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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:10:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Shotguns work.
ARs work better. If you can choose one, you should choose the better one. There is literally no redeeming factor of a shotgun over a rifle, even if you're limited to 10 round magazines or some silly BS like that. .32 caliber projectiles @ 1100fps is roughly equivalent to a 9mm, but I don't see you shotgun aficionados touting the "meat from bone" effectiveness of a PCC. Or just dual wield Keltec P-32's. You get your hurr-durr .30cal and you get box mags. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:14:31 AM EDT
[#2]
This one isn't feeling right. Too forced.
We need some more 'tard up in this bitch. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:18:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Meat...from...bone
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:18:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really, because after the ARs I own, the only other intermediate large capacity rifle is the AK. I did say SECOND choice (after my other Ars) and it's better than a pointy stick. Sorry I fail with the 1911 and my other weapons. I guess I'm doomed to death if I ever have to use them because you think they're inadequate  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1911s are God's gun. Could not agree more with you.  AR's ARE THE SHIT I HAVE A FAL Gaston Glock sold his soul to the debil  Here's another can of worms. My go to pistol ( thought I love my glock 22) is a custom 1911. My favorite battle rifle (non scoped) is my L1A1. And my second choice depending on mood for social work is the AK.  Really, because after the ARs I own, the only other intermediate large capacity rifle is the AK. I did say SECOND choice (after my other Ars) and it's better than a pointy stick. Sorry I fail with the 1911 and my other weapons. I guess I'm doomed to death if I ever have to use them because you think they're inadequate |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:23:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And my second choice depending on mood for social work is the AK. So much fail. Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... I once had to live in a construction yard trailer for a month in a very bad part of town. the yard was about 75 yards square. My preferred go to gun was an under folder AK.. the AK was also very compact in the trailer. I have a very nice AR but I did not want to leave it in my car all day at work. The 7.62X39 round is far superior for going thru shit like the old vehicles and misc junk and construction materials that were scattered about the place. At 75-100 yards I would have had no problem hitting or penetrating anything. The concept of choice is based upon terrain. AK ammo is fail. Unless it's chambered in a western cartridge. Then you just have to worry about the fail inherent in the AK's design. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:30:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's also far superior for going through people and not causing much more than straight holes in them. It's a great load for icepick wounds and not incapacitating the target. AK ammo is fail. Unless it's chambered in a western cartridge. Then you just have to worry about the fail inherent in the AK's design. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And my second choice depending on mood for social work is the AK. So much fail. Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... I once had to live in a construction yard trailer for a month in a very bad part of town. the yard was about 75 yards square. My preferred go to gun was an under folder AK.. the AK was also very compact in the trailer. I have a very nice AR but I did not want to leave it in my car all day at work. The 7.62X39 round is far superior for going thru shit like the old vehicles and misc junk and construction materials that were scattered about the place. At 75-100 yards I would have had no problem hitting or penetrating anything. The concept of choice is based upon terrain. AK ammo is fail. Unless it's chambered in a western cartridge. Then you just have to worry about the fail inherent in the AK's design. Not to get too off track here but why do AK pushers always act like the AR15 pattern rifle only comes in .223/5.56? Never fails... |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:32:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to get too off track here but why do AK pushers always act like the AR15 pattern rifle only comes in .223/5.56? Never fails... Because they are either stupid or ignorant. But that is why they are pushing AKs in the first place. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:33:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This one isn't feeling right. Too forced. We need some more 'tard up in this bitch. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:34:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they are either stupid or ignorant. But that is why they are pushing AKs in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not to get too off track here but why do AK pushers always act like the AR15 pattern rifle only comes in .223/5.56? Never fails... Because they are either stupid or ignorant. But that is why they are pushing AKs in the first place. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:34:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask?
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:37:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shotguns work. ARs work better. If you can choose one, you should choose the better one. There is literally no redeeming factor of a shotgun over a rifle, even if you're limited to 10 round magazines or some silly BS like that. .32 caliber projectiles @ 1100fps is roughly equivalent to a 9mm, but I don't see you shotgun aficionados touting the "meat from bone" effectiveness of a PCC. Or just dual wield Keltec P-32's. You get your hurr-durr .30cal and you get box mags. I agree pretty much with this. That being said I don't think the day of the shotgun has come to it's end. Too many of them out there for cheap and ammo is literally on every shelf. And lastly must say this as it usually gets the bowels blowing from the shotgun haters...In my life I have known two guys that were shot absolutely dead with birdshot. I don't recommend it but it can and is frequently quite lethal. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 That'd be great for Cola Warrior. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:40:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Shotgun: Heavy recoil, low capacity, slow follow up shots, good terminal performance, severe over penetration with 00 buckshot, underpenetration with any grade of bird shot or #4 buck.
Handgun: Light recoil, low to medium capacity, rapid follow up shots, bad terminal performance, severe over penetration with hollow points, more severe over penetrations with FMJ.
AR15: Light recoil, high capacity, rapid follow up shots, good terminal performance, least severe over penetration of the three with proper ammunition. All three work. AR15s or other 223 rifles work better. If you're poor, a shotgun is a great choice since you can get a good one for under $200 used. Otherwise join the 21st century. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:51:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I locked my door. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:52:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Beware the Geese Police.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:55:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I won't use an AR cause I dont trust anything that shits where it eats. That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. Next was failure to return fully into battery. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:01:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Too bad this hasn't been explained a thousand times.
What is the best weapon for home defense, a serious discussion. Read and learn. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:06:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I won't use an AR cause I dont trust anything that shits where it eats. That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. I've never seen an AR with a stuck case in a filthy assed chamber. The only times I really hear about it are early M-16s that had filthy powder and no chrome lining, and guns that are used to shoot a ton of steel cased shit ammo, then switched over to brass without a cleaning first. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:09:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I won't use an AR cause I dont trust anything that shits where it eats. That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. Stop hanging out with poor people who buy shitty rifles, hang all sorts of goofy crap off of them, make pointless modifications, and then run the worst ammo they can find through them. A $799 AR15 from a reputable manufacturer is dead nuts reliable. The fact that this silly "shit where it eats" trope is still played out blows my fucking mind. You don't need to do ANYTHING to an LMT, BCM, Colt, S&W, etc. rifle to have it run properly, right out of the box. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#20]
lol
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:13:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:16:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:19:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:21:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you're where all the statistical anomalies go. I've never seen an AR with a stuck case in a filthy assed chamber. The only times I really hear about it are early M-16s that had filthy powder and no chrome lining, and guns that are used to shoot a ton of steel cased shit ammo, then switched over to brass without a cleaning first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I won't use an AR cause I dont trust anything that shits where it eats. That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. I've never seen an AR with a stuck case in a filthy assed chamber. The only times I really hear about it are early M-16s that had filthy powder and no chrome lining, and guns that are used to shoot a ton of steel cased shit ammo, then switched over to brass without a cleaning first. The only time I've ever experienced a casing "stuck" in the AR receiver was because of a poor quality bolt and a dumb ass that cleaned it. Seems the dumb ass put the bolt in backwards, so that it was ejecting into itself, as opposed to the opening (To the right), which forced me to reach inside of it and pry the casing off the bolt/extractor. I'm a bit shocked that the bolt permitted the cam pin from being inserted, despite the bolt being in wrong. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:22:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Price is the biggest issue for most people. For a non-gun person, dropping $200 on a Mossberg 500 is easier than $800 on an AR15.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:23:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/00036687-00001.png I have no idea what this meme means. The only reference I know referring to screen doors is the phrase "I would bang you like a screen door during a hurricane". You're buying me dinner first. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:23:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. I'm going with this. I had a gunshop commando the other day tell me that I should keep a 12 gauge loaded with birdshot for home defense. He then went on to tell me how people tell him they keep AR15s, scoffed, and said they'd be killing people two houses away due to overpenetration. I was suitably impressed with their 5.56 loads that penetrate multiple walls and kept my mouth shut, lest I get into an argument with the guy that I didn't care to. Personally I keep an AR stoked with 77gr. I guess I'm the dangerous asshole in my neighborhood. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:24:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. Next was failure to return fully into battery. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I won't use an AR cause I dont trust anything that shits where it eats. That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. Next was failure to return fully into battery. Getting warmer..... |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:25:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea what this meme means. The only reference I know referring to screen doors is the phrase "I would bang you like a screen door during a hurricane". You're buying me dinner first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/00036687-00001.png I have no idea what this meme means. The only reference I know referring to screen doors is the phrase "I would bang you like a screen door during a hurricane". You're buying me dinner first. Only if you promise you"ll relieve my ghost load after |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:25:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/00036687-00001.png 
ETA: Is it "wrong" that I have a file in my media folder labeled "screen doors" just in case one of these dumpster fires breaks out? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:26:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be deliberately obtuse. Do you see above where I was clearly talking about use "for HD"? I WISH I had enough money to have a house where a 1000 yard shot was even in the conversation, but that's so ludicrous that bringing in 1000 yard shots to a reply to someone talking about HD is just asinine. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. You don't say? 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:27:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For use in home defense, a shotgun with 00 or 0 buck is the most destructive - deadly thing you can use short of grenades or claymores... The AR has more capacity and more range and more precision. At inside the house distances, the 12 gauge shotgun will do more with one pull of the trigger than anything else... I'm sure I will get flamed for it  but if I hear glass break at oh-dark-thirty, I'm picking up the 870. BIGGER_HAMMER  |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:29:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes I use 2 1911s and leave my ring impression on their face.  |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:30:04 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:30:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only time I've ever experienced a casing "stuck" in the AR receiver was because of a poor quality bolt and a dumb ass that cleaned it. Seems the dumb ass put the bolt in backwards, so that it was ejecting into itself, as opposed to the opening (To the right), which forced me to reach inside of it and pry the casing off the bolt/extractor. I'm a bit shocked that the bolt permitted the cam pin from being inserted, despite the bolt being in wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I won't use an AR cause I dont trust anything that shits where it eats. That's silly too if you're not being sarcastic. I've never had anything in my mil or civvy side experiences over the years that was not ammo/mag related for a malfunction. I tried to torture an A2 once, got guilty and detailed it after doing nothing but light lube to prevent rust for a year. No failures. Even the "experts" on the platform recommend putting heavier spring and buffer packages in them so that they can talk with their mouths full of shit. Not for me. Nothing wrong with the gun for poodle shooting. Hell nothing wrong with the 5.56 in it's various loadings, but In my life I've seen more failures in ARs than any other gun to include high end 1911's. Most were stuck cases in a filthy assed chamber. I've never seen an AR with a stuck case in a filthy assed chamber. The only times I really hear about it are early M-16s that had filthy powder and no chrome lining, and guns that are used to shoot a ton of steel cased shit ammo, then switched over to brass without a cleaning first. The only time I've ever experienced a casing "stuck" in the AR receiver was because of a poor quality bolt and a dumb ass that cleaned it. Seems the dumb ass put the bolt in backwards, so that it was ejecting into itself, as opposed to the opening (To the right), which forced me to reach inside of it and pry the casing off the bolt/extractor. I'm a bit shocked that the bolt permitted the cam pin from being inserted, despite the bolt being in wrong. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:33:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You've been watching too much television, friend... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Doolinbody.png Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. You've been watching too much television, friend... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Doolinbody.png Here, let me post a pic, since that's somehow a cogent argument over in the other 'verse.  |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:40:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here, let me post a pic, since that's somehow a cogent argument over in the other 'verse. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg Ew. That pink paint is horrific. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:48:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Everyone I know that advocates a shotgun for home defense has never tried to fire a shotgun other than slow-fire at a range at a static target. Everyone I know that advocates *not* using a shotgun for home defense is qualified on them as military or LEO.
That tells me everything I need to know. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:49:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, really. You post a pic, so fucking what? Here, let me post a pic, since that's somehow a cogent argument over in the other 'verse. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. You've been watching too much television, friend... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Doolinbody.png Here, let me post a pic, since that's somehow a cogent argument over in the other 'verse. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg The link you're using references this as a sniper shot. That almost certainly means that was a 7.62 NATO round that parted that particular Red Sea, and if that's a pic from Vietnam then that didn't come out of an AR. Not that it matters since pretty much every caliber will put a bad guy down after a head shot, even .a 22 round. Remember Robert Kennedy? 
You're the self styled expert in terminal ballistics here and I'm the supposed fucktard. Why the hell am the one who has to explain that to you? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:50:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryYou watch too many movies. This guy was DRT with a .380. It's clearly superior to a shotgun. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:54:46 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ew. That pink paint is horrific. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here, let me post a pic, since that's somehow a cogent argument over in the other 'verse. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg Ew. That pink paint is horrific. Amen. He probably shot himself after he came home and found out his wife had painted the walls that color. I would. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:54:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Never worked in the oilfield have you? I can fix anything with a 15 inch crescent lol, it'll even cut rope.
Seriously you're right there isn't a single solution to every problem and anyone who thinks there is needs mental help. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:56:59 AM EDT
[#43]
To the heavy vs lighter bullet folks:
The amount of people who can accurately kill a man with a rifle at 1000 meters is low on this site. I'm sure 99% of you are saying "no way, I can do it", but no, you can't. Yes, there are some of you who legitimately have the skill or training to do so, but the rest of you are deluding yourselves. Go ahead and put me on ignore. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:05:15 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To the heavy vs lighter bullet folks: The amount of people who can accurately kill a man with a rifle at 1000 meters is low on this site. I'm sure 99% of you are saying "no way, I can do it", but no, you can't. Yes, there are some of you who legitimately have the skill or training to do so, but the rest of you are deluding yourselves. Go ahead and put me on ignore. Im good to about 450 with a scope and about 300 with irons. I don't normally use a scope but lately have found it's easier. I think I must be getting old. edit: by good I mean I can reliably hit a man sized target in the center mass/vitals at that range, the kill would depend on them. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:06:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With #1 buckshot, you get 150 pellets in a mag + 1 + ghost-loaded. 150 pellets in 10 rounds that can be emptied in a few seconds. No subgun or AR will ever match that kind of firepower. hahahahahahah 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:06:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You watch too many movies. This guy was DRT with a .380. It's clearly superior to a shotgun. https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/trayvon-twitter-acct.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
You watch too many movies. This guy was DRT with a .380. It's clearly superior to a shotgun. https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/trayvon-twitter-acct.jpg If you're going to compare single projectile shots to the head with shotgun blasts to the chest then at least do it right: 
Which person is more dead, the guy that took the shotgun blast to the chest or the guy who took a single round to the head? The only difference I see is how much needs to be cleaned up after the "dead" part comes in. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:06:16 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bad guy holding your wife in front of him as a hostage. Gun to head/knife to throat/whatever... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, I'm off to bed. I'd like to make clear I don't believe or advocate the shotgun retardery that's commonly said in social circles. I happen to have the 590 out, and if something goes bump in the night that's what I grab. If you have (and I have had) an AR for a night stand gun than power to you. I have my reasons and I prefer the 590. I don't think I am disadvantaged for any reasonable scenario in the house by using it, and I don't think that anyone breaking in would think me a laughing stock facing that same 590. Night boys. Bad guy holding your wife in front of him as a hostage. Gun to head/knife to throat/whatever... and I'm sure that every AR owner here has actually shot his AR at ultra close range and knows exactly how much P.O.I. deviation he has a 10 feet Vs. his 300 meter zeros. BIGGER_HAMMER
Obligatory Shoot The Hostage Pic... 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:06:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amen. He probably shot himself after he came home and found out his wife had painted the walls that color. I would. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here, let me post a pic, since that's somehow a cogent argument over in the other 'verse. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg Ew. That pink paint is horrific. Amen. He probably shot himself after he came home and found out his wife had painted the walls that color. I would. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:08:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guys who have done force on force stuff will usually tell you that people get shot in the hands all the fucking time. We have a member here who got shot in the hand. I know it sounds dumb, but play some airsoft. You will take a shot in the hand/wrist/arm way more than you will anywhere else for some reason. If that happens with a pump gun, you're a dead man. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What happens if your AR takes a hit in the receiver and wont function? What happens if he has a sawed off and takes your support/primary hand off? What happens if you take a hit in the neck/head? What happens if you are using a pistol and take a hit in one of your extremities? Plenty of academic what ifs and they are infinite. I'l rack with a wounded hand/arm. If I can't I'll rack on another surface. All just as likely. Guys who have done force on force stuff will usually tell you that people get shot in the hands all the fucking time. We have a member here who got shot in the hand. I know it sounds dumb, but play some airsoft. You will take a shot in the hand/wrist/arm way more than you will anywhere else for some reason. If that happens with a pump gun, you're a dead man. No, you can still pump a shotgun with either hand one handed. This is covered in training. Evidently you don't know about this... The agent who killed Platt in the FBI shoot out was wounded in his hand / forearm and still used a Remington 870 pump gun one handed to take out the bad guy... BIGGER_HAMMER
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:10:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can understand wanting a shotgun if your home defense plan involves breaching doors within your own house. But what are the chances the geesemen being able to lock your doors inside your house with their long feathery fingers? 
I say, it does make you wonder |
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