have chinese sourced parts in them and I won't necessarily know, but I'll do what I can to eliminate supporting the CCP. I can only control so much but every little bit helps. I already resigned myself to the fact that any substitute I find, especially if made in the US, will be much more expensive. Perhaps 2-3x as much but it's worth it. The CCP must be starved out of existence preferably, but at a minimum starved out of any influence in North America. |
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Originally Posted By Balu: Not sure about the Baltic states but Poland would be a bite that Russia chokes on big time. The polish people are not about to let Russians just march in there. They are well armed and more importantly righteously pissed. The Bear would do well not to poke that wolverine. View Quote They also recently scooped up 4 isis jihadi planning an attack in Europe https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/1589205418-poland-says-four-suspected-isis-militants-arrested |
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It all depends on the context of war with China. Without going nukes, China could not beat us by invading us. At the same time, we probably could not take them either
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GT is a propaganda pimp for the CCP. The reality is China would get it's ass kicked so hard their hemorrhoids would burst before they could get their heads out of their asses.
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Quoted: Has their Army had to do anything post-Korean war as far as actual conflict other than crushing internal riots or piss-ant "skirmishes" with Indian on the border? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: LOL in ICBM Lol in an ability to project naval power across an ocean at a rival with a brown water navy Has their Army had to do anything post-Korean war as far as actual conflict other than crushing internal riots or piss-ant "skirmishes" with Indian on the border? They got their asses kicked by the Vietnamese in the late '70's. |
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Quoted: I wouldn't say all kids today. My son (21) enlisted right out of HS. Got hurt but graduated Basic, couldn't get through AIT and was sent home. Almost 3 years later, he's about to graduate in 2 wks at Benning. There are still some who were raised right and answered the call. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Yup... These kids today are pussies. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126174/IMG_20180207_121938778_jpg-1412670.JPG My grandfather got this at Pearl Harbor pulling folks from wreckage while the Japanese were still bombing the hell out of it. Today's kids can't handle losing YouTube... Well, I think of him as my kid brother, but he's sneaking up on 40 now, but my brother has two Purple Hearts, almost losing his arm with the second one, completed the Best Ranger Competition, and is still serving as an infantry officer (and has good odds that his battalion command will be an Airborne infantry battalion, if he makes LTC, since his XO and S-3 time were in Airborne infantry units, the only reason he might not want to go back to 4/25 is if his wife can't get a DA civilian job there like his last tour there). |
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Quoted: Like we did in Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan and.. The levels of delusion is off the charts around here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: China Is Asshoe We would stomp their dicks off Like we did in Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan and.. The levels of delusion is off the charts around here. How would Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan have gone if the hostiles didn't have a safe rear area where they could resupply and rest? China is building their belts and roads initiative to try to reduce their dependence on shipping, but it isn't there yet, and even then is subject to interdiction. |
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Quoted: I remember reading something a while back about how our infrastructure, power grids etc... are for the most part unprotected and that we really don't know what kind of inroads foreign powers may have made in to compromising them. If they have the ability to flip the switch and shut us down the land war won't be 6,000 miles from home it would be marching right down our streets dressed in Chinese uniforms. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Whatta they think they're gonna do? suck us into a land war 6,000 miles from home? I remember reading something a while back about how our infrastructure, power grids etc... are for the most part unprotected and that we really don't know what kind of inroads foreign powers may have made in to compromising them. If they have the ability to flip the switch and shut us down the land war won't be 6,000 miles from home it would be marching right down our streets dressed in Chinese uniforms. Having worked for a power utility, I know the Feds were giving regular briefings on threats and security measures to counter them, that was probably THE most proactive employer I've had as far as frequent security testing (especially using phishing emails). Only the director of IT would know when they were happening, and he particularly enjoyed laughing at IT employees who fell for them, with mandatory refresher security training for anybody who did. |
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Quoted: If you mean the Chinese people, I think their "innocence"-I suppose- in all this is pretty exaggerated. They seem to be pretty nationalistic, and don't have any compunctions about taking their side first, no matter what. I actually kind of admire that, frankly.. at least a lot more than I admire the sniveling pseudo intellectuals on our side who put us last, no matter what. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't think we'd occupy China. I think we'd just pwn their military and go home. Maybe glowies fund an uprising. F35 and F22s wrecking house would be awesome. Shock and Awe 2: Communist Boogaloo We need to remember that the enemy isn't China, it's the CCP. Weaken them enough and China and her neighbors will take care of the rest, maybe Chiang will finally get the last laugh, wherever he is. . If you mean the Chinese people, I think their "innocence"-I suppose- in all this is pretty exaggerated. They seem to be pretty nationalistic, and don't have any compunctions about taking their side first, no matter what. I actually kind of admire that, frankly.. at least a lot more than I admire the sniveling pseudo intellectuals on our side who put us last, no matter what. The question is, are they actually all that patriotic, or do they put on a show because failing to do so has seriously negative consequences (much like the Nork's put on a show)? |
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OK, one other point, people keep viewing China as monolithic. They aren't. They have ruthless control over the minorities in the country, but the Han majority treats them poorly, I could easily see China fragmenting if the CCP were heavily damaged.
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China doubts we'll nuke South China Sea islands?
LOL Ever heard of Bikini Atoll? |
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Originally Posted By LoneWolf545: OK, one other point, people keep viewing China as monolithic. They aren't. They have ruthless control over the minorities in the country, but the Han majority treats them poorly, I could easily see China fragmenting if the CCP were heavily damaged. View Quote Bingo. Even the Han are hardly monolithic - Beijing runs the country, but there are many other (Han) areas with their own cultures and languages. Suppressed, but still there. I think a lot of the saber ratting is to try to avoid the population deciding enough is enough and the country shattering. Even their military is pretty factional, from my understanding, and given how much of it is needed to keep the populace in line, things could get ugly over there quickly. I really don’t want a shooting war with the Chinese, but I also don’t think it would go well for them. Which is why I doubt it will happen unless a lot of stupid happens the wrong way. So the chances are 50/50. |
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Originally Posted By Puritanus: Bingo. Even the Han are hardly monolithic - Beijing runs the country, but there are many other (Han) areas with their own cultures and languages. Suppressed, but still there. I think a lot of the saber ratting is to try to avoid the population deciding enough is enough and the country shattering. Even their military is pretty factional, from my understanding, and given how much of it is needed to keep the populace in line, things could get ugly over there quickly. I really don’t want a shooting war with the Chinese, but I also don’t think it would go well for them. Which is why I doubt it will happen unless a lot of stupid happens the wrong way. So the chances are 50/50. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Puritanus: Originally Posted By LoneWolf545: OK, one other point, people keep viewing China as monolithic. They aren't. They have ruthless control over the minorities in the country, but the Han majority treats them poorly, I could easily see China fragmenting if the CCP were heavily damaged. Bingo. Even the Han are hardly monolithic - Beijing runs the country, but there are many other (Han) areas with their own cultures and languages. Suppressed, but still there. I think a lot of the saber ratting is to try to avoid the population deciding enough is enough and the country shattering. Even their military is pretty factional, from my understanding, and given how much of it is needed to keep the populace in line, things could get ugly over there quickly. I really don’t want a shooting war with the Chinese, but I also don’t think it would go well for them. Which is why I doubt it will happen unless a lot of stupid happens the wrong way. So the chances are 50/50. It’s not even Beijing, it’s the ~500 member Politburo, the 5 top dogs and then Zing running the show. Think about that for a moment. 506 people ruling over 1.5 billion people. LOL. Chris |
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: We can absolutely fight and win unjust wars, it's weather we have the stomach for just ones that I worry about. View Quote We don't. As proven in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. A country cannot win a war by fighting defensively, by refusing to use higher grade weapons than the enemy has, or by refusing to hit "civilian" targets. |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Short version is China hopes lots and lots of their missiles keep us stuck in Hawaii https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2183972/china-releases-footage-guam-killer-df-26-ballistic-missile-clearhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/EA9CC3A3-16ED-48DB-994D-26C3187B17FB_jpe-1412737.JPGhttps://bulletin.facs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Guam-Map.jpg View Quote LOL YAWN, Everyone is so worried about ICBMs from ChiNA, fail to realize we beat that technology and threat in the 80s against Russia! We have Hypersonic nuclear capable drones! Drones in the Ocean, Drones in the Air. We have things in space that can target any where in the world in a flash of a second! We can crush the ChiNA military. |
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Originally Posted By Jackal-FnM: And how are they going to be just marching down the street. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Jackal-FnM: Originally Posted By Socio: I remember reading something a while back about how our infrastructure, power grids etc... are for the most part unprotected and that we really don't know what kind of inroads foreign powers may have made in to compromising them. If they have the ability to flip the switch and shut us down the land war won't be 6,000 miles from home it would be marching right down our streets dressed in Chinese uniforms. And how are they going to be just marching down the street. Simple, the flip the switch, give us two weeks to descend into complete chaos, walk in and take over. |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/2D3558E0-C043-4BEA-8704-7221C3AD98BB_jpe-1413666.JPG View Quote Protect Taiwan? I have a feeling China will feel differently if they decide to storm the beaches. They don’t really need our protection. It’s just mutually beneficial to do so. If China attempts to invade...they’re gonna need the 2 million they have under arms. Badly. I have a feeling the South China Sea will turn quite red. And China may stop being so. |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/38AA5C20-8EEC-49ED-9F0A-56A8F9660CC0_jpe-1412742.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/764305CA-2349-49AD-A53A-F99DE2F35004_jpe-1412744.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/18EA1152-8AA0-4915-851F-D0F7E2C27CB3_jpe-1412745.JPG View Quote Looks like the makings of a pearl necklace to me. |
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Originally Posted By Socio: Simple, the flip the switch, give us two weeks to descend into complete chaos, walk in and take over. View Quote Not that simple. Taking down our grid won’t be that fast, and they won’t be able to just walk in. The military will have something to say. As will the populace when people start punching third holes and installing fun switches in defense of the homeland, and then the Chinese get to enjoy knowing how many guns we actually do have. Or did have, before we took theirs. Can you say new amnesty for war trophies? |
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Originally Posted By Consigli: The election of Biden will mark the end of the American Empire. He will apologize, sell us out and capitulate. Our own fellow Americans will have put the chinese dagger in our backs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Consigli: Originally Posted By Biscuit42: China is not our biggest threat as Americans. Our elected politicians are the real problem that needs to be delt with before anything. The swamp is thick The election of Biden will mark the end of the American Empire. He will apologize, sell us out and capitulate. Our own fellow Americans will have put the chinese dagger in our backs. True, if Biden Then taking this country will be like taking candy from a baby for China. |
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