User Panel
Quoted: This is a legitimate function of a state "Child Protective Services" or equivalent. There is no reason to involved the police until CPS has determined the behavior is a result of an abusive home. The School has a problem child and the parents are of no use or can't be bothered to be available at a moments notice, call CPS. A 6 year old child that is abusive to others is likely the victim of abuse themselves. View Quote There's an awful lot of folks in this thread with opinions on what "should" or "ought" to happen, who have obviously never actually tried to make any of these things happen. It is a bureaucratic slog of epic proportions. |
|
Quoted:
In fact if the cops get called to a school and there is a 6 year old child that is so disruptive that the school felt the need to call the police, I think the first call the cops should make is to CPS and hand that shit off right there. View Quote I’ve never been able to call CPS, tell them “bitches it’s yours” and just leave the situation. |
|
Quoted:
I wonder if the people asking "what kind of cop would arrest a 6 year old" are the same people who tell their kids "see that policeman... he's going to take you to jail if you don't behave." I hear shit like that monthly when I'm out at lunch View Quote "Now Timmy, you behave yourself or that police officer over there is going to arrest you and take you to jail." That is all I hear. They're the same type of parents that call 911 because their kids won't get out of bed for school or do their homework. |
|
Quoted: Which doesn't solve the immediate problem of the violent and/or disruptive behavior and its effects on other children. Which is where things like protective orders are required if the school fails to act, which in turn is where police involvement is needed if for no other reason than to gather necessary data (names, addresses, DOBs, etc. for service of papers). There's an awful lot of folks in this thread with opinions on what "should" or "ought" to happen, who have obviously never actually tried to make any of these things happen. It is a bureaucratic slog of epic proportions. View Quote We only know what we are told by the experts. |
|
Quoted:
All the time. "Now Timmy, you behave yourself or that police officer over there is going to arrest you and take you to jail." That is all I hear. They're the same type of parents that call 911 because their kids won't get out of bed for school or do their homework. View Quote That said I've started telling folks who do that off, and then telling the kids that isnt my role in their lives |
|
pussy ass cop is probably a pedo... Likes to restrain 6 y.o. kids? Cuts his nuts off.
|
|
|
Quoted:
Immunity from civil damages for government employees for civil rights violations in certain situations, but misunderstood 99.9% of the time. 100% in GD, unless I'm here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
Is there a minimum age to arrest someone or something?
Sometimes kids are little shits too |
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
To be fair, he was a reserve officer. In many places reserves can fall into an "at will" status. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
Not in FL, but apparently some states do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there a minimum age to arrest someone or something? Sometimes kids are little shits too |
|
Quoted:
Come on now.....There are a few of us that understand it here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
then you are against qualified immunity for cops, yes? |
|
|
At what age can we start arresting people for assault?
do we have to wait until they're 18? 10 years old? who knows?!?! |
|
|
Quoted:
To be fair, he was a reserve officer. In many places reserves can fall into an "at will" status. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
I don't know about this story, but, several years ago one of the notorious local jurisdictions had an incident where a mother took her 8 year old and 11 year old daughters to the park. The kids got into a fight and someone called the police and the police came on scene and arrested the 8 year old for domestic violence and took her in. The mother went to the local news station and reported the arrest. The local station sent a reporter to the police dept. and a Lt. was interviewed outside the police dept. The Lt. said that when they are called to a domestic violence incident, "someone is going to jail." Even an 8 year old child. The reporter then went to the District Attorney's office and an Assistant District Attorney advised that his office had not received a referral from that police dept. for the child's criminal prosecution and he would decline it even if they did. Unfortunately, this police dept. has a long and infamous history.
|
|
In E.W. v. Dolgos, (4th Cir. 2018), the Fourth Circuit looked at a child handcuffing case inside a school by a SRO.
The analysis fell under the regular Graham Factors for excessive force cases. There are three factors to the “Graham Factors”: 1. "the severity of the crime at issue; 2. whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, 3.and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight." Graham, 490 U.S. at 396, 109 S.Ct. 1865. In E.W., it was a compliant 10 year old. The Court wasn't happy about it. Other non-4th circuit authority they relied on: The Ninth Circuit, applying the Graham factors, held that officers who handcuffed an eleven-year-old child used excessive force. Tekle v. United States , 511 F.3d 839, 846 (9th Cir. 2007) ("He was cooperative and unarmed and, most importantly, he was eleven years old."); see also Ikerd v. Blair , 101 F.3d 430, 435 (5th Cir. 1996) (holding that officer used excessive force against ten-year-old girl under Graham analysis). In addition, the Eleventh Circuit has held that "handcuffing was excessively intrusive given [the arrestee’s] young age." Gray ex rel. Alexander v. Bostic , 458 F.3d 1295, 1300–01, 1306 (11th Cir. 2006) (denying qualified immunity to SRO who handcuffed nine-year-old student for five minutes). Several district courts have similarly held that young age is a "uniquely" or "highly relevant" consideration under Graham . See Kenton II , 2017 WL 4545231, at *9 (holding that handcuffing eight-year-old child violated constitution); Hoskins v. Cumberland Cty. Bd. of Educ., No. 13-15, 2014 WL 7238621, at *7, 11 (M.D. Tenn. Dec. 17, 2014) (noting that eight-year-old student "was a startlingly young child to be handcuffed"); see also James v. Frederick Cty. Pub. Sch., 441 F.Supp.2d 755, 757, 759 (D. Md. 2006) (concluding that handcuffing eight-year-old child suggested excessive force). Here, E.W. was only ten years old at the time of the arrest. She therefore falls squarely within the tender age range for which the use of handcuffs is excessive absent exceptional circumstances. E.W. v. Dolgos, 884 F.3d 172 , 182 (4th Cir. 2018) Here's the kicker, lol. Even though the Court found an excessive force civil rights violation under the facts presented in E.W. v. Dolgos, given that none of the lawyers or judges involved found precedent sufficiently similar to the conduct involved, the Court granted qualified immunity to the police officer, but warned that “our excessive force holding is clearly established for any future qualified immunity cases involving similar circumstances. Id., 884 F.3d at 187. |
|
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there a minimum age to arrest someone or something? Sometimes kids are little shits too That bill was introduced by Sen. Randolph Bracy (D). He also introduces gun control every legislative session. A Republican Supermajority will not pass such a bill. |
|
Quoted:
Well once I went with 99.9, there was no wiggle room. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
then you are against qualified immunity for cops, yes? |
|
Quoted:
https://www.floridadaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Randolph-Bracy-1000x800.jpg That bill was introduced by Sen. Randolph Bracy (D). He also introduces gun control every legislative session. A Republican Supermajority will not pass such a bill. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I've already explained that. Just goes over their heads. View Quote If so... . If not, explain yourselves. Thanks. |
|
|
Quoted:
But the union. And all the cops here saying this was appropriate. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
Quoted:
As long as the 11th hasn't said the same thing it's like it never happened. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
but warned that “our excessive force holding is clearly established for any future qualified immunity cases involving similar circumstances. Id., 884 F.3d at 187. Gray ex rel. Alexander v. Bostic , 458 F.3d 1295, 1300–01, 1306 (11th Cir. 2006) (denying qualified immunity to SRO who handcuffed nine-year-old student for five minutes). Someone should probably read that. |
|
Quoted:
In CO you cannot be culpable until you are 10 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there a minimum age to arrest someone or something? Sometimes kids are little shits too BRB. Off to a third world country to recruit a team of 9 year old bank robbers. |
|
|
Quoted: So what is the point? That a regular full time police officer can arrest 6 year olds because a union will protect their jobs? Is that really an argument any of you want to make? If so... . If not, explain yourselves. Thanks. View Quote |
|
Quoted: Look at what I posted above. This is Florida, right? That's 11th Circuit I believe: Gray ex rel. Alexander v. Bostic , 458 F.3d 1295, 1300–01, 1306 (11th Cir. 2006) (denying qualified immunity to SRO who handcuffed nine-year-old student for five minutes). Someone should probably read that. View Quote |
|
|
Quoted: Look at what I posted above. This is Florida, right? That's 11th Circuit I believe: Gray ex rel. Alexander v. Bostic , 458 F.3d 1295, 1300–01, 1306 (11th Cir. 2006) (denying qualified immunity to SRO who handcuffed nine-year-old student for five minutes). Someone should probably read that. View Quote I get what the court is saying, but the argument swings the other way in court arguments. Perhaps they should legislate what age is the minimum standard for criminal intent and arrest. |
|
Quoted:
Ah, right in the feels. Wait, like me and the majority of cops he had no union. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
It's just terrible that he doesn't have a union to protect him from poor decision making. If he was a full timer, he wouldn't have been fired. He would have been suspended and the union would have been dragged in. Because he was a reserve officer, he was not a member of the collective bargaining unit, and the police union didn’t represent him, Shawn Dunlap of the Fraternal Order of Police Orlando Lodge 25, said in an email Tuesday. |
|
|
Quoted:
Then it should also be addressed by state statute. I get the issue before the court, but there is also legal precedence for when determining if someone was under arrest if they new they were under arrest and if their liberty to go was restricted. The ultimate common standard for determining if a subject was under arrest is if they were in restraints and if they were advised they were under arrest. I get what the court is saying, but the argument swings the other way in court arguments. Perhaps they should legislate what age is the minimum standard for criminal intent and arrest. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Look at what I posted above. This is Florida, right? That's 11th Circuit I believe: Gray ex rel. Alexander v. Bostic , 458 F.3d 1295, 1300–01, 1306 (11th Cir. 2006) (denying qualified immunity to SRO who handcuffed nine-year-old student for five minutes). Someone should probably read that. I get what the court is saying, but the argument swings the other way in court arguments. Perhaps they should legislate what age is the minimum standard for criminal intent and arrest. |
|
Quoted: To be fair, he was a reserve officer. In many places reserves can fall into an "at will" status. View Quote What EXACTLY did you mean by this post if you didn't mean a union would have likely protected him if he were full time? Take your time. I have several hours of nothing to do. |
|
Quoted:
So what is the point? That a regular full time police officer can arrest 6 year olds because a union will protect their jobs? Is that really an argument any of you want to make? If so... . If not, explain yourselves. Thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I've already explained that. Just goes over their heads. If so... . If not, explain yourselves. Thanks. |
|
Quoted:
What does the opposite of at will mean in the context of being fired. What EXACTLY did you mean by this post if you didn't mean a union would have likely protected him if he were full time? Take your time. I have several hours of nothing to do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: To be fair, he was a reserve officer. In many places reserves can fall into an "at will" status. What EXACTLY did you mean by this post if you didn't mean a union would have likely protected him if he were full time? Take your time. I have several hours of nothing to do. IF HE WAS COVERED BY THE UNION, THEY WOULD HAVE FOUGHT TO PREVENT HIS TERMINATION DUE TO THEM BEING HIRED AS SUCH SINCE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THEIR CLIENT. No different than an individual hiring a defense lawyer even if they're guilty. It is the Union's job to defend and represent their members. Union Members are fired all the time. But it isn't like an at will employee being fired. |
|
Quoted:
What does the opposite of at will mean in the context of being fired. What EXACTLY did you mean by this post if you didn't mean a union would have likely protected him if he were full time? Take your time. I have several hours of nothing to do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: To be fair, he was a reserve officer. In many places reserves can fall into an "at will" status. What EXACTLY did you mean by this post if you didn't mean a union would have likely protected him if he were full time? Take your time. I have several hours of nothing to do. My original comment was directed at the fact that I was not surprised he was fired, as their is no necessity to have cause to "fire" the reserve and their is no appeal process for the reserve either. It is very easy and can be common to see "at-will" employees or volunteers terminated at the blink of an eye if they are involved in a controversial situation or incident in my area. |
|
Quoted:
If he had gotten permission to transport the girl elsewhere, common sense would be to get another officer to ride along without her cuffed if she wasn’t acting up. You have to admit handcuffing a non-combative 6 year old is bad PR View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What does a 6 year old do that causes them to be arrested? I'm pretty sure it's not angelic behavior I'm pretty sure it's not angelic behavior You have to admit handcuffing a non-combative 6 year old is bad PR |
|
Quoted:
Imagine the PR when the kid says the cop touched her private parts during transport View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What does a 6 year old do that causes them to be arrested? I'm pretty sure it's not angelic behavior I'm pretty sure it's not angelic behavior You have to admit handcuffing a non-combative 6 year old is bad PR |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.