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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:01:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure you can law school exam hypotheticals where you could plug someone hopping over a barricade-what if there are fifteen guys climbing up behind her, what if it's just me and my little children cowering in terror in front of elderly Ruth Bader Ginsberg so I snatch a revolver I know a judge keeps in his desk and fire into the crowd-pew pew! But we saw a video and it was just one apparently unarmed woman that he could have punched into next week. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Depends, would they and other officers in the same situation be reasonable in believing you were going to cause serious bodily injury to themselves or a third party? Would I shoot, probably not. Are there scenarios where that is a justified shoot? Yes All use of force incidents are scrutinized under various case law but it boils down to a couple things, one, these incidents are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving. Officers do not after the advantage of hindsight so when scrutinizing the outcome, neither do we. But we saw a video and it was just one apparently unarmed woman that he could have punched into next week. And again, although video is useful, it’s already been ruled that we have to factor in how the officer felt at that time, his observations, basically human physiological response under stress, etc |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:01:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Colorado law says if someone makes illegal entry into my home and I feel they may do me harm, no matter how slight, deadly force is authorized. Now add that to a secure building, housing our nations government. Like it or not, I’d have a very hard time calling it unjustified and guess what, it was indeed deemed justified. Not evil, just logical. Take a step back from your anger and look at the situation through emotionless lenses. 
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:04:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She kept crawling through a window after someone with a gun on the inside told her to stop. Same thing that would happen at my house. She committed suicide. BS ...you are fabricating. Byrd hid off to the side and waited quietly to kill. She also had two LEOs with her and they drew in her defense. You aren't close to accurate. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:05:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Apparently you're not aware there were two police officers standing right next to her when she was shot and they did nothing to stop her. Seems they didn't think she was a threat of any kind to anybody.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:08:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Same old same old.
The thugs stick together, until they need a scapegoat or sacrificial lamb. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:08:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh so you are in the wrong line of work then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not up to me, that determination has been made Ah, got you before the edit. I’ll gladly keep my guns thank you. It’s hard to work without them Oh so you are in the wrong line of work then. By his attitude it sounds like he’s in the exact right line of work. 
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:09:22 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:10:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends, would they and other officers in the same situation be reasonable in believing you were going to cause serious bodily injury to themselves or a third party? Would I shoot, probably not. Are there scenarios where that is a justified shoot? Yes All use of force incidents are scrutinized under various case law but it boils down to a couple things, one, these incidents are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving. Officers do not have the advantage of hindsight so when scrutinizing the outcome, neither do we. . So here we had a 100 pound unarmed female face to face with a 200 pound male. He could have easily grabbed her and threw her to the ground and placed her in handcuffs. Or pushed her back through the window as she was still perched on the window sill when he murdered her. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:11:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Deadly force was unmerited.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:12:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe there is something called "Disparity of Force" : It means that you can lawfully use force in self-defense reasonably proportionate to the threat of force you face. . So here we had a 100 pound unarmed female face to face with a 200 pound male. He could have easily grabbed her and threw her to the ground and placed her in handcuffs. Or pushed her back through the window as she was still perched on the window sill when he murdered her. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Depends, would they and other officers in the same situation be reasonable in believing you were going to cause serious bodily injury to themselves or a third party? Would I shoot, probably not. Are there scenarios where that is a justified shoot? Yes All use of force incidents are scrutinized under various case law but it boils down to a couple things, one, these incidents are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving. Officers do not have the advantage of hindsight so when scrutinizing the outcome, neither do we. . So here we had a 100 pound unarmed female face to face with a 200 pound male. He could have easily grabbed her and threw her to the ground and placed her in handcuffs. Or pushed her back through the window as she was still perched on the window sill when he murdered her. As you say, from comfort, with hindsight to the situation that he simply did not have. And again, it’s not murder if it’s justified |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:13:00 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She kept crawling through a window after someone with a gun on the inside told her to stop. Same thing that would happen at my house. She committed suicide. join date = check posts = check |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:14:06 AM EDT
[#12]
This is a useful thread - I got two clicks out of it.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:16:05 AM EDT
[#13]
I bet those against Ashli weren't even there. Go practice asexual reproduction.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:18:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Some people here (CO guy and CA guy come to mind - no surprise on either) are not our friends or of our patriotic mindset
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:18:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As you say, from comfort, with hindsight to the situation that he simply did not have. And again, it’s not murder if it’s justified He wasn't facing any immediate lethal force threat, not even a threat of physical violence, just trespassing. It was not justified under any established use of force. If you have to insert political bias to justify it. Then its not justified. Corruption is not justified. Do you think corruption supercedes all? |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:19:28 AM EDT
[#16]
[Deleted]
please stop the name calling -Aimless |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:20:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote History |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:21:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As you say, from comfort, with hindsight to the situation that he simply did not have. And again, it’s not murder if it’s justified Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Depends, would they and other officers in the same situation be reasonable in believing you were going to cause serious bodily injury to themselves or a third party? Would I shoot, probably not. Are there scenarios where that is a justified shoot? Yes All use of force incidents are scrutinized under various case law but it boils down to a couple things, one, these incidents are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving. Officers do not have the advantage of hindsight so when scrutinizing the outcome, neither do we. . So here we had a 100 pound unarmed female face to face with a 200 pound male. He could have easily grabbed her and threw her to the ground and placed her in handcuffs. Or pushed her back through the window as she was still perched on the window sill when he murdered her. As you say, from comfort, with hindsight to the situation that he simply did not have. And again, it’s not murder if it’s justified A pussy shot an unarmed woman. I wonder if he’s smart enough to be embarrassed. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:21:46 AM EDT
[#19]
This is one of those litmus tests that shows how small the pro-insurrection crowd is. Not many people think she was murdered. Even those who think she didn't need to be shot.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:25:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is one of those litmus tests that shows how small the pro-insurrection crowd is. Not many people think she was murdered. Even those who think she didn't need to be shot. Those people are uninformed or evil. Do you do anything but gaslight? |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:26:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re a lawyer, presumably a decent one. If he’s cleared of any wrong doing what does it make the shooting, legally justified or unjustified? Sorry but she made poor decisions and paid the ultimate price. Again, as in the example I gave there does not always have to be risk to life to justify deadly force. Wether we like it or not, the government has always had “lines in the sand” where if they’re crossed safeties come off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good thing your opinion matters for exactly zilch in legal proceedings. As others have posted, even in my home, let alone a government building, that's a good shoot all day long. If she'd been some unarmed black girl with. Che Guevara shirt on that cops would be in a cell. He only got a pass because is suited the political goals of Biden and the DOJ to have her killed. There wasn't any risk to life, what lethal force justification would you use for this? You’re a lawyer, presumably a decent one. If he’s cleared of any wrong doing what does it make the shooting, legally justified or unjustified? Sorry but she made poor decisions and paid the ultimate price. Again, as in the example I gave there does not always have to be risk to life to justify deadly force. Wether we like it or not, the government has always had “lines in the sand” where if they’re crossed safeties come off. OJ Simpson got acquitted, does that mean he didn’t do it? |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:28:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Title should say, "Feds housed a cowardly little bitch..."
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:29:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OJ Simpson got acquitted, does that mean he didn’t do it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good thing your opinion matters for exactly zilch in legal proceedings. As others have posted, even in my home, let alone a government building, that's a good shoot all day long. If she'd been some unarmed black girl with. Che Guevara shirt on that cops would be in a cell. He only got a pass because is suited the political goals of Biden and the DOJ to have her killed. There wasn't any risk to life, what lethal force justification would you use for this? You’re a lawyer, presumably a decent one. If he’s cleared of any wrong doing what does it make the shooting, legally justified or unjustified? Sorry but she made poor decisions and paid the ultimate price. Again, as in the example I gave there does not always have to be risk to life to justify deadly force. Wether we like it or not, the government has always had “lines in the sand” where if they’re crossed safeties come off. OJ Simpson got acquitted, does that mean he didn’t do it? Nope, simply means his legal team was able to show reasonable doubt and poked holes in the prosecution. This is different from not even facing charges. This was a homicide investigation that was ruled justified. Justified homicide is still homicide. He commuted the act but was not charged for it. That’s apples to oranges but I think you know that |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:29:54 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is one of those litmus tests that shows how small the pro-insurrection crowd is. Not many people think she was murdered. Even those who think she didn't need to be shot. Unarmed insurrections are my favorite! You too, obviously. Please stay inside the velvet ropes, thank you. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:32:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:33:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is one of those litmus tests that shows how small the pro-insurrection crowd is. Not many people think she was murdered. Even those who think she didn't need to be shot. OK, glowie |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:33:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is one of those litmus tests that shows how small the pro-insurrection crowd is. Not many people think she was murdered. Even those who think she didn't need to be shot. If the crowd was really that small your gaslighting would be unnecessary. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:34:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And again, although video is useful, it’s already been ruled that we have to factor in how the officer felt at that time, his observations, basically human physiological response under stress, etc I had no idea that sand in one's vagina justified shooting. Maybe PMSing too? |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:35:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? It should be. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:36:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Of course they did.
He is their Kyle. "The One" |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:36:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? In my opinion, yes. I’d be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot and all illegals coming across our southern border should be killed, armed or not, yet this one ruffles feathers? This site interjects politics into far too much. If Ashli had been Antifa this place would be sheering it on. Try consistency vs hypocrisy. I vote straight R typically and will continue to do so, but I am also able to live without politics interjecting itself into every day to day activity or decision I make. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:41:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my opinion, yes. I’d be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? In my opinion, yes. I’d be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot? Excellent! Belt-fed on the Bearcat, mowing them down as they exit the store! I knew we could count on you! |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:45:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Excellent! Belt-fed on the Bearcat, mowing them down as they exit the store! I knew we could count on you! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? In my opinion, yes. I’d be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot? Excellent! Belt-fed on the Bearcat, mowing them down as they exit the store! I knew we could count on you! Yes because that’s exactly what I said |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:48:13 AM EDT
[#34]
The only things Ashli Babbit was there to steal was the pussy officer's self-respect and dignity. Unfortunately, she had to give her life to take it. She's and those like her are worth more than a million of those MFers.
btw she wasn't stealing, didn't state as such and had no property in her possession. So back up a bit and read your own apples to oranges post. @kiltakaze |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:53:20 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes because that’s exactly what I said Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? In my opinion, yes. I’d be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot? Excellent! Belt-fed on the Bearcat, mowing them down as they exit the store! I knew we could count on you! Yes because that’s exactly what I said Oh, have I mischaracterized your position on looters? My apologies. Please state your preference(s) when shooting looters. Thank you. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:54:11 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And again, although video is useful, it's already been ruled that we have to factor in how the officer felt at that time, his observations, basically human physiological response under stress, etc She was standing less than 6ft from cops who didn't view her as a threat or need to get murdered. But the guy hiding down the hallway did. He either has bad judgment that isn't in line with other professionals in his field or he made a bad decision. You can't logically arrive at any other conclusion given the proximity of risk to the officers next to her. Stop defending garbage in your career field, it's a bad look. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:57:35 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a useful thread - I got two clicks out of it. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 1:58:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only things Ashli Babbit was there to steal was the pussy officer's self-respect and dignity. Unfortunately, she had to give her life to take it. She's and those like her are worth more than a million of those MFers. btw she wasn't stealing, didn't state as such and had no property in her possession. So back up a bit and read your own apples to oranges post. @kiltakaze Where did I mention anything about her stealing? |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:01:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should take that down before posters go after you for implying that Byrd was justified in his actions and is being falsely accused of murder. Quote HistoryQuoted: You should take that down before posters go after you for implying that Byrd was justified in his actions and is being falsely accused of murder.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:05:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed  Wow.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:14:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Far, far better than that cowardly PoS deserved.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:32:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No he was not cleared by a credible body. There wasn't even a grand jury or investigation. They didn't even do an investigation. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:34:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe there is something called "Disparity of Force" : It means that you can lawfully use force in self-defense reasonably proportionate to the threat of force you face. . So here we had a 100 pound unarmed female face to face with a 200 pound male. He could have easily grabbed her and threw her to the ground and placed her in handcuffs. Or pushed her back through the window as she was still perched on the window sill when he murdered her. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Depends, would they and other officers in the same situation be reasonable in believing you were going to cause serious bodily injury to themselves or a third party? Would I shoot, probably not. Are there scenarios where that is a justified shoot? Yes All use of force incidents are scrutinized under various case law but it boils down to a couple things, one, these incidents are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving. Officers do not have the advantage of hindsight so when scrutinizing the outcome, neither do we. . So here we had a 100 pound unarmed female face to face with a 200 pound male. He could have easily grabbed her and threw her to the ground and placed her in handcuffs. Or pushed her back through the window as she was still perched on the window sill when he murdered her. Valid point, disparity of force. If she was by herself I would be swayed to say it was disproportionate. Breaking through a barricade with a mob and suddenly the parity equation changes when you're charged with protecting a location and the people there. And when you are breaking down barricades with a large group of people, it is a mob. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:35:20 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my opinion, yes. I'd be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot and all illegals coming across our southern border should be killed, armed or not, yet this one ruffles feathers? This site interjects politics into far too much. If Ashli had been Antifa this place would be sheering it on. Try consistency vs hypocrisy. I vote straight R typically and will continue to do so, but I am also able to live without politics interjecting itself into every day to day activity or decision I make. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Last I heard he was cleared, making it justified whether you like it or not. I will never understand why this site gets their panties in a twist over this particular shooting. It was stupid on her part and her own actions got her killed So it's fully justified to shoot looters who break into stores? right? In my opinion, yes. I'd be hard pressed to charge that were it to happen in my AO Is this the same GD that frequently opines that all thieves should be shot and all illegals coming across our southern border should be killed, armed or not, yet this one ruffles feathers? This site interjects politics into far too much. If Ashli had been Antifa this place would be sheering it on. Try consistency vs hypocrisy. I vote straight R typically and will continue to do so, but I am also able to live without politics interjecting itself into every day to day activity or decision I make. Classic what about it response. To quoque. https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/420588-second-round-of-capitol-protests-demand-climate-change-action/ Let me know when a left wing protestor who takes over the speaker's office gets shot let alone actually charged  |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:36:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She kept crawling through a window after someone with a gun on the inside told her to stop. Same thing that would happen at my house. She committed suicide. 
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:45:57 AM EDT
[#46]
I’m not going to quote any particular poster(s) in this thread to avoid violating the CoC, but there are some real shitbagS in GD these days.
Did she break the law? Yes! Should she have been arrested? Yes! Should she have been MURDERED. NO! Apparently the officers behind her with M4s and kitted out didn’t feel the need to shoot her. Much less advance from cover to take a kill shot. But hey, this is America and people are entitled to their despotic opinions. Somehow firebombing a federal court house with people in it doesn’t justify lethal force, but one person with her hands shown to be clear of weapons and climbing through a window in a defenseless co diction warrants being executed. Even on White House grounds they first attempt to subdue an intruder before opening fire at POINT BLANK range! Again, she broke the law. She should have been arrested and given her day in court. If she was a real threat, acting violently, the officers behind her with select fire weapons and in body armor could have handled it. Make whatever excuses you want, you’re full of shit. That’s directed to no person in particular, but if you feel the need to respond to the contrary well I guess it hit home. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:48:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Yes, if the threat is real let the police coming handle it. They know better than you if it is real or not.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:50:33 AM EDT
[#48]
Maybe that rumor that Lon Horuchi is living on a military base has some truth to it.
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:51:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, simply means his legal team was able to show reasonable doubt and poked holes in the prosecution. This is different from not even facing charges. This was a homicide investigation that was ruled justified. Justified homicide is still homicide. He commuted the act but was not charged for it. That’s apples to oranges but I think you know that Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good thing your opinion matters for exactly zilch in legal proceedings. As others have posted, even in my home, let alone a government building, that's a good shoot all day long. If she'd been some unarmed black girl with. Che Guevara shirt on that cops would be in a cell. He only got a pass because is suited the political goals of Biden and the DOJ to have her killed. There wasn't any risk to life, what lethal force justification would you use for this? You’re a lawyer, presumably a decent one. If he’s cleared of any wrong doing what does it make the shooting, legally justified or unjustified? Sorry but she made poor decisions and paid the ultimate price. Again, as in the example I gave there does not always have to be risk to life to justify deadly force. Wether we like it or not, the government has always had “lines in the sand” where if they’re crossed safeties come off. OJ Simpson got acquitted, does that mean he didn’t do it? Nope, simply means his legal team was able to show reasonable doubt and poked holes in the prosecution. This is different from not even facing charges. This was a homicide investigation that was ruled justified. Justified homicide is still homicide. He commuted the act but was not charged for it. That’s apples to oranges but I think you know that Our man committed murder in our name, we investigated our man and found he did nothing wrong. Should have sent it to a Grand Jury and allowed an impartial jury of citizens to decide whether to indict. And if so then give him his day in court. If what you say is so he would have either been no billed or found not guilty at trial. You see, the issue is there was nothing more than a defacto absolution from Pope Pelosi. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 2:54:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Judicial Watch is the shit Good explanation with incredible facts! Thank you for your valuable input! |
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