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Posted: 3/21/2023 12:43:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident.  Yeah, this is a bit different then suing burger king after you slipped and fell from the soda you dropped. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 12:46:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's agree that, at a minimum, Boeing is completely tone deaf. Some posters are outraged, perhaps justifiably. Of those ITT who are outraged, are any man enough to say they're also pro-choice on abortion? How does the unborn baby feel? More terrified, or less terrified, than those airplane passengers? Not a trick question. It would be damned near impossible to hold both views, yet I'm confident there is someone here who does. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 12:47:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ridiculous excessive litigation needs to stop. It's truly why we can't have anything. There can never be perfection or zero risk. To think there can be is delusional. Lol Eta: we got this, Ukraine, China, and abortion so far 
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Posted: 3/21/2023 12:50:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Rod Serlings brother wrote a book about similar profit motives. Cost of retrofitting a fix vs lawsuits.
So what I get from the Boeing attorneys is that if you shoot one in the back of the head then all is copacetic because no suffering occurred. I’m for it. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 12:52:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same kind of person who would abort their own child, for their own convenience, is the type of person who would happily make a decision that causes a family to be burned alive in a firery crash... in order to save a couple million. We agree. But it's not an either/or. It can be "get both." Because I'm guessing there are plenty of GDers who decry what Boeing is doing, yet turn a blind eye to other, more egregious suffering. It's hypocrisy and it's part of the human condition. We hate what we hate and the other stuff not so much. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:00:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident. It’s arguable that the crashes wouldn’t have happened with non third world crews |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:07:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The blind corporate cock gobbling in a pathetic attempt to virtue signal what a bigger and better principled, capitalist conservative one is, is a genuine tragedy of this place. How much should each victim receive? |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:08:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See this? This is why folks hate lawyers. From a guy who loves lawyers, you are correct. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:10:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much should each victim receive? $5M lump sum, $87k/yr for life, all debts cancelled, full parole,... Ooops, wrong thread. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:16:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s arguable that the crashes wouldn’t have happened with non third world crews THIS |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:20:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dont worry. ARFCom's Military Industrial Complex shills will be here shortly to tell us those families are "ungrateful turds", and they should be happy to receive $5 and a Charms blow pop. Afterall, they employ lots of Conservatives! For that privilege, we should be licking the executives ball sacks! Besides, there were no BILLIONAIRES on those flights... so no one that matters died.  We should be happy that Boeing is helping America kill more ORCS! THATS ALL THAT MATTERS! We should be *HAPPY* Billionaires have such talented lawyers to make sure they don't have to be held accountable for their actions. Holding rich people accountable is * COMMUNISM! * You just typed a bunch of random words which have no direction, point, or cohesiveness. It’s just unintelligible rambling, and unfortunately, par for the course. Just when I think you’re finally growing up, and out of the self defeating socialist tendencies, you go ahead and prove me wrong. Fwiw, I’m not defending Boeing, only rational thought and discourse. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:37:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean letting severely under qualified pilots operate the plane? Yes, Boeing did wrong…but it was not outside the scope of what a reasonably trained/experienced pilot could handle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident. You mean letting severely under qualified pilots operate the plane? Yes, Boeing did wrong…but it was not outside the scope of what a reasonably trained/experienced pilot could handle. Fwiw, you are kinda wrong in your assumption. On a good day, the failure might have been noted, and handled simply and without drama. But, it was a treacherous sort of failure, at a very critical phase of flight. Yes, US crew members are better, but not perfect. It very easily could have gotten any one of us. There’s really no excuse for what Boeing did, in putting the Mcas system on just one AOA, without any comparator. I still can’t believe they did that, and what’s worse; they didn’t tell anybody. How did they not anticipate the threat of a malfunctioning AOA? If anyone is curious; the Max is a great airplane. Always was. It would have been safe without the MCAS, and it’s perfectly safe now. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:44:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Read what the wikis have to say about the MAX, and the groundings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings ETAhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Augmentation_System |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 1:50:28 AM EDT
[#14]
If it's a Boeing, I ain't going.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:08:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fwiw, you are kinda wrong in your assumption. On a good day, the failure might have been noted, and handled simply and without drama. But, it was a treacherous sort of failure, at a very critical phase of flight. Yes, US crew members are better, but not perfect. It very easily could have gotten any one of us. There’s really no excuse for what Boeing did, in putting the Mcas system on just one AOA, without any comparator. I still can’t believe they did that, and what’s worse; they didn’t tell anybody. How did they not anticipate the threat of a malfunctioning AOA? If anyone is curious; the Max is a great airplane. Always was. It would have been safe without the MCAS, and it’s perfectly safe now. I disagree with your observation. There was nothing about those two incidents that weren’t recoverable. From a pilot’s perspective a runaway pitch trim is a runaway pitch trim. They (Ethiopian pilots) were inexperienced and tried to solve a flight control malfunction at takeoff power and excessive airspeed. “Very critical” I would call a failure at v1. Both crashes were airborne and had quite a bit of time to solve the issue. I do agree with you though that the MAX is a great plane. Reference the two crashes:  Boeing 737 MAX Crashes Immediately After Takeoff | Here's What Really Happened to Flight 610  Boeing 737 MAX Crashes Immediately After Takeoff | Here's What Really Happened to Flight 302 |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:11:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only when viewed through the lens of a trial lawyer. Negligence at most and to that I say that's just life in a technological civilization where consumers want to travel a planet. Have some perspective and cut the outrage. Chinese state-controlled (since the Chinese state controls everything) kills a few million--ho hum otrage level. A few hundred by imperfect management--mass outrage. Spare us. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions, not an accident. Only when viewed through the lens of a trial lawyer. Negligence at most and to that I say that's just life in a technological civilization where consumers want to travel a planet. Have some perspective and cut the outrage. Chinese state-controlled (since the Chinese state controls everything) kills a few million--ho hum otrage level. A few hundred by imperfect management--mass outrage. Spare us. I am not a trial lawyer, or any other type of lawyer. I see it the same way as AEROMECH. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:17:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Well, they aren't wrong. I would point my anger at whomever or whichever institution made those standards for this kind of decision.
If the metric for payout is "did the person suffer painfully". Then of course Boeing is going to tell the truth that plowing 400nph into the ground causes no pain. It sucks. But that's how this all works. Change the system. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:20:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, they aren't wrong. I would point my anger at whomever or whichever institution made those standards for this kind of decision. If the metric for payout is "did the person suffer painfully". Then of course Boeing is going to tell the truth that plowing 400nph into the ground causes no pain. It sucks. But that's how this all works. Change the system. Also, you’ll probably get a bigger payout from Boeing rather than either Lion or Ethiopian Air |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:24:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Lawyers and that company are scum, that is awful.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:27:33 AM EDT
[#20]
 Warning issued. ~bcauz3y |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:33:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Seems to be working, Boeing stock closed up $3.72 today.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:35:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Change the system. You can’t be this naive. Attempting to “change” the system that protects itself with great verve is going to be as successful and attempting to vote our way out of the political mess we find ourselves in. Another words, it’s virtually impossible. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 3:15:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, they aren't wrong. I would point my anger at whomever or whichever institution made those standards for this kind of decision. If the metric for payout is "did the person suffer painfully". Then of course Boeing is going to tell the truth that plowing 400nph into the ground causes no pain. It sucks. But that's how this all works. Change the system. Well that's not how it works as most people seem to be understanding it, this is an argument by boeing regarding damages. They're arguing over how much money, more or less |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 3:32:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean letting severely under qualified pilots operate the plane? Yes, Boeing did wrong…but it was not outside the scope of what a reasonably trained/experienced pilot could handle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident. You mean letting severely under qualified pilots operate the plane? Yes, Boeing did wrong…but it was not outside the scope of what a reasonably trained/experienced pilot could handle. Yep. The FO on the 2nd crash had no business being in that cockpit. He took away from the Capt’s abilities and made things worse. I didn’t study the first crash much. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 3:55:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree with your observation. There was nothing about those two incidents that weren’t recoverable. From a pilot’s perspective a runaway pitch trim is a runaway pitch trim. They (Ethiopian pilots) were inexperienced and tried to solve a flight control malfunction at takeoff power and excessive airspeed. “Very critical” I would call a failure at v1. Both crashes were airborne and had quite a bit of time to solve the issue. I do agree with you though that the MAX is a great plane. Reference the two crashes:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T5xhHzZjPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5P8CkVckmAI’m admittedly ignorant regarding anything related to piloting any aircraft, but in both of these crashes the planes were nose down and in a near vertical position. Wouldn’t the crew have felt this, seen it on their display, and know to make adjustments? Note to self. Never fly Ethiopian or Lion Airlines. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 4:43:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Let's strap those motherfuckers into a big metal tube and send it hurling into the ground and see if they experience any physical pain from the sheer terror of knowing they are going to die.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 6:10:03 AM EDT
[#27]
The lack of knowledge from people in here on something they barely understand is dumbfounding. So may experts. So little intelligence.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 6:13:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lack of knowledge from people in here on something they barely understand is dumbfounding. So may experts. So little intelligence. Username checks out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 6:27:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ridiculous excessive litigation needs to stop. It's truly why we can't have anything. There can never be perfection or zero risk. To think there can be is delusional. Found the lawyer |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 6:52:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rich people who deliberately put people into harms way, *LIE* about the dangers their workers face in order to be able to cut corners... and then get people killed AND THEN hire high priced attorneys to get out of having to pay the grieving families? CoC Prevents me from saying what should be done with such subhuman garbage. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 6:54:08 AM EDT
[#31]
The passengers likely had plenty of time to process that the plane, pointed straight down, was falling out of the sky. For some passengers this may have been a stressful experience.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 6:54:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair, they probably didn’t suffer any pain -sheer terror is a different story.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 7:05:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's agree that, at a minimum, Boeing is completely tone deaf. Some posters are outraged, perhaps justifiably. Of those ITT who are outraged, are any man enough to say they're also pro-choice on abortion? How does the unborn baby feel? More terrified, or less terrified, than those airplane passengers? Not a trick question. It would be damned near impossible to hold both views, yet I'm confident there is someone here who does. 
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Posted: 3/21/2023 7:09:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident. This But many here gladly tote a company line |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 7:10:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that's not how it works as most people seem to be understanding it, this is an argument by boeing regarding damages. They're arguing over how much money, more or less Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, they aren't wrong. I would point my anger at whomever or whichever institution made those standards for this kind of decision. If the metric for payout is "did the person suffer painfully". Then of course Boeing is going to tell the truth that plowing 400nph into the ground causes no pain. It sucks. But that's how this all works. Change the system. Well that's not how it works as most people seem to be understanding it, this is an argument by boeing regarding damages. They're arguing over how much money, more or less I agree, it is called negotiation. I don't think Boeing et al chooses every word their attorneys use or the tactics they employ. The hate for the company is unfounded in my opinion. While the verbiage may not be ideal the argument is sound. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 7:53:57 AM EDT
[#36]
The suffering was from the time the plane started going dow. Until it crashed into the ground. Award then the billions.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 7:58:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair, they probably didn’t suffer any pain -sheer terror is a different story. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:04:08 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The ridiculous excessive litigation needs to stop. It's truly why we can't have anything. There can never be perfection or zero risk. To think there can be is delusional. @ScopeScar What happened here was gross-negligence of epic proportions caused by a corporate culture focused purely on profit while tossing safety out the window. Not an accident. From what I understand they went with cheap labor from India to write this program and they could have added some type of emergency bypass but did not and they did not train people how to handle this situation. For a little extra they could have made it easy and safe. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:06:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Seems like knowing you are going to die as a pilot struggles to control an out of control aircraft might induce some suffering.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:10:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dont worry. ARFCom's Military Industrial Complex shills will be here shortly to tell us those families are "ungrateful turds", and they should be happy to receive $5 and a Charms blow pop. Afterall, they employ lots of Conservatives! For that privilege, we should be licking the executives ball sacks! Besides, there were no BILLIONAIRES on those flights... so no one that matters died. We should be happy that Boeing is helping America kill more ORCS! THATS ALL THAT MATTERS! We should be *HAPPY* Billionaires have such talented lawyers to make sure they don't have to be held accountable for their actions. Holding rich people accountable is * COMMUNISM! * |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:12:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, they aren't wrong. I would point my anger at whomever or whichever institution made those standards for this kind of decision. If the metric for payout is "did the person suffer painfully". Then of course Boeing is going to tell the truth that plowing 400nph into the ground causes no pain. It sucks. But that's how this all works. Change the system. Cue John Jameson saying "That's the neat part. You can't!" We live in an unrepresentative Democracy. Our "Democracy" is nothing more than a system to fool the masses into thinking they have any semblance of control over our masters, rather than the reality that we are literally no different than systems of old where only a few ultra-wealthy people truly have any say. 90% of Americans could be against a pending bit of legislation... but if the wealthy elite all want it... it is practically guaranteed to pass. Democracy is nothing more than a psyop. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:14:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Dick the Butcher had it right:
“The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.” |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:15:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: THIS Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s arguable that the crashes wouldn’t have happened with non third world crews THIS Yep. It was largely a training issue. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:17:51 AM EDT
[#44]
sounds like they pulled those lawyers out of the HR dept.
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:18:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ridiculous excessive litigation needs to stop. It's truly why we can't have anything. There can never be perfection or zero risk. To think there can be is delusional. You are right. EVERYTHING YOU DO HAS RISK. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:21:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ridiculous excessive litigation needs to stop. It's truly why we can't have anything. There can never be perfection or zero risk. To think there can be is delusional. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:23:15 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are right. EVERYTHING YOU DO HAS RISK. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The ridiculous excessive litigation needs to stop. It's truly why we can't have anything. There can never be perfection or zero risk. To think there can be is delusional. You are right. EVERYTHING YOU DO HAS RISK. Funny. If I, as a lowly peasant, make a tiny mistake and get someone killed... there's a good chance I'll go to jail for manslaughter. But somehow that all changes when you add a few zeroes to my bank account. Lady Justice is a cheap whore. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:24:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dont worry. ARFCom's Military Industrial Complex shills will be here shortly to tell us those families are "ungrateful turds", and they should be happy to receive $5 and a Charms blow pop. Afterall, they employ lots of Conservatives! For that privilege, we should be licking the executives ball sacks! Besides, there were no BILLIONAIRES on those flights... so no one that matters died. We should be happy that Boeing is helping America kill more ORCS! THATS ALL THAT MATTERS! We should be *HAPPY* Billionaires have such talented lawyers to make sure they don't have to be held accountable for their actions. Holding rich people accountable is * COMMUNISM! * Just for your information: This IS NOT DU, please post such commie shit over there, not here. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:29:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's strap those motherfuckers into a big metal tube and send it hurling into the ground and see if they experience any physical pain from the sheer terror of knowing they are going to die. Let's load that tube with the FAA too. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:52:37 AM EDT
[#50]
This post reminded me I still haven't watched the movie Worth.
 WORTH | Official Trailer | Netflix |
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