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Quoted: Fucking cowards. Fucking running away from a classroom full of kids as soon as you take a couple of incoming rounds? Fucking gas mask on one of those retards? Fucking hand sanitizer while an active shooter is in a classroom 30 feet away? Fucking standing there with rifles, body armor and ballistic shields? Fuck every single one of them from the top to the bottom. View Quote They did all this while knowing, actually knowing that children are being actively murdered. |
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View Quote This is the LEO who's wife was shot in the classroom. She's the one who texted him and why he checked one of his phones. Though he has two phones, one in the left pocket and one on the right. |
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Quoted: Yes, that's what he said and that's the husband of one of the slain teachers. This is worse than thought, even he walked away. He couldn't even leeroy jenkins that shit to get to his wife. He just stepped out of the building. The cop who's daughter was in the classroom seemed to do the same, just wait it out in the hallway. If they couldn't even go in for their loved ones, those kids were pretty much screwed. View Quote Agree! I was flabbergasted when he was identified in the video. WTF man, your loved one is in harm's way, and you just stood there. I'd have gone fukkin ballistic and shoot my way out of those MF'ers hands and go in. |
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Those kids were dead in that first 2.5 minutes he started shooting into the classrooms. Major failure because it took an hour to stop the threat. Its your duty as a civilian in your community to know who your neighbors are. When everyone communicates you have the ability to react and protect.
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Quoted: What you said is the biggest crock of shit ever posted. If you are correct, there is zero point in having police. You serve no fucking purpose. Defund and disband every department if what you say is true. This epic failure is due to the leadership and liberalism destroying American values and institutions. Shit hiring due to checking the correct boxes and nothing to do with the person's abilities. They hired from the top down based on a person's skin color, sex, orientation, and political party. They ended up with a collective group of people that had no business being in law enforcement being led by someone with no business being in charge. Period. I don't even have kids and I know I would have stormed the fucking door. If you truly believe what you posted, you should turn in your badge and encourage every person on your force to do the same, you are unfit for duty. View Quote I'm not going to speak to the intent of Wes' post. I work for the largest agency in the state. Almost 30 years. Most of the guys I work with would have ignored any stand down bullshit we heard. We are old school and react and make decisions. What I can tell you, even in my own agency, this type of officer is being weeded out/discouraged/not hired. They want supervisors to make every decision. If there isn't one they will wait around until one arrives. I have seen it for several years and it only gets worse. You can have an active shooter class and tell officers they have to act, but if every other single police action they take they have the de-escalation shit being crammed down their throats this is what happens. Personally I would have been through the door shooting but I am a dinosaur. We are being pushed out of the profession by constant bullshit and I fear what will be left. Society will not function without us, but the shit they are feeding us is setting terrible precedent. I just heard my agency is looking for officers to be on a committee to discuss fingernail polish standards. I shit you not. |
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Quoted: Those kids were dead in that first 2.5 minutes he started shooting into the classrooms. Major failure because it took an hour to stop the threat. Its your duty as a civilian in your community to know who your neighbors are. When everyone communicates you have the ability to react and protect. View Quote Not all of them. Many were bleeding out and might have survived. They damn sure should have tried to save them as soon as they were on scene. They didn't. They sat there wearing body armor, worried about their own safety. |
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Quoted: I'm not going to speak to the intent of Wes' post. I work for the largest agency in the state. Almost 30 years. Most of the guys I work with would have ignored any stand down bullshit we heard. We are old school and react and make decisions. What I can tell you, even in my own agency, this type of officer is being weeded out/discouraged/not hired. They want supervisors to make every decision. If there isn't one they will wait around until one arrives. I have seen it for several years and it only gets worse. You can have an active shooter class and tell officers they have to act, but if every other single police action they take they have the de-escalation shit being crammed down their throats this is what happens. Personally I would have been through the door shooting but I am a dinosaur. We are being pushed out of the profession by constant bullshit and I fear what will be left. Society will not function without us, but the shit they are feeding us is setting terrible precedent. I just heard my agency is looking for officers to be on a committee to discuss fingernail polish standards. I shit you not. View Quote |
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Quoted: So will the press release a list of names of all the officers with armor and rifles who stood there and did nothing? Or are all cops in the area going to be painted with the coward brush? View Quote Every cop in that area knows at least some of who the cowards are. If they don't want to be wrongfully painted with the coward brush, then start pointing out/naming those who are, instead of lying, obfuscating evidence and covering up for them. |
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Quoted: WHO THE FUCK IS THIS MOTHER FUCKER EMT HOLDING THE COPS BACK?? HE DID THAT HOW MANY TIMES??? WHO THE FUCK IS THIS GUY??? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Trucker hat BORTAC guy arrives at 12:47:02 on the counter. Luckily he slips in behind stethoscope hall-monitor guy when his back was turned, and is able to work his way up to the front. He spends about 2 min talking to other Boarder Patrol guys and getting situated with what's going on. At 12:49:20 he decides it's Fo-Time and makes his move to the door. They make entry at 12:50:01 Noticed that slip move https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/563217/Screenshot_20220712-195853_YouTube_jpg-2450670.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/563217/Screenshot_20220712-202346_YouTube_jpg-2450678.JPG WHO THE FUCK IS THIS MOTHER FUCKER EMT HOLDING THE COPS BACK?? HE DID THAT HOW MANY TIMES??? WHO THE FUCK IS THIS GUY??? Theres already a ton of cops where the shooter is. No need to send the rest of the city, county, state, and every fed agency into one school room where theres guaranteed gun shot wounds. They'll only linger around. Continue to assess and lolligag and prevent further aid as fucked up as it already was. |
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Quoted: Every cop in that area knows at least some of who the cowards are. If they don't want to be wrongfully painted with the coward brush, then start pointing out/naming those who are, instead of lying, obfuscating evidence and covering up for them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: So will the press release a list of names of all the officers with armor and rifles who stood there and did nothing? Or are all cops in the area going to be painted with the coward brush? Every cop in that area knows at least some of who the cowards are. If they don't want to be wrongfully painted with the coward brush, then start pointing out/naming those who are, instead of lying, obfuscating evidence and covering up for them. I still believe a list should be released to the public of every cop who was on scene, where they were posted up and how many minutes they were there before the asshole was shot. |
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Fucking cowards. Stand down orders mean shit when little kids are being killed.
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Quoted: For all the saber rattling going on by the "professionals" here that would've done it better-- I'm not convinced this scenario would've happened ANY differently no matter where it occurred. View Quote You’re not convinced? You just watched video proving that “this scenario” would have been dramatically different if the BORTAC guy would have been closer to the school. 3 minutes. |
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I'm no "operator " just an outta shape old man with a gun, and I wasn't there , but I don't think I could've stood there and done nothing, watching that fucked up response enforces my belief of not waiting on anyone to protect you or yours that was a shit show, hell those guys with the shields for sure should've moved on that evil bastard, what the fuck were they waiting for ? Makes me sick
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Quoted: You’re not convinced? You just watched video proving that “this scenario” would have been dramatically different if the BORTAC guy would have been closer to the school. 3 minutes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: For all the saber rattling going on by the "professionals" here that would've done it better-- I'm not convinced this scenario would've happened ANY differently no matter where it occurred. You’re not convinced? You just watched video proving that “this scenario” would have been dramatically different if the BORTAC guy would have been closer to the school. 3 minutes. And most of that 3 minutes was spent ducking past the hall monitor and figuring out wtf 50 cops were doing hanging out in the hallway. |
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Quoted: Those kids were dead in that first 2.5 minutes he started shooting into the classrooms. Major failure because it took an hour to stop the threat. Its your duty as a civilian in your community to know who your neighbors are. When everyone communicates you have the ability to react and protect. View Quote You might want to check that time line of when calls were coming in from the classrooms. You would find out you're wrong. |
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Quoted: Oh, there was a failure of leadership, alright. But it began long before that day in May. It began the moment the Mayor and the City Council hired Arredondo and continued unbroken until that BORTAC guy walked into the classroom. It began again as soon he walked out and continues until today as those ass covering poltroons continue their utterly transparent efforts to cover their utterly worthless asses. View Quote You taught an old dog a new word Jane. Poltroon. I'll be using it from here on out. |
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Quoted: Unfortunately the only training most police in the country have is that provided and mandated by their police department. ...and unfortunately most of that is pretty terrible, and conducted infrequently. Competence with issued weapons is rare in the policing world. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Cop on right is literally bracing his AR against the corner of the way and holding the end of the barrel by the flash hider. He's got fingers infront of the muzzle. 18mins in on full video https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97093/muzzle_jpg-2450441.JPG Unfortunately the only training most police in the country have is that provided and mandated by their police department. ...and unfortunately most of that is pretty terrible, and conducted infrequently. Competence with issued weapons is rare in the policing world. No one paid for my home lab with $3k-$5k of new and used equipment to study and learn IT stuff. No one replaces it every few years at that cost. No one paid for the tools in my bag. No one paid for the classes I took, or the education that I got. Not arguing with you, just making a point. Take your job/career seriously. If you're a cop, buy some ammo and go to the range. Take a class that YOU pay for. Buy the extra gear that YOU need to do your job. Vests, helmets, rifles, even night vision and/or thermal. Take time to practice with it. If you're at a department that won't let you carry purchased gear, but won't issue you what you need, then switch departments or work to have the policies changed. You're investing in yourself. In that line of work, it may save your life, or the lives of 10 year olds. Also, I don't want to hear about how little cops make. When I started in IT, I made $8/hour answering phones. This was while I was in college. I bet there's many cops who make a comparable salary to mine right now. |
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Quoted: odds are high that you're spending your own time and money learning things useful to you on the job. Simple as that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: odds are high that you're spending your own time and money learning things useful to you on the job. Simple as that. I doubt that is close to being the case and you're trying to use the exception and apply it as the rule. I know in the 12 years I was married to a nurse, she paid for 1 class she attended. Everything else she attended was provided by her employer or she was recouped the expense of attending the class. And that is pretty much the standard for the nursing field from what Ive seen around here. Most cops talk about being provided training by the agency because 1) they are often too cheap to pay for it themselves 2) they often dont know how to find the training 3) their agencies have the legal duty to provide training for the tasks the officers are tasked with performing (Canton v Harris being the first case most people bring up). So to have police officers expect their agency to provide them training or pay for them to attend training is reasonable. And this is coming from someone who has been training outside my agency and footing the bill for 20 years. This discussion is happening in the context of an abject failure of the most basic duty police officers have. If we were talking about any other profession that got this many people killed from sheer cowardice, the reviews wouldn't be any prettier. There's lots of problems in society and low standards are out there aplenty...but this is a massive cultural problem in the institution of policing. And where are police officers recruited from? General society......so if there is an issue with conflict avoidance in society as whole, you are going to see it in policing too. But issues of character, failing to step up dont have anything to do with someone choosing to attend/not attend a class. |
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I didn't wade through 10 pages to see if this is a dupe. Full 1:22 video unedited without commentary
Graphic Content Warning: Hallway footage obtained in Uvalde school shooting | KVUE |
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So for those who don't want to watch, here's the summary:
11:33.02 gunman enters school 11:33.27 gunman enters classroom 11:35.57 at least 6 cops, at least 2 of which have rifles, enter the school and make their way in 11:36.09 at least 8 cops are in the hallway, maybe 4 are now "stacked" outside the classroom, including at least two rifles 11:36.17 at least 9 cops are in the hallway, at least 6 "stacked" outside the classroom 11:36.58 shots are fired and all the "stacked" cops scramble away 11:37+ nothing happens (except victims dying) for a very long time... So thoughts are: Mistake 1: if there are already 6 people coming in at 11:35.57, I'm sure there were at least 1-2 that could have entered the school even earlier during the initial 100 round shooting spree... why did they wait outside and not enter the school? Mistake 2: You've got a 4 man stack for two classrooms at 11:36.09. At least two of them have rifles. Why aren't you going in???? Mistake 3: Only 8 seconds later you've now got 6 people stacked at the doors; WHY ARE YOU STILL SITTING WAITING OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOMS? There's nothing beyond this really worth commenting. The rest of the time is just kids bleeding out for the next hour+ |
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Quoted: Serious question - are they afraid of consequences if they defy orders? If someone is telling them not to go in could they be opening themselves up to prosecution if they go in anyway, especially if they accidentally shoot the wrong kid. Just wondering if the liability mindset is part of the problem here. Could legislation exempting them from prosecution in these cases avoid this? View Quote It's north Mexico and they're weak minded and just not that smart. I'm half mexican and it pains me to say it. |
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Quoted: You might want to check that time line of when calls were coming in from the classrooms. You would find out you're wrong. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Those kids were dead in that first 2.5 minutes he started shooting into the classrooms. Major failure because it took an hour to stop the threat. Its your duty as a civilian in your community to know who your neighbors are. When everyone communicates you have the ability to react and protect. You might want to check that time line of when calls were coming in from the classrooms. You would find out you're wrong. The initial shooting most likely killed at least 15 kids. The teacher who texted her husband in the hallway probably would have survived had she gotten medical attention. There were at least 2 additional sets of shots while the cops were hanging outside the hallway that killed at a minimum of 2 kids. If the cops had of gone in as soon as they got there there is at a minimum 3 people who should still be alive..not including the others who were a the time wounded and bleeding out. |
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Quoted: Jesus Christ. After ALL of the evidence of flat out cowardice and dereliction of duty from these sorry assed excuses for cops you still want to make excuses for them. You've previously said that we didn't know what happened, we've never chased suspects, we've never blah blah blah. Well fuck straight off with your thin blue line bullshit. There were about 50 flat out incompetent cowards and a few MEN in that hallway. Too bad that the MEN didn't get there sooner. It turns out that damn near all of the information that the cops put out was a lie and you're STILL shilling for them. You're either deluded or a troll. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: What would you do? Seriously. You're now in charge of Texas DPS, or whatever Texan agency you want, circle January 2022. What do you do differently? What do you differently that would actually work? What is it in the hiring process you change? The training courses that are offered? The electoral voting of leadership of local agencies? I've been saying all along that "cowardice" isn't the explanation. It's the answer that everyone wants to hear, because it's easy and satisfies the righteous anger, and dovetails oh so nicely with the ragebait articles, and doesn't need any further analysis or worry. There was a clump of cowards in Texas that day, and let's go imprison/execute them all, and that makes the world a safe place again. Or maybe it's just that all cops are cowards, our tax dollars are wasted, and maybe those anarchists have a point and we should just give it a whirl, no? Texas DPS Director McGraw would like you to believe it was all the fault of a single man (who isn't the shooter, I might add). Is he right? The answers aren't simple. They aren't a matter of adding a new PowerPoint to the training doctrine. They can't be solved via legislation, or incarceration. Uvalde is just the latest in a long line of human violent conflict that shows that leadership in battle is a rare, precious resource that's impossible to mandate and incapable of artificial creation in a lab. Either it's there at the onset of the gunfight, or it's not. Honestly the video released yesterday doesn't really show anything new or groundbreaking. The shooter had time to fire over 100 rounds in the classroom before any officers entered the building. We see nothing of the officers outside in this video, though their coordinated entry suggests they staged way too long outside...we don't get to see how, and where. It's been said over and over again, but the majority of cops are not gunfighters. Their agencies give them a box or two of ammo a year, they aren't shooters, and they don't even know what they don't know. The endless critique of random SROs and patrol cops for not being DEVGRU utterly ignores that the average cop might get 24 hours of training..on a good year...across medical, legal, driving, firearms, ground fighting, computer systems, and equipment usage. To say nothing of the mandatory diversity, equity, and bullshit training. You can't get blood out of a stone. All of this means that when shit hits the fan, it takes some seriously commanding leadership to roll in, make a fast plan, and execute it with guys who aren't trained or equipped for a SWAT-level action. Particularly if they're spread across half a dozen different agencies. After Parkland, I said at my old agency that we would have done no better on average if it had happened in my AO instead of Parkland. After Parkland, the average patrol guy's view in my area was still "wait for backup, don't go in solo". I went off and wargamed with my SROs how best to ram school gates with my cruiser to come into the fight; most guys didn't even think about what they'd do. I'll just say this, the capstone of all the things no one here wants to hear: if you grabbed 100 random arfcommers, 90 of them would be the guys hanging at the bottom of the screen by the camera, weapon at the ready but unsure what to do or where to go. 8 or 9 guys would be the meds dude, directing people to the fight or making plans for the wounded. 1 or 2 of those 100 would actually be bumrushing that door and working triggers. That was true in Heraclitus's day back in good ol' 500 BC, and is still true today. Period. Jesus Christ. After ALL of the evidence of flat out cowardice and dereliction of duty from these sorry assed excuses for cops you still want to make excuses for them. You've previously said that we didn't know what happened, we've never chased suspects, we've never blah blah blah. Well fuck straight off with your thin blue line bullshit. There were about 50 flat out incompetent cowards and a few MEN in that hallway. Too bad that the MEN didn't get there sooner. It turns out that damn near all of the information that the cops put out was a lie and you're STILL shilling for them. You're either deluded or a troll. Time and time again the blue line reminds me of democrats who support muttering stumbling forgetful joe biden no matter what simply because "he's on our side" "he's on our team". Its the EXACT same mentality |
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Quoted: The initial shooting most likely killed at least 15 kids. The teacher who texted her husband in the hallway probably would have survived had she gotten medical attention. There were at least 2 additional sets of shots while the cops were hanging outside the hallway that killed at a minimum of 2 kids. If the cops had of gone in as soon as they got there there is at a minimum 3 people who should still be alive..not including the others who were a the time wounded and bleeding out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Those kids were dead in that first 2.5 minutes he started shooting into the classrooms. Major failure because it took an hour to stop the threat. Its your duty as a civilian in your community to know who your neighbors are. When everyone communicates you have the ability to react and protect. You might want to check that time line of when calls were coming in from the classrooms. You would find out you're wrong. The initial shooting most likely killed at least 15 kids. The teacher who texted her husband in the hallway probably would have survived had she gotten medical attention. There were at least 2 additional sets of shots while the cops were hanging outside the hallway that killed at a minimum of 2 kids. If the cops had of gone in as soon as they got there there is at a minimum 3 people who should still be alive..not including the others who were a the time wounded and bleeding out. Supposition We'll never know because the people that are supposed to do things didn't do the thing they are paid to do. |
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Quoted: You have people in countless professions that think that learning opportunities to be better in their profession should be come with compensation by their employers and/or be provided by their employer. Most people are content to remain mediocre and not look for ways to improve themselves.....that is simply society as a whole. To single out police as some anomaly when it comes to wanting to be paid or have the learning opportunity provided by their employer is BS. Yes; cops should be seeking out training on their own, but that applies to literally everyone that wants to perform better at a given task. View Quote A professional in the private sector will be left behind if they don't keep their skills relevant. |
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Quoted: I'm not going to speak to the intent of Wes' post. I work for the largest agency in the state. Almost 30 years. Most of the guys I work with would have ignored any stand down bullshit we heard. We are old school and react and make decisions. What I can tell you, even in my own agency, this type of officer is being weeded out/discouraged/not hired. They want supervisors to make every decision. If there isn't one they will wait around until one arrives. I have seen it for several years and it only gets worse. You can have an active shooter class and tell officers they have to act, but if every other single police action they take they have the de-escalation shit being crammed down their throats this is what happens. Personally I would have been through the door shooting but I am a dinosaur. We are being pushed out of the profession by constant bullshit and I fear what will be left. Society will not function without us, but the shit they are feeding us is setting terrible precedent. I just heard my agency is looking for officers to be on a committee to discuss fingernail polish standards. I shit you not. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: What you said is the biggest crock of shit ever posted. If you are correct, there is zero point in having police. You serve no fucking purpose. Defund and disband every department if what you say is true. This epic failure is due to the leadership and liberalism destroying American values and institutions. Shit hiring due to checking the correct boxes and nothing to do with the person's abilities. They hired from the top down based on a person's skin color, sex, orientation, and political party. They ended up with a collective group of people that had no business being in law enforcement being led by someone with no business being in charge. Period. I don't even have kids and I know I would have stormed the fucking door. If you truly believe what you posted, you should turn in your badge and encourage every person on your force to do the same, you are unfit for duty. I'm not going to speak to the intent of Wes' post. I work for the largest agency in the state. Almost 30 years. Most of the guys I work with would have ignored any stand down bullshit we heard. We are old school and react and make decisions. What I can tell you, even in my own agency, this type of officer is being weeded out/discouraged/not hired. They want supervisors to make every decision. If there isn't one they will wait around until one arrives. I have seen it for several years and it only gets worse. You can have an active shooter class and tell officers they have to act, but if every other single police action they take they have the de-escalation shit being crammed down their throats this is what happens. Personally I would have been through the door shooting but I am a dinosaur. We are being pushed out of the profession by constant bullshit and I fear what will be left. Society will not function without us, but the shit they are feeding us is setting terrible precedent. I just heard my agency is looking for officers to be on a committee to discuss fingernail polish standards. I shit you not. |
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Quoted: What would you do? Seriously. You're now in charge of Texas DPS, or whatever Texan agency you want, circle January 2022. What do you do differently? What do you differently that would actually work? What is it in the hiring process you change? The training courses that are offered? The electoral voting of leadership of local agencies? I've been saying all along that "cowardice" isn't the explanation. It's the answer that everyone wants to hear, because it's easy and satisfies the righteous anger, and dovetails oh so nicely with the ragebait articles, and doesn't need any further analysis or worry. There was a clump of cowards in Texas that day, and let's go imprison/execute them all, and that makes the world a safe place again. Or maybe it's just that all cops are cowards, our tax dollars are wasted, and maybe those anarchists have a point and we should just give it a whirl, no? Texas DPS Director McGraw would like you to believe it was all the fault of a single man (who isn't the shooter, I might add). Is he right? The answers aren't simple. They aren't a matter of adding a new PowerPoint to the training doctrine. They can't be solved via legislation, or incarceration. Uvalde is just the latest in a long line of human violent conflict that shows that leadership in battle is a rare, precious resource that's impossible to mandate and incapable of artificial creation in a lab. Either it's there at the onset of the gunfight, or it's not. Honestly the video released yesterday doesn't really show anything new or groundbreaking. The shooter had time to fire over 100 rounds in the classroom before any officers entered the building. We see nothing of the officers outside in this video, though their coordinated entry suggests they staged way too long outside...we don't get to see how, and where. It's been said over and over again, but the majority of cops are not gunfighters. Their agencies give them a box or two of ammo a year, they aren't shooters, and they don't even know what they don't know. The endless critique of random SROs and patrol cops for not being DEVGRU utterly ignores that the average cop might get 24 hours of training..on a good year...across medical, legal, driving, firearms, ground fighting, computer systems, and equipment usage. To say nothing of the mandatory diversity, equity, and bullshit training. You can't get blood out of a stone. All of this means that when shit hits the fan, it takes some seriously commanding leadership to roll in, make a fast plan, and execute it with guys who aren't trained or equipped for a SWAT-level action. Particularly if they're spread across half a dozen different agencies. After Parkland, I said at my old agency that we would have done no better on average if it had happened in my AO instead of Parkland. After Parkland, the average patrol guy's view in my area was still "wait for backup, don't go in solo". I went off and wargamed with my SROs how best to ram school gates with my cruiser to come into the fight; most guys didn't even think about what they'd do. I'll just say this, the capstone of all the things no one here wants to hear: if you grabbed 100 random arfcommers, 90 of them would be the guys hanging at the bottom of the screen by the camera, weapon at the ready but unsure what to do or where to go. 8 or 9 guys would be the meds dude, directing people to the fight or making plans for the wounded. 1 or 2 of those 100 would actually be bumrushing that door and working triggers. That was true in Heraclitus's day back in good ol' 500 BC, and is still true today. Period. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have our resident tbl supporters hopped in this thread yet to tell us it's too early to jump to conclusions? Or to condemn us as cop haters? You don't have the experience to understand how these operations work. Those school doors are stronk! You just can't breach them. You couldn't have done any better. Have you ever pursued a suspect and lost him around the corner while you had a copter overhead? I didn't think so. We have to wait for the facts here; it's clear that you can't understand what happened. On... and... on. We'll be waiting for the mea culpa until we turn blue in the face. It would be nice to see them admit the failures of these officers; and help solve the problem so it doesn't happen again. But... they won't. What would you do? Seriously. You're now in charge of Texas DPS, or whatever Texan agency you want, circle January 2022. What do you do differently? What do you differently that would actually work? What is it in the hiring process you change? The training courses that are offered? The electoral voting of leadership of local agencies? I've been saying all along that "cowardice" isn't the explanation. It's the answer that everyone wants to hear, because it's easy and satisfies the righteous anger, and dovetails oh so nicely with the ragebait articles, and doesn't need any further analysis or worry. There was a clump of cowards in Texas that day, and let's go imprison/execute them all, and that makes the world a safe place again. Or maybe it's just that all cops are cowards, our tax dollars are wasted, and maybe those anarchists have a point and we should just give it a whirl, no? Texas DPS Director McGraw would like you to believe it was all the fault of a single man (who isn't the shooter, I might add). Is he right? The answers aren't simple. They aren't a matter of adding a new PowerPoint to the training doctrine. They can't be solved via legislation, or incarceration. Uvalde is just the latest in a long line of human violent conflict that shows that leadership in battle is a rare, precious resource that's impossible to mandate and incapable of artificial creation in a lab. Either it's there at the onset of the gunfight, or it's not. Honestly the video released yesterday doesn't really show anything new or groundbreaking. The shooter had time to fire over 100 rounds in the classroom before any officers entered the building. We see nothing of the officers outside in this video, though their coordinated entry suggests they staged way too long outside...we don't get to see how, and where. It's been said over and over again, but the majority of cops are not gunfighters. Their agencies give them a box or two of ammo a year, they aren't shooters, and they don't even know what they don't know. The endless critique of random SROs and patrol cops for not being DEVGRU utterly ignores that the average cop might get 24 hours of training..on a good year...across medical, legal, driving, firearms, ground fighting, computer systems, and equipment usage. To say nothing of the mandatory diversity, equity, and bullshit training. You can't get blood out of a stone. All of this means that when shit hits the fan, it takes some seriously commanding leadership to roll in, make a fast plan, and execute it with guys who aren't trained or equipped for a SWAT-level action. Particularly if they're spread across half a dozen different agencies. After Parkland, I said at my old agency that we would have done no better on average if it had happened in my AO instead of Parkland. After Parkland, the average patrol guy's view in my area was still "wait for backup, don't go in solo". I went off and wargamed with my SROs how best to ram school gates with my cruiser to come into the fight; most guys didn't even think about what they'd do. I'll just say this, the capstone of all the things no one here wants to hear: if you grabbed 100 random arfcommers, 90 of them would be the guys hanging at the bottom of the screen by the camera, weapon at the ready but unsure what to do or where to go. 8 or 9 guys would be the meds dude, directing people to the fight or making plans for the wounded. 1 or 2 of those 100 would actually be bumrushing that door and working triggers. That was true in Heraclitus's day back in good ol' 500 BC, and is still true today. Period. You're still defending a bunch of cops standing in a hallway for over 30min. Wow. |
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Quoted: You're still defending a bunch of cops standing in a hallway for over 30min. Wow. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have our resident tbl supporters hopped in this thread yet to tell us it's too early to jump to conclusions? Or to condemn us as cop haters? You don't have the experience to understand how these operations work. Those school doors are stronk! You just can't breach them. You couldn't have done any better. Have you ever pursued a suspect and lost him around the corner while you had a copter overhead? I didn't think so. We have to wait for the facts here; it's clear that you can't understand what happened. On... and... on. We'll be waiting for the mea culpa until we turn blue in the face. It would be nice to see them admit the failures of these officers; and help solve the problem so it doesn't happen again. But... they won't. What would you do? Seriously. You're now in charge of Texas DPS, or whatever Texan agency you want, circle January 2022. What do you do differently? What do you differently that would actually work? What is it in the hiring process you change? The training courses that are offered? The electoral voting of leadership of local agencies? I've been saying all along that "cowardice" isn't the explanation. It's the answer that everyone wants to hear, because it's easy and satisfies the righteous anger, and dovetails oh so nicely with the ragebait articles, and doesn't need any further analysis or worry. There was a clump of cowards in Texas that day, and let's go imprison/execute them all, and that makes the world a safe place again. Or maybe it's just that all cops are cowards, our tax dollars are wasted, and maybe those anarchists have a point and we should just give it a whirl, no? Texas DPS Director McGraw would like you to believe it was all the fault of a single man (who isn't the shooter, I might add). Is he right? The answers aren't simple. They aren't a matter of adding a new PowerPoint to the training doctrine. They can't be solved via legislation, or incarceration. Uvalde is just the latest in a long line of human violent conflict that shows that leadership in battle is a rare, precious resource that's impossible to mandate and incapable of artificial creation in a lab. Either it's there at the onset of the gunfight, or it's not. Honestly the video released yesterday doesn't really show anything new or groundbreaking. The shooter had time to fire over 100 rounds in the classroom before any officers entered the building. We see nothing of the officers outside in this video, though their coordinated entry suggests they staged way too long outside...we don't get to see how, and where. It's been said over and over again, but the majority of cops are not gunfighters. Their agencies give them a box or two of ammo a year, they aren't shooters, and they don't even know what they don't know. The endless critique of random SROs and patrol cops for not being DEVGRU utterly ignores that the average cop might get 24 hours of training..on a good year...across medical, legal, driving, firearms, ground fighting, computer systems, and equipment usage. To say nothing of the mandatory diversity, equity, and bullshit training. You can't get blood out of a stone. All of this means that when shit hits the fan, it takes some seriously commanding leadership to roll in, make a fast plan, and execute it with guys who aren't trained or equipped for a SWAT-level action. Particularly if they're spread across half a dozen different agencies. After Parkland, I said at my old agency that we would have done no better on average if it had happened in my AO instead of Parkland. After Parkland, the average patrol guy's view in my area was still "wait for backup, don't go in solo". I went off and wargamed with my SROs how best to ram school gates with my cruiser to come into the fight; most guys didn't even think about what they'd do. I'll just say this, the capstone of all the things no one here wants to hear: if you grabbed 100 random arfcommers, 90 of them would be the guys hanging at the bottom of the screen by the camera, weapon at the ready but unsure what to do or where to go. 8 or 9 guys would be the meds dude, directing people to the fight or making plans for the wounded. 1 or 2 of those 100 would actually be bumrushing that door and working triggers. That was true in Heraclitus's day back in good ol' 500 BC, and is still true today. Period. You're still defending a bunch of cops standing in a hallway for over 30min. Wow. Probably has a big punisher skull on the back of his truck. |
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Quoted: And not one single person stepped up. In a group of macho cops, TEXAN macho cops, not one summoned up the courage to take action. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQp7pNQZzocnGB_hIsmUDhJOm4PiOaqtAIYg&usqp=CAU Exactly why we were engaging about 'leadership' or lack of it in this case. Didn't look like anyone there had the balls or gumption to do what they're trained for. And not one single person stepped up. In a group of macho cops, TEXAN macho cops, not one summoned up the courage to take action. All that remains of "macho" culture is narcissistic peacocking. |
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Quoted: Probably has a big punisher skull on the back of his truck. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have our resident tbl supporters hopped in this thread yet to tell us it's too early to jump to conclusions? Or to condemn us as cop haters? You don't have the experience to understand how these operations work. Those school doors are stronk! You just can't breach them. You couldn't have done any better. Have you ever pursued a suspect and lost him around the corner while you had a copter overhead? I didn't think so. We have to wait for the facts here; it's clear that you can't understand what happened. On... and... on. We'll be waiting for the mea culpa until we turn blue in the face. It would be nice to see them admit the failures of these officers; and help solve the problem so it doesn't happen again. But... they won't. What would you do? Seriously. You're now in charge of Texas DPS, or whatever Texan agency you want, circle January 2022. What do you do differently? What do you differently that would actually work? What is it in the hiring process you change? The training courses that are offered? The electoral voting of leadership of local agencies? I've been saying all along that "cowardice" isn't the explanation. It's the answer that everyone wants to hear, because it's easy and satisfies the righteous anger, and dovetails oh so nicely with the ragebait articles, and doesn't need any further analysis or worry. There was a clump of cowards in Texas that day, and let's go imprison/execute them all, and that makes the world a safe place again. Or maybe it's just that all cops are cowards, our tax dollars are wasted, and maybe those anarchists have a point and we should just give it a whirl, no? Texas DPS Director McGraw would like you to believe it was all the fault of a single man (who isn't the shooter, I might add). Is he right? The answers aren't simple. They aren't a matter of adding a new PowerPoint to the training doctrine. They can't be solved via legislation, or incarceration. Uvalde is just the latest in a long line of human violent conflict that shows that leadership in battle is a rare, precious resource that's impossible to mandate and incapable of artificial creation in a lab. Either it's there at the onset of the gunfight, or it's not. Honestly the video released yesterday doesn't really show anything new or groundbreaking. The shooter had time to fire over 100 rounds in the classroom before any officers entered the building. We see nothing of the officers outside in this video, though their coordinated entry suggests they staged way too long outside...we don't get to see how, and where. It's been said over and over again, but the majority of cops are not gunfighters. Their agencies give them a box or two of ammo a year, they aren't shooters, and they don't even know what they don't know. The endless critique of random SROs and patrol cops for not being DEVGRU utterly ignores that the average cop might get 24 hours of training..on a good year...across medical, legal, driving, firearms, ground fighting, computer systems, and equipment usage. To say nothing of the mandatory diversity, equity, and bullshit training. You can't get blood out of a stone. All of this means that when shit hits the fan, it takes some seriously commanding leadership to roll in, make a fast plan, and execute it with guys who aren't trained or equipped for a SWAT-level action. Particularly if they're spread across half a dozen different agencies. After Parkland, I said at my old agency that we would have done no better on average if it had happened in my AO instead of Parkland. After Parkland, the average patrol guy's view in my area was still "wait for backup, don't go in solo". I went off and wargamed with my SROs how best to ram school gates with my cruiser to come into the fight; most guys didn't even think about what they'd do. I'll just say this, the capstone of all the things no one here wants to hear: if you grabbed 100 random arfcommers, 90 of them would be the guys hanging at the bottom of the screen by the camera, weapon at the ready but unsure what to do or where to go. 8 or 9 guys would be the meds dude, directing people to the fight or making plans for the wounded. 1 or 2 of those 100 would actually be bumrushing that door and working triggers. That was true in Heraclitus's day back in good ol' 500 BC, and is still true today. Period. You're still defending a bunch of cops standing in a hallway for over 30min. Wow. Probably has a big punisher skull on the back of his truck. Maybe on his phone. |
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Motherfucker... it's even worse than I thought it was going to be. Just pure cowardice.
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I hope every last one of those coward fuckers can't live with the guilt and take themselves out the fucking game
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Quoted: Theres already a ton of cops where the shooter is. No need to send the rest of the city, county, state, and every fed agency into one school room where theres guaranteed gun shot wounds. They'll only linger around. Continue to assess and lolligag and prevent further aid as fucked up as it already was. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Trucker hat BORTAC guy arrives at 12:47:02 on the counter. Luckily he slips in behind stethoscope hall-monitor guy when his back was turned, and is able to work his way up to the front. He spends about 2 min talking to other Boarder Patrol guys and getting situated with what's going on. At 12:49:20 he decides it's Fo-Time and makes his move to the door. They make entry at 12:50:01 Noticed that slip move https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/563217/Screenshot_20220712-195853_YouTube_jpg-2450670.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/563217/Screenshot_20220712-202346_YouTube_jpg-2450678.JPG WHO THE FUCK IS THIS MOTHER FUCKER EMT HOLDING THE COPS BACK?? HE DID THAT HOW MANY TIMES??? WHO THE FUCK IS THIS GUY??? Theres already a ton of cops where the shooter is. No need to send the rest of the city, county, state, and every fed agency into one school room where theres guaranteed gun shot wounds. They'll only linger around. Continue to assess and lolligag and prevent further aid as fucked up as it already was. Yea holding back guys who wanted move up. Including the BORTAC who finished it got caught in his bullshit who said who the fuck is this guy, were going in. Maybe with a few more officers they could of managed to have maybe combined to make all of 2 balls |
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The only police I know of who pay for their own off duty training are cops who are into guns already. Almost no cop who isn't into guns goes to a gun class on their own dime, I think I met two who did.
I've never heard of a police officer paying for anything but a gun class I guess I should backpedal, there are police officers who attend college for degrees like masters in "public administration" but the only technical training I have heard of is cops who are into shooting or karate going to classes similar to their non work interest in firearms or martial arts. I've never heard of a cop who was a bad driver paying to go to a driving school |
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Quoted: The only police I know of who pay for their own off duty training are cops who are into guns already. Almost no cop who isn't into guns goes to a gun class on their own dime, I think I met two who did. I've never heard of a police officer paying for anything but a gun class I guess I should backpedal, there are police officers who attend college for degrees like masters in "public administration" but the only technical training I have heard of is cops who are into shooting or karate going to classes similar to their non work interest in firearms or martial arts. I've never heard of a cop who was a bad driver paying to go to a driving school View Quote How much aftermarket training does a cop need to understand the concept of "Go shoot fuckers that are shooting little kids"? |
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Quoted: How much aftermarket training does a cop need to understand the concept of "Go shoot fuckers that are shooting little kids"? View Quote There isnt a need for non-agency training to know the standard for responding to an active shooter is for the officers on scene to engage the suspect. The lack of action on part of the on scene officers is what has left most of us in the LE community dumbfounded as more of the actual facts about the incident have come out |
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Instead of running away, maybe a mag dump through the classroom door would've stopped that asshole.
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View Quote That guy looks a lot like Eva Mireles's husband. I suppose ignorance is a defense against libel. For a publication to make money off of him being a victim, then make money off of him being an anti-hero, taking his photos under the premise of "fair use", I don't see how the guy could ever be made whole. Provided it's even actionable because of the ignorance defense. And, if I'm looking at these photographs correctly. |
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You would think that after the population sees this video it would reinforce in the minds of the people of their need to CCW and
the importance of the 2 Amendment. You would think that people would wake up to the fact that you have to be ready to defend yourself and family and not completely depend on the police to come to your rescue when time is of the essence. It is so heartbreaking and angering to watch the video knowing that little children are being slaughtered while police standby and do nothing. |
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