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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:15:16 PM EDT
[#1]
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Oh yeah, why's that Captain? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's one of the dumbest things I have ever read. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:15:32 PM EDT
[#2]
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Dunno man, it's pretty early in the week yet.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's one of the dumbest things I have ever read. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:21:19 PM EDT
[#3]
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Yeah seriously, its not like the fawking thing is invisible or was traveling in some contested waters doing stealth shit. there would have been several dozen ships, from what the experts in this thread are saying about the congestion in that area, that would have been tracking the navy ship along with all the others in their proximity. Im not suggesting relaeasing its whereabounts for the proceeding week but the tracking for the proceeding hour would unlikely compromise national security. Unless of course the Navy already knows they are at fault and dont want to provide any evidence that could be incriminating. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:22:28 PM EDT
[#4]
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Knowing where something is in real time via visual ID is one thing. We can all drive by Norfolk naval base and see the ships sitting in port, and mariners may encounter a naval vessel on radar or visual on occasion. That's different than the military ships broadcasting their AIS where it's logged and publicly available via several websites and accurate within a few meters in almost real time. I'm pretty confident military vessels do not use AIS, so you're not going to see them on a track like the cargo carrier (even delayed, as you suggest). You either broadcast AIS or you don't - there's no "here's where I was an hour ago" setting. 
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:23:50 PM EDT
[#5]
I didn't read 13 pages, has anyone covered the terrorist angle? Intentional ramming?
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:27:13 PM EDT
[#6]
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I didn't read 13 pages, has anyone covered the terrorist angle? Intentional ramming? "Achmed, see that BMW M3 driving across the parking lot? Go run over it with this steam roller." |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:27:27 PM EDT
[#7]
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I didn't read 13 pages, has anyone covered the terrorist angle? Intentional ramming? |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:36:34 PM EDT
[#8]
'They did what they were trained to do': Mom of Navy sailor who survived collision between USS Fitzgerald and a cargo ship
says her son tried to save his shipmates until the flooded berth ran out of air. More 
The ACX Crystal, which is 730 feet long and weighs 29,060 tons, is back in Tokyo with superficial damage and no reports of casualties. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 6:42:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 6/18/2017 7:40:24 PM EDT
[#10]
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Knowing where something is in real time via visual ID is one thing. We can all drive by Norfolk naval base and see the ships sitting in port, and mariners may encounter a naval vessel on radar or visual on occasion. That's different than the military ships broadcasting their AIS where it's logged and publicly available via several websites and accurate within a few meters in almost real time. I'm pretty confident military vessels do not use AIS, so you're not going to see them on a track like the cargo carrier (even delayed, as you suggest). You either broadcast AIS or you don't - there's no "here's where I was an hour ago" setting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah seriously, its not like the fawking thing is invisible or was traveling in some contested waters doing stealth shit. there would have been several dozen ships, from what the experts in this thread are saying about the congestion in that area, that would have been tracking the navy ship along with all the others in their proximity. Im not suggesting relaeasing its whereabounts for the proceeding week but the tracking for the proceeding hour would unlikely compromise national security. Unless of course the Navy already knows they are at fault and dont want to provide any evidence that could be incriminating. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 7:51:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Every photo I've seen of the Fitz has people on deck, while the container ship is always clear of people. Did they assess no substantial damage and carry on? I haven't seen a single pic where anybody is on deck at all.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:01:51 PM EDT
[#12]
U.S. Navy Identifies 7 Deceased Fitzgerald Sailors
Story Number: NNS170618-03Release Date: 6/18/2017 7:30:00 PM From U.S. 7th Fleet Public Affairs YOKOSUKA, Japan (NNS) -- The remains of seven Sailors previously reported missing were located in flooded berthing compartments, after divers gained access to the spaces, June 18, that were damaged when USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with the Philippine-flagged merchant vessel ACX Crystal. The deceased are: - Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia - Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, from San Diego, California - Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut - Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez, 26, from Weslaco, Texas - Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlosvictor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, from Chula Vista, California - Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland - Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, from Elyria, Ohio The incident is currently under investigation. 
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:05:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Statement from Acting Secretary of the Navy Sean Stackley
Story Number: NNS170618-04Release Date: 6/18/2017 7:41:00 PM From Office of the Secretary of the Navy WASHINGTON (NNS) -- We are all deeply saddened by the tragic loss of our fellow shipmates as a result of Friday's collision between USS Fitzgerald and a commercial container ship, and our thoughts and prayers are with their families. As details emerge, we can all be proud of the heroic effort by the crew to tend to the needs of those injured and save the ship from further damage while returning safely to port. The Navy family comes together during tragic events such as this and I want to thank those who continue to provide around-the-clock assistance to the affected families during these difficult days. I also want to express my most heartfelt appreciation to our Japanese allies for their swift support and assistance at this time of our need. In due time, the United States Navy will fully investigate the cause of this tragedy and I ask all of you to keep the Fitzgerald families in your thoughts and prayers as we begin the task of answering the many questions before us. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:07:36 PM EDT
[#14]
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Knowing where something is in real time via visual ID is one thing. We can all drive by Norfolk naval base and see the ships sitting in port, and mariners may encounter a naval vessel on radar or visual on occasion. That's different than the military ships broadcasting their AIS where it's logged and publicly available via several websites and accurate within a few meters in almost real time. I'm pretty confident military vessels do not use AIS, so you're not going to see them on a track like the cargo carrier (even delayed, as you suggest). You either broadcast AIS or you don't - there's no "here's where I was an hour ago" setting. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:13:54 PM EDT
[#15]
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Thank You. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ever mistype in your life Read it again, he forgot the T As in aren't too severe For fucks sake |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:17:12 PM EDT
[#16]
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Every photo I've seen of the Fitz has people on deck, while the container ship is always clear of people. Did they assess no substantial damage and carry on? I haven't seen a single pic where anybody is on deck at all. RIP sailors 
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:18:23 PM EDT
[#17]
The ACX Crystal sails under the flag of the Philippines, and its home port is Manila, according to MarineTraffic.The Nippon Yusen Kaisha company lists a vessel schedule for ACX Crystal showing multiple stops in Japan. One
of the world’s oldest and largest shipping companies, NYK was founded in 1885 with a fleet of 58 steamships. NYK says on its website that ACX Crystal is nine years old.Maritime records have previously listed the ship as being registered to Sinbanali Shipping, Inc. The container ship was built in South Korea.According to Maritime Bulletin, “Container ship ACX CRYSTAL though Philippines-flagged, said to be operated by Japanese NYK. Her damages though substantial, aren’t too serious, let alone critical.” CNN reported that “the container ship was operating under charter to a Japanese shipping company.” Specifically, reported CNN, “The ACX Crystal container ship is chartered by Japanese shipping company Nippon Yusen Kabushiki Kaisha (NYK) and owned by Dainichi-Invest Corporation, NYK said.” More |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:28:04 PM EDT
[#18]
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U.S. Navy Identifies 7 Deceased Fitzgerald Sailors Story Number: NNS170618-03Release Date: 6/18/2017 7:30:00 PM From U.S. 7th Fleet Public Affairs YOKOSUKA, Japan (NNS) -- The remains of seven Sailors previously reported missing were located in flooded berthing compartments, after divers gained access to the spaces, June 18, that were damaged when USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with the Philippine-flagged merchant vessel ACX Crystal. The deceased are: - Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia - Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, from San Diego, California - Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut - Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez, 26, from Weslaco, Texas - Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlosvictor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, from Chula Vista, California - Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland - Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, from Elyria, Ohio The incident is currently under investigation. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:36:15 PM EDT
[#19]
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can't believe they can just ram and sail away, as if nothing has happened? hit and run on the sea? |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:51:57 PM EDT
[#20]
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Our AIS units have a receive only mode. In congested waters, such as going in and out of port, we will turn the transmit feature on, though. 
I'm sticking with class B on the new build, but did have a toggle built in to stop transmit and just receive. I'll probably use transmit while running, but turn off when at isolated anchorages. I assumed military vessels are MUCH more sparing on the transmit side. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:53:43 PM EDT
[#21]
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Do you have a link for that? I want to send that out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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U.S. Navy Identifies 7 Deceased Fitzgerald Sailors Story Number: NNS170618-03Release Date: 6/18/2017 7:30:00 PM From U.S. 7th Fleet Public Affairs YOKOSUKA, Japan (NNS) -- The remains of seven Sailors previously reported missing were located in flooded berthing compartments, after divers gained access to the spaces, June 18, that were damaged when USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with the Philippine-flagged merchant vessel ACX Crystal. The deceased are: - Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia - Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, from San Diego, California - Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut - Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez, 26, from Weslaco, Texas - Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlosvictor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, from Chula Vista, California - Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland - Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, from Elyria, Ohio The incident is currently under investigation. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:58:25 PM EDT
[#22]
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So you're not getting banned? |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 9:41:18 PM EDT
[#23]
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Every photo I've seen of the Fitz has people on deck, while the container ship is always clear of people. Did they assess no substantial damage and carry on? I haven't seen a single pic where anybody is on deck at all. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 9:50:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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English, please, for those of us that have never been in the Navy. Thanks, And once again for the Seven Sailors: Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nine on watch. Capt. can be there any time he likes. Officer of the Deck, Jr. OOD, Helm, Lee Helm, BMOW, messenger, port & starboard lookouts, at least one QM. My info may be outdated... The JOOD was probably a butterbar fresh from Anapolis and thought his mighty warship had the right of way over everything on the High Seas. That's what happened with some horrible accident in the Med when a DDG(?) expected a carrier to change course for them c. 1980. The helmsman threw the rudder over to full and saved the smaller ship from sinking, but there was a huge conflagration and at least one other DDG was called in to assist. Thanks, And once again for the Seven Sailors:
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:12:28 PM EDT
[#25]
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English, please, for those of us that have never been in the Navy. Thanks, And once again for the Seven Sailors: Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nine on watch. Capt. can be there any time he likes. Officer of the Deck, Jr. OOD, Helm, Lee Helm, BMOW, messenger, port & starboard lookouts, at least one QM. My info may be outdated... The JOOD was probably a butterbar fresh from Anapolis and thought his mighty warship had the right of way over everything on the High Seas. That's what happened with some horrible accident in the Med when a DDG(?) expected a carrier to change course for them c. 1980. The helmsman threw the rudder over to full and saved the smaller ship from sinking, but there was a huge conflagration and at least one other DDG was called in to assist. Thanks, And once again for the Seven Sailors: The Lee Helm position uses the station in the pic below to transfer orders to the engin room. The big handles can be thought of as "gears", back or ahead 1/3, 2/3, Standard, Full, and Flank. There is also a 3 digit counter to set the RPM on the shafts. 
Bosun Mate of the Watch (BMOW) is in charge of the enlisted men on the bridge, other than the Quartermasters. The QMs are in charge of plotting courses and handling precision navigation (e.g. plotting the precise location of the ship every few minutes when coming in and out of port). The messenger is just that, a runner. Might get sent for coffee, or to wake the Captain per his standing orders. Based on a previous reply, the Burke class may only be running one lookout forward, instead of two. There's an aft lookout as well but, while part of the bridge watch, they're not on the bridge. They're on the fantail or on the 01 level aft. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:22:27 PM EDT
[#26]
OK, thanks!
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:23:48 PM EDT
[#27]
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Missing Sailors found dead: (CNN)All seven missing sailors from the USS Fitzgerald were found dead in flooded berthing compartments following the warship's collision with a merchant vessel, a US Navy official told CNN on Saturday. http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/17/us/missing-sailors-found/index.html
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:32:52 PM EDT
[#28]
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Every photo I've seen of the Fitz has people on deck, while the container ship is always clear of people. Did they assess no substantial damage and carry on? I haven't seen a single pic where anybody is on deck at all. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:43:16 PM EDT
[#29]
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@Merlin The Lee Helm position uses the station in the pic below to transfer orders to the engin room. The big handles can be thought of as "gears", back or ahead 1/3, 2/3, Standard, Full, and Flank. There is also a 3 digit counter to set the RPM on the shafts. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/US_Navy_111101-N-YX169-007_Seaman_Apprentice_Nicholas_Flores_stands_watch_at_the_lee_helm_aboard_the_amphibious_transport_dock_ship_USS_Ponce_%28LPD.jpg Bosun Mate of the Watch (BMOW) is in charge of the enlisted men on the bridge, other than the Quartermasters. The QMs are in charge of plotting courses and handling precision navigation (e.g. plotting the precise location of the ship every few minutes when coming in and out of port). The messenger is just that, a runner. Might get sent for coffee, or to wake the Captain per his standing orders. Based on a previous reply, the Burke class may only be running one lookout forward, instead of two. There's an aft lookout as well but, while part of the bridge watch, they're not on the bridge. They're on the fantail or on the 01 level aft. |
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:45:08 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 6/18/2017 11:17:59 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 6/18/2017 11:38:27 PM EDT
[#32]
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Our AIS units have a receive only mode. In congested waters, such as going in and out of port, we will turn the transmit feature on, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Knowing where something is in real time via visual ID is one thing. We can all drive by Norfolk naval base and see the ships sitting in port, and mariners may encounter a naval vessel on radar or visual on occasion. That's different than the military ships broadcasting their AIS where it's logged and publicly available via several websites and accurate within a few meters in almost real time. I'm pretty confident military vessels do not use AIS, so you're not going to see them on a track like the cargo carrier (even delayed, as you suggest). You either broadcast AIS or you don't - there's no "here's where I was an hour ago" setting. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:26:50 AM EDT
[#33]
I've seen a post purportedly from the mother of a sailor off the Fitzgerald alleging that the container ship was running dark (obviously it was broadcasting AIS, so I'm not sure how "dark" it could have been).
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:32:06 AM EDT
[#34]
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I've seen a post purportedly from the mother of a sailor off the Fitzgerald alleging that the container ship was running dark (obviously it was broadcasting AIS, so I'm not sure how "dark" it could have been). I'm going with misinformed at best, as we can clearly watch the AIS track. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:45:37 AM EDT
[#35]
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I've seen a post purportedly from the mother of a sailor off the Fitzgerald alleging that the container ship was running dark (obviously it was broadcasting AIS, so I'm not sure how "dark" it could have been). AIS is relatively new. Ship's made it for years with good ole radar |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:58:33 AM EDT
[#36]
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Iran 655 was not squawking f-14 IFF. It was squawking civilian airliner IFF, was in an air lane ascending, and shouldn't have been shot down. They thought they were being attacked because someone read a scope wrong and that misreading cued a bunch of other screwups throughout CIC. There was an F-14 IFF code that popped up in CIC once, probably ducted from Bandar Abbas (where the aircraft came from), but it was never confirmed and never came from that aircraft. The investigation report has been online for at least a decade. Go read it before you make up stories. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pretty sure the US shot an innocent airliner out of the fucking sky one time. So did the Russians. There was an F-14 IFF code that popped up in CIC once, probably ducted from Bandar Abbas (where the aircraft came from), but it was never confirmed and never came from that aircraft. The investigation report has been online for at least a decade. Go read it before you make up stories. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 7:22:58 AM EDT
[#37]
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I know it's becoming more common in the lower end recreational world to run AIS only, and no Radar. The USCG will scare the crap out of recreational boaters doing that in the middle of the night, just slipping up and seeing what's going on. It may be the case that the Cargo ship was not running radar, the DDG was almost certainly not transmitting AIS, and thus the Cargo ship had no idea they were there. The container ship would have been outfitted with at least two radars, and it's a virtual certainty they were on. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 7:27:30 AM EDT
[#38]
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No. You don't do collision avoidance by GPS. You have radar and windows. Especially windows. 
And .mil GPS meaconing is next to impossible now that the new M-code only (encrypted) GPS units are out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I haven't read all 12 pages to see if it's been asked, but what if someone GPS spoofed them into that ship? Wouldn't be the first time NAVY GPS has been spoofed by foreign states. IRAN comes to mind, and the NORK's aren't too far away.
And .mil GPS meaconing is next to impossible now that the new M-code only (encrypted) GPS units are out. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 7:31:08 AM EDT
[#39]
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I would be very surprised if that's true about not using radar. If it's on the boat and it's not broken, people use it when underway, even the guys in center consoles. The container ship would have been outfitted with at least two radars, and it's a virtual certainty they were on. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 7:32:19 AM EDT
[#40]
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I've never even seen a LORAN reciever in person, and I still had to do that BS on my first license exam. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Somewhat off topic, since there seems to be a lot of good information here, was the decision to discontinue LORAN as a backup to GPS as bad as everyone has suggested? Yes, I'm old. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 7:37:40 AM EDT
[#41]
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The Fitzgerald would have someone maintaining the surface plot as well as a track supervisor acting as backup to the surface search operator. Even if the container ship wasn't equipped or operating its RADARs the Fitzgerald would have a surface plot of every ship including CPA within its search and tracking range. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would be very surprised if that's true about not using radar. If it's on the boat and it's not broken, people use it when underway, even the guys in center consoles. The container ship would have been outfitted with at least two radars, and it's a virtual certainty they were on. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 7:43:37 AM EDT
[#42]
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Every ship at sea is running radar, especially thee Navy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would be very surprised if that's true about not using radar. If it's on the boat and it's not broken, people use it when underway, even the guys in center consoles. The container ship would have been outfitted with at least two radars, and it's a virtual certainty they were on. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 8:28:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Fox is reporting that the Japan Coast Guard wants to determine why it took almost an hour for the incident to be reported. This would explain the discrepancy between the track and the reported incident time.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 9:07:25 AM EDT
[#44]
Good primer on the maritime here:
https://warontherocks.com/2017/06/how-could-this-happen-the-fitzgerald-the-u-s-navy-and-collisions-at-sea/ Sometimes, the weather and waves conspire to create cluttered radar pictures. Such clutter is especially prevalent close to the ship, and this clutter can sometimes mask ships especially small ones, or contribute to not being able to hold a steady track on a contact, thereby creating a confusing evaluation of its course and speed.
On occasion — again, because of the presence of humans in the decision loop — plainly obvious situations are misinterpreted because of confirmation bias: Anomalous information might not match the mental picture that a bridge watch-stander has developed, and is then ignored. A classic case of this happening was the October 1996 collision involving the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 72) and the USS Leyte Gulf (CG 55). Essentially, the Roosevelt “backed down” into the Leyte Gulf while, unbeknownst to the Leyte’s watch-standers, conducting engineering drills. The radar picture told a story of a massive aircraft carrier moving astern at a high rate of speed, but the mental picture of the bridge personnel on the Leyte — who did not know that such a maneuver was going to happen — disregarded what their system was telling them, and they failed to turn in sufficient time to avoid collision. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 9:38:09 AM EDT
[#45]
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YOKOSUKA, Japan — The mother of a U.S. Navy sailor who survived a direct hit to his sleeping berth during a collision at sea said her son kept diving to try to save his shipmates until the flooded berth began running out of air pockets, while others — believing the ship was under attack — hurried to man the guns. Mia Sykes of Raleigh, North Carolina, told The Associated Press on Sunday that her 19-year-old son, Brayden Harden, was knocked out of his bunk by the impact, and water immediately began filling the berth, after their destroyer, the USS Fitzgerald, collided with a Philippine-flagged container ship four times its size off the Japanese coast. The ships collided about 2:20 a.m. Saturday, when the Navy said most of the 300 sailors on board would have been sleeping, and authorities have declined to speculate on a cause while the crash remains under investigation. Sykes says her son told her that four men in his berth, including those sleeping on bunks above and below him died, while three died in the berth above his. “They did what they were trained to do,” said Sykes, who said she hopes her son, from Herrin, Illinois, can come home to be with family as he works through what happened. “You have to realize most of them are 18, 19 and 20-year-olds living with guilt. But I told him, ‘There’s a reason you’re still here and make that count.’ ” http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/navy-says-bodies-of-missing-sailors-found-inside-uss-fitzgerald/ They were likely going to their General Quarters stations when the alarm sounded. That's not unusual. Once the ship is at General Quarters the firecontrol/weapons people would be retasked to DC. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 9:38:58 AM EDT
[#46]
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I didn't read 13 pages, has anyone covered the terrorist angle? Intentional ramming? Are there Japanese terrorists now? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 9:50:33 AM EDT
[#47]
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Are there Japanese terrorists now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't read 13 pages, has anyone covered the terrorist angle? Intentional ramming? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 9:56:18 AM EDT
[#48]
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Are there Japanese terrorists now? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:15:34 AM EDT
[#49]
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Pretty sure the US shot an innocent airliner out of the fucking sky one time. So did the Russians. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:23:02 AM EDT
[#50]
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There are actually, but that doesn't seem like the case here. I'm not talking about he sarin gas in the subway type moonbats, and you know that. |
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