My '82 Mercedes-Benz 240D did the quarter mile faster than it did 0-60.

No manufacturers fleet is averaging 35 to 40.

$$$$$$$

Have you priced a truck in the last 10 years?  All of that “tech” ain’t free.

Have you priced an SUV or a pick up lately?

Millions of tree hugging liberal loons suddenly cried out in unison.

Go buy a Prius then and stay the fuck out of the passing lane.

A good move for a slightly freer market.

I will use your reply to "reply all" to those that quoted me. 

1.  I literally said "this isn't going to ruin my life".  Meaning, I can take this or leave this.  My hope is that a push towards higher mpg is a goal of every car company.  I hope this removal of this regulation doesn't slow or diminish that goal.  That's all I'm saying.  

2.  Every person here that quote me talked about the markets.  I'm 110% for markets.  But it works both ways in this argument - if the car companies have to meet a standard of 50 mpg (for example) and the car costs $100k...they will only offer that vehicle if people buy it.  How many people are going to be market for a 100k car?  If the market won't allow it, it won't be offered and the car companies will be forced to do something to lower the price to a level that the market will allow.  (Reality right now is though...the market is not rejecting $60k trucks/SUVs...so it's not like those fuel economy standards are ruining the market.  How many 8mpg one ton trucks are they gonna sell at the price it's gonna cost to produce + standard mark up?)

With that people don't always have the ability to vote with their dollars if the market doesn't produce what they want.  It's not like someone can say "hey, I see a gap in the car industry.  I'm going to start my own car company to fill that gap".  That's an extremely difficult thing to do.  Not unlike cell phones.  If you're unhappy with ATT and Verizon and T-Mobile and...the others...what choices do you have that the free market can genuinely fix?  The infrastructure needed to meet the consumer demands are substantial which would make actual market competition very difficult/near impossible.  So the consumer may have no choice but to purchase a product and be unhappy.  They are, a lot of times, at the mercy of the manufacturers.  The ability to "vote with dollars" on something like fuel economy is hard, almost by design.  Toyota has the Prius that gets 50mpg.  Awesome.  If the Prius fits your needs, there's your car.  But what if you need a truck?  Well the only option would be the 15mpg Tundra.  I want 50mpg...but I need a truck for various reasons.  How can I "vote with my dollars"?  Me having to purchase the 15mpg Tundra because I need a truck doesn't mean there isn't a demand for a 50mpg truck to fill that gap.   Toyota may not WANT to produce a 50mpg Tundra for fear of ruining sales of other product lines. 

Now, looking at both sides of that argument - perhaps Toyota could indeed do a 50mpg truck but, like you said, it may drive costs up to $120k.  Who's gonna buy that?  Well the market may or may not "allow for it".  If people want 50mpg and the .gov says you have to give that but people won't pay $120k...then it's Toyota job to figure out how to lower the costs to a price point that the market will tolerate.  

Again, I'm not heartbroken over this.  I'm not going to go out and protest.  This is a win for the car companies and the markets.  You won't get a different opinion other than that from me.  But when I think about where I would like to see cars go...better fuel economy is up there.  And that's for MY dollars not having to keep tossing them away at the gas pump.  My "iffy-ness" on this comes with the question of "will car companies continue to pursue better fuel economy".  I believe they should and I hope the market steers them in that direction. 

Absurd increases in vehicle costs, coupled with stupid, inconvenient, and/or unreliable design features aimed at attempting to meet unrealistic standards.

Have you noticed the "OMG, new trucks are too expensive!!!111" thread we've had every week for the last 5 years?

This is one of those things that has fucked everyday Americans every bit as much as .gov meddling in toilet and washing machine design, but a lot of people aren't familiar enough with vehicles to understand what is up.

This is a big fucking deal.

This. Terrain/Equinox have an issue with the high pressure fuel pump required for DI introducing gas into the oil system which prematurely wears the timing chains. Multi thousand dollar repair to replace the timing chains cam phasers, etc. I'm sure there's many other anecdotes of complicated systems causing expensive repairs for the end user in the name of efficiency.

Wow, arfcom has a lot of progressive members.

"what's so bad about higher fuel economy?"

go be progressive somewhere else.

The federal government should have absolutely nothing to do with what you shoot, drive, wear, drink, eat, smoke, how you live, etc.  It is tragic that so many have gone so far away from the Constitution.

Higher acquisition cost, reduced safety, lower quality, smaller vehicles, unattainable goal. EPA's target would have us driving Yugos powered by two cylinder Diesels. Clean Diesels of course.

Only big corporations get the MAGA.  If that happens to align with the notion of less govt and winning then they take credit.  If not then oh well, you don't want the gun grabbing dems in there do you?

Long overdue. The EPA is destroying the auto industry as well as off highway equipment

I remember Smog alerts here in LA.



The manufacturer would not of pushed for cleaning burning cars.

Remember. There were 49 state cars.
And then California cars.

Now get rid of the ethanol requirement too while they're at it.

I hope it goes back to 49 state and CA cars.  Why should I pay for CAs idiocy.

Bingo!

Just a reminder that vehicles are getting heavier and bigger, not smaller and lighter.

Everyone keeps saying smaller, lighter vehicles.

If you're talking about a smaller class of vehicle becoming the modal form of transport, it's most likely because America cottoned on to the fact that two tonne land yachts with giant v8 engines that still somehow made no power were complete and utter shit.

Jeremy Clarkson / Grand Tour talking about the best selling vehicle in America, the F-150:

Fuel economy ranked 28th on the buyer’s list of priorities lol

On another note I remember the days of 49-state vehicles, specifically motorcycles. I had a CBR600F3 Cali model (stolen) and then the same bike in a Michigan model.

They had different cams and then some other minor differences.

I have to giggle when I read people talking about 100% effeniency with ICE.  Mercedes Formula 1 teams have just now hit what they consider 50% effeniency. The amount of engineering associated with that will trickle down to the consumer cars, but is so far away from being put to use it's laughable.  The cost of it is in the millions to design and actually produce just for a season of racing.  Of which they only get to use 3 engines per season w/o penalty.

I think it's absolutely fantastic that these targets are getting rolled back.  Sure, it could be possible in the future, but we are so far away from this being a reality on cars that the everyday person can purchase.

CAFE was great when it started but like all government agencies, has ballooned to the point of near uselessness.  Trying to justify it's continued existence.

Cry me a river.

If I don't burn them, the dinosaurs died for nothing.

Not reading all 6 pages to say MAGA!

Good!!
Give me a better price and more dependable vehicle that's what matters to me.
MPGs is great but not as important.

I saw yesterday that Volkswagen had 300,000 used diesel Vehicles parked on Lots ready for sale just waiting for EPA regulations.

Yes

I don’t want to be driving around in a plastic pickup with a turbo charged 4 cylinder that shuts off at every stop sign in ten years. Let people decide what they want via the market and keep the EPA the hell out of it.

All I see are the costs of vehicles increasing yearly to keep up with ever restricted government mandates. Driving consumers ever deeper into debt. Go buy a hybrid if you like. I’ll choose not to.

I suspect this is untrue.
They really do hold a TON of potential, over IC cars.
There are so many fewer moving parts and less friction and heat wastes.
It's just a matter of time for the MARKET to get us there, and FBHO for pushing this on us (and his predecessors)

They’ll build some models for America and some for California.

All one needs as an example of what happens when the government mandates to the auto makers is to look at the time period from 1973 to roughly the early 90s.

I was looking forward to a full sized 4X4 truck that got 50 plus on the highway.

And they would cost $80k and require weekly repair of overly complex EGR systems.

Nationwide the grid is already in the shitters.  Now add another billion watts of load every day, sure it's gonna work out just fine.

When was the last new power plant built in California?

What's paying for the hundreds of thousands charging stations and how long it's going to take?

Be real.

To do that, they would have to relax safety standards.  New cars are made to certain standards which is why they are heavier and more expensive.  And there is nothing to say that if the production costs go down because of lessened burden on the manufacturer that the savings will be passed on to the consumer.

Because of California I have to use gas cans that spill more gas on the ground than makes its way in the tank. Fuck California, they can all choke to death on smog and we’d be better for it.

In 1970 the market gave you this


And by 1972 the government killed it because it was too awesome and gave you this neutered beta piece of shit and you are happy about that?

Consumer freedom.  Maybe my time value of money puts more of a premium on initial cost than it does on fuel cost.  Same with safety mandates.  Let me get the car features I want, not ones that affluent bureaucrats want.

I'm going to be in them minority here, but demanding fuel economy standards have made vehicles better than ever before.

You were looking forward to something that won't ever happen then.

They have also driven prices through the roof and greatly increased the complexity and decreased the reliability  of the internal combustion engine.   This standard was not possible by 2025, and was a blatant attempt to drive us all into hybrids and electric cars, which aren't ready for prime time yet.  Fuck the federal government and their mandates.  Show me where they derive the power to make them.

Somebody is going to decide to clean house in 49 States and leave everybody else to fight over California’s market share.

Options in the marketplace. I would like a V-8 in my large SUV and Ford no longer offers a V-8. Thanks EPA. I don't want all cars to end up with the same shape due to the EPA and NHTSA.

How exactly is relying on oil, which is the most cost effective fuel we have, is a bad thing? Using numbers, if possible.

The drive for higher fuel mileage has led to increased use of aluminum, carbon fiber, and plastic - yes or no?

Those things all cost more than steel to make a vehicle - yes or no?

The energy to operate them.  Go to a machine ship that builds engines and try to spin an installed cam by hand ....

So then buy one that gets 50MPG.

Freedom  how does it work?