User Panel
Quoted:
If the 5.7x28 AE failures are so wide spread, I wonder why Federal isn't doing something about it.... Are people not contacting Federal? It seems Federal could have thousands of complaints if everyone that had a problem contacted them. I want to buy about 500rds of the stuff to try out in my PS90 since there are many people that have zero problems with the stuff, then there are people that make it seem like I'll be dead on the floor of the range if I use it or at the very least I'll have over half of the rounds set back into the case. What are the variables in the PS90 where some people have nothing but issues while others have no problems at all. I've used tons of American Eagle ammo in other calibers and there's never been inconsistent quality from one batch to the next. Is there a simple crimper a non-reloader could use on these rounds? View Quote Fiocchi also manufactures FN SS197 (Blue Tip) Both of the aforementioned loads use brass supplied by FN. FN does manufacture ammo for the 5.7X28, all of which is imported. |
|
Quoted:
Federal doesn't manufacture 5.7x28. The ammo they sell with their name on it is manufactured by Fiocchi in Ozark, MO Fiocchi also manufactures FN SS197 (Blue Tip) Both of the aforementioned loads use brass supplied by FN. FN does manufacture ammo for the 5.7X28, all of which is imported. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Other way. A loose floppy piece of soft armor is much harder to penatrate. Picture a piece of paper. One backed by clay, the other hanging free. Now poke your finger through them both and see what happens. View Quote Kevlar works by being elastic enough to spread spread the force of the impact over a much larger area. When it is unable to deform backwards into a semi-solid medium it is less able to spread out the force and bullets punch through. Taking your paper example: tack a piece of paper in a window frame, chuck a small rock at it, and the rock will go right through. Allow the paper to just hang so it can move with the impact and it will distribute the force. I might be wrong, but I would love to see some documentation. |
|
Quoted:
Could you provide some source material to back up this claim? Everything I can find that is academic discusses the use of the backing material to test back face deformation. Kevlar works by being elastic enough to spread spread the force of the impact over a much larger area. When it is unable to deform backwards into a semi-solid medium it is less able to spread out the force and bullets punch through. Taking your paper example: tack a piece of paper in a window frame, chuck a small rock at it, and the rock will go right through. Allow the paper to just hang so it can move with the impact and it will distribute the force. I might be wrong, but I would love to see some documentation. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Other way. A loose floppy piece of soft armor is much harder to penatrate. Picture a piece of paper. One backed by clay, the other hanging free. Now poke your finger through them both and see what happens. Kevlar works by being elastic enough to spread spread the force of the impact over a much larger area. When it is unable to deform backwards into a semi-solid medium it is less able to spread out the force and bullets punch through. Taking your paper example: tack a piece of paper in a window frame, chuck a small rock at it, and the rock will go right through. Allow the paper to just hang so it can move with the impact and it will distribute the force. I might be wrong, but I would love to see some documentation. Your example reinforces mine though. The floppier the armor, the more it distributes the energy and the harder it is to penatrate. Yes, clay is used to measure BFD but it also replicates a person in a repeatable fashion. Not that clay replicates a torso. It's just a measurable media. |
|
Quoted:
Could you provide some source material to back up this claim? Everything I can find that is academic discusses the use of the backing material to test back face deformation. Kevlar works by being elastic enough to spread spread the force of the impact over a much larger area. When it is unable to deform backwards into a semi-solid medium it is less able to spread out the force and bullets punch through. Taking your paper example: tack a piece of paper in a window frame, chuck a small rock at it, and the rock will go right through. Allow the paper to just hang so it can move with the impact and it will distribute the force. I might be wrong, but I would love to see some documentation. View Quote A Level IIIA is so damn stiff to begin with (read that as uncomfortable as hell) On some of the "boutique" vests like the Second Chance Monarch that are super flexible (for a vest) it MIGHT make a small difference |
|
I keep waiting for someone to build a micro bolt action in 5.7.
Something like a Ruger American Rimfire would make a great kids varmint/learning rifle. I'd love a PS90 to for a "what's spooking the chickens" gun. |
|
Quoted:
I'm quite sure that FN, Federal, and Fiocchi are aware of the issues surrounding the 5.7x28 rounds produced by Fiocchi. There have been simply too many problems widely reported on both FN SS197 & Federal AE. What concerns me the most is someone loading up SS197 thinking they have a good defense round and then gets into harms way with bad ammo. Don't get me wrong, I use both FIOCCHI rounds for practice and malfunction drills but if I leave the house my FiveseveN is stoked with one of the following.....FN SS198LF, Elite S4M, or Elite T6B. The Fiocchi ammo is so bad I purchased a Sheridan Engineering Cutaway cartridge gauge to check every round I purchase... PICTURED BELOW A FN SS198LF IN THE CUTAWAY GUAGE https://i.imgur.com/IzFf212.jpg View Quote |
|
I wonder if using a Lee Factory 5.7x28 crimp die on the AE ammo would work since they're only glued in. Think that might help with bullet separation?
|
|
Quoted:
I keep waiting for someone to build a micro bolt action in 5.7. Something like a Ruger American Rimfire would make a great kids varmint/learning rifle. I'd love a PS90 to for a "what's spooking the chickens" gun. View Quote http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/22/savage-bolt-action-chambered-in-fn-5-7x28mm/ |
|
Quoted:
I keep waiting for someone to build a micro bolt action in 5.7. Something like a Ruger American Rimfire would make a great kids varmint/learning rifle. I'd love a PS90 to for a "what's spooking the chickens" gun. View Quote |
|
|
Quoted:
I don't know if this ever actually sold, but it looks like a bolt action 5.7 was planned. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/22/savage-bolt-action-chambered-in-fn-5-7x28mm/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep waiting for someone to build a micro bolt action in 5.7. Something like a Ruger American Rimfire would make a great kids varmint/learning rifle. I'd love a PS90 to for a "what's spooking the chickens" gun. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/22/savage-bolt-action-chambered-in-fn-5-7x28mm/ http://armscor.com/firearms/rifle-series/m22-tcm-ba/ |
|
I have nothing against the .22 TCM, I was following the cartridge back when it was called the .22 Micro-Mag.
I just feel the 5.7x28 is quite a bit better. |
|
Quoted:
View Quote No reports of any failure to fire. I don't think FN would use a primer that's going to fail on ammo marketed specifically to Law Enforcement as some Departments will have it in use for YEARS! |
|
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure the shelf life issue is overblown. Several members on FNForums.net have OLD lead free primer 5.7 ammo and periodically test fire it. No reports of any failure to fire. I don't think FN would use a primer that's going to fail on ammo marketed specifically to Law Enforcement as some Departments will have it in use for YEARS! View Quote |
|
|
Quoted:
I apologize for bringing up 22TCM again in this thread but there is a 22TCM micro bolt action out there now which accomplishes approximately what you seek: http://armscor.com/firearms/rifle-series/m22-tcm-ba/ http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2015/02/rock_island_armory_armscor_22_tcm_F.jpg View Quote |
|
|
Quoted:
Does this count as a small varmint? https://i.imgur.com/iTYiC3S.jpg Or this.... https://i.imgur.com/JPxcZZW.jpg View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I'll be honest. I don't have any. I've just always been told that. That's why you don't test soft armor on a hard surface. Your example reinforces mine though. The floppier the armor, the more it distributes the energy and the harder it is to penatrate. Yes, clay is used to measure BFD but it also replicates a person in a repeatable fashion. Not that clay replicates a torso. It's just a measurable media. View Quote |
|
So is the AE and Fiocchi FN ammunition not reliable and good ammunition? Because with folks in this thread talking about how affordable 5.7 ammunition is now available I have seriously been thinking of grabbing a PS90. The price of ammo and the difficulty to reload were my primary reasons not to buy this as a fun gun. I
|
|
Quoted:
So is the AE and Fiocchi FN ammunition not reliable and good ammunition? Because with folks in this thread talking about how affordable 5.7 ammunition is now available I have seriously been thinking of grabbing a PS90. The price of ammo and the difficulty to reload were my primary reasons not to buy this as a fun gun. I View Quote Jay Wolf posted a video of him breaking down SS197 and there was a 10% variance in powder charges out of a 50 round box. That's quite a bit in a tiny case. Personally I've fired several thousand rounds of both SS197 & Federal AE, out of that I've had four rounds of SS197 that was too light to cycle the action my PS90. I've had one round of AE that bent and jammed the P90. On using all other rounds (which includes several thousand of SS198LF) ZERO problems. And don't let people tell you that 5.7x28 can't be reloaded, it can, it's just you have to follow several well developed procedures and be CAREFUL! |
|
Quoted:
Federal doesn't manufacture 5.7x28. The ammo they sell with their name on it is manufactured by Fiocchi in Ozark, MO Fiocchi also manufactures FN SS197 (Blue Tip) Both of the aforementioned loads use brass supplied by FN. FN does manufacture ammo for the 5.7X28, all of which is imported. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
If the 5.7x28 AE failures are so wide spread, I wonder why Federal isn't doing something about it.... Are people not contacting Federal? It seems Federal could have thousands of complaints if everyone that had a problem contacted them. I want to buy about 500rds of the stuff to try out in my PS90 since there are many people that have zero problems with the stuff, then there are people that make it seem like I'll be dead on the floor of the range if I use it or at the very least I'll have over half of the rounds set back into the case. What are the variables in the PS90 where some people have nothing but issues while others have no problems at all. I've used tons of American Eagle ammo in other calibers and there's never been inconsistent quality from one batch to the next. Is there a simple crimper a non-reloader could use on these rounds? Fiocchi also manufactures FN SS197 (Blue Tip) Both of the aforementioned loads use brass supplied by FN. FN does manufacture ammo for the 5.7X28, all of which is imported. |
|
If you look at 5.7x28 as a more powerful 22LR or WMR that feeds better and has reliable ignition than you can't go wrong.
|
|
Quoted:
Tested the 22tcm and 5.7 against some steel a while back. Also included some chrono numbers. Here....... View Quote |
|
Well I bought a 5.7x28 Lee Factory Crimp die and shell holder so I'll see if that helps with the AE ammo separation.
|
|
What is a good kydex holster for the Five Seven?
Eta: I couldnt find one when I needed it so as a holdover I purchased a cheapie universal holder. It definitely works fine but it is too bulky and obviously too cheap for what I would prefer. eta 2: how do I know what model it is? It has fixed sites with gray controls. |
|
Quoted:
It's NOT a MK II, they aren't available with fixed sights or gray controls... FiveseveN DAO (Double Action Only) Discontinued... https://i.imgur.com/Ykv9qIi.jpg FiveseveN IOM (Individual Officers Model) Discontinued... https://i.imgur.com/alfjCmw.jpg FiveseveN USG Discontinued... https://i.imgur.com/4YnoEeN.jpg so it is probably the USG? FiveseveN MK II... https://i.imgur.com/34D6bf7.jpg View Quote |
|
Unless you have the strange looking trigger guard, I'd guess USG.
|
|
|
Love my PS90. great home defense weapon. Very easy to maneuver and I am confident in the round's ability to do the job. I think the biggest reason more agencies don't use them is expense of the weapons and ammo.
This is one of the weapons we keep close by. It's my wife's "go to" weapon. If I could only chose one weapon to disappear on foot with, it might be this one, especially since I can carry a lot of ammo. |
|
I've had bad luck with the american eagle stuff, but the blue tip fiocchi works great in mine. I've had zero malfunctions with it, but lots of problems with the AE.
|
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
I've had bad luck with the american eagle stuff, but the blue tip fiocchi works great in mine. I've had zero malfunctions with it, but lots of problems with the AE. View Quote American Eagle works just sort of anemic. Just practice stuff. |
|
Found the AR57 lower, NIB, first version. Doesn't seem quite so heavy now, after not looking at it for years. Actually pretty nice.
I think I may re-profile the barrel to more of an AR pencil, wonder what that would do for the weight, haven't calculated it. Also, a lot of the zillions of those rail mount steppy things can be machined off to make it look more like the new version. |
|
|
|
Btw - you guys are all dicks because you are basically
|
|
|
I'm seriously considering buying some ammo while it's cheap for the PS90 I might someday own...
|
|
|
|
|
Looking at the AR57 upper more, I wonder how an AR57 pistol with a Bushmaster carbon fiber lower would work out?
Weight wise... 12" w/ late model EOTech sight? Barrel length is 18" with a 2" flash hider on the original. So, that means with the hider off, the barrel is about 16.5" long -I think... Next step is to make a barrel vise/clamp when we go back down and remove the hider, measure, maybe find a lightweight hider, remove the barrel and take a rough lightening cut, or rethread the barrel for a pinned/TIG'ed flash hider. Suggestions appreciated, what would you like to have done? Barrel profile suggestions? |
|
Quoted:
Looking at the AR57 upper more, I wonder how an AR57 pistol with a Bushmaster carbon fiber lower would work out? Weight wise... 12" w/ late model EOTech sight? Barrel length is 18" with a 2" flash hider on the original. So, that means with the hider off, the barrel is about 16.5" long -I think... Next step is to make a barrel vise/clamp when we go back down and remove the hider, measure, maybe find a lightweight hider, remove the barrel and take a rough lightening cut, or rethread the barrel for a pinned/TIG'ed flash hider. Suggestions appreciated, what would you like to have done? Barrel profile suggestions? View Quote Well over 1k rounds through this setup with no hiccups. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.