Hmm.

Well, IMHO? Over time, the best women are going to come off the draft board.
A quality lady with good character, agreeableness, wise, makes good decisions, throw in some beauty - those women USUALLY aren't single forever
Someone's gunna notice.
At some point it'll be a good guy.
On a long enough time line, they find someone.
After a certain point, women who are/or were once genuine first round draft picks, become super rare.
"Biden speaking gaffe free longer than a sentence," rare.

I think men are best served trying to maximize their opportunities when the dating pool is at its largest.
Yes, male options don't quite have the same challenges women do with age.
BUT, from a gameplan perspective, I do think a man is best off trying to put in some effort/work when younger, if possible.

It's hard to accomplish that if a guy is jaded, wounded, and watching some good options that he might even qualify for - walk right by his nose.

I’m sure the loveworn here could benefit from hearing how you managed a have 20+ year successful marriage.  Prithee, share.

Personally, I would never do it. I admit that I dated some older women when I was in my 20s and I was broke (including a 42-year old when I was 27). But I stopped dating older women after I turned 30 and found a career, at which point, I found it easy to be a lot pickier about who I date. I also stopped dating women in their mid-30s once I hit my mid-30s.

My fiancée is 34 (and she was 32 when we met), and she was at the upper age limit of what I was willing to date at the time. Quite honestly, I would have rather met someone younger, because I was previously engaged to someone who was 6 years younger than me. But alas, I wasn't able to find what I was looking for in any of the younger women I dated. And now that I'm about to turn 37, I don't see myself going back to the dating scene.

I’ll break it down a little for those who seem to have difficulty picking up what I’m putting down. If you are firm in the belief that it can’t work, that relationships end in failure, that there are no good ones left, you will notice examples that confirm your bias. Those are the ones that will stand out to you because that’s what you’re expecting to see. You probably have also surrounded yourself with people who have lived their lives in such a way as to confirm your bias.

Conversely, if you are of the opinion that it can work, that relationships can last a lifetime, and that the world is full of possibilities, you will notice examples that confirm your bias. You will also probably have surrounded yourself with people who have lived in such a way as to confirm your bias.

If you go looking for something, the things you aren’t focused on fade into the background.

I think perhaps where Machinist was coming from more with his attitude that you have responded to in the past couple of days, is along the lines of mine: an abused dog.  I’ve read his story put forth here, but don’t know him nor ‘the whole story’, so I’ll just use myself as the example.  From my experience, I relate to the abused dog.  It’s all I have known.  I look around and see other dogs with their owners getting warm attention and praise, and otherwise a genuine loving experience.  I know it’s possible, that it exists, and even my own instincts drive me towards wanting that relationship with a [human], in other words believing in it and searching...but what i have learned is that instead of warm embrace and petting received, what is received is beatings and abuse.  So even when approaching someone new that may truly mean well, the abused dog still reacts when the hand is outstretched to pet...it’s all the dog has known in his life.  

So while I agree with most all of what you’ve said, please remember that damage can be done enough to lead to having a certain outlook like the abused dog...even though we know that warm, loving interaction is possible and instinctually we want it...it’s just what we have received instead is the pain and abuse.  

I’ve been looking, and looking, and looking...I haven’t found it.  I have found a couple of very good potentials (and just a few), but it’s always “bad timing”, or some other BS like that where it must come to an end.  Of course one could say, “well there’s still time, keep looking!”...but the point I’ve been trying to make is at some point we all run out of time.  I’m not different, and won’t be getting any special treatment or time extensions.  And even if something was found today, there’s still years to put in before marriage and kids...more time.  On that same token, there’s no guarantees, no promises have been made.  There’s nothing that says I’m slated to receive the blessing of a good woman to build and spend a life with.  So maybe some of us are destined to spend our life in the Sahara, while still hoping to catch a fish...

And that's only if they want to change.  Most of them don't, nor can they even admit they have an issue.

From what I understand (and I could be totally wrong, so please correct me if I am!), narcissists are made, rather than born.  Which would explain my ex-wife.  She was a wonderful, loving, great person, until she started making serious money as an attorney and basically never loses cases (I think in the 11 years she's been an attorney, she's only lost a single case, and losing that case really messed with her for a bit). I guess regularly making the kind of money she does, and having the job she has, really changed who she was as a person.  What she really needs is a slice of humble pie...maybe that would bring her back down to earth a little.

What he has been writing does not indicate that. Saying things like this:



does not indicate that he recognizes that there is still a good amount of decent women out there. Rather, he has repeated that he believes there is such an insignificant number of good women that there is no point. Not just that he has a hard time moving on from past bad experiences.

Two friends are trying to find them for a couple of months, their requirements, not fat, no libtard and a job.

Last time I talked to one of them, he was about to give up.

You have to be extremely lucky to find a decent woman these times.

cowboy up.

I too will invite the input of others before I say this part
IIRC, while they are made, I think they're USUALLY made during childhood  
I'm not sure if they're made later.

In my reading I don't know if I've ever run across that dynamic, but by no means do I know enough to say that it's impossible



This popped to mind.
Attached File

Check that out. Watch the divorce rate shooooooot up if a woman makes the Big Bucks^TM.
I mean it's not a death sentence if that's the case in a relationship, but it's not unheard of.

Check this out, it's from a video by that totally super right wing incel cheetoh fingers Jordan Peterson.
(I'm being sarcastic guys, he's not, only the Cathy Newman types think that.)

Attached File

Check that out.
SES = Socio Economic Status.


For men, having higher socio economic status was a good reliable predictor, more so with age.
For women it was .04
Jordan tip-toed around this artfully.
The late Kevin Samuels would just come out and tell us, "Your degrees and your money do not change your dating level."

If they're making big money, and they feel that they are now entitled to a man with big money?
Oh boy.
It might put her in the orbit of these guys, but that's not how it works, and it's something we all tip toe around.
It's very hard to try to tell a female doctor that their dating level is totally the same as a female nurse who is just as intelligent as she is, but chose a different career path.
The "Stay at home mom" with an IQ of 130 with a pedestrian job that's second to her family, is on the same level with the female lawyer.
Telling a professional woman this is like throwing a bucket of snakes on the floor.
If you're talking about women of equal intelligence, character, and beauty? They're peers.
Yes, men pre-select on beauty lines, and we're visual and all that.
But character gets a woman married.
The money thing is basically just a bonus for most males (and a non-factor for rich ones), that's not the difference between her making the pro-bowl or not.

Think about it.
..if he doesn't need her money, then why would he value it, particularly if she puts strings attached.

She might feel that changed Her Level^TM.
For the mating game, it didn't.




Sometimes even when those people take an L, do they self reflect and figure out what went wrong?
Do they think, "Hey why am I so mean to people - why do I think that I'm better than that other person? Because my car is newer or nicer? That's a bizarre way to live life, this makes no sense. Let me think my way through this."
Nope

Know what it probably sounded like? A "hitler finds out" youtube video.


"It's that fucking NEW INTERN.
She fucked up the papers! It's HER Fault she fucked it all up!
That dumb judge was a MORON and shouldn't be a judge anymore!
That jury was a bunch of fucking zoo animals! You could almost SMELL those knuckledraggers."



ETA: if you want, I could totally try an autopsy on what happened if I had a few more details.
For science, you know
If not it's alright, I'm just some guy on the internet with a netflix show avatar, on a board that the feds probably watch lmao.

I know, but if I was a bettin’ man, I’d wager he falls in line more with what I said.  I’ve read what he has said, and I’m also sort of reading between the lines.  Maybe he will come in here and set the record straight.  At least from my standpoint, I can either say I knew where he was coming from, or I can fully side with Namaah...in regards to what she’s said directly to him.

I get it, and I’m not even saying you’re wrong in the abused dog comparison. But here’s the thing. An abused dog that resorts to snapping and growling anytime anyone gets close doesn’t often find a loving home. It gets sent back to the shelter with a bite warning or just put down. It loses all chance at a decent home unless it can figure out that the next folks aren’t necessarily like the last folks.

And that’s what he’s doing. Everyone going forward has to pay for what’s already happened, and he’s driving away or dismissing the ones who might be decent matches. And that’s all well and good if he just doesn’t ever want a decent relationship again, but that’s not the impression he gives. The fact that he keeps emphasizing the “American” part indicates that he somehow thinks all his issues would disappear with a woman from a foreign country, but he doesn’t have the patience or desire to figure out where he went wrong to begin with. Not taking the time to analyze why he ended up with narcissistic users and blaming “America” as the problem means he refuses to acknowledge his part in the way things turned out (beyond a nebulous nod at “I’m not good at picking women” without any interest in figuring out who or how to stop that) and leaves him vulnerable to a narcissistic user from another country. And with his idealistic concept of foreign women and his track record of being with users, the language and cultural barriers will leave him even more vulnerable to a user who sees him as a meal ticket out of a third world shit hole.

Quoted so it's seen again

I guess you got me there, as I was more associating the abused dog example with wincing and jumping back away tail-tucked rather than letting the hand reach out and petting commence and that human show that not everyone is going to beat you... instead of lamenting from a distance.  In my mind with that example, the human has to understand the damage, take certain measures to earn the trust, and be patient and consistent.  That’s kind of how I view women at this point for myself.  I need to see a little extra effort and consistent reciprocation on their part in order to set themselves apart.  Otherwise they look like everyone else following the same patterns that lead to pain and failure for the man.

I want to press on this spot in the design here.
"The next girl has to do __________, because of the last girl"
Red flag.

I'm not saying that consistency, honesty, and reciprocation aren't healthy things to expect and give in a relationship.
But people don't usually scale the castle walls to get into them.
Extra steps because of prior wounds = those wounds have not healed.

Even those dogs (and people) need someone who is patient, aware of what’s going on, and willing to work through that. That is, to put it bluntly, baggage that only a small subset of people are willing to take on. Even decent people may simply take a pass on that.

No one likes being held accountable for someone else’s actions, nor cleaning up someone else’s messes. That’s why it’s important for people to really analyze what went wrong, how they contributed to it, and why they made the choices they made. Unlike dogs, we have a choice in who we cohabit with. You make a choice to be with that person, and you make the choice to stay with that person. Figuring out why is important if you want to avoid a person like that again. Working through it won’t make the baggage go away, but it can help a person avoid inflicting it on the next potential partner who comes their way.

Every comment above knows their spouse hasn’t had a giant $&$& or currently has a weekly appointment for one.
Sorry, not sorry

You are reading way too much into some stuff I have said. I have repeatedly used the term American women for one reason, and one reason only; I have no experience with women from any country other than the USA, and would not be so presumptuous as to believe the ALL women are like American women.

I know it is meant to be a funny meme but there's some truth to it, as well. If their mom isn't a nice person, the chances of the daughter being a nice person are pretty small, too.

Some quick example stories:

I discovered awhile back that my ex-MIL is one of those "oh he just has a man cold, women are so much stronger than men" types, if a man in her life is sick.  She evidently taught that behavior and philosophy to her daughters (gee thanks).  It doesn't help that her husband is an "I can't ever show any weakness" type, so he drags himself to the office even when he's on his death bed, and infects everyone there.  So clearly that's what all men are supposed to do!

Side note: I'm missing part of my immune system, so when I get sick, it stays with me for a long time.  Takes me forever to shake it.

One time a few years back I had been feeling terrible for a few weeks and finally decided to go to the urgent care.  I found out that while I was there, my (now ex) wife was complaining to her mom about me..."He's not really sick, he's just a hypochondriac, he doesn't feel that bad", blah blah blah.  So I get to the urgent care, and they tell me I'm running a fever just over 103F.  They gave me a tylenol immediately to help bring the fever down.  Thanks for all the support, wife!  Really making me feel loved.

Most of the time when I was sick, instead of the slightest bit of empathy, all I got was her saying "Man the fuck up and go to work!"  Damn, I thought that's why we had sick days, so we wouldn't have to infect everyone else at work...no one at the office wants to hear me about to cough up a lung.  She thought I wanted her to "mommy" me.  No, but damn, don't treat me like I'm a fucking leper.  Maybe treat me like someone you (supposedly?) love and care about.

Allow me to expand a bit on what I mean: traditionally a man chases the woman and courts her...maybe she plays hard to get to test him and how much he wants her, etc.  So maybe he’s putting forth ~75% of the overall work to make the relationship happen (I’m talking about the dating world here, not years into a marriage).  What I am describing is a bit more mutual effort being measured out - if I am viewed as high-value, I’m wanting to see a bit more than 25% effort in the chase...with the current ways of today’s dating.  And to be clear, I’m not talking about utilizing the alpha male manipulative techniques like ‘dread’ and that stuff...just demonstrate to me that your level of interest is on the same plane as mine is to you.  Show me some effort on the woman’s part, and show me that I stand out from the rest in your “rotation”.  Show me that you understand what the ‘rotation game’ has done, that I am familiar with that and branch-swinging...and that mutual steps should be taken to show genuine-ness.  I don’t do the dating apps nor do I have any social media.  But I do understand how that mess works, and the present-day tendencies of women in the dating field.  

Point is, as an abused dog, I have learned the hard way to recognize the patterns and tendencies of women and what may lead to further abuse.  Women viewing us damaged men aren’t the only ones who can see red flags...

I know I personally get a giggle internally when the woman plays the I'm tougher/"I'll beat you up card"
I'd get all
"Don't make me come over there "
Then make this face:

Frisbee her little ass onto the bed/couch and all that.



So would you say in general, she wasn't a very loving person?

She could be, at times...especially when we were first together and first married.  Law school and being a lawyer ruined all that, at least towards me.  She's super loving to our kids, and somehow she can be incredibly thoughtful and generous with things like gift-giving.  But zero empathy for things like someone being sick. It is a weird dichotomy.

I want to talk about this list about narcissists again, because I have the perfect story to illustrate every one of these points, from an argument I had with my ex-wife from just a few days ago.

Back in March I went in-person to our local YMCA to register our 3 kids for the summer day camp, because their online portal was having issues.  I fill out all the forms by hand in triplicate (having 3 young kids is great for that ), hand them in, and pay for the deposit for the whole summer.  No issues.

About a week and a half ago, my ex says she hasn't heard anything from the Y about the summer camp, and when she goes in their online registration system, she sees that our kids are registered for the wrong age groups.  Instead of saying "Hey I think there's something wrong, all 3 of our kids are in the wrong age group", she immediately jumps to the conclusion that I made a mistake when registering them, and blames me.  As if that is the first and only option.  Because in her mind, she's always 100% right and everything I do is 100% wrong.  There's zero other things it could be, right? Just her stupid ex-husband not knowing how old his own kids are (), and he's so stupid that he registered them for the wrong age groups.  Computer issues?  Nah.  Issues from transcribing the registration forms I filled out by hand into the system?  Nope. Not possible.  The only possible explanation in her mind is that I screwed up.  I point this out to her, and she responds back saying she didn't blame me (Then why did you clearly state "You registered them for the wrong age groups." !?!?!? ) and that she's too busy to talk and needs to get things done.

Over lunch I drive to the YMCA to see what's going on.  The lady running the summer camp program says she already found the issue earlier and has fixed it on the back end, but due to a problem with their new registration system, it will still show the incorrect age group on our end.  Ok whatever.  I ask what happened, and she said the front desk people who were putting everything in the system from the handwritten forms didn't put kids in their correct age groups in their new registration system, and just assigned a bunch of kids to the youngest age group because that was the top option in the dropdown list on their system.  Translation: NOT. MY. FAULT.

I tell all this to my ex-wife.  Do I get an apology for how she assumed I made a mistake?  No.  Does she show the slightest bit of appreciation for me taking time out of my day to get it figured out?  No.

Later that I night I tell her if she's being honest with herself, she owes me an apology for how she acted.  I say that just to get at her, because I knew she would hate that, and of course, she went nuclear.

She ends that argument with "Only contact me if it's about our kids.  I'm done."  Sounds good to me!  From past history when she's made statements like this, I know she'll be back to her normal self in 2-3 days.  I go with it though, and don't contact her unless it directly involves our kids.

Less than 24 hours later, she sends me a message with a recipe she found online and says she thinks I'd enjoy making it with our kids.

Less than 48 hours later, I'm at her place dropping our kids off.  As I'm walking back to my car, and the garage door is closing, I hear her say "OH, WAIT!! I meant to ask you..."  (me, internally: "Yep, she couldn't even last 2 days without talking to me, much less asking me for a favor...")  Her: "Do you know why my air conditioning isn't working?  It isn't frozen, I checked!"  By this time my curiosity is piqued so I'm wondering what's wrong (she isn't known for doing any sort of regular maintenance on anything, so even though it isn't my job to do these things anymore, I'm more curious about what is broken than I am annoyed at her asking me what's wrong with it).  My curiosity won out.  I go back inside and check, and sure enough, her evaporator coils are frozen solid.  Turns out she was checking the furnace to see if that was frozen, and not the evaporator coils, which were encased in a gigantic block of ice.  There was so much ice it had frozen over the drain hole for the condensate line, so we had to get a bunch of towels to soak up the thawing ice until that condensate drain opening was thawed out to properly drain it.  I left 90 minutes later after getting it working again, at least temporarily.

So, here's a quick test question I'd ask myself from time to time.
The test: Does this sound like the beginning to the story of any relationship you know about?

"Yeah so after like 12 weeks of Working On Her^TM, and her talking about alll her ex boyfriends, and being blown off, eventually she suggests coffee.
It's so-so. But we had sex that night.
So the next day she tells me she's too busy for a relationship, so we don't see eachother for another month.
We get dinner, and she's shockingly rude to the waitress -"
I'll stop there but you know what I mean
She's got red flags, she's got stories and reasons and all this other dumb shit - placing hurdles all along the way.

While I do think men sort of are in charge of bringing a lot of things to the courtship thing, at least in MY experience?
When it works? It's like there's this tractor beam that kicks on.
You guys just WANT eachother to succeed on the date.
You're both sort of willing it into existence.

She wore your favorite color to the first date.
Your joke isn't funny, she laughs anyway.
You get that lump in your throat right before you call out to her for the first time, and she doesn't rib you for it during dinner.
She absolutely fucking roasts you about it after you're together for the first week.


She's not giving you reasons why she can only talk on Monday nights from 8:21pm to 9:14pm or some shit.
She's not saying things like she's "not sure if she can do a relationship".
People don't say things like that to someone they want to be with, they HIDE red flags, not start throwing them.
She's not talking about ex boyfriends. I mean things might come up in passing, but there's not a Chad^TM who lives rent free in her head, that she mentions a lot.


A good sign:
The conversation shouldn't be all the man.
There should/could be healthy gaps. No need to badger her all day brothers, if she likes you, she'll reach back out.
Eventually around 4pm you get one from her that's all,  "Hey, how's your day going? "

When you're emotionally invested in them, and they're in it too?
It's not like pedaling a bike, it's like you're being pulled toward eachother like a gravitational pull.

She probably won't be as verbally bold as you are (the man).
But she might have fun little cues. Wants to hold your hand.
Clings onto your arm.
Asks who your favorite sportsball player was growing up - you know she has no fuckin idea who that is.

Be confident, be honest and don't go TOO fast.
While women are somewhat visual, they're not AS visual.
They need to know us better and know us more before they catch up to us sometimes - particularly if she's beautiful and our brain is vapor-locking.

At least that's the way I look at it.

 

Blame-culture is very important to these people. Once they have their reason to start their bullshit, they do it.
Full production. The intro music plays, in they roll in, here comes the accusations - you being falsely accused, respond.
They that they're losing on the technicals, they go personal, they now remark you seem upset to needle you.
That's how they work.

Circling this here on the blueprint.
THIS specifically is one of the damaged parts assemblies that most needs replacing/inspection on guys who got stuck with a woman like this.

At some point down the line a "normal person" lady MIGHT throw an errant guess and hit you with it.
A guy can't flip back into that mode where he knew his ex was actually beginning the assault on his character, and "fan" on the girl, then bare teeth and bite.


If he can sort of keep that in check and keep reactions proportionate To a normal person's standard, he's doing it right.

If he's stuck in that "fights are normal, and so is defending your whole personhood" culture, problems.




And if I had to guess, outside of her job she's probably kind of a fuck up?
If she can't call her minions to do things for her that she wouldn't do herself, she sort of freaks out?
Yeah.

I'm suuuuuuuuuper fucking lucky that while I know these personality types, I didn't marry one/have a serious relationship with one that had those dynamics.
Fuckin A.




Sad. This is how it goes though.
You had to spend time, and willpower, and effort to prove what you already knew, and to defend your honor.
Think about how much time it took from you.
You'll know your parts assemblies are working right when you can, in the moment in some of these situations, put the boundary down right there the way a "normal" person (not conditioned into tip-toeing around this maniac) would.




They never do.
Apologies are generally a thing they don't do - not for things that matter anyway, even if they're totally wrong.



Circling this on the blueprint. You'll know everything is working when, on a "next girl" the concept of "getting at her" isn't even a passing thought.
Not like, a thought you have and dismiss, but more like a -
"Oh my God, that's right? I used to have moments where I did that? Wow how long ago was that - oh jeeze 2020? Ha!"



So this is the closest thing they have to apologizing basically.
They DO know they screwed up. They do not know how to fix it. They're embarrassed. And because they're emotionally fragile, it's like they've got this small bank account of self esteem.
They can't part with a nickel.
Them fucking up and getting embarrassed like that? is a $100,000 check to them.
It's a big deal.

A lot of times in situations like this, if/when they can, they'll manufacture a reason they have to be mad at you, which means they don't have to say sorry.




Pause here.
Brah. If you can, if you can get all the parts fixed and one day find a new lady?
Get one who you don't ever have to think like this.
One who likes just having you around, even if you goofed on the paperwork or not.

One who wouldn't go 2 days because she wouldn't WANT to. THAT is what closer to normal looks like.
At least I think so.




It's funny. Hot shit Lawyer^TM that's better than everyone, but is constantly confused
Needs all that help from everyone else, basically from the moment she gets up to the moment she goes to sleep.
Doesn't value anyone else like she does herself, but is barely capable of fending for herself.

So for you, "boundaries" could mean things like - If she was just very shitty to you, no she does NOT get your labor/help.
In a normal case/situation, if you got very shitty with someone, and didn't say sorry? They might not speak to you again.
Getting their help?  "Forget that. Fuck you."

Sometimes by "doing _____________ for them", you're hurting them, not helping.


I can do my best, but I think you need some source material
It'll explain a lot.
Go find Dr. Ramani on youtube.

^ My man here hit the nail on the head with everything. I'll post a better reply tomorrow when it isn't 1:30 AM.

Yet you are presumptuous enough to believe all American women are the same.

LOL - this is getting hard to watch. We're trying to get machinist to work on his self-confidence so he can go back and get the barbecue joint chick. It would be really helpful if you could stop slapping him around.

I think I have made it clear that I dont believe that all of anyone, is anything. So apparently I neglected to include the word "most" or "the overwhelming majority" at least once. I did, in other posts, give examples of American women I believe are "good".

It appears as if you are the only one that thinks I believe every single American woman sucks. I do have a mother thats still alive, btw.


But thats cool, you win on technicality.

we still haven't moved on from BBQ joint chick?

damn, bruh.

Brother, he's still in remedial girl-teach, so it's important for him to be able to visualize or else we're gonna lose him. The barbecue joint chick is still one that he can see in his mind, so we've got to keep her alive or else he's going over to the other team.

Please keep in mind, just because someone doesnt engage, it doesnt mean they cant.

Its the internet, there is just no point in trading jabs with someone that clearly is not understanding what I am attempting to convey. ( as I have said before, Im no Ronald Reagan )

damn.

there's no Target, Whole Foods, and/or Trader Joe's nearby for The Machinist^TM to hit on MILFs in unhappy marriages and/or college girls with daddy issues?

I think he said he's from rural east Texas, so he's stuck with Walmart and Affiliated Foods grocery stores. I believe he posted that most of the ones he sees are blimpos. He has a daughter in college and I suggested one time he try to get her to hook him up, but I don't think that ever went anywhere.

Oh, we understand that you're just trying to be gentle with her. You're a true southern gentleman, Bro.

Attached File

I’m from rural southeast Virginia and all we have are Walmart and Food Lion.  And let’s face it: I’m pretty much God’s gift to men.

You are making exemptions for family, most do. Just like most say that other school systems, teachers, etc. are the problem but their child goes to an excellent government school. And it doesn’t really matter if you’re including your daughter or your mama in your “American women are trash” diatribe; you’re not dating them (although I’ll put forth that your attitude will affect your daughter).

My point is that if you are approaching relationships with that attitude, that most or the overwhelming majority are only worth the skin suit they’re wearing, you are setting yourself and all the women up for failure. You’re passing on skin suits that aren’t quite up to snuff and assigning character and motive to people you’ve never met. You’ve taken exception to my words in the last few pages, but I’ve at least given you the benefit of having several months to express your opinions and positions. You’re making snap judgements of these women without even so much as doing that. It doesn’t feel good, does it?

You have spent a good bit of time pontificating about how American women suck, but you flat out refuse to deal with your own baggage in a constructive or healthy way. It’s not that American women suck. It’s that you seem to make a habit of choosing the ones who do, and you won’t figure out why or make an effort to stop. And instead of fixing that, you lash out at the women around you (even if only in your head) who might be willing to give you a chance. Easier to make them ineligible in your mind, then run back to the guys and fuss about how they’re all trash. Combo of abused dog and sour grapes. And you’ll have to break that pattern if you want a decent relationship again.

Make no mistake; I want you to succeed. I don’t like to see anyone hurting. But what you’re doing right now isn’t working. Time to change that up.

This is exactly what I meant with my post.  While a genuine relationship shouldn’t be keeping score, if one were to tally up points, It’d be awful close to 50/50...true balance.  Once upon a time I wanted to ensure that balance while in the actual relationship after it took flight.  I’ve since modified that to requiring it right from the beginning, because as you stated above, it just works when both parties want it.  And to use your term ‘Thirstlord’, this is how I separate myself from them.  Don’t reciprocate in conversation?  I’ll drop off and won’t say anything else.  She gets to wait thinking that she will stick to her 6:1 ratio of actually responding conversationally to the Thirstlord’s advances.  Because that is what she knows.

And therein lies the problem with our modern day woman...so many have become accustomed to the online social crap and the high-concentration of male attention and invitations on the dating apps, that Thirstlord nature is all she knows.  All day, every day is high-volume attention and lovin’ right there on that rectangular screen that’s in front of her nose.  And any man who thinks that after he ‘works on her’ and wins her over, that that nature of hers will retire itself for the sake of long term relationship and marriage, is kidding himself.  

I don’t believe Machinist is as bad as he’s being made out to be.  He may still have some sour grapes, as do I and many of us still do in one way or another.  We all can improve in areas.  But I also think he’s learned the hard way of the above paragraph - like I have too - it’s almost a losing battle with the modern day American woman.  He’s lamenting about it.  But I also believe that the instinct of that abused dog still longs for warm embrace and affection from a human rather than pain.  He knows it’s possible, but just hasn’t experienced it.  Same with me.

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I think this is one of those things I think the younger guys should really learn - "if you stop pedaling the bike, does the conversation end?"
If she isn't interested in continuing the conversation, she proooobably isn't interested in you.




So I do think the cultural rot is deep - and worse in darker blue areas.
But I do think the best course of action for men? Hurdle them. Don't even look.
When you see the profile,
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I think a lot of (particularly younger) guys check out when they see women act bratty ^ like this, and they get "rewarded" with more male attention because she's attractive enough and young.
They then figure it's going to work out for her.

The other day on a dating app I saw one of the "pretty/popular girls" from highschool. She looks 10 years older than she is, she's still single, she's still got the same attitude.
TBH I felt bad.
To me in my mind, life is a process of revising yourself, working on things, fixing things that need fixing. If you're lucky, over time you become a better person - and you watch others do the same.
I was hoping she'd grow out of a few things for her own sake - I'm not interested in her, but shit just because she was a brat at times as a young person shouldn't doom her for the rest of her life.

But she's probably going to age out of having children, if she wanted them that's a big ouch. In her individual case, her options are not what they once were.
I think if a lot of younger guys knew "no, it often DOESN'T work out for these girls, and sometimes it gets sad to watch" they would relax.

In the return of the male opinion to dating/mating/relationship dynamics, where we spend a lot of time talking about SMV and dating? I think we're missing part of the picture.
IMHO the SMV might look like the left/right scale, but it needs the up and down component for "marriageability".

We talk about SMV and think these girls who are 9/10s will have it easy.
But if you add the marriageability factor, the whole picture changes.

A woman who is "only a 7/10" in terms of her SMV, but who is a 10/10 marriage-worthiness?
The options she DOES have, she can basically marry and stay married to most of them.

A woman that's a 10/10 and a 1/10, will have no shortage of dating options, but no men want to marry/stay with her.
No, it doesn't always work out for them.





But what if that's what we're here for?
Maleness is the ability to bend the world to your will, to tame the savage wilderness, to beat back the other tribe, all that good stuff.

Our ability to keep cool, go back out there, and make the best of bleak odds of survival is what women have been trying to select in us since the beginning.
It's the point of the big muscles, the point of mastering spear throwing - "Look what I can do _________ that will help us/the tribe/ you/our offspring__ in the world."


Saying "I can't do it, so I won't try" might as well translate into cavewoman-ese as, "It too cold, Grug not hunt today, or tomorrow, or ever again. Sorry."
She's hard-wired to peace it.

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She is hard-wired to peace it, but every passing day is simultaneously getting re-wired to ‘rotate’ to whoever is groveling and salivating towards her the most *today*, and that can even depend on her time of the month too...

For me, it doesn’t mean I have checked-out completely.  For me, i ‘went my own way’ a long time ago, knowing exactly what I was looking for.  As I have grown and evolved, so has what I am looking for...now knowing even more exactly-what-I-am-looking for.  At the same time, what is out there in the world is less and less, further and further from what I am looking for.  

Seek and ye shall find it... nope.
Get out and live your best life being you and the women will flock to you...nope.
Be in shape! Have abs!  Blah blah blah... They’ll flock to you!...nope.

And before anyone responds, I’m not saying it’s as simple as a check in the box system.  But there is some data nonetheless showing there are outliers...

While there are women that may be interested/flock, and they want ‘a real man’, they are conditioned for the Thirstlord.  Not all men are thirstlords.  And I have my filter set too... again, you can tell a whole lot about who someone is in life by how they drive, and how they train.  And when the filter is set to “team mate” material instead of just “girlfriend/wife” material, nothing has been making it through the filter - that is actually available.

It’s hard to bend the will of the world into providing that good woman, and the opportunity - and ‘right timing’.  If it could be built/designed/repaired, I’d have already had mine.

I believe a good woman exists.  I’ve seen it.  I keep my eyes open, but have yet to find one for myself that s also a good fit for me.  A couple of tricks, though, from life/God/the universe (depending on which you subscribe to).  But in the words of the great philosopher Metallica: “then it comes to be, that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel...was just a freight train coming your way...”

Money helps.

1) Not every girl is on social media.
2) A bunch of them are so grossed out by the guys in their DMs that they actually leave.
My Ex girlfriend was one. This is not theoretical.

Not every woman on social media is farming male attention. The girl posting tushy shots is.
The girl on Tiktok twerking is.
The girl posting photos of what she cooked, and she's pretty clothed in her selfies, isn't.
And that girl likely isn't getting hordes of messages. Particularly over 30.



Right, so how did I go from literally the butt end of jokes at one point in my life, to having (mortal but good) choices?
No go ahead.
I'm asking for an explanation.




That's not 100% of women, and thank god it isn't.
It's not.   Not even with tiktok, IG, hollywood, and the MSM cranking out nihilism 24 hours a day. They didn't get all of them.

If there's one last good one left, I'll find her. I suspect there's more than one, which means maybe some friends of mine are in luck.



And so - you control the things you CAN control.
You get as many things right as you can, and stay that way, until you get a chance to go to the superbowl. And when/if that day comes, you do your best.
It can take years, sure.
That's what a real pursuit is.



I fuckin love Metallica.

But I'm going to throw open the hood and try some bolts that look rusted.
If you can't find ANYONE who is a good fit, then perhaps consider this.
Can you change things about yourself, or how you view other people, so that you can better integrate with those people?

It does, but has limits


Here's something that happens in the matchmaking world.
5'5" man, angry little manlet, total dadbod, balding, makes good money though. 5/10 lookswise.
WANTS the slim model girl that's a 9-10.

Here's the problem: He's an asshole, she's a 9.
If he doesn't have like BIG Money, and he's not famous or anything?
He's just some jerk with a ~$370k 1% income? She starts to think his attitude and his spare tummy aren't worth it.
A woman that pretty has had very attractive men approach her, her whole life. She's still 29 years old. Know who knows what kind of options a pretty lady has?
She does.
This little jackass across the table and his Mercedes aren't a good deal for her, she'll walk.

Money helps, but there are limits