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Posted: 8/25/2019 7:24:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Codebreaking, specifically the work at Bletchley Park (UK) and Arlington Hall (USA) deciphering the Lorenz, Enigma, and Purple codes.
 
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Posted: 8/25/2019 7:25:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Dupe deleted
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Posted: 8/25/2019 7:30:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your FIL's opinion is understandable. And being on the subject of interesting, Skorzeny definitely was interesting... a valuable assett to both Hitler and Mossad. 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-R81453%2C_SS-Obersturmbannf%C3%BChrer_Otto_Skorzeny_an_der_Oder.jpg |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 8:45:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've grown more interested in the Fallschirmjaeger over the years. My FIL was in the Fallschirmjaeger until he was captured at Brest in Sept 1944. He spent the next four or five years in a POW camp in England. They kept the SS, Uboat crews, and Fallschirmjaeger prisoners well after the war because the Allies were afraid that they would stir stuff up if released. I wish I had spent more time talking to my FIL about his service. He would talk to me because of my background. The operation that interested me the most was Gran Sasso. My FIL was there and had a different perspective on that operation than what you read. He mentioned it the first time we met and I made the mistake of mentioning Skorzeny. There was no love lost there. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 9:21:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've grown more interested in the Fallschirmjaeger over the years. My FIL was in the Fallschirmjaeger until he was captured at Brest in Sept 1944. He spent the next four or five years in a POW camp in England. They kept the SS, Uboat crews, and Fallschirmjaeger prisoners well after the war because the Allies were afraid that they would stir stuff up if released. I wish I had spent more time talking to my FIL about his service. He would talk to me because of my background. The operation that interested me the most was Gran Sasso. My FIL was there and had a different perspective on that operation than what you read. He mentioned it the first time we met and I made the mistake of mentioning Skorzeny. There was no love lost there.  German Paratrooper Prison Break 1944 cool story about some paras that escaped from Brest via rescue/ruse.. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 9:42:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The most interesting aspect of WWll to me is how close Germany came to totally ruling Europe. If Hitler would have left Russia and England alone Germany would be in charge still today. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 9:44:01 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm amazed that people are still swinging their purses over it. In this thread.
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Posted: 8/25/2019 9:48:13 PM EDT
[#8]
I've read about WWII for a long time, all of it is fascinating. The part I follow the most these days is how the peace settlement of 1945 is very slowly failing. Remember, Germany was divided first into 4 zones, then 2 countries. The U.N. was supposed to be a forum for settling international disagreements. Europe would be split between East and West. The U.S. Dollar was backed by gold to prevent huge swings in currency valuation. Japan was completely disarmed. China and the Middle East were all but ignored. America was the only country that had The Bomb.
We are slowly but surely heading in the direction of doing it again. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:00:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish you were wrong. But you're not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Came here to post this. It's become trendy to claim that the Soviets won the war and American contributions were minimal, the Pacific Theater was a side show, etc. The United States performed the impossible during that war. But you're not. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:09:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The most interesting aspect of WWll to me is how close Germany came to totally ruling Europe. If Hitler would have left Russia and England alone Germany would be in charge still today. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:14:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 . LoL. Ze German wonder weapons were interesting, but not a game changer. Britain and America had already invented a more robust and practical jet engine, and could make thousands. But more importantly, the allies had unlimited Fuel, and the means to move it world wide. It is amazing how well the Germans did initially, but they couldn't have won, without Logistics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Jets, if Hitler had 12 more months we'd be speaking German. . LoL. Ze German wonder weapons were interesting, but not a game changer. Britain and America had already invented a more robust and practical jet engine, and could make thousands. But more importantly, the allies had unlimited Fuel, and the means to move it world wide. It is amazing how well the Germans did initially, but they couldn't have won, without Logistics. Ironically, it was because the German Army had been destroyed by the Treaty of Versailles and thus Hitler and Guderian and other visionaries were able to build an entirely new force based on new Blitzkrieg tactics. The allied armies of 1939-1941 were all built for fighting World War I, and didn't change their doctrine until they were forced to. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:36:27 PM EDT
[#12]
it is interesting that Germans in WW1 didn't really have tanks... other than a few mobile fortress type things... but they were subjected to massed tank attacks... the allies were not... apparently the Germans learned some lessons lost on the allies..
and of course the allies won so naturally they believed they knew what they were doing... while as said the Germans lost and were stictly limited in their defensive arms, and as a result had to figure out how to do more with less... so innovated. I've read more than once that the sharp, decisive and mobile battle is actually a longtime Prussian way of war for hundreds of years before WW2 as they were smack in the middle of several relatively large and dangerous military adversaries so had to operate as such to be effective. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:42:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like if Hitler had 12 more months B-29s would have dropped Little Boy on Berlin. The Germans could have hit back with their own NBCs. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:44:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, ours were right around the corner. Gloster Meteors were used in combat before the war ended, and the first P-80s were shipped to England and Italy in early 1945. By 1946 the Germans would have the Ta183. This is what the Soviets copied the Mig15 from. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 10:55:15 PM EDT
[#15]
A period of time I will never experience. We are so caught up with what we think is important and so few really have any idea how great of a country we have here. That generation seemed to mostly get it. My generation does not..
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:05:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Ramsey Winch made so many truck winches that ended up in government surpluses, the State Dept was still giving them away (NIB)with foreign aid into the 1990's.
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:07:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Battle of Stalingrad the Germans/Italians/Hungarians lost 800,000 killed, wounded, captured. Russians lost 1,100,000 killed, wounded, captured. 40,000 civilians killed. People today would not have the stomach to fight a battle like that. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:09:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The millions of Russian soldiers that were taken prisoner by Germany with a great majority never to return home. On that note, the vast number of young men all sides lost and future impact on society. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:12:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve always been fascinated by the naval war in the Mediterranean. The Royal Navy (led by two of its best admirals, Cunningham and Somerville) against the sometimes feckless, sometimes dangerous Italian Regia Marina, backed by the German air force and small craft. There were heavily fought reinforcement convoys to Malta, British raids on German and Italian convoys to Libya, battleship and cruiser engagements, underwater commando raids, and the longest ship-to-ship gunnery hit in history: HMS Warspite on the Giulio Cesare at 26,000 yards. It’s also interesting how the Italians were hampered by stereotypical characteristics: munitions makers manufacture a top notch batch of shells for the testing of their new 15-inch guns to get the contract, then make them really cheaply for the main production run (except for when they knew a navy quality inspection was being done). Resulted in their newest battleships, which had excellent fire control and extremely accurate guns, having some of the worst shooting in naval history, with some salvoes having a dispersion of a mile or so. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:21:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Largest tank battle in the history of the world. Glantz Lecture--Battle of Brody This is something that has come out in the last ten-fifteen years, so don't be embarrassed you didn't know about it. The Soviets kept it obscured because they lost. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:23:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Hey OP,
Thanks for the great thread. It was the high point of a crappy day for me. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:31:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure about how this would have played out. The Germans could have hit back with their own NBCs. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:34:17 PM EDT
[#23]
The fact that history has largely been re-written and the National Socialist German Workers party has been taught as "far right wing" for decades on end. I guess I wouldn't call this interesting, frustrating is more like it.
The expansion of the Nazis into South America I found pretty interesting, and the fact that declassified US intelligence documents show we were still searching for Hitler after the war in South America. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:37:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kursk was not the largest tank battle of the war, or in the history of the world. That distinction actually goes to the Battle of Brody in '41. Glantz Lecture--Battle of Brody This is something that has come out in the last ten-fifteen years, so don't be embarrassed you didn't know about it. The Soviets kept it obscured because they lost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Largest tank battle in the history of the world. Glantz Lecture--Battle of Brody This is something that has come out in the last ten-fifteen years, so don't be embarrassed you didn't know about it. The Soviets kept it obscured because they lost. Battle of Brody German tanks=750 Russian= 3,500 Battle of Kursk In 2 phases of the battle 1st phase Operation Citadel German tanks=2,928 Russian=5,128 Soviet counter offensive German tanks=3,253 Russian=7,360 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Brody_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:41:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure about how this would have played out. The Germans could have hit back with their own NBCs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: More like if Hitler had 12 more months B-29s would have dropped Little Boy on Berlin. The Germans could have hit back with their own NBCs.
ETA: The Kraut worship on this site borders on being creepy. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:42:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I knew they had a dispersion problem, but they delayed the firing of the centre gun to alleviate it. Source? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’ve always been fascinated by the naval war in the Mediterranean. The Royal Navy (led by two of its best admirals, Cunningham and Somerville) against the sometimes feckless, sometimes dangerous Italian Regia Marina, backed by the German air force and small craft. There were heavily fought reinforcement convoys to Malta, British raids on German and Italian convoys to Libya, battleship and cruiser engagements, underwater commando raids, and the longest ship-to-ship gunnery hit in history: HMS Warspite on the Giulio Cesare at 26,000 yards. It’s also interesting how the Italians were hampered by stereotypical characteristics: munitions makers manufacture a top notch batch of shells for the testing of their new 15-inch guns to get the contract, then make them really cheaply for the main production run (except for when they knew a navy quality inspection was being done). Resulted in their newest battleships, which had excellent fire control and extremely accurate guns, having some of the worst shooting in naval history, with some salvoes having a dispersion of a mile or so. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:43:22 PM EDT
[#27]
that we declared war on germany...
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:53:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jets, if Hitler had 12 more months we'd be speaking German. OP, lots of topics. I keep circling back to Krupp. As a whole though it is the air war, and the amazing surge of technology. |
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Posted: 8/25/2019 11:56:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Also operation Reinhard.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 12:00:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that we declared war on germany... |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 12:06:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You serious Clark? We gave the Japanese no other option while they invaded everyone else within their sphere/range? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 12:12:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wat?
ETA: The Kraut worship on this site borders on being creepy. In the V-2 they had an unstoppable delivery method. A dozen of them could have killed most of London. Not quite sure how reading about WW2 = kraut worship.  Particularly if you're pro-Anglosphere.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 12:20:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's correct. FDR put an oil embargo on the Japanese. That's an act of war in the 20th century. There were about 7 other things FDR did that were highly provocative to the Japanese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You serious Clark? We gave the Japanese no other option while they invaded everyone else within their sphere/range? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 12:26:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think he froze their assets kinda like Iran too didn't he..? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 1:03:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Eastern Front. Had it not happened, Europe would be a way different place. Of course, Pearl Harbor as well.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 1:09:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jets, if Hitler had 12 more months we'd be speaking German. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 1:13:01 AM EDT
[#37]
Blacks..
Tons of Asians Arabs and Latins served in the German Army. Also hundreds of thousands of Jews secretly. I met a Filipino Spanish veteran of the Wehrmacht who served in the East and in France with no issues and no racial crap. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 1:27:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I was referring to is the fact that the Germans had developed and were producing massive amounts of Tabun. It was deployable on the V-1 and V-2. They had something like 5,000-6,000 tons of it! In the V-2 they had an unstoppable delivery method. A dozen of them could have killed most of London. Not quite sure how reading about WW2 = kraut worship. Particularly if you're pro-Anglosphere. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 1:37:00 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's correct. FDR put an oil embargo on the Japanese. That's an act of war in the 20th century. There were about 7 other things FDR did that were highly provocative to the Japanese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo And that isn’t an act of war. Wasn’t then, isn’t now. Unless OAPEC declared war on us and others in ‘73. Doesn’t look that way from here. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 1:50:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guys like you who fetishize the Russian contribution, don’t have any understanding of Logistics. If you ever saw the long lines of trains, ships, or huge airplanes involved with moving a Battalion, you would know better. The Nazis didn’t understand Logistics either, or they never would have started the war. Britain controlled the ocean, and America supplied nearly everything the Soviets needed. Germany was Blockaded, just like in WWI, and that’s what defeated them. Imagine being a German commander, and being short on everything, from food, to fuel, to oil, to parts, to medicine, to clothing, to ammunition of every kind. And in spite of all this, they still won nearly every battle with the Russians. You’ve lived a sheltered life, if you can’t picture how important Logistics is to waging modern war. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:02:58 AM EDT
[#41]
The fact that there was a difference of four inches between nazi rail gauge and Russian rail gauge. 4 inches kept the nazi supply lines from reaching all the way to Stalingrad, four freaking inches!
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:04:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact that there was a difference of four inches between nazi rail gauge and Russian rail gauge. 4 inches kept the nazi supply lines from reaching all the way to Stalingrad, four freaking inches! |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:09:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what she said.
I really don’t want to know when she would say that. A difference of four inches kept the Nazi supply lines from reaching Stalingrad...
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:10:55 AM EDT
[#44]
The scale of the death never ceases to amaze me.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:24:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Choosing armaments was critical for Germany. They were a continental army. With the exception of subs their navy was all but useless. If Hitler had used the steel used to build the Bismark to build Tiger II tanks instead, he would have done far better. He could have built 5900 of them instead of the 490 he did build, for example.I doubt Russian armor would have faired as well as they did if that had been the case. Factor in the diversion of steel, fuel, manpower, explosives, and support facilities from the other battleships Germany built and Patton could have had his balls shot off from the get go. Germany could have had many more subs, or even more transport vehicles. The war was lost by Germany's lack of logistics and misplaced choices in armaments it needed to win. The desire of wanting battleships which never even sunk their own weight collectively, was a blunder of monumental proportion.
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:39:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Choosing armaments was critical for Germany. They were a continental army. With the exception of subs their navy was all but useless. If Hitler had used the steel used to build the Bismark to build Tiger II tanks instead, he would have done far better. He could have built 5900 of them instead of the 490 he did build, for example.I doubt Russian armor would have faired as well as they did if that had been the case. Factor in the diversion of steel, fuel, manpower, explosives, and support facilities from the other battleships Germany built and Patton could have had his balls shot off from the get go. Germany could have had many more subs, or even more transport vehicles. The war was lost by Germany's lack of logistics and misplaced choices in armaments it needed to win. The desire of wanting battleships which never even sunk their own weight collectively, was a blunder of monumental proportion. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:41:48 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn’t matter how many, if you can’t feed, arm or clothe them. That’s been true, since before the days of Napoleon. I’m not an expert, but I enjoy learning about whole World war. It’s endlessly fascinating. You should try it. We used Russia as a client state, to help defeat our enemies. They didn’t quit in the face of overwhelming losses, and they eventually learned to be effective with the logistics that we provided. Nobody is trying to take that away from them. How many gallons of gasoline did the Russians produce from 1940-1945? How many tons of Steel? |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:42:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The scale of the death never ceases to amaze me. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:43:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really don't want to know when she would say that. A difference of four inches kept the Nazi supply lines from reaching Stalingrad... But the real problem was the partisans blowing up the rail line in half a million places, literally. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 2:50:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that we declared war on germany... Which ultimately included the combined heavy bombing campaigns that sucked up something like 75% of Germany's high-velocity gun and shell production and the lion's share of the Luftwaffe's fighter arm. |
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