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Posted: 8/29/2023 11:59:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imo you should add the Keltec SUB CQB to that list if your are actually considering a SUB2000. I own an Evo with just about everything from HBI and love it, it will be even better when my R9 clears. The R9 is a sweet can for the price. Do be sure to get tri-lug adapter. 
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:01:02 AM EDT
[#2]
No. My Ruger PC9 is an excellent trunk gun to supplement my SR-9 glovebox gun and my SR-9c carry gun, because they all share the same mags and the same ammo.
Not only does it make range time easier, it's not a bad combination for unexpected SHTF situations. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:02:56 AM EDT
[#3]
The only issue I have with the SUB2000 is if you mount any kind of optic or red dot it pretty much negates the utility of its folding feature.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:08:12 AM EDT
[#4]
I like my AR9 for gun games. Same manual of arms as a "real" rifle, cheaper to feed, can be used where rifle calibers aren't allowed.
For social occasions, it's better than a sharpened stick but worse than a 5.56 rifle. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:13:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn’t say it’s a stupid idea, but it makes more sense when the cartridge you’re chambering benefits from a longer barrel length. You don’t get that much more from a longer barrel with 9mm, so it’s really about sight radius, mag compatibility, and ease of use. So a Swedish K or MP5 and MPX are out of the question then? Same principle right? |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:21:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The R9 is a sweet can for the price. Do be sure to get tri-lug adapter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imo you should add the Keltec SUB CQB to that list if your are actually considering a SUB2000. I own an Evo with just about everything from HBI and love it, it will be even better when my R9 clears. The R9 is a sweet can for the price. Do be sure to get tri-lug adapter. @Alien Already done, went with a Hanson Brothers 3 lug mount and have YHM 3 lug adapter in hand.. day 217   Attached File |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:58:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve got a Ruger PCC and I love it. It’s a little heavy but I still like it. I’ve gotten pretty good with it now and it’s graduated to the house HD gun. Accurate, reliable and built like a tank it’s a perfect companion for my G17. I’m not sure why everyone puts down a PCC for a HD gun. I’ve no desire to blow out everyone’s eardrums including my Grandkids that stay with us a lot. People rely on a 9mm pistol for HD, why not a PCC??? Can’t imagine firing a ar in the hallway without hearing protection, especially a short barrel |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:09:11 AM EDT
[#8]
I have a Ruger 9 pcc and it is a blast to shoot! It shoots well and has been dependable.
It is really fun to shoot at multiple steel targets with a 30 round mag! |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:28:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve got a Ruger PCC and I love it. It’s a little heavy but I still like it. I’ve gotten pretty good with it now and it’s graduated to the house HD gun. Accurate, reliable and built like a tank it’s a perfect companion for my G17. I’m not sure why everyone puts down a PCC for a HD gun. I’ve no desire to blow out everyone’s eardrums including my Grandkids that stay with us a lot. People rely on a 9mm pistol for HD, why not a PCC??? I would definitely take a PCC over a handgun, but it's still shooting handgun rounds. It's just not going to be close to the same terminal performance as a rifle round. How much worse is a rifle for your ears? Googling gives a variety of answers but they seem to be within ~5 decibels. (https://www.silencercentral.com/blog/5-56-vs-9mm-a-complete-breakdown/) Silencers are always an option, too. I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I would pick a PCC over a shotgun for HD. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:30:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only issue I have with the SUB2000 is if you mount any kind of optic or red dot it pretty much negates the utility of its folding feature. The S&W FPC folds sideways, so no issue with optics. It does prevent using the M-LOK rails on the left side of the handguard, though. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:31:45 AM EDT
[#11]
 ringing steel at 100 with a 50 round drum is $15 of fun |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:32:39 AM EDT
[#12]
I can say I've taken a few new shooters out with various items. Several of them have commented the 9mm pcc is their favorite. Ruger pc carbine newer edition. It really is a hoot.
For self defense, it's better than a lot of options, and a poorer choice than others. It is fun at the range.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:34:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't do much hog hunting at night as I used to. But whenever I would see one lone boar by itself out in the open my fun thing to do was to take my 9 mm A.R., which has an inexpensive Flir PTS 233 on top and see just how close I could get to it before I couldn't stand it and had to pull the trigger. That was the only thing to being an adrenaline junkie that I've ever tried. Anyway, closest one ever approached before I knew I was about to get eaten to death was 27 steps. Neck shot and it dropped. Pitch black dark with no moon, and I could see it moving with my unaided eye. Anyway, I've shot dozens of large hogs with that 9 mm carbine and it does a number on them. Routinely shot them up to 100 yards, just to avoid making a lot of unnecessary noise when there were other hogs way off in the distance. So I wouldn't totally discount it for home defense. But that's just me personally. 9mm out of a longer barrel is a whole different animal than 9mm out of a pistol barrel. I have AR9's and MP5's. Love 9mm PCCs. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:40:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you read this OP, read it again. 9mm out of a longer barrel is a whole different animal than 9mm out of a pistol barrel. I have AR9's and MP5's. Love 9mm PCCs. I agree with your final statement, but you honestly get only a couple hundred fps out of a rifle bbl with 9mm. Sight radius and follow up shots are obviously easier. You're not getting a ton more energy as ypu would from a magnum revolver cartridge with the longer bbl. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:59:06 AM EDT
[#15]
I wouldn’t choose any of those, but I do have a “few” PCCs.
Besides being a ton of fun to shoot, the PCC is a vastly underrated H/SD weapon for a number of reasons. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 9:46:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you read this OP, read it again. 9mm out of a longer barrel is a whole different animal than 9mm out of a pistol barrel. I have AR9's and MP5's. Love 9mm PCCs. So isn't at about the same as plus P Defense ammunition from a handgun? Edit: Im not using premium bullets. It is an 8" SBR. And a second one with a 9 inch barrel. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 9:57:31 AM EDT
[#17]
I like that a 50 yard zero is poa at 100 out of my 16 lucky gunner ppc AR9
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Posted: 8/30/2023 10:09:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Alien Already done, went with a Hanson Brothers 3 lug mount and have YHM 3 lug adapter in hand.. day 217 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/577174/20230522_144002_jpg-2937047.JPG What stock is that? |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 10:47:29 AM EDT
[#19]
They have their place. I have a 9mm CX4. I also have a 16" 5lb AR15. The AR is more powerful and accurate but I still like taking the CX4 out at times. For serious work I would go with the AR every time. Still the PCCs have their niche.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:06:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn’t choose any of those, but I do have a “few” PCCs. Besides being a ton of fun to shoot, the PCC is a vastly underrated H/SD weapon for a number of reasons. I think it has more value as a HD gun depending on setting and shooter. Depending on Ammo type you could have less overpenetration, less bullet travel. For Elderly, Youths and Women you could have less recoil (depending on platform) and less muzzle blast and sound. It's not a stupid idea, just more of a niche choice under circumstance if for serious use outside of competition and Range Toy. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:12:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like my AR9 for gun games. Same manual of arms as a "real" rifle, cheaper to feed, can be used where rifle calibers aren't allowed. For social occasions, it's better than a sharpened stick but worse than a 5.56 rifle. Yep! If you shoot your PCC in competition, you really have no reason to train on 556 at those distances as those PCC skills directly translate. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:18:02 AM EDT
[#22]
@TarzanT
It's the OEM CZ Scorpion sbr stock and what they now use on the 3+. It also contains a little known feature. Here's an interesting tidbit I discovered at a lgs when fondling a factory Scorpion sbr, which also led me to seek out this particular version for my form 1. Previous generations of the CZ stock used a magnet in the stock and when folded stuck to the S/N plate on the right side of the receiver, which kinda worked. This version has a little hook that latches into the magwell and is rock solid when folded. Deployment and security of the stock are light years ahead of anything I've ever used when it comes to a folding stock. Don't get me started on that silly Sig latch, yuck.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileImo it's one of the features that separates the Evo from other PCC platforms, it's ability to remain 100% functional and still reliably eject brass when folded. It was literally designed just for that purpose. Added bonus is the ambi anti-rotation qd cup. If the Evo was a roller delayed pcc there would be no argument as to who was king.  Attached FileSo with all that said my next PCC is a B&T APC9 SD compact 
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:19:13 AM EDT
[#23]
no. the only one that makes sense to me is a flux glock or sig, as that gives you the shootability of a rifle in something that fits in your glove box. Otherwise if you have need of a rifle, use a damn rifle caliber and get the benefit. If you want to practice and train and plink and have fun, do it with 22. Still cheaper than 9mm.
I have bought (and subsequently sold off) 2x SUb2k, a ruger PCC, and a scorpion. I have used the same flux glock for ~6 years and finally got into Rattlers a year or so ago. Pistols are carried because they are easy, not because they are good. Watching a shooting in my front yard (  ) proved to me that if I need to do anything for HD I need it to be fast and powerful and as violent as possible. Not something that makes pistol holes.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:21:23 AM EDT
[#24]
FPNI
Fun to plink with and suppress. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:23:49 AM EDT
[#25]
I’ve got a SBR’ed Scorpion with a can. It’s a fun range toy, and I guess it would be a good home defense weapon for a girl, but it doesn’t do anything better than my SBR’ed AR15 in 5.56.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:23:52 AM EDT
[#26]
MP5 clone or bust.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:27:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve got a SBR’ed Scorpion with a can. It’s a fun range toy, and I guess it would be a good home defense weapon for a girl, but it doesn’t do anything better than my SBR’ed AR15 in 5.56. Given your screen name I would think you love your Scorpion lol |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:36:16 AM EDT
[#28]
I went with the ruger PCC. Basically because it is built like a brick and can be split into. Takedown deal. It’s fun. It’s accurate for what it is. I run SR 9 mags. I had a bunch. As a HDW I would have no issues.
PS. I did upgrade the extractor and trigger . Just because.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:38:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These were a lot more appetizing with a brace... I just know I would have to SBR it within a |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:40:41 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:44:39 AM EDT
[#31]
By chance have you seen the M*Carbo mount. $149.00 it is reasonable and a plus.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:47:40 AM EDT
[#32]
The concept would seem to have potential for small or frail people who want a weapon for self defense.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:48:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Meh
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:48:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only issue I have with the SUB2000 is if you mount any kind of optic or red dot it pretty much negates the utility of its folding feature. By chance have you seen the M*Carbo mount. $149.00 it is reasonable and a plus. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:50:31 AM EDT
[#35]
9MM PCC isn't a stupid idea.
That said I like to run .45ACP silenced. 
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:51:03 AM EDT
[#36]
They're fun. I've got a Sub2K and it's been a lot of places w/ me when I travel. Have since replaced it as a travel gun w/ an AR pistol, but it's a reliable compact choice IMO.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:54:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Fun and cheaper to feed. A pistol caliber that is good out of a pistol will be slightly better out of a carbine.
Plus it's a lot easier to be accurate with a rifle format firearm than a pistol, thus if you NEED to use one, a PCC will likely make you a lot more effective than just having a handgun. Remember the sentiment that a pistol is a second choice to a rifle, and that a pistol should be used to get you to your rifle. I like my CZ Scorpion. It is reliable and can be stupid accurate. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:54:34 AM EDT
[#38]
It's a tool, figure out what your mission parameters are, then use the tool that fits those parameters.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:32:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Just shy of 1400 fps out of the Keltec with 124gr. While I might not take one to a war zone, a PCC will do just fine for inside the home.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html GD: Glock 19 - Perfect for my defense needs 16" PCC: - You'll die wishing you had a rifle. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:50:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Unless you have a special need or the carbine has special gimmick, 9mm carbines that weigh as much as a 16in AR are silly sauce. Theyre mostly direct blowback, which doesnt help the "recoil sensitive" argument.
I give keltec a pass because they have the folding gimmick. Beyond that, you either just want one or you have that special need-- you practice with cheaper ammo, its delayed blowback, its not 9mm, or something else. Or you're paranoid of assault gun laws? 
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:53:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bought a S&W FPC because I have a few M&P pistols, and the mags are compatible. The folding feature makes for a neat stampless backpack gun. Practically speaking though, it's basically a range toy. I would never pick it over an AR for home defense. https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9HqsKS/FPC.jpg I like the S&W , but the buttstock mag set up is retarded, by which I mean you press the release and it releases the opposite mag, there was no easy way to hold the gun, grab a spare mag and yank it out because of that, super annoying. But I like the gun otherwise. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:55:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you have a special need or the carbine has special gimmick, 9mm carbines that weigh as much as a 16in AR are silly sauce. Theyre mostly direct blowback, which is worse. My 9mm and 22LR ARs let me shoot on a pistol range that doesn't allow rifle cartridges and let me shoot more for less. And they're fun to shoot suppressed. That's enough justification for me. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 12:57:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 9mm and 22LR ARs let me shoot on a pistol range that doesn't allow rifle cartridges and let me shoot more for less. And they're fun to shoot suppressed. That's enough justification for me. Falls under "special need" 
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:06:14 PM EDT
[#44]
These are a great home defense choice, especially for the wife & capable-age children.
It's hard to allege you are outgunned with 30 rounds of your favorite HD ammo at hand. They frequently don't have the strength and dexterity to handle an AR (lock the action open, clear double feed, etc), or lots of times a pistol. But a PCC is easy. You will be able to make them far more capable in far less time with a PCC over any other platform. Pistol, rifle, shotty. They are also fun to shoot, which means you will get them to do more shooting and training with it versus an AR or pistol. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:17:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I have the Ruger and the Hipoint. The Hipoint shit the bed (my fault) and I need to send it back for repair. Very limited rifle, but it was handy as fuck. Then I got the Ruger. Wanted to love it, but I don't. It's still my go to for suburban pacification. We get feral hogs coming in, the occasional coyote, there's enough random gunfire in town that no one pays attention to some guy putting down critters on 7 acres. I still use it because it breaks down, goes in that case that doesn't necessarily look like a gun. Killed more than half a dozen hogs with it, 147 Golden Sabers.
I did let my son shoot a pig in a trap with his Ruger 22 automatic pistol. Maybe it was just us, but we all felt it was louder than the 9mm. I need to measure it next time. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:20:02 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:20:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Never had an issue with the Sub2k but I hated the ergonomics and having to remove the optic in order to fold it. Ended up selling that for the Ruger PCC and love it.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:23:45 PM EDT
[#48]
I had a Beretta storm carbine when they'll first came out, but 223 was cheap so I never shot it and sold it.
I bought a Colt 9mm carbine. I can shoot pistol steel at a range that has it set up. It's fun and is set up the same as an AR. I don't know that it's any better than an AR for recoil. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:48:10 PM EDT
[#49]
I really like the ruger pcc.
Takedown,2 different magwells and accurate but heavy. As for heavy : Boris 'The Blade' Yurinov : [referring to Tommy's gun] Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:54:23 PM EDT
[#50]
PCCs are probably not the most practical choice but they are a lot of fun nonetheless.
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