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Posted: 9/10/2015 3:42:16 PM EST
[#1]
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Then his programming sucks and it has nothing to do with "farm boy strong" vs. "gym strong"....or his programming is geared for pure strength with no endurance due to HIS goals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I helped a co-worker move some furniture to her new apartment years ago. I'm a fairly thin guy, I don't work out at gyms but I do some outdoor work that city guys never do. She brought along a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym. He was constantly having to take breaks, he'd stop and have problems carrying things on steps. It clearly wasn't doing him any real world good. My girlfriend calls me "farm boy strong".  Then his programming sucks and it has nothing to do with "farm boy strong" vs. "gym strong"....or his programming is geared for pure strength with no endurance due to HIS goals. You took that farm boy strong thing way too seriously. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 3:47:58 PM EST
[#2]
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It sure surprises powerlifters who like to think that their one rep max makes them better than everyone at everything 
Huh? What are you getting at? People are better at what they train to...all other things being equal, a bodybuilder will be better at higher reps, sub maximal weights, and a power lifter would have a higher 1RM. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 3:48:52 PM EST
[#3]
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You took that farm boy strong thing way too seriously. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I helped a co-worker move some furniture to her new apartment years ago. I'm a fairly thin guy, I don't work out at gyms but I do some outdoor work that city guys never do. She brought along a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym. He was constantly having to take breaks, he'd stop and have problems carrying things on steps. It clearly wasn't doing him any real world good. My girlfriend calls me "farm boy strong". Then his programming sucks and it has nothing to do with "farm boy strong" vs. "gym strong"....or his programming is geared for pure strength with no endurance due to HIS goals. You took that farm boy strong thing way too seriously. It's a common myth that is constantly perpetuated. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 3:50:48 PM EST
[#4]
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O Beat me to it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so the disks in your spine bulk up right along with your legs? how about bone density? thanks for the help guys GD is the place for lerning nolige Why are you asking about disks? I have no idea what you're getting at. Yes, resistance training increases bone density, as well as ligament and tendon strength. A quick google with corroborate this. ETA- and increased bone density and stronger connective tissue will serve to protect all your joints better. Beat me to it. the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:00:54 PM EST
[#5]
I
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It's a common myth that is constantly perpetuated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I helped a co-worker move some furniture to her new apartment years ago. I'm a fairly thin guy, I don't work out at gyms but I do some outdoor work that city guys never do. She brought along a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym. He was constantly having to take breaks, he'd stop and have problems carrying things on steps. It clearly wasn't doing him any real world good. My girlfriend calls me "farm boy strong". Then his programming sucks and it has nothing to do with "farm boy strong" vs. "gym strong"....or his programming is geared for pure strength with no endurance due to HIS goals. You took that farm boy strong thing way too seriously. It's a common myth that is constantly perpetuated. Funny story. My wife decided to give away an old upright piano that we had in our basement. A co-worker of hers sent her husband, adult son and two other adult male friends to the house to pick it up. When they arrived I showed them where the piano was stored in our walk out basement, and showed them where to pull their trailer around to load up out the back door. I mentioned that the piano was fairly heavy, and offered to help them lift it over the threshold of the door. They declined any help, saying that they were all "farmboys" and could handle it without problem. Well, they maneuvered the piano to the back door, and despite having a guy on each corner, could not lift the piano high enough to go over the threshold. They grunted and pulled, but made it look like the piano was glued to the floor. My brother was in town (some of you might remember my pic in my old avatar; my brother also lifts and is a slightly heavier, shorter version of me), so he got on one end with me on the other and we carried the piano out the door and up the trailer ramp. The 4 farmboys drove off. I often wondered how they fared getting it out of the trailer and into their home. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:06:47 PM EST
[#6]
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the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so the disks in your spine bulk up right along with your legs? how about bone density? thanks for the help guys GD is the place for lerning nolige Why are you asking about disks? I have no idea what you're getting at. Yes, resistance training increases bone density, as well as ligament and tendon strength. A quick google with corroborate this. ETA- and increased bone density and stronger connective tissue will serve to protect all your joints better. Beat me to it. the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try Neither RoG nor I are advocating trying to move weight beyond your body's current limit. Guys that move heavy weight consistently (and I have been doing it for decades) know how to train correctly and gradually increase strength. Strength of the muscles, joints, tendons and ligaments involved in the movement. I am an advocate of compound lifts, not lifts that isolate a particular muscle. Part of the reason why is to help minimize injury to the supporting structures. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:12:44 PM EST
[#7]
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Yeah press may not be for you. I'm surprised you can bench without pain. Do you do a pretty narrow bench grip? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've suffered from rotator cuff inflammation and impingement since my pitching days in baseball years ago. It seems to come and go, but excessive overhead work is a surefire way to bring it on. Maybe my form is just shit. Using dumbells seems to keep it to a minimum though. Yeah press may not be for you. I'm surprised you can bench without pain. Do you do a pretty narrow bench grip? Narrower than most of my lifting partners. I tend to bring the weight down a bit lower on my chest as well while keeping my elbows tucked, emphasizing my triceps. I also won't touch an incline bar. I use dumbells there as well. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:15:53 PM EST
[#8]
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Narrower than most of my lifting partners. I tend to bring the weight down a bit lower on my chest as well, emphasizing my triceps. I also won't touch an incline bar. I use dumbells there as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've suffered from rotator cuff inflammation and impingement since my pitching days in baseball years ago. It seems to come and go, but excessive overhead work is a surefire way to bring it on. Maybe my form is just shit. Using dumbells seems to keep it to a minimum though. Yeah press may not be for you. I'm surprised you can bench without pain. Do you do a pretty narrow bench grip? Narrower than most of my lifting partners. I tend to bring the weight down a bit lower on my chest as well, emphasizing my triceps. I also won't touch an incline bar. I use dumbells there as well. A neutral grip position (as you note with dumbbells) can help alleviate rotatorcuff strain when pressing, either overhead or bench. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:18:39 PM EST
[#9]
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A real measure of strength as used by the NFL is how many time one can do 225 Quite frankly I don't understand what that has to do with football since the average play takes 5-7 seconds. As a football player we trained to have a big one rep max as explosive power and speed is what is needed to move other big guys in a hurry. Interestingly enough, I can do 225 26 times. I have a buddy who I watched do it 43. I have a higher one rep max than him. Everyone is different. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:21:37 PM EST
[#10]
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A neutral grip position (as you note with dumbbells) can help alleviate rotatorcuff strain when pressing, either overhead or bench. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've suffered from rotator cuff inflammation and impingement since my pitching days in baseball years ago. It seems to come and go, but excessive overhead work is a surefire way to bring it on. Maybe my form is just shit. Using dumbells seems to keep it to a minimum though. Yeah press may not be for you. I'm surprised you can bench without pain. Do you do a pretty narrow bench grip? Narrower than most of my lifting partners. I tend to bring the weight down a bit lower on my chest as well, emphasizing my triceps. I also won't touch an incline bar. I use dumbells there as well. A neutral grip position (as you note with dumbbells) can help alleviate rotatorcuff strain when pressing, either overhead or bench. Yes I feel on some exercises dumbells allow a more natural range of motion, while having the added benefit of strengthening the small muscles that stabilize the shoulder. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:37:04 PM EST
[#11]
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A real measure of strength as used by the NFL is how many time one can do 225 Not strength |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:37:34 PM EST
[#12]
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the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try Quote HistoryQuoted:
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O Quoted:
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so the disks in your spine bulk up right along with your legs? how about bone density? thanks for the help guys GD is the place for lerning nolige Why are you asking about disks? I have no idea what you're getting at. Yes, resistance training increases bone density, as well as ligament and tendon strength. A quick google with corroborate this. ETA- and increased bone density and stronger connective tissue will serve to protect all your joints better. Beat me to it. the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try Oh, were you trying to convey an idea? That didn't come across. At all. What you said was "So the disks in your spine bulk up with your legs". That's not even a complete thought, let alone a coherent one. So it seems to me that your position is "hitting a true one rep max can be risky, and the risk isn't worth it for me". Cool. You should have just said that in the first place. Nobody would argue with you. Yes, hitting a true 1RM can be risky, and a lot of people don't really ever need to unless they want to. There are a ton of programs one can follow where you do various rep schemes without hitting a 1RM. For those that do choose to do 1RMs following a good program will help ensure all the connective tissue is strong enough to bear the attempt...as long as you aren't stupid. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:39:43 PM EST
[#13]
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Funny story. My wife decided to give away an old upright piano that we had in our basement. A co-worker of hers sent her husband, adult son and two other adult male friends to the house to pick it up. When they arrived I showed them where the piano was stored in our walk out basement, and showed them where to pull their trailer around to load up out the back door. I mentioned that the piano was fairly heavy, and offered to help them lift it over the threshold of the door. They declined any help, saying that they were all "farmboys" and could handle it without problem. Well, they maneuvered the piano to the back door, and despite having a guy on each corner, could not lift the piano high enough to go over the threshold. They grunted and pulled, but made it look like the piano was glued to the floor. My brother was in town (some of you might remember my pic in my old avatar; my brother also lifts and is a slightly heavier, shorter version of me), so he got on one end with me on the other and we carried the piano out the door and up the trailer ramp. The 4 farmboys drove off. I often wondered how they fared getting it out of the trailer and into their home. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny story. My wife decided to give away an old upright piano that we had in our basement. A co-worker of hers sent her husband, adult son and two other adult male friends to the house to pick it up. When they arrived I showed them where the piano was stored in our walk out basement, and showed them where to pull their trailer around to load up out the back door. I mentioned that the piano was fairly heavy, and offered to help them lift it over the threshold of the door. They declined any help, saying that they were all "farmboys" and could handle it without problem. Well, they maneuvered the piano to the back door, and despite having a guy on each corner, could not lift the piano high enough to go over the threshold. They grunted and pulled, but made it look like the piano was glued to the floor. My brother was in town (some of you might remember my pic in my old avatar; my brother also lifts and is a slightly heavier, shorter version of me), so he got on one end with me on the other and we carried the piano out the door and up the trailer ramp. The 4 farmboys drove off. I often wondered how they fared getting it out of the trailer and into their home. Ha, yep sounds about right. Some people seem to think those hay bales exist in some sort of alternate reality where it effects their body differently than my barbell. Guess what, if I can snatch 240# over head in one smooth motion, your hay bale isn't going to give me any grief. Quoted:
Neither RoG nor I are advocating trying to move weight beyond your body's current limit. Guys that move heavy weight consistently (and I have been doing it for decades) know how to train correctly and gradually increase strength. Strength of the muscles, joints, tendons and ligaments involved in the movement. I am an advocate of compound lifts, not lifts that isolate a particular muscle. Part of the reason why is to help minimize injury to the supporting structures. Exactly. This is where knowing your body and following a smart program comes in. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:42:28 PM EST
[#14]
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Narrower than most of my lifting partners. I tend to bring the weight down a bit lower on my chest as well while keeping my elbows tucked, emphasizing my triceps. I also won't touch an incline bar. I use dumbells there as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've suffered from rotator cuff inflammation and impingement since my pitching days in baseball years ago. It seems to come and go, but excessive overhead work is a surefire way to bring it on. Maybe my form is just shit. Using dumbells seems to keep it to a minimum though. Yeah press may not be for you. I'm surprised you can bench without pain. Do you do a pretty narrow bench grip? Narrower than most of my lifting partners. I tend to bring the weight down a bit lower on my chest as well while keeping my elbows tucked, emphasizing my triceps. I also won't touch an incline bar. I use dumbells there as well. That makes sense. I've always preferred the narrower grip too, I might not be able to move as much but it focuses on the triceps (which is a weakness for me) and feels better on the shoulders. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:43:33 PM EST
[#15]
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the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try Quote HistoryQuoted:
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O Quoted:
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so the disks in your spine bulk up right along with your legs? how about bone density? thanks for the help guys GD is the place for lerning nolige Why are you asking about disks? I have no idea what you're getting at. Yes, resistance training increases bone density, as well as ligament and tendon strength. A quick google with corroborate this. ETA- and increased bone density and stronger connective tissue will serve to protect all your joints better. Beat me to it. the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try This is largely a crock of shit. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:46:47 PM EST
[#16]
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This is largely a crock of shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so the disks in your spine bulk up right along with your legs? how about bone density? thanks for the help guys GD is the place for lerning nolige Why are you asking about disks? I have no idea what you're getting at. Yes, resistance training increases bone density, as well as ligament and tendon strength. A quick google with corroborate this. ETA- and increased bone density and stronger connective tissue will serve to protect all your joints better. Beat me to it. the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try This is largely a crock of shit. He's talking about morons without a good program who go attempt a max way over their ability and hurt themselves, or the occasional guy who just has a bad lift and hurts himself. Oddly enough, every time I've hurt myself it's been at sub maximal loads, but that's not the point. I guess his point is that there are risks with lifting heavy. And to which I have a two part reply: 1. In other news, water is wet 2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak But YMMV of course, and not everyone shares the same priorities I do. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:50:26 PM EST
[#17]
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2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak 1. That's 'cause you ain't old yet 2. Those aren't the only two alternatives |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:53:24 PM EST
[#18]
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1. That's 'cause you ain't old yet 2. Those aren't the only two alternatives Quote HistoryQuoted:
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2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak 1. That's 'cause you ain't old yet 2. Those aren't the only two alternatives Lol, you know what I'm getting at. There are risks in anything we do. There are risks in triathlons are there not? Yet you accept the risk because it's worth it to you. I accept the moderate risk of lifting heavy because I like it, and like getting stronger...and I say that with a current injury. I'm ok with it because I injured myself working at getting more awesome. Granted I push myself harder than I have to, but that's because of my personal goals. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 4:55:46 PM EST
[#19]
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He's talking about morons without a good program who go attempt a max way over their ability and hurt themselves, or the occasional guy who just has a bad lift and hurts himself. Oddly enough, every time I've hurt myself it's been at sub maximal loads, but that's not the point. I guess his point is that there are risks with lifting heavy. And to which I have a two part reply: 1. In other news, water is wet 2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak But YMMV of course, and not everyone shares the same priorities I do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you asking about disks? I have no idea what you're getting at. Yes, resistance training increases bone density, as well as ligament and tendon strength. A quick google with corroborate this. ETA- and increased bone density and stronger connective tissue will serve to protect all your joints better. Beat me to it. the question is: why don't I like to max out? the rate of increase in muscle strength is not necessarily exactly matched by the rate of increase in strength of all the elements in the load path so the muscle can be strong enough to support loads that damage the other elements like for example your legs can squat a load that might damage your spine blow out a disk or damage a knee ligament this is just common knowledge from thousands of people injuring themselves also, it's not guaranteed that you will always perform an exercise exactly right that's why I don't max out on some exercises, the reward isn't worth the potential harm to say that a guy who maxes out at 500 lbs on a bench press will absolutely positively have 500lb rotator cuffs is a dumb idea I guess it's impossible to convey this idea to you so that's my last try This is largely a crock of shit. He's talking about morons without a good program who go attempt a max way over their ability and hurt themselves, or the occasional guy who just has a bad lift and hurts himself. Oddly enough, every time I've hurt myself it's been at sub maximal loads, but that's not the point. I guess his point is that there are risks with lifting heavy. And to which I have a two part reply: 1. In other news, water is wet 2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak But YMMV of course, and not everyone shares the same priorities I do. Being as I'm a pretty new lifter, only having started in December of last year, I have to prove a lot of things for myself before I believe them. One of these things is the Epley formula for calculating max lift capacities based on your number or repetitions with with sub-max weights. I have found that as long as I'm reasonably close and can only get 3-5 reps with a weight, it gives me very close values to the number I hit when I go all the way to my max. In fact, I no longer bother with max efforts because at 40yo, I'm really never going to need that in a competition or something and it's just a risk. I can mitigate that risk by staying several percentage points below max and doing a few reps instead. Just today I hit a new PR for my dead-lift at 402lbs, using that calculation. All the while, I'm improving my ability to support that weight with all the other parts of the body besides just the basic muscles being primarily trained. Works great. And a healthy spine is one with a lot of muscle to take load off the spine and protect it from being damaged. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:01:58 PM EST
[#20]
Looking at diagrams is one thing, but if you've ever de-boned a mammal during butchering, like a deer, you see all kinds of little minor muscles and ligaments all over the body that are beside, below and around all the major muscles and intertwined with all the small bones. There are even muscles for your skin. It's all those little muscles that comprise your core strength, all the way to the little muscles all down in the bones of your feet. And why a power clean to overhead press (standing erect) is so agonizing. It uses all those hundreds of little ass core muscles in your body all the way down to your soles of your feet in order to stabilize the weight as it goes through the motion and is held over your head.
Your body tells you what you need to work on. The stuff that gives you difficulty is where you need improvement. The stuff you find easy and want to do is not where you need the work. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:04:20 PM EST
[#21]
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A real measure of strength as used by the NFL is how many time one can do 225 Head trainer at my gym did 19 in the combine |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:06:05 PM EST
[#22]
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He's talking about morons without a good program who go attempt a max way over their ability and hurt themselves, or the occasional guy who just has a bad lift and hurts himself. Oddly enough, every time I've hurt myself it's been at sub maximal loads, but that's not the point. I guess his point is that there are risks with lifting heavy. And to which I have a two part reply: 1. In other news, water is wet 2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak But YMMV of course, and not everyone shares the same priorities I do. He leads off with the question "why I don't max out?" and repeats it in his response...so I assume he was talking about himself. Unless you are calling him a moron? 
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:07:53 PM EST
[#23]
Strength is under rated, muscles are over rated.
Everyone has seen the guys at the gym that work their arms/chest for 6 hours straight and have a disproportionate upper body that sometimes makes their legs look tiny (dont skip leg day!) or the people that are in the gym all the time yet don't really get any utility strength from all their working out. When I deployed to Kosovo, we had 2 guys that looked like they could lift a car over their heads; one was somewhere around the size of that huge dude in Heartbreak Ridge. Being in a mountain division (1st Gebirgs; Bundeswehr) we readily trained on the Austrian border with full kit mountain hikes, bypasses, ambushes, etc. I'll let you guess who was always bringing up the DISTANT rear and who was always out of breathe let alone had the smallest body weight to pack weight ratio yet had the hardest time with it. I can bench my body weight of 185 a few times in repetition. That's all I need as far as benching. To me endurance and lower body strength are more important. Right now I do upper body weights on Day 1 as well as 1x cardio, Cardio x1 plus 4 mile ruck with 65lbs @ 4mph pace for Day 2, Day 3 Leg Day, Day 4 Cardio x2 , Day 5 upper body weights plus 4 mile ruck with 65lbs @ 4mph pace, Day 6 Cardio x2, Day 7 Rest. I'll toss in an additional rest day as I go as sometimes I can sense I am going to end up injury something over over doing it; which is very important to do. Other than that, I am much much more rounded than the guys at the gym that can bench 700lbs. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:08:58 PM EST
[#24]
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He leads off with the question "why I don't max out?" and repeats it in his response...so I assume he was talking about himself. Unless you are calling him a moron?
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He's talking about morons without a good program who go attempt a max way over their ability and hurt themselves, or the occasional guy who just has a bad lift and hurts himself. Oddly enough, every time I've hurt myself it's been at sub maximal loads, but that's not the point. I guess his point is that there are risks with lifting heavy. And to which I have a two part reply: 1. In other news, water is wet 2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak But YMMV of course, and not everyone shares the same priorities I do. He leads off with the question "why I don't max out?" and repeats it in his response...so I assume he was talking about himself. Unless you are calling him a moron?
*cough-cough* Someone with a cognizant and cohesive argument like his should never be called a moran. *cough-cough*
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:09:20 PM EST
[#25]
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He leads off with the question "why I don't max out?" and repeats it in his response...so I assume he was talking about himself. Unless you are calling him a moron?
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He's talking about morons without a good program who go attempt a max way over their ability and hurt themselves, or the occasional guy who just has a bad lift and hurts himself. Oddly enough, every time I've hurt myself it's been at sub maximal loads, but that's not the point. I guess his point is that there are risks with lifting heavy. And to which I have a two part reply: 1. In other news, water is wet 2. I'd rather get injured being awesome than uninjured and weak But YMMV of course, and not everyone shares the same priorities I do. He leads off with the question "why I don't max out?" and repeats it in his response...so I assume he was talking about himself. Unless you are calling him a moron?
I was just speaking in generalities as to why someone may choose to not max out. 
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:10:16 PM EST
[#26]
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Strength is under rated, muscles are over rated. Everyone has seen the guys at the gym that work their arms/chest for 6 hours straight and have a disproportionate upper body that sometimes makes their legs look tiny (dont skip leg day!) or the people that are in the gym all the time yet don't really get any utility strength from all their working out. When I deployed to Kosovo, we had 2 guys that looked like they could lift a car over their heads; one was somewhere around the size of that huge dude in Heartbreak Ridge. Being in a mountain division (1st Gebirgs; Bundeswehr) we readily trained on the Austrian border with full kit mountain hikes, bypasses, ambushes, etc. I'll let you guess who was always bringing up the DISTANT rear and who was always out of breathe let alone had the smallest body weight to pack weight ratio yet had the hardest time with it. I can bench my body weight of 185 a few times in repetition. That's all I need as far as benching. To me endurance and lower body strength are more important. Right now I do upper body weights on Day 1 as well as 1x cardio, Cardio x1 plus 4 mile ruck with 65lbs @ 4mph pace, Day 2 (1 being running), Day 3 Leg Day, Day 4 Cardio x2 , Day 5 upper body weights plus 4 mile ruck with 65lbs @ 4mph pace, Day 6 Cardio x2, Day 7 Rest. I'll toss in an additional rest day as I go as sometimes I can sense I am going to end up injury something over over doing it; which is very important to do. Other than that, I am much much more rounded than the guys at the gym that can bench 700lbs. I've done a fair amount of mountain warfare training. The BEST thing I ever did to prepare for that was deadlifts and squats. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:17:23 PM EST
[#27]
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I've done a fair amount of mountain warfare training. The BEST thing I ever did to prepare for that was deadlifts and squats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Strength is under rated, muscles are over rated. Everyone has seen the guys at the gym that work their arms/chest for 6 hours straight and have a disproportionate upper body that sometimes makes their legs look tiny (dont skip leg day!) or the people that are in the gym all the time yet don't really get any utility strength from all their working out. When I deployed to Kosovo, we had 2 guys that looked like they could lift a car over their heads; one was somewhere around the size of that huge dude in Heartbreak Ridge. Being in a mountain division (1st Gebirgs; Bundeswehr) we readily trained on the Austrian border with full kit mountain hikes, bypasses, ambushes, etc. I'll let you guess who was always bringing up the DISTANT rear and who was always out of breathe let alone had the smallest body weight to pack weight ratio yet had the hardest time with it. I can bench my body weight of 185 a few times in repetition. That's all I need as far as benching. To me endurance and lower body strength are more important. Right now I do upper body weights on Day 1 as well as 1x cardio, Cardio x1 plus 4 mile ruck with 65lbs @ 4mph pace, Day 2 (1 being running), Day 3 Leg Day, Day 4 Cardio x2 , Day 5 upper body weights plus 4 mile ruck with 65lbs @ 4mph pace, Day 6 Cardio x2, Day 7 Rest. I'll toss in an additional rest day as I go as sometimes I can sense I am going to end up injury something over over doing it; which is very important to do. Other than that, I am much much more rounded than the guys at the gym that can bench 700lbs. I've done a fair amount of mountain warfare training. The BEST thing I ever did to prepare for that was deadlifts and squats. Couldn't agree more. I'm getting to the point with squats where I need a power rack at home because I don't trust myself to not die lol Most people think as a mountaineer that we are climbing mountain peaks barehanded with 100lbs on our backs. Not really. And you use your legs/core 100% of the time whereas how much you can bench pretty much comes into play next to never. When i was in Mittenwald, some of the quickest guys I ever saw were guys that had a very average upper body strength yet were hardcore roadbike cyclists. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:19:47 PM EST
[#28]
RoG, I believe you've been an advocate of CF training.
I posted a few pages back about "Linda". Curious if you've ever tried it. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:19:52 PM EST
[#29]
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In sets. Is there a difference? Of course there is. But according to the poster above I shouldn't have been able to do it because I "don't have functional strength" since barbell movements don't translate to anything else apparently. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You did 180 pushups and 95 pullups consecutively or in multiple sets? Huge difference. In sets. Is there a difference? Of course there is. But according to the poster above I shouldn't have been able to do it because I "don't have functional strength" since barbell movements don't translate to anything else apparently. Because some of our reading impaired members have called me out over IM on being able to do 180 pushups I am now reiterating that they were not consecutive, but done in sets over a 20 min period while broken up with 270 squats and 95 pullups. 
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:20:57 PM EST
[#30]
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In sets. Is there a difference? Of course there is. But according to the poster above I shouldn't have been able to do it because I "don't have functional strength" since barbell movements don't translate to anything else apparently. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You did 180 pushups and 95 pullups consecutively or in multiple sets? Huge difference. In sets. Is there a difference? Of course there is. But according to the poster above I shouldn't have been able to do it because I "don't have functional strength" since barbell movements don't translate to anything else apparently. Sets. We re talking about sets. Seriously? Ever hear someone brag about benching 400 then being like I did 4 reps of 100... lame. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:24:23 PM EST
[#31]
Did not read the thread, just came to say that bench is for high school kids, the squat is the only true measure of the man.
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:24:58 PM EST
[#32]
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RoG, I believe you've been an advocate of CF training. I posted a few pages back about "Linda". Curious if you've ever tried it. Thoughts? I wouldn't say I'm an advocate, but I think it's great depending on goals and depending on the trainer. I've done LInda, though it's been years. I don't remember my time. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:26:23 PM EST
[#33]
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Head trainer at my gym did 19 in the combine Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A real measure of strength as used by the NFL is how many time one can do 225 Head trainer at my gym did 19 in the combine The college combine was 135 for reps. dont remember what I did but my 1rm in college was 405. Now 315 which translates into 225 about 10-13 reps. Big benchers are usually better overhead and anything shoulder related. Assuming they do the other lifts as well and not just bro curls |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:27:44 PM EST
[#34]
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I wouldn't say I'm an advocate, but I think it's great depending on goals and depending on the trainer. I've done LInda, though it's been years. I don't remember my time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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RoG, I believe you've been an advocate of CF training. I posted a few pages back about "Linda". Curious if you've ever tried it. Thoughts? I wouldn't say I'm an advocate, but I think it's great depending on goals and depending on the trainer. I've done LInda, though it's been years. I don't remember my time. Agreed, depends on goals. But as far as someone who wants a balance of strength endurance it's an excellent bench mark. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:29:00 PM EST
[#35]
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Sets. We re talking about sets. Seriously? Ever hear someone brag about benching 400 then being like I did 4 reps of 100... lame. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You did 180 pushups and 95 pullups consecutively or in multiple sets? Huge difference. In sets. Is there a difference? Of course there is. But according to the poster above I shouldn't have been able to do it because I "don't have functional strength" since barbell movements don't translate to anything else apparently. Sets. We re talking about sets. Seriously? Ever hear someone brag about benching 400 then being like I did 4 reps of 100... lame. Yeah, because that's even remotely the same right?
The point is that 180 pushups in a short amount of time is a lot no matter how you look at it. Your (ridiculous) assertion is that I don't have functional strength because I focus on lifting. Let me tell you something- I have a picture of myself on the highest peak in conus, and 3 trips to mountain warfare training, high PFT and CFT scores, and various other things like that (plus a 308# clean, 427# squat, and 240# snatch at 188# bodyweight) that show you're wrong. "game on" to use your own statement in the IM you sent me. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:32:34 PM EST
[#36]
These seem relevant and don't detract any more from the discussion than several of the other posts...
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Posted: 9/10/2015 5:38:20 PM EST
[#37]
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Well you must be benching wrong. I've popped the soles loose on my shoes benching! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bench is one of the most overrated exercises unless you play football. Any exercise that doesn't involve your feet firmly planted on the ground is not functional. Functional strength comes from the ground. Well you must be benching wrong. I've popped the soles loose on my shoes benching! Obviously he doesn't use dat hip thrust when he benches. Doesn't even lift, bro. 
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Posted: 9/10/2015 6:48:43 PM EST
[#38]
amazing this thread is still going. or maybe it isn't--i don't know.
in any situation, being able to lift more weight is never bad. this should not be controversial. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 6:56:20 PM EST
[#39]
I dropped bench for endurance training to better survive the great world wide collapse as predicted in a recent thread.
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Posted: 9/10/2015 6:59:10 PM EST
[#40]
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I think a better indicator of "overall strength" than just a heavy BP is a workout called "Linda". It measures both strength and endurance. there is 10 sets of 3 movements. The set-rep count goes like this: 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 The 3 movements are: Deadlift 1 1/2 x bodyweight Bench 1 x bodyweight Clean 3/4 x bodyweight Its an ass kicker. Oh I like this. It might take me a month or two to get to be able to do this as intended but I'm going to give it a shot. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 6:59:24 PM EST
[#41]
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I dropped bench for endurance training to better survive the great world wide collapse as predicted in a recent thread. Don't forget about your all important grip strength. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:06:22 PM EST
[#42]
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No, I have my Elieko bar in the corner and heckle all the CFers doing conditioning work 
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Quoted:Ok you are right. I was wrong to say they are worthless just because I don't care for them. I may try and incorporate them into my routine again and see how I respond. Hey man, I'm just a middle age guy with primarily an endurance (cycling/triathlon/running) background who never did much lifting after high school, except for when I was deployed. I only lift 2x/week for 45 minutes or so, but I consider those two days the cornerstone of my fitness program. Go-to guys for strength advice are Rolando (even though he's a dirty inky crossfitter) and Darktide. There are others, but those two stand out in my mind. I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I can hardly call myself a CFer anymore. The rest is pretty much true though Excommunicated for disdain of toe shoes? No, I have my Elieko bar in the corner and heckle all the CFers doing conditioning work
WHAT the fuck yo. I saw those in my Facebook newsfeed the other day. $1400 for a deadlift bar? Bro, do you even retard? |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:08:02 PM EST
[#43]
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It's a common myth that is constantly perpetuated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I helped a co-worker move some furniture to her new apartment years ago. I'm a fairly thin guy, I don't work out at gyms but I do some outdoor work that city guys never do. She brought along a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym. He was constantly having to take breaks, he'd stop and have problems carrying things on steps. It clearly wasn't doing him any real world good. My girlfriend calls me "farm boy strong". Then his programming sucks and it has nothing to do with "farm boy strong" vs. "gym strong"....or his programming is geared for pure strength with no endurance due to HIS goals. You took that farm boy strong thing way too seriously. It's a common myth that is constantly perpetuated. Serious business! |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:13:19 PM EST
[#44]
I'll say this for what's it's worth.
I've competed in about 6 shows. I've prepared for numerous ones that I didn't compete in because I couldn't make the weight or couldn't bench the weight I wanted. Benching (at least for competition) is all about technique. It's very disciplined in terms of lifting. All weights must be paused on the chest, and will be lifted upon command. Finally, the weight will be racked upon command. It's very technical and there are 100 things that can disqualify a lift. Ask me how I know I missed a national record for my weight class because I raised my back off of the bench too much during the lift and on the second attempt, I talked myself right out of that motherfucker.
When I say it's all about technique, I really mean it. Once you have the technique down pat, and you learn the proper mechanics, bigger weight is easier to come by. And BY the way...... Being able to bench a boat has nothing on old man strength. Some old guys on my team were freaky strong, and really didn't show it. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:14:42 PM EST
[#45]
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Sets. We re talking about sets. Seriously? Ever hear someone brag about benching 400 then being like I did 4 reps of 100... lame. Lame huh? Do you even Murph Bro? |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:27:52 PM EST
[#46]
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I think the deadlift is the single best gauge of overall strength. Followed by the squat and then the bench press. Pull-ups and overhead press round out the movements that I would be concerned with. I repped out all of these last week: 325 x 7 deadlift 280 x 4 squat 225 x 5 bench press 3 x 8 pull-ups 145 x 5 overhead press That's after starting in January (with 5x5) from bare-bones to help me lose 50 pounds. I can't quantify it, but getting stronger in general has definitely helped out with my house- and yard-work. Plus, I look and feel much better. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:29:35 PM EST
[#47]
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In my younger days, when I still was at work, my standard was 100lbs over body weight or 275 for a max or a bit more. Used to work out with 240 for reps of 6. It was important that gripping and general upper strength were high. My run times were also important as was general flexiablity. The advantage that I had, when not deployed, was that I could do PT twice a day and had world class facitites to work out in, at least in CONUS. The bottom line is that I always put agility above pure strength but there are times when pure upper body strength is very important. aren't you talking about the difference between strength and stamina? |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:30:12 PM EST
[#48]
Haven't read thread. Let me guess, everyone here benches 300?
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:34:47 PM EST
[#49]
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WHAT the fuck yo. I saw those in my Facebook newsfeed the other day. $1400 for a deadlift bar? Bro, do you even retard? I have the training oly bar. Different than the power bar. $900 and spins for DAYS I bet most guys spend more on guns and don't use their guns as much as I use my bar
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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:35:02 PM EST
[#50]
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Haven't read thread. Let me guess, everyone here benches 300? So far, benching heavy is useless, benching heavy is awesome, benching for reps is useless, benching for reps is awesome, and surprisingly few votes for pie. There was some talk about farm boys though. 
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