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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:48:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Those are the numbers for Carbon, CO2 is a much smaller number than that. Edit: nevermind, carbon numbers appear to be much lower as well. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:49:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are going off of the biblical text, why even invoke the unmoved mover argument? If you say the bible is the source of truth, you don't need outside "proofs" to justify your belief. OK, so the bible is correct and the source of truth. God is eternal and he created the universe according to Genesis. If the bible gives me rules on how to govern slaves, is slavery allowable today? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Based off the same biblical text that specified how the universe was created. OK, so the bible is correct and the source of truth. God is eternal and he created the universe according to Genesis. If the bible gives me rules on how to govern slaves, is slavery allowable today? Ahh yes… the tried and true Bible slavery argument. Context matters, there was a thing called indentured servitude at the time. Where a man could respectfully pay off his debts by entering into a contract with their debtor. The Bible is not referring to actual slavery, but indentured servitude. The only ones who try to blur these lines are 14 year old atheists. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:51:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide When you get your degree from Google, it’s difficult to mix up carbon and carbon dioxide. ?? |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:52:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm arguing it's been observed to be infinite. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do you mean by, there is NOT a beginning to that which makes it up? You are arguing that matter if infinite? I'm arguing it's been observed to be infinite. Source? |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:52:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I mean, there was nothing...and then that uh...that uh...exploded and made stuff. Yeah, totally more believable than God. Totally, guys.  Yeah you're right, some sky wizard is far more likely. Just keep believing! |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:52:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are the numbers for Carbon, CO2 is a much smaller number than that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Those are the numbers for Carbon, CO2 is a much smaller number than that. So, have any of y'all seen any carbon lately? How do you know it is there? I mean, without equipment? |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:53:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you get your degree from Google, it’s difficult to mix up carbon and carbon dioxide. ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide When you get your degree from Google, it’s difficult to mix up carbon and carbon dioxide. ?? So how much of the earth do you propose is carbon? |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:54:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are the numbers for Carbon, CO2 is a much smaller number than that. Edit: nevermind, carbon numbers appear to be much lower as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Those are the numbers for Carbon, CO2 is a much smaller number than that. Edit: nevermind, carbon numbers appear to be much lower as well. I’ll help you.. Carbon-12 |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:55:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think God needs any of those things, it could simply be a form he settled on so his creatures could interact with the physical world. Your argument seems to be that if god chooses to take on a physical form, and that form is human, that disproves god exists. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If something is infinite, then it does not come from anything. Infinite set theory isn't terrible complex to understand. The issue is that the universe cannot be infinite. It's metaphysically impossible in my opinion. Furthermore, the majority of scientist agree with me. The universe is finite. That said, there is nothing illogical about something existing beyond time and space. In fact, I believe it's more probable that a being can be infinite and exist beyond time and space, than the universe springs into existence, uncaused, from nothing. But not only does it spring into existence, uncaused, from nothing, but it's also so finely tuned it has the exact physical properties to allow for life permitting planets. But not only is it so finely tuned for life permitting planets, it also has a built in mechanism in which organisms can evolve. In fact, they can evolve so much, that those organisms can develop consciousness. And at the end, you have atoms, that have evolved so much, that they can reflect on themselves. The universe isn't tuned for planets, or life, or consciousness. All of those came to exist based on gravity, the structure of matter, and billions of years of those gravity and matter interacting to form ever increasing complexity. Planets and life and consciousness are finely tuned based on the physical parameters of the universe. In time, all eventualities that are possible become inevitable. And while the universe we live in may be finite, that doesn't mean it's the only universe that exists or has existed or will exist. We are just unable to grasp the proper scale to comprehend those possibilities. Missed a few. ratio of the electromagnetic force ratio of the density of dark energy the number of spacial dimensions abundance of carbon If man was made in god's own image, and god lives outside space and time, why does god need arms and legs and a body at all? If god is infinite and doesn't exist of matter (which decays), what's the body for? If god can hear silent prayers and see all deeds regardless of distance or time, why does god need eyes? If god is omnipotent, why create lesser creatures like angels and humans to preside over? Omnipotence doesn't allow emotion or boredom or ambition. Those are all human traits. I don't think God needs any of those things, it could simply be a form he settled on so his creatures could interact with the physical world. Your argument seems to be that if god chooses to take on a physical form, and that form is human, that disproves god exists. As expected you just avoided the actual questions. The bible says god made man in his own image. Not that god decided to take on a form that would suit living on earth, and then created man in that image. And you glaringly had no response for the "why create anything at all, if god is omnipotent?" question. There's just simply no purpose for creation by a truly infinite and omnipotent being. That's anthropomorphic at an extreme level. Only an egocentric human could believe that a divine being would have the desire or purpose to create anything at all, and then proceed to get angry and punish the lessor beings created. That's an emotional response, which wouldn't exist in a being who lacks a body with neurotransmitters, hormones, and social attachments which create emotion. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:56:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you get your degree from Google, it’s difficult to mix up carbon and carbon dioxide. ?? I just know it's one of the most abundant, using a percentage isn't critical in this analysis when hydrogen and helium make up almost all matter. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:56:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Source? Every single physics experiment ever conducted? |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:57:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So how much of the earth do you propose is carbon? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide When you get your degree from Google, it’s difficult to mix up carbon and carbon dioxide. ?? So how much of the earth do you propose is carbon? Probably 1.8 billion tons |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:57:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As expected you just avoided the actual questions. The bible says god made man in his own image. Not that god decided to take on a form that would suit living on earth, and then created man in that image. And you glaringly had no response for the "why create anything at all, if god is omnipotent?" question. There's just simply no purpose for creation by a truly infinite and omnipotent being. That's anthropomorphic at an extreme level. Only an egocentric human could believe that a divine being would have the desire or purpose to create anything at all, and then proceed to get angry and punish the lessor beings created. That's an emotional response, which wouldn't exist in a being who lacks a body with neurotransmitters, hormones, and social attachments which create emotion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If something is infinite, then it does not come from anything. Infinite set theory isn't terrible complex to understand. The issue is that the universe cannot be infinite. It's metaphysically impossible in my opinion. Furthermore, the majority of scientist agree with me. The universe is finite. That said, there is nothing illogical about something existing beyond time and space. In fact, I believe it's more probable that a being can be infinite and exist beyond time and space, than the universe springs into existence, uncaused, from nothing. But not only does it spring into existence, uncaused, from nothing, but it's also so finely tuned it has the exact physical properties to allow for life permitting planets. But not only is it so finely tuned for life permitting planets, it also has a built in mechanism in which organisms can evolve. In fact, they can evolve so much, that those organisms can develop consciousness. And at the end, you have atoms, that have evolved so much, that they can reflect on themselves. The universe isn't tuned for planets, or life, or consciousness. All of those came to exist based on gravity, the structure of matter, and billions of years of those gravity and matter interacting to form ever increasing complexity. Planets and life and consciousness are finely tuned based on the physical parameters of the universe. In time, all eventualities that are possible become inevitable. And while the universe we live in may be finite, that doesn't mean it's the only universe that exists or has existed or will exist. We are just unable to grasp the proper scale to comprehend those possibilities. Missed a few. ratio of the electromagnetic force ratio of the density of dark energy the number of spacial dimensions abundance of carbon If man was made in god's own image, and god lives outside space and time, why does god need arms and legs and a body at all? If god is infinite and doesn't exist of matter (which decays), what's the body for? If god can hear silent prayers and see all deeds regardless of distance or time, why does god need eyes? If god is omnipotent, why create lesser creatures like angels and humans to preside over? Omnipotence doesn't allow emotion or boredom or ambition. Those are all human traits. I don't think God needs any of those things, it could simply be a form he settled on so his creatures could interact with the physical world. Your argument seems to be that if god chooses to take on a physical form, and that form is human, that disproves god exists. As expected you just avoided the actual questions. The bible says god made man in his own image. Not that god decided to take on a form that would suit living on earth, and then created man in that image. And you glaringly had no response for the "why create anything at all, if god is omnipotent?" question. There's just simply no purpose for creation by a truly infinite and omnipotent being. That's anthropomorphic at an extreme level. Only an egocentric human could believe that a divine being would have the desire or purpose to create anything at all, and then proceed to get angry and punish the lessor beings created. That's an emotional response, which wouldn't exist in a being who lacks a body with neurotransmitters, hormones, and social attachments which create emotion. Go on.... |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:57:59 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll help you.. Carbon-12 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Those are the numbers for Carbon, CO2 is a much smaller number than that. Edit: nevermind, carbon numbers appear to be much lower as well. I’ll help you.. Carbon-12 Nobody is asking what the most common carbon isotope is. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 12:59:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably 1.8 billion tons Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carbon makes up less than 5% of the universe and less than 1% of the earth. Carbon Not Carbon dioxide When you get your degree from Google, it’s difficult to mix up carbon and carbon dioxide. ?? So how much of the earth do you propose is carbon? Probably 1.8 billion tons So we are in agreement that it makes up a very small percentage of earths mass? However it’s higher than that, you missed a bit of a detail in your “research” |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:00:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody is asking what the most common carbon isotope is. And carbon, a basic element, isn't even necessary for the universe to exist. It's a theorized link between organic and non-organic matter. (Life) |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:04:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably 1.8 billion tons  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:06:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ahh yes the tried and true Bible slavery argument. Context matters, there was a thing called indentured servitude at the time. Where a man could respectfully pay off his debts by entering into a contract with their debtor. The Bible is not referring to actual slavery, but indentured servitude. The only ones who try to blur these lines are 14 year old atheists. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. That doesn't sound much like "man could respectfully pay off his debts by entering into a contract with their debtor". Sounds like sex slaves to me. Is that OK today? |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:07:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Accuses people of getting a Google degree and then uses the first result to reply incorrectly LOL https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81153/Screenshot_20210929-010318_DuckDuckGo_jp-2110323.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably 1.8 billion tons https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81153/Screenshot_20210929-010318_DuckDuckGo_jp-2110323.JPG And he didn’t bother to read past the first “billion” |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:10:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And he didn't bother to read past the first "billion" 
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:11:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Don’t know where universes come from, but I know where gods come from.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:11:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carbon Not Carbon dioxide Those numbers are for carbon in all its forms. There is something like 4.6 x 10^13 kg of carbon in the earth. Compared to a mass of 6 x 10^23 kg that puts carbon at about 0.00000077 %. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:15:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And he didn’t bother to read past the first “billion” Fixating on the percentage of carbon is irrelevant to the question. It's "abundance' is relative, clearly. All elements are are rare except for a select few in respect to the total amount. The earth is not a representation of the universe, or any other body of mass. Neither is consideration of any amount of a specific element relevant to the question asked. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:20:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just said that there could have been something before the Bing Bang. Everything we know about the universe goes against that assertion. It's widely accepted that the universe sprang into existence and a tremendous amount of energy was released about 13.8 billion years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Feel free to point me towards it, but I hope you are not referring to the cosmic soup. Again, before the Big Bang, there is nothing. As in, not anything. That is accepted by most of scientist. That is why atheists have hung their hopes on cosmic crunch theory in order to erase a finite universe. You just said that there could have been something before the Bing Bang. Everything we know about the universe goes against that assertion. It's widely accepted that the universe sprang into existence and a tremendous amount of energy was released about 13.8 billion years ago. Answer this, if God created all this why is it that He came down and told us the way to heaven only 2,000 years ago? Was he sitting around staring at his iPhone and one day was like, "Oh shit I've been sending these monkeys to Hell for 98,000 years...hey Jesus get down there and tell them what to do!" Why hasn't he came back to tell the rest of us? If some guy came out the clouds and said, "Hey Wolverine1776 I made you come with me and I'll give you eternal life". I'd agree, and he supposedly created me knowing that. And yet he hasn't. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:25:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As expected you just avoided the actual questions. The bible says god made man in his own image. Not that god decided to take on a form that would suit living on earth, and then created man in that image. And you glaringly had no response for the "why create anything at all, if god is omnipotent?" question. There's just simply no purpose for creation by a truly infinite and omnipotent being. That's anthropomorphic at an extreme level. Only an egocentric human could believe that a divine being would have the desire or purpose to create anything at all, and then proceed to get angry and punish the lessor beings created. That's an emotional response, which wouldn't exist in a being who lacks a body with neurotransmitters, hormones, and social attachments which create emotion. I misunderstood your original point. This thread is moving fast. I am not a theologian, but this is an argument I’ve heard amongst different Christian sects, particularly Catholics. In Genesis it says “Let us make man in our image. . . . God made man in his likeness.” One side takes it literally, that god made us in his image. The other side, the one in which I would place myself in, is the image of God would represent that real constitution of human being that man has because he is God’s image. Man was created in a state of original righteousness – the original righteousness of God in a sinless condition in the garden. So image would not be a human form, but an image of original righteousness or sinless condition. I was under the impression you were arguing that god could not take on the image of man if he so viewed himself that way. My apologies for misunderstanding. The last part of your question I can only assume that the only thing that could motivate creation would be that it would be for the benefit of the creature – that the creature would now have the incomprehensible privilege of coming to know God, an incommensurable good. What this means, interestingly enough, is that creation as well as salvation is by grace alone. Creation is also solely by grace, just as salvation is solely by grace. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:30:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was something before the Big Bang, that was a blob of matter that suddenly exploded. Maybe that was God creating everything, maybe it was something entirely beyond our comprehension. Answer this, if God created all this why is it that He came down and told us the way to heaven only 2,000 years ago? Was he sitting around staring at his iPhone and one day was like, "Oh shit I've been sending these monkeys to Hell for 98,000 years...hey Jesus get down there and tell them what to do!" Why hasn't he came back to tell the rest of us? If some guy came out the clouds and said, "Hey Wolverine1776 I made you come with me and I'll give you eternal life". I'd agree, and he supposedly created me knowing that. And yet he hasn't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Feel free to point me towards it, but I hope you are not referring to the cosmic soup. Again, before the Big Bang, there is nothing. As in, not anything. That is accepted by most of scientist. That is why atheists have hung their hopes on cosmic crunch theory in order to erase a finite universe. You just said that there could have been something before the Bing Bang. Everything we know about the universe goes against that assertion. It's widely accepted that the universe sprang into existence and a tremendous amount of energy was released about 13.8 billion years ago. Answer this, if God created all this why is it that He came down and told us the way to heaven only 2,000 years ago? Was he sitting around staring at his iPhone and one day was like, "Oh shit I've been sending these monkeys to Hell for 98,000 years...hey Jesus get down there and tell them what to do!" Why hasn't he came back to tell the rest of us? If some guy came out the clouds and said, "Hey Wolverine1776 I made you come with me and I'll give you eternal life". I'd agree, and he supposedly created me knowing that. And yet he hasn't. There are varying views on this. The one I conform to is that Jesus came at the exact time where his message would reach the most people. Had it been 3,000 years earlier, or 1,000, or even 500, it may have faded into obscurity and have been forever forgotten. But… I do like you theory that God was just hanging out on his iPhone playing Snake |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:32:40 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Accuses people of getting a Google degree and then uses the first result to reply incorrectly LOL https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81153/Screenshot_20210929-010318_DuckDuckGo_jp-2110323.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably 1.8 billion tons https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81153/Screenshot_20210929-010318_DuckDuckGo_jp-2110323.JPG It was tongue in cheek. I think it blew right over your head. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 1:41:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll leave you alone because you have a lot of people responding to you in this thread and it's a little lopsided for you. I'll leave with this: Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. That doesn't sound much like "man could respectfully pay off his debts by entering into a contract with their debtor". Sounds like sex slaves to me. Is that OK today? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ahh yes the tried and true Bible slavery argument. Context matters, there was a thing called indentured servitude at the time. Where a man could respectfully pay off his debts by entering into a contract with their debtor. The Bible is not referring to actual slavery, but indentured servitude. The only ones who try to blur these lines are 14 year old atheists. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. That doesn't sound much like "man could respectfully pay off his debts by entering into a contract with their debtor". Sounds like sex slaves to me. Is that OK today? I suggest you do a little research and get the religious perspective on these passages. Here is small snippet that explains it in part. “When we look at the command to kill the male Midianite children, there are two perspectives we might take. One is the more understandably temporal. During the timeframe in question, tribal warfare was rampant. It was highly likely that the male Midianite children would grow up and seek revenge for their fathers and grandfathers against Israel. Avenging the death of one’s father is a commonly accepted necessity in every culture and even in popular fiction—it’s what motivates Hamlet in Shakespeare’s classic play and what energizes Inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride. Further, the utterly disgusting depravity in which these Midianite boys had been raised is well documented. Regular behaviors among the Midianites included child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality. The divine prohibition of these acts was codified, and the acts were known to the Israelites (Leviticus 18:21, 23–24). Male inhabitants carrying on the lineage of this culture would have been a perennial problem for Israel.” |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 2:07:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOutside the ordered universe exists that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes. The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath  The universe was created by Azathoth, as shown above. There are tons of books out there that talk about this. He is an Outer God, and exists outside time and space. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 2:20:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4BqjEHtDicg/XxhWs88fjDI/AAAAAAAAY6o/H3zM_ctV2uc1Ikxv3J0DnGtLb0kSu0DNQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/azathoth_by_jasonengle_ddk9mnm-fullview.jpg The universe was created by Azathoth, as shown above. There are tons of books out there that talk about this. He is an Outer God, and exists outside time and space. Quote HistoryQuoted: Outside the ordered universe exists that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes. The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4BqjEHtDicg/XxhWs88fjDI/AAAAAAAAY6o/H3zM_ctV2uc1Ikxv3J0DnGtLb0kSu0DNQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/azathoth_by_jasonengle_ddk9mnm-fullview.jpg The universe was created by Azathoth, as shown above. There are tons of books out there that talk about this. He is an Outer God, and exists outside time and space. So, which are the gods who enjoy their endeavors that are confined to a realm of time and space? We call them the angels of God, and conversely, the demons of hell and the minions of Satan. The most interesting creatures in the world. A system of the corrupted. Everyone and everything. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 2:37:36 AM EDT
[#31]
The multiverse has always existed. From time to time, one of the gods just breaks the symmetry to get the ball rolling again.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 3:52:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, have any of y'all seen any carbon lately? How do you know it is there? I mean, without equipment? Yeah. 35th anniversary the other day. Carbon was a part of the gifting. I mean, it may not be carbon but that would be a matter of fraud as opposed to the lack of existence of carbon. It's supposed to have been carbon from a company that makes things out of carbon. I can't test it but expect they can and do. So I can't "know" but others could. I can believe it when they say it is. That's like believing the scientists who say they have measured or observed certain things. They probably have the background and equipment to do so. I don't try to wrap myself around some things. Like if the universe is infinite or not. In math a ray is defined as starting from a point and extending infinitely in one direction. If it has an endpoint is it infinite? Half infinite, only infinite going in one direction but finite the other? But only finite if the place you are looking/measuring from is fixed. Is it? Or is it moving away such that we'll never be able to measure back to it, just consider how long we've been moving away and how fast so we can expect to find the beginning point. Of course the universe isn't a ray, or a line. It has matter and energy, the line and ray are just defined things to learn. But they don't exist. The universe is apparently expanding from that singular point at which it started. So the universe isn't infinite. Yet. (Actually, that seems to be a problem with how we define finite or infinite and not the actual physical characteristics of the universe.) I'm wondering about if what it's expanding into is infinite and always has been. Empty "space" - that is free of matter and energy, the universe being the stuff that "is" and is expanding. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 7:45:51 AM EDT
[#33]
It just kinda happened.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 7:49:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Faith is nothing more than believing that there is a God, and not requiring proof. God made the Universe, and anything that denies that it was God, is confusion and chaos.
I reject atheism, because it is a belief system that is chaotic, and doesn’t make a bit of sense. So I am a Christian. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:11:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I misunderstood your original point. This thread is moving fast. I am not a theologian, but this is an argument I've heard amongst different Christian sects, particularly Catholics. In Genesis it says "Let us make man in our image. . . . God made man in his likeness." One side takes it literally, that god made us in his image. The other side, the one in which I would place myself in, is the image of God would represent that real constitution of human being that man has because he is God's image. Man was created in a state of original righteousness the original righteousness of God in a sinless condition in the garden. So image would not be a human form, but an image of original righteousness or sinless condition. I was under the impression you were arguing that god could not take on the image of man if he so viewed himself that way. My apologies for misunderstanding. The last part of your question I can only assume that the only thing that could motivate creation would be that it would be for the benefit of the creature that the creature would now have the incomprehensible privilege of coming to know God, an incommensurable good. What this means, interestingly enough, is that creation as well as salvation is by grace alone. Creation is also solely by grace, just as salvation is solely by grace. Suggesting that an ominipotent being would desire to create lesser beings to bestow upon them the privilege of knowing god is arrogant and selfish. Both human traits. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:12:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We live on a planet that has an atmosphere that contains almost 21% of the most corrosive substance in the universe. You know. Oxygen. Uniquely situated for life.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Explain a scenario by which an observer (i.e. you) could ask this question in a universe not uniquely suited to life. We live on a planet that has an atmosphere that contains almost 21% of the most corrosive substance in the universe. You know. Oxygen. Uniquely situated for life. I mean, lol, assuming the lifeforms aren't made of metal, yeah. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:15:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are varying views on this. The one I conform to is that Jesus came at the exact time where his message would reach the most people. Had it been 3,000 years earlier, or 1,000, or even 500, it may have faded into obscurity and have been forever forgotten. But… I do like you theory that God was just hanging out on his iPhone playing Snake Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Feel free to point me towards it, but I hope you are not referring to the cosmic soup. Again, before the Big Bang, there is nothing. As in, not anything. That is accepted by most of scientist. That is why atheists have hung their hopes on cosmic crunch theory in order to erase a finite universe. You just said that there could have been something before the Bing Bang. Everything we know about the universe goes against that assertion. It's widely accepted that the universe sprang into existence and a tremendous amount of energy was released about 13.8 billion years ago. Answer this, if God created all this why is it that He came down and told us the way to heaven only 2,000 years ago? Was he sitting around staring at his iPhone and one day was like, "Oh shit I've been sending these monkeys to Hell for 98,000 years...hey Jesus get down there and tell them what to do!" Why hasn't he came back to tell the rest of us? If some guy came out the clouds and said, "Hey Wolverine1776 I made you come with me and I'll give you eternal life". I'd agree, and he supposedly created me knowing that. And yet he hasn't. There are varying views on this. The one I conform to is that Jesus came at the exact time where his message would reach the most people. Had it been 3,000 years earlier, or 1,000, or even 500, it may have faded into obscurity and have been forever forgotten. But… I do like you theory that God was just hanging out on his iPhone playing Snake This makes no sense to me. There were only about 250,000,000 people in the world then. He could reach far more people if he came today. Not only that, but modern communications technology is a lot more efficient than walking from village to village and talking. Jesus could be a popular youtuber, turning water into wine, etc. on his channel. And beyond all this, why doesn't god (any god) just show himself in the sky and say "this is the shit I want from you humans, whom I created"? You have to twist your mind into a pretzel to accept this stuff as true. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:19:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Never been religious, but it takes a lot of faith to believe there was nothing, then something a femtosecond later. A higher being makes at least as much sense. That said, worrying about how many fingers you cross yourself with or the number of angels dancing on a pin definitely goes off the deep end of silly and people did agonize over this... and killed over it as well.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:57:21 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the cosmic crunch theory. Again; the issue is that this would be an infinite loop. If that’s the case, you would never arrive at the part of the loop we exist in, as there would always be an infinite number of loops before this loop. If you drop the infinite theory, than the same question is posed. How did the cosmic crunch begin? Agreed...where matter is involved, it had to come from somewhere. But I disagree that "you would never arrive at the part of the loop we exist in"....because here we are. Who's to say that this is or isn't the first time that the particles of matter haven't coalesced in just such a way that life began. Or maybe that was by design. But I agree....where did all the "stuff" come from? It's hard for our minds to conceptualize infinity, or something/someone that has always existed as long as time has existed. That something/someone would have to span the potentially infinite number of bangs and collapses. We ants sure are dumb. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:58:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Just because they don't believe in God doesn't mean God is the answer for everything nor does it mean that they have the answer.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:59:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Beats me
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:16:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is possible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Universe is a simulation. This is possible. We are pretty sure it's a hologram. I'm Christian, but the whole 6 days thing is a parable and not to be taken literally. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:18:45 AM EDT
[#43]
I don't believe there was a "beginning". There was nothing before it.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:20:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do laws of physics even exist? Why are those laws so finely tuned to allow for human life? How has a cosmic accident produced consciousness? Sounds like you had a really crappy Catholic teacher. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How does a start time mandate a magical, omniscient, omnipotent god? The science that allows you to post on the interwebz requires data to prove a theory—that’s how science advances. So, there is no proof on either side. BUT, nothing faith-based has ever been proven—that’s why it’s called, “faith.” The Universe is subject to laws of physics—some of which we don’t and may not ever understand. Gravity explains a coalescence of gas & matter that could explain the “Big Bang Theory,” but not all the data is there—hence “theory,” and added “Dark Matter” and other crap we don’t understand. I was raised Catholic. Even in grade school, the dogmatic inconsistencies & ritualized weekly cannibalism confused me, so i’m no longer religious—especially not Catholic. Maybe Buddhist or Taoist, but definitely not Catholic. Why do laws of physics even exist? Why are those laws so finely tuned to allow for human life? How has a cosmic accident produced consciousness? Sounds like you had a really crappy Catholic teacher. The laws of physics aren't "finely tuned", but statistically, in a place as large as the universe, you're going to end up with places where it works. Winning the powerball is highly unlikely, but it's almost certain that someone will, somewhere. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:29:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suggest you do a little research and get the religious perspective on these passages. Here is small snippet that explains it in part. “When we look at the command to kill the male Midianite children, there are two perspectives we might take. One is the more understandably temporal. During the timeframe in question, tribal warfare was rampant. It was highly likely that the male Midianite children would grow up and seek revenge for their fathers and grandfathers against Israel. Avenging the death of one’s father is a commonly accepted necessity in every culture and even in popular fiction—it’s what motivates Hamlet in Shakespeare’s classic play and what energizes Inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride. Further, the utterly disgusting depravity in which these Midianite boys had been raised is well documented. Regular behaviors among the Midianites included child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality. The divine prohibition of these acts was codified, and the acts were known to the Israelites (Leviticus 18:21, 23–24). Male inhabitants carrying on the lineage of this culture would have been a perennial problem for Israel.” Can't help but notice you skipped over the part about taking the girls as sex slaves. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:40:07 AM EDT
[#46]
The Big Bang Theory deals with expansion of the universe from the earliest moments. It does not deal with the creation. Most people think the the BBT accounts for the creation of the universe, which is simple not true. CMB points to a point and time of singularity but this model is still up for some debate. There are a few alternatives such as, gravity loops, multiverse, membranes, or even bounces.
I don't see how this really makes a difference on if you are religious or not. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:43:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was tongue in cheek. I think it blew right over your head. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:45:38 AM EDT
[#48]
There's no evidence to suggest that God made man, but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that man made God.
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:51:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: All of modern science points to a finite past. Thus, time and space had a beginning. In an Atheistic worldview, how does one get a beginning to the universe? It seems apparent there needs to be a causal event, “Big Bang” theory, but before time and space existed, how does one get said causal event? It would seem that something would need to exist beyond time and space to create the universe. School me atheists.  well first off, I dont just make a up an origin story and write a book and sell a bunch of them for profit like some folks... but that would make more $$$ let me ask this - have you ever seen matter created or destroyed? not just transformed or rearranged, but completely destroyed or created from nothing? no? then let me wonder why humans need to apply a very human-esque lifecycle to literally everything. was there a causal event? or was there just a prior state, and a current state, and prior to that what? more states. |
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Posted: 9/29/2021 9:53:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Not an atheist but
Shit happens |
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