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Posted: 4/30/2014 4:53:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
/quote] Don't ever believe that a government tax or fee or toll is temporary. When the Mackinac Bridge was built by the State of Michigan in the late 1950s to connect the state's two peninsulas, the bridge toll was supposed to be temporary, in place until the construction bonds were paid off. Guess what? The tolls are not only still there, but have been increased multiple times. A politician never voluntarily gives up a revenue stream, because money coming into the government is money that they can control to buy votes. It is or it isn't. The Tri-State Tollway and others are the same way. Voters were promised that the booths would come down after the bonds were paid. Still there. Meanwhile, in Kentucky, according to Google, I-65 used to be the "Kentucky Turnpike" but is no longer. The tolls were removed years ago. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 4:55:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so forcing higher mpg thus lowering the tax revenue you use for the roads was a bad idea? That's not the reason for the "shortfall" in money for maintenance. Gas tax revenue is diverted to pay for public transportation, bicycle paths and various and sundry other projects favored by members of Congress. If the gas tax revenue was used only for road construction and maintenance there would be enough |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 4:56:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Interstate Hwy system can't raise enough money even with 18.4 cents per gallon in federal fuel taxes to fix itself so now the regime is proposing allowing states to turn Interstates into toll roads. Can't make link hot. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html Illinois already does it. Has been forever. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:01:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Here is what will happen:
1. States will erect toll system. 2. Rights/lease to toll system will be sold to some company for xxxx amount of money. 3. States will spend the entire amount of money in 1 year not on roads, but on balancing state budget, FSA stuff, pensions, etc. 4. States will be broke again 5. States will increase gas tax and fees to pay for the roads 6. Go back to step #3 |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:03:50 AM EDT
[#5]
I foresee the use of steel blanks to be on the rise
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:06:53 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2+2=4, but not for the people in our Federal Government. Before it's all said and done, you will be taxed by the miles you drive + pay the fuel tax. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so forcing higher mpg thus lowering the tax revenue you use for the roads was a bad idea? 2+2=4, but not for the people in our Federal Government. Before it's all said and done, you will be taxed by the miles you drive + pay the fuel tax. Welcome to my world. OTR driver. 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:08:30 AM EDT
[#7]
We're already paying for the goddamn roads.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:12:22 AM EDT
[#8]
So what happens when we're taxed to the point where there is nothing left to tax? How will the government get it's spending money? How will the economy function? Oh yeah, it wont
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:15:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what happens when we're taxed to the point where there is nothing left to tax? How will the government get it's spending money? How will the economy function? Oh yeah, it wont George Bush's fault. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:17:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Also drive or not you will be paying for these tolls.
I work for a large trucking company and we have many dedicated accounts with companies like Target, Lowes, HD, Family Dollar, Toy R US, Walmart etc.... Our tolls are passed thru 100% to these companies. If their weekly transportation costs go up so will the flowers, hammers, light bulbs and everything else you buy at these places. Fuel Surcharge and tolls are the 2 100% pass thru costs from the trucking company to the shippers. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:17:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Ks ain't perfect but the toll roads we do have raise some revenue that is shockingly, used to improve roads! It's the fat fuck politicians fed and state that do not spend road money on roads.
It's a slush fund in some places. All road taxes need to be mandated for roads only. The fed portion goes to fill the gap in critical areas ( high volume or remote vital areas) |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:19:55 AM EDT
[#12]
They could switch to a per mile tax and charge 87 times per mile than what is necessary to maintain the roads and they still would not have enough money to maintain the roads. That is the underlining problem that needs to be fixed. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:21:20 AM EDT
[#13]
The Feds can't even maintain the roads...why do we keep them around again?
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:26:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only place I know of that actually removed them was Connecticut with the I-95 tolls. And they were a fucking nightmare when they were there. This is not about tracking. As already noted, that's easy enough to accomplish under the guise of a study. Given the dishonest nature of government in all its forms here, I'd expect them to just do it illegally and deny it when they got caught. This is about money. I don't know what percentage of federal and state highway taxes actually get spent on roads. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's over sixty percent. If they want to spend more money on highways, IMO they should clean up their act and use that money first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The ones that get me are the "Parkway" connector roads. They are usually built on the premise to connect Road A to Road B to help with local traffic when all they really do is open up more land for development. They are usually built with a attendant "temporary" increase in local taxes that never goes away. IMHO those roads should be made toll roads from the get-go. Free roads for developers is all they amount to.  Don't ever believe that a government tax or fee or toll is temporary. When the Mackinac Bridge was built by the State of Michigan in the late 1950s to connect the state's two peninsulas, the bridge toll was supposed to be temporary, in place until the construction bonds were paid off. Guess what? The tolls are not only still there, but have been increased multiple times. A politician never voluntarily gives up a revenue stream, because money coming into the government is money that they can control to buy votes. The only place I know of that actually removed them was Connecticut with the I-95 tolls. And they were a fucking nightmare when they were there. This is not about tracking. As already noted, that's easy enough to accomplish under the guise of a study. Given the dishonest nature of government in all its forms here, I'd expect them to just do it illegally and deny it when they got caught. This is about money. I don't know what percentage of federal and state highway taxes actually get spent on roads. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's over sixty percent. If they want to spend more money on highways, IMO they should clean up their act and use that money first. Arfcom has actually taught me something......Get Both. Money and Tracking Information-win win for .gov. But why would they want to know where I go all the time.....? 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:40:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The capitolist side of me says this is not a bad thing IF the state buys the interstate system and privitizes it so the .fedgov is hands off forever. I have limited experience though with toll roads here in Florida-most of the time I usually avoid them. Those who use them often have this tracking device on their vehicles connected to their bank account. (yeah, that's a great idea) And every toll booth you go through has like a million cameras and sensors to check you out......the plot thickens. LOL. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:41:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't ever believe that a government tax or fee or toll is temporary. When the Mackinac Bridge was built by the State of Michigan in the late 1950s to connect the state's two peninsulas, the bridge toll was supposed to be temporary, in place until the construction bonds were paid off. Guess what? The tolls are not only still there, but have been increased multiple times. A politician never voluntarily gives up a revenue stream, because money coming into the government is money that they can control to buy votes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The ones that get me are the "Parkway" connector roads. They are usually built on the premise to connect Road A to Road B to help with local traffic when all they really do is open up more land for development. They are usually built with a attendant "temporary" increase in local taxes that never goes away. IMHO those roads should be made toll roads from the get-go. Free roads for developers is all they amount to. Don't ever believe that a government tax or fee or toll is temporary. When the Mackinac Bridge was built by the State of Michigan in the late 1950s to connect the state's two peninsulas, the bridge toll was supposed to be temporary, in place until the construction bonds were paid off. Guess what? The tolls are not only still there, but have been increased multiple times. A politician never voluntarily gives up a revenue stream, because money coming into the government is money that they can control to buy votes. You mean like airline baggage fees? |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:43:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Interstate Hwy system can't raise enough money even with 18.4 cents per gallon in federal fuel taxes to fix itself so now the regime is proposing allowing states to turn Interstates into toll roads. Can't make link hot. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html They should sell it off and let the legs that can self fund continue to exist and shut down the ones that can't self fund. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:44:21 AM EDT
[#18]
i hit a lot of tolls up and down I-95. From Maine to DC.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:51:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought it was state money to pay for maintenance anyways. In KY the feds pay 90ish% of the maintenance costs on interstate highways (I-75, I-65, etc) but the state does the actual maintenance. The work is done by either the Dept. Of Highways or contractors. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:53:27 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:55:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might be time to invest in some land on those old 'pre-interstate' highways. I know I'd go back to using them if they turn the interstates into toll roads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so forcing higher mpg thus lowering the tax revenue you use for the roads was a bad idea? Might be time to invest in some land on those old 'pre-interstate' highways. I know I'd go back to using them if they turn the interstates into toll roads. 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:56:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not the reason for the "shortfall" in money for maintenance. Gas tax revenue is diverted to pay for public transportation, bicycle paths and various and sundry other projects favored by members of Congress. If the gas tax revenue was used only for road construction and maintenance there would be enough Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so forcing higher mpg thus lowering the tax revenue you use for the roads was a bad idea? That's not the reason for the "shortfall" in money for maintenance. Gas tax revenue is diverted to pay for public transportation, bicycle paths and various and sundry other projects favored by members of Congress. If the gas tax revenue was used only for road construction and maintenance there would be enough Yep. The .gov gets enough of our money and then some. The issue is that the .gov has a money spending and management problem. I have seen examples of this in all levels of government, too.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:58:18 AM EDT
[#23]
If you drive a car, I'll tax the street.
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat. If you get too cold I'll tax the heat. If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet. Taxman! 'Cause I'm the Taxman. Yeah, I'm the Taxman.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 5:59:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The capitolist side of me says this is not a bad thing IF the state buys the interstate system and privitizes it so the .fedgov is hands off forever. I have limited experience though with toll roads here in Florida-most of the time I usually avoid them. Those who use them often have this tracking device on their vehicles connected to their bank account. (yeah, that's a great idea) And every toll booth you go through has like a million cameras and sensors to check you out......the plot thickens. I liked the Florida Turnpike. The tolls were less than the gas I wasted sitting in traffic on I95. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:01:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is or it isn't. The Tri-State Tollway and others are the same way. Voters were promised that the booths would come down after the bonds were paid. Still there. Meanwhile, in Kentucky, according to Google, I-65 used to be the "Kentucky Turnpike" but is no longer. The tolls were removed years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: /quote] Don't ever believe that a government tax or fee or toll is temporary. When the Mackinac Bridge was built by the State of Michigan in the late 1950s to connect the state's two peninsulas, the bridge toll was supposed to be temporary, in place until the construction bonds were paid off. Guess what? The tolls are not only still there, but have been increased multiple times. A politician never voluntarily gives up a revenue stream, because money coming into the government is money that they can control to buy votes. It is or it isn't. The Tri-State Tollway and others are the same way. Voters were promised that the booths would come down after the bonds were paid. Still there. Meanwhile, in Kentucky, according to Google, I-65 used to be the "Kentucky Turnpike" but is no longer. The tolls were removed years ago. All the toll roads in Kentucky were removed. The Cumberland Parkway was another one. The bridges in Louisville connecting to Indiana are being replaced and I hear they are going to charge a toll to cover the replacement costs. Chicago is a perfect example of why toll roads are bad. Like you said the state promised to get rid of them once they were paid for, instead they leased them to a foreign company who then jacked the tolls way up. Back in the late 90s the toll was something like 30 cents per stop. Last time I was through it was close to $1.50 per stop. It felt like I was at a strip club, every time a song ended on the radio I was stopped at a toll booth and had to a pay another dollar.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:03:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is what will happen: 1. States will erect toll system. 2. Rights/lease to toll system will be sold to some company for xxxx amount of money. 3. States will spend the entire amount of money in 1 year not on roads, but on balancing state budget, FSA stuff, pensions, etc. 4. States will be broke again 5. States will increase gas tax and fees to pay for the roads 6. Go back to step #3 You forgot a step between #5 and #6 where the private company raises the tolls by 500%.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:06:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I liked the Florida Turnpike. The tolls were less than the gas I wasted sitting in traffic on I95. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The capitolist side of me says this is not a bad thing IF the state buys the interstate system and privitizes it so the .fedgov is hands off forever. I have limited experience though with toll roads here in Florida-most of the time I usually avoid them. Those who use them often have this tracking device on their vehicles connected to their bank account. (yeah, that's a great idea) And every toll booth you go through has like a million cameras and sensors to check you out......the plot thickens. I liked the Florida Turnpike. The tolls were less than the gas I wasted sitting in traffic on I95. Yeah, on days when someone hasn't tried to win a darwin award and it's actually moving the turnpike can be a good choice. Other days not so great. The toll roads around here in Central FL are less effecient. I also notice officer friendly likes toll roads and turnpikes better. My guess is that they generate a better revenue stream. Riff raff Hatians use I-95 and don't have any money anyway. That new Audi though screams "disposable income" and BFE needs a new MRAP transmission. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:08:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html Yeah, tolls really work out well on the PA Turnpike to keep it up.  I had to make a round trip between Pitt and Philly. I decided NOT to take the turnpike for a change. It cost me an extra hour or so each way but I didn't have to pay any tolls. Savings: $63. Depending on the weather, the PA turnpike has just priced itself out of one customer. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:10:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine.
Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:15:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:16:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. That's awesome. I was wondering when the food police and body fat inspectors would show up in a thread for the interstates becoming a bigger revenue stream for .gov 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:42:05 AM EDT
[#32]
The cost to build an average urban road of 8 total lanes for 12 miles is 6.5 million bucks a mile. The cost of building a superhighway tollroad is much more than $6.5mm/mile.
If you drive 100k a year on a toll way and get 25 mpg, you will pay $1600 a year (in Texas for state, fed, and local taxes). This means that your highway taxes will pay for a whopping .00025 miles of highway or 1.3 whopping feet. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:43:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2+2=4, but not for the people in our Federal Government. Before it's all said and done, you will be taxed by the miles you drive + pay the fuel tax. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: so forcing higher mpg thus lowering the tax revenue you use for the roads was a bad idea? 2+2=4, but not for the people in our Federal Government. Before it's all said and done, you will be taxed by the miles you drive + pay the fuel tax. Not saying you should do it, ever, but it's not hard to disconnect an odometer. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:50:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! I offered perspective on the issue. You simply reinforced my contention that the complainers suck at math and personal responsibility. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 6:54:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Meh, go retro.....................
Route 66 Of all the songs associated with Route 66, Bobby Troup's "Get Your Kicks On Route 66" most vividly comes to our minds.
Reinvigorated by Nat Kick Cole in the 1940's, this song's catchy lyrics and quick beat reflected the spirit of the Baby Booming era after World War II. The fascination with going west, living your dreams, and inventing yourself resound in the music of this era. Troup wrote this particular song while on Route 66 with his wife. here's a little aside, his wife was the delectable Julie London. That's Bobby with the  behind her.
Not knowing the history or the national appeal of America's Main Street, Troup simply wrote what came to mind as his car meandered over the bumby road. His lyrics would help make this road legendary after the Interstate Highway Act of 1956--an act virtually destructing the 1926 highway Route 66 If you ever plan to motor west: Travel my way, the highway that's the best. Get your kicks on Route 66! It winds from Chicago to L.A., More than 2,000 miles all the way, Get your kicks on Route 66 ! Now you go thru St. Looey...Joplin, Missouri! And Oklahoma City looks mighty pretty. You'll see Amarillo...Gallup, New Mexico. Flagstaff, Arizona: don't forget Winona, Kingman, Barstow, San Bernardino. Won't you..get hip to this timely tip: when you..make that California trip. Get your kicks on Route 66! |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:00:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. We're already paying the $100 a month. When they started taking it, they said they'd spend it on roads. We agreed because we were sick of needing google maps and a get home bag to find our way out of potholes. So now they have our money. They fill the potholes. They keep taking the money. More potholes form, except now they're spending our pothole money on other shit that nobody asked us about, and now they want another $100 for the potholes. The problem is not a lack of funds anymore than a heroin addict's problem is a lack of heroin. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:00:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I offered perspective on the issue. You simply reinforced my contention that the complainers suck at math and personal responsibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! I offered perspective on the issue. You simply reinforced my contention that the complainers suck at math and personal responsibility. We get it. Shut up and pay more. We are not paying our "fair share". 
BTW....how many people do you know who drive 100K per year and get 25mpg? Just curious. Math . It's hard. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:11:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How? If they wanted to read plates or something couldn't they just put up cameras and say it was to monitor flow, or get a count of cars using the road? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. How? If they wanted to read plates or something couldn't they just put up cameras and say it was to monitor flow, or get a count of cars using the road? Many , if not most toll roads are going cashless. You get a radio transponder to put in your windshield and they bill you. (and keep track of when and where you travel.) |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:15:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many , if not most toll roads are going cashless. You get a radio transponder to put in your windshield and they bill you. (and keep track of when and where you travel.) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. How? If they wanted to read plates or something couldn't they just put up cameras and say it was to monitor flow, or get a count of cars using the road? Many , if not most toll roads are going cashless. You get a radio transponder to put in your windshield and they bill you. (and keep track of when and where you travel.) Loosen the tin foil already. They can track your whereabouts much easier with a network of license plate reading cameras at every intersection and on/off ramp. No transponder or action required by the driver.  |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:15:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many , if not most toll roads are going cashless. You get a radio transponder to put in your windshield and they bill you. (and keep track of when and where you travel.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. How? If they wanted to read plates or something couldn't they just put up cameras and say it was to monitor flow, or get a count of cars using the road? Many , if not most toll roads are going cashless. You get a radio transponder to put in your windshield and they bill you. (and keep track of when and where you travel.) So we kiss the freedom to travel out the window too? |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:18:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We get it. Shut up and pay more. We are not paying our "fair share".
BTW....how many people do you know who drive 100K per year and get 25mpg? Just curious. Math . It's hard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! I offered perspective on the issue. You simply reinforced my contention that the complainers suck at math and personal responsibility. We get it. Shut up and pay more. We are not paying our "fair share".
BTW....how many people do you know who drive 100K per year and get 25mpg? Just curious. Math . It's hard. 25 mpg is very common and considered undesirably low for most people. Do what you want. My point, not a difficult one to comprehend, is that fuel taxes are not enough to build highways. Tolls are user taxes. Quite equitable. Use it; pay for it. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:20:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! Don't have to. I can manage my money. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:20:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html Yeah, tolls really work out well on the PA Turnpike to keep it up. winner winner.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:21:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Fuel taxes make up only a small portion of total spending on transportation. Much of it comes from the general fund or is financed by debt.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:27:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuel taxes make up only a small portion of total spending on transportation. Much of it comes from the general fund or is financed by debt. Probably that. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 7:27:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Chicago is a perfect example of why toll roads are bad. Like you said the state promised to get rid of them once they were paid for, instead they leased them to a foreign company who then jacked the tolls way up. Back in the late 90s the toll was something like 30 cents per stop. Last time I was through it was close to $1.50 per stop. It felt like I was at a strip club, every time a song ended on the radio I was stopped at a toll booth and had to a pay another dollar. Exactly. I remember when it was 40 cents, then it was 80 cents and now it's almost $1.50. Now they even have little signs after you pass the toll plaza(well mainly because most everyone has an I-Pass) to rub it in about how much you paid. At least on the Indiana and Ohio Toll Roads/Turnpikes you only pay when you leave. Get a ticket when you enter, pay when you leave. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:01:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
25 mpg is very common and considered undesirably low for most people. Do what you want. My point, not a difficult one to comprehend, is that fuel taxes are not enough to build highways. Tolls are user taxes. Quite equitable. Use it; pay for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! I offered perspective on the issue. You simply reinforced my contention that the complainers suck at math and personal responsibility. We get it. Shut up and pay more. We are not paying our "fair share".
BTW....how many people do you know who drive 100K per year and get 25mpg? Just curious. Math . It's hard. 25 mpg is very common and considered undesirably low for most people. Do what you want. My point, not a difficult one to comprehend, is that fuel taxes are not enough to build highways. Tolls are user taxes. Quite equitable. Use it; pay for it. Free market.....capitolism......Use it pay for it....gtg. Buy your own hunk of land, build your own road, charge whatever you want to those who want to use it. Fine. However, taking something from me at the point of a gun that I've already paid for by forcing me to pay taxes (Fuel, State, Local, and Property in this case) and then requiring me to pay for it again and again and again to use the same product.....Pound sand. Now your motives have to be questioned. Making us all "equitable" is the hallmark of .......hummm....what's the word?
Glad you are out there though.....the contrast is interesting. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:06:53 AM EDT
[#48]
I get his point on the maintenance. Roads depreciate. In Texas, a Farm to Market road has a design life of 15-20 years. An interstate has a design life of 40 years.
That's between replacements. They also need maintenance in between. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:11:02 AM EDT
[#49]
If I had even the slightest expectation that the tolls would be offset by reducing other taxes, I might entertain this notion as acceptable. But, as we know, that's not how it ever works.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:22:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cost to build an average urban road of 8 total lanes for 12 miles is 6.5 million bucks a mile. The cost of building a superhighway tollroad is much more than $6.5mm/mile. If you drive 100k a year on a toll way and get 25 mpg, you will pay $1600 a year (in Texas for state, fed, and local taxes). This means that your highway taxes will pay for a whopping .00025 miles of highway or 1.3 whopping feet. |
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