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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:34:08 AM EST
[#1]
Captured PPSH have been used in Iraq by US Soldiers during room clearing.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:35:44 AM EST
[#2]
Quoted: My vote is for the M1 carbine. Sure the STG34 and the AK 47 are no-brainers, but what would be the oldest? Did something come before the M1 carbine that could hold a town on a modern battlefield? I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon. What would work from the 1930s or even earlier? Prototypes and concept weapons don’t count. It Has to be a weapon that was actually widely issued. 
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:36:50 AM EST
[#3]
Quoted: My vote is for the M1 carbine. Sure the STG34 and the AK 47 are no-brainers, but what would be the oldest? Did something come before the M1 carbine that could hold a town on a modern battlefield? I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon. What would work from the 1930s or even earlier? Prototypes and concept weapons don’t count. It Has to be a weapon that was actually widely issued. Seems like almost nobody actually bothered to read the OP. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:38:19 AM EST
[#4]
Garand if we’re talking rifles. The answer would need to be semi-auto. Would be at a disadvantage against newer rifles, but you could make it work if your guys knew the weapon well.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:39:12 AM EST
[#5]
Many choices that are debatable.
Sort of an odd question. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:46:47 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Garand if we’re talking rifles. The answer would need to be semi-auto. Would be at a disadvantage against newer rifles, but you could make it work if your guys knew the weapon well. I would go with this! |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:50:28 AM EST
[#7]
Maxim machinegun. Invented and first used in combat in the 1880s. Obviously you couldn't carry it around like a modern LMG, but I would think it would be relatively effective at defending a static position. The Vickers machinegun, which is basically a modified Maxim, would also be a good choice. Apparently in the 1930s the British Army fired like 5 million rounds through a Vickers, only stopping to occasionally change barrels, and it was still in spec at the end of the torture test.
Edit - if we're talking about arming individual soldiers, probably an M1 Garand. The en bloc system is fast and M2 AP can penetrate some types of modern armor. It's basically an M14 with less options for optics. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 12:52:20 AM EST
[#8]
Browning Auto-5
MP-18 For close quarters Early Mausers, Enfields and Springfields that have optics. Even the old optics of low power could be of good use in the right spot. Even the M1D with x2 scope would be useful in an urban environment. For mid-long range M1 Carbine for general issue combat weapon For a sidearm. Pretty much any Colt, S&W revolver, FN, Mauser or Webley would do. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:00:02 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: a knife.... This. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:03:15 AM EST
[#10]
Mosin would still be good.
If you're talking new productions of old designs, there are plenty of good lever guns out there in legit cartridges. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:03:47 AM EST
[#11]
1892 Lever Action
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:06:40 AM EST
[#12]
Caltrops. Their tactical use deployed in mass by a few hundred soldiers could be very effective.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:07:25 AM EST
[#13]
STG44
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:08:12 AM EST
[#14]
Khukri.
Though tbh, your OP and title aren't 100% compatible. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:09:52 AM EST
[#15]
Halberd
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:14:07 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sold on the Garand. I love them, think they dominated WW2, but going against a bunch of third-worlders with AKs? I don't think the Garand is going to work. It was great against guys using bolt-actions, but the battlefield today is different. Its bullets are too heavy to carry, and it doesn't hold enough ammo. The obvious choice is the M-14, which gives us more than twice the ammo/magazine as well as faster reloads...but I think the round is wrong. I'm not a doorkicker, and I'm more than willing to be corrected...but I'd think our frontline guys would rather have more ammo, vice less, on their person per pound...and I'm not sold on the M-14's reliability and ease of maintenance in the field, and I believe they were horrible when fired FA. M1 carbine? Our guys already have pistols. They need a rifle. I'm...guessing the M-16 is about as far back as I'd go, and still think our frontline guys had a good-enough weapon to win with. Optics and gear ready. The platform is...what...70+ years old? (I disregarded the M2 because it wouldn't be "general issue") Thoughts? Obviously everything you listed in far inferior to the M16, but will they possibly work in a pinch ? I think the M1 carbine would work, though not ideal and inferior. And the Ak is older then the M16, and would be a entirely reasonable pick. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:55:10 AM EST
[#17]
 750 Rounds Through a Vickers Heavy Machine Gun 750 Rounds Through a Vickers Heavy Machine Gun |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 2:13:53 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federov |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 2:32:55 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M2 .50BMG M1911A1 MP38/40 (I'd argue a Thompson as well, but that'd probably lead to a fight) BAR and 1919 (in A6 configuration) K31 would be an alright DMR Also, if someone attached an electrical firing/cycling mechanism and belt feed, I'd bet a Gatling gun would be pretty likable and a versatile platform that would work well in multiple calibers as a vehicle mounted weapon  Came here to say Gatling gun (1862). Placed strategically around a town and in combination with snipers wielding Mosin-Nagants (1891 and still in service) they could certainly hold a town against a pretty credible siege. Add a few cannon while you're at it. Cannon balls may not be explosive but they do a credible job of turning cover info concealment. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 2:38:02 AM EST
[#20]
Some one ought to at least mention the Winchester 1907.
Though historically most of its military use was in aircraft, it would be suitable for ground use also. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 3:03:47 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M2, caliber 50, heavy barrel... This. With origins starting at the end of WWI, it will be a standard inventory item likely for the next couple decades. It's the oldest firearm design still in active use and inventory... The M2 is "general issue", but if you are talking individual issue, my vote would go towards the German FG42 or the StG44 as a primary arm, and as much as I love the 1911, I would go with the Browning 1935/BHP as the sidearm. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 3:33:09 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryAgree, you could still wreck some shit with a gladius. That video is a little . "Standard issue Roman infantry weapon for half a century." More like half a millennia. It is the sword that conquered the world, as they say.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:23:04 AM EST
[#23]
What about pointed sticks?
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:27:15 AM EST
[#24]
Fossilized dinosaur penis.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:31:11 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is ‘general issue’ defined for this exercise? As interesting as the M2 is, I can’t see issuing one to every soldier. Not with that attitude. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:15:03 AM EST
[#26]
M2 carbine. full auto version of the m1 carbine.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:16:15 AM EST
[#27]
I love this. Last night I'm reading a thread telling me I'm a dead man without 5k in bullshit hanging off my rifle, today I'm reading a thread suggesting going to war with grandpa's deer rifle. I'm getting whiplash.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:20:48 AM EST
[#28]
ANM2
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:20:59 AM EST
[#29]
The M1917 is still in limited service today and it’s a fine weapon. I had one converted to 300WM. It’s hardly “tacticool” like modern weapons, but it’s a solid rifle just the same.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:27:30 AM EST
[#30]
If you took away an army's guns and gave them pointy sticks, they'd mutiny and take their guns back. Knives are not viable.
You could replace an M4 with a submachine gun and not really notice for general use. Clearly not as good but it still gets the job done. The German MP18 from 1918 is pretty clunky by today's standards but would work. A bolt gun might be too big a step back. For those saying 1891 Mosin, remember you're not getting a 91/30. That means no stripper clips. The Mauser 1889 had a smokeless, rimless 7.65x53 fed by 5 round strippers. Better known as the 1891 Argentine, it's basically a modern bolt rifle. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:31:35 AM EST
[#31]
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Posted: 7/26/2021 9:33:03 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd go as far back as the 1898 Mauser. And I would go back as far as the 1895 Mauser in 7mm. Excellent rifle. flatter shooting than our military rifles today. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 9:42:32 AM EST
[#33]
Quoted: My vote is for the M1 carbine. Sure the STG34 and the AK 47 are no-brainers, but what would be the oldest? Did something come before the M1 carbine that could hold a town on a modern battlefield? I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon. What would work from the 1930s or even earlier? Prototypes and concept weapons don’t count. It Has to be a weapon that was actually widely issued. I would have no issues with using a M1 carbine in 2021 using modern ammo. You can even update it to mount red dots if you want too Case in point  One of mine last summer, using a old Vortex Sparc Mk I. The only reason I stopped using this rig was the Sparc died on me and Vortex sent me a Mk II as a free replacement that I mounted on a AR instead. I'm going to set up another M1 carbine like this sometime, I just have to decide which one (I own 6 plus have Fulton Armory building me #7, odd's are that will be the one I rig like this) |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:31:23 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M2, caliber 50, heavy barrel... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My vote is for the M1 carbine. Sure the STG34 and the AK 47 are no-brainers, but what would be the oldest? Did something come before the M1 carbine that could hold a town on a modern battlefield? I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon. What would work from the 1930s or even earlier? Prototypes and concept weapons don’t count. It Has to be a weapon that was actually widely issued. M2, caliber 50, heavy barrel... The M2 .50 caliber machine gun is the oldest weapon still in U.S service and has the longest in service record to date. They’ve tried replacing it several times but it’s reliability has kept it the front runner despite having to set the head space when changing barrels. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:36:09 AM EST
[#35]
A knife. We still give them out.
Gun wise id say m2 50 |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:40:13 AM EST
[#36]
Sturmgewehr. 1944.
Go back two years further, FG42. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:40:37 AM EST
[#37]
Isn't the real purpose of small arms in war to pin the enemy down with fire until you can blow them to smithereens with HE? By that metric just about anything that can shoot and reload moderately fast could probably do the job if your fire support is effective, no? |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:25:18 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like almost nobody actually bothered to read the OP. Hardly surprising as the OP didn't read the OP either. The M-1 carbine was never a general issue weapon for infantrymen. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:46:01 PM EST
[#39]
1911, Garand, or maybe the older trench shotguns. I wouldn't sneeze at any of them.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:48:25 PM EST
[#40]
M-2 50 cal
Thompson smg for close combat Earliest rifle would be the Mauser maybe |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:58:56 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there any optics limitation? 1903 Springfield This should be tacticool enough for the mouthbreathers.  Attached File(Picture stolen from the internet) |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 1:59:37 PM EST
[#42]
1891 mauser, and a 1911, Argentina had it right the first time.
The 1891 is a fully modern bolt action, with well thought out has handling for ruptured case. And has a detachable mag or stripper clip loading. The 7.65 loading the military used is equivalent to modern 7.62 nato in all aspects. And they adopted the 1911 colt in 45 auto on short order also. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 3:34:05 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M2 .50 caliber machine gun is the oldest weapon still in U.S service and has the longest in service record to date. They’ve tried replacing it several times but it’s reliability has kept it the front runner despite having to set the head space when changing barrels. I don't believe this is true anymore |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 3:56:05 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hardly surprising as the OP didn't read the OP either. The M-1 carbine was never a general issue weapon for infantrymen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seems like almost nobody actually bothered to read the OP. Hardly surprising as the OP didn't read the OP either. The M-1 carbine was never a general issue weapon for infantrymen. Where in the OP does the OP state the weapon had to have historically been a general issue weapon for infantrymen ? The OP just stated "widely issued", which last I checked, the M1 carbine was indeed widely issued. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:20:34 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Schofield revolver could be used as a viable self-defense arm. Until it breaks, like they were prone to do. The new ones however have fixed this to my knowledge. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:22:23 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where in the OP does the OP state the weapon had to have historically been a general issue weapon for infantrymen ? The OP just stated "widely issued", which last I checked, the M1 carbine was indeed widely issued. to support troops not expected to engage the enemy as part of ordinary duties due to the inability to produce sufficient Garands in the quantity needed. OP also said "I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon." which never happened in US infantry companies. Which brings us to the point of the meaning of viable - effective to x meters? rate of fire? still manufactured today? etc. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:26:43 PM EST
[#47]
1873
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:32:53 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M2, caliber 50, heavy barrel... |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:36:42 PM EST
[#49]
Typhus
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:38:09 PM EST
[#50]
I would be more than happy with the Garand with black tip ammo. For close quarters, an MP40.
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