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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:49:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Ok. If this info shies them away from Labs, what breeds would you all recommend?
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:52:06 PM EDT
[#2]
my current beast
he got a gaggle of titles. Working on his master hunter...has his HRCH. he's a really cool dog, can go from frothing, vibrating, adrenaline dripping psycho to a completely calm stuffed animal cuddle bum. best dog ever. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:52:39 PM EDT
[#3]
This is the mother of my Lab. Can't find a pic of his father right now.
https://www.dublins-classic-labradors.com/sable |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:54:17 PM EDT
[#4]
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My dogs ate my living room. I don't mean they chewed up the legs of a table, I mean they ate the couch, the loveseat, the arm chairs, every pillow and cussion, the coffee table, the end tables, all of it was eaten. I went from nice furniture to looking like I live in a crack den. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:55:09 PM EDT
[#5]
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Ok. If this info shies them away from Labs, what breeds would you all recommend? best breed in my humble opinion 
just kidding they require a lot of time  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:55:52 PM EDT
[#6]
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"They are a pretty busy family with a small yard" This shouts out to me don't get a puppy |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:55:55 PM EDT
[#7]
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Even the spay bit is proving to be terrible advice. It drastically increases the chance of several fatal cancers, increases the chance of incontinence, increases the rate of anxiety disorders and aggression, and doesn’t really do anything productive beyond eliminating the inconvenience of period blood and accidental reproduction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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don't get it sprayed or neutered till it has finished growing, if ever. at least 18 months old preferably 2 years old. crate train, put nylon bones or kong toys in your laundry basket to get their scent on it and give the dog one just before leaving to avoid destructive chewing One semi-consistent bit is to spay a female before its first heat. For males, though, I've had vets recommend everything from 12 weeks to 1.5-2 years. I've always heard that spaying before the first heat greatly reduces the chance breast (mammary) cancer. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:57:04 PM EDT
[#8]
I was reading gun dog magazine about dogs that destroyed something expensive. A guy had a lab pup (grown) he'd put in his garage at night. He had a new car with a vinyl top. They were very popular in the seventies. One morning he stepped into the garage to find his dog laying on the vinyl top, in the floor.
The dog got up on the roof and tore the vinyl off the car. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 10:59:11 PM EDT
[#9]
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Like many breeds, a well behaved lab puppy = a tired lab puppy 
The kids arent going to consistently keep that dog occupied. Make sure the adult owners know that will be their responsibility. My labs have not been horrors when they were pups, but one was a serious chewer. I still have chewed shoes and luggage from when she was a pup, and she passed at 13 three years ago. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:02:12 PM EDT
[#10]
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Even the spay bit is proving to be terrible advice. It drastically increases the chance of several fatal cancers, increases the chance of incontinence, increases the rate of anxiety disorders and aggression, and doesn't really do anything productive beyond eliminating the inconvenience of period blood and accidental reproduction. As with everything, there are no perfect solutions. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:04:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. If this info shies them away from Labs, what breeds would you all recommend? 
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/AgataBednarska-6b1dea6937a7474799d36869ad338089.jpg)
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:06:38 PM EDT
[#12]
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You kind of prove my point. I've always heard that spaying before the first heat greatly reduces the chance breast (mammary) cancer. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:11:21 PM EDT
[#13]
At that price and if they're actually offering to part with the Lab pups at that age I'd question how reputable a breeder they are.
**scratch my age comment - I read the OP as 4.5 weeks , not 4.5 months. Good labs with good lines, whose parents have had health clearance for hips and eyes, usually run around 3x that price. If it's a puppy mill breeder who has those pups, taking one is opening the door for a host of potential health and temperament issues. Also, they shouldn't be taken away from the litter until 8 weeks. The pups learn a LOT from each other in the last weeks, particularly bite inhibition which is a really big deal. As for the breed itself, Labs are wonderful family dogs but need a lot of attention and exercise, and will be a bouncing ball of fur and teeth and energy until about age 3. They will pretty much eat anything, even if its not food. Mine enjoyed snacks of drywall, tinsel, shoes, and paper towels. Amidst the destruction, they're hilarious and very trainable. Mine was very smart - she knew about 100 words. She'd get so excited about some of them (like WALK) that we had to start spelling it. Then she figured that out so we switched to French. Then she figured THAT out so we started spelling out the French. You get the idea.... TL:DR - get a pup from a reputable breeder who does health clearances on the parents, and expect 3 years of mayhem and about 10 years of great dog after that. And most Labs are around 50-70 lbs, to me that is medium sized but others may consider that "large". CG |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:12:44 PM EDT
[#14]
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Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Boston Terrier, American Eskimo Dog, Dachshund, Teddy Roosevelt Terrier |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:15:28 PM EDT
[#15]
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"They are a pretty busy family with a small yard" This shouts out to me don't get a puppy |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:17:11 PM EDT
[#16]
I have had 6 labs throughout the years. I found the females to have better temperament, and don't pee on every tree, stump, table leg, etc.
That is a good price. Check for any hip issue history with the mom and pop. Otherwise, jump at it, you cannot do better with Labs and kids. They are smart, will get potty trained fast, the key to training is consistency. EVERYONE is on the same page with feeding, treats, discipline, etc. Your dog will love you for it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:19:29 PM EDT
[#17]
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"They are a pretty busy family with a small yard" This shouts out to me don't get a puppy Labs, like many breeds, need tons of attention as pups. If they get bored, they'll find something to entertain themselves. Chances are, it won't be something you'll like. Chewing in anything that isn't nailed down is common across most breeds. Labs are also frequently diggers, so if they have a nice manicured lawn, they may not be happy to find this out the hard way. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:21:58 PM EDT
[#18]
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Bostons are great with kids if you get a pup. They love to play. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Boston Terrier, American Eskimo Dog, Dachshund, Teddy Roosevelt Terrier |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:22:04 PM EDT
[#19]
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Don't let the kids pick the dog. Kids fall in love with the hyper one. The one jumping and licking and loving all over them. Then you take it home and guess what? That dog is hyper, needy, pushy, destructive, etc. The dog you want from the litter is the most mellow. The one sleeping in the corner. The one that really doesn't get excited whether the kids are there or not. That's the calm family dog that everyone wants. It blows my mind that people pick dogs based on characteristics they HATE as soon as they get home. WTF did you expect?  |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:22:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryDoubletap! Shit, that is a first this year! |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:23:56 PM EDT
[#21]
If they can't spend at least 35 minutes to 1 hour a day with the dog dont get it.
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:24:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a bad age to buy a Lab pup. You need to get them around 8 weeks so you can start them out right. Have fun trying to train them at that age. And that's too much $$ for leftover pups. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/422/FullSizeR_2-1198860.jpg This is why you want them young. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/422/pup3-251323.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/422/pup1-251318.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/422/IMG_0685_JPG-454153.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/422/pup2-251316.jpg If the pups were not socialized and kept properly they can be a bitch to train. If just kept in a kennel with minimal human contact and left to run and entertain themselves they will not identify with and respond to humans the same as a 8 week old pup that is directly introduced to a home setting. Just like children, pups have windows when it is best to introduce them to certain situations. It would take a VERY special person to have at least 4 puppies of the same age and litter around and give them the attention each would need to bond well with humans. This is why many organizations that train dogs such as dogs for the blind or helper/service dogs insist they get puppies at age 7 to 8 weeks. You need to find out exactly how the dogs were kept, housed, fed, what they have and have not been exposed to etc. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:26:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Thank you all for your time and input. It will help them make an informed decision.
Good night to you all. I'm heading for bed. I'll check back in tomorrow and forward this all to my son and his lovely wife |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:27:43 PM EDT
[#24]
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4) Get two so they have someone with them when all their people are at school/work Then again, I got my dogs used from the shelter and they were already six years old (shelter lied and said they were four). |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:29:59 PM EDT
[#25]
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The trouble with two is that they can develop the sibling complex, become more independent of people (owner) and ignore the people. Mine did. I confirmed this with other dog owners who got siblings as pups. Then again, I got my dogs used from the shelter and they were already six years old (shelter lied and said they were four). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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4) Get two so they have someone with them when all their people are at school/work Then again, I got my dogs used from the shelter and they were already six years old (shelter lied and said they were four). |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:30:22 PM EDT
[#26]
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Ok. If this info shies them away from Labs, what breeds would you all recommend? I would second whoever recommending adopting an older dog. They're going to be past the trouble phase, but you'll have to be careful with selection here. You don't want a dog that has been untrained and bad habits allowed for years without correction. My painful lesson (a JRT) is pictured below. (Now ex) wife picked him out "cause he's so cute". Total hell for the first two years. Had a Boston Terrier some time later. Super affectionate, but suffered from separation anxiety and became destructive while we were gone. 
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:36:19 PM EDT
[#27]
$550.00 seems kind of high to me for an 18 week old puppy. What are the pedigrees of the parents(not at all saying that titles, pedigrees etc are the final word) health clearances, hips, eyes, etc. Are the owners trying to cash in on xmas give the kids a puppy?
At that age they have already learned some bad habits while not impossible to break, may seem daunting to a new dog owner. The sporting dogs that I have owned, Labs and Goldens, it has been my experience that the males are more dependent and clingy to the Patriarch of the family and the females I have owned are more independent. I only mention Goldens because both make great family dogs. I'm a waterfowl hunter and have owned and hunted both Labs and Goldens, only edge I give to the Labs is the clean-up at the end of the day. Goldens aka. swamp collies :) attract every type of weed, briar, sticker etc. even when wearing a neoprene vest. All that being said, I have never met a dumb Lab or Golden, just different degrees of stubbornness. Whichever route you go be prepared for a few things. 1.Tell them what you want to do. 2.Be prepared to explain why. 3.Don’t be surprised when they figure out an easier way to do step #1. It all boils down to your commitment to the dog, either go all in or none at all, because if you go for a Lab or Golden, they are going all in for you. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:38:35 PM EDT
[#28]
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+100 YEP! Getting two puppies at the same time is a very bad idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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4) Get two so they have someone with them when all their people are at school/work Then again, I got my dogs used from the shelter and they were already six years old (shelter lied and said they were four). |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:40:12 PM EDT
[#29]
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this. all of it. $550 is pretty cheap for a quality pup. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And if they're going with a dog from a breeder, they'll want to make sure all health clearances on the parents are in order. For Labs, this means both parents have had x-rays for hip and elbow dysplasia, an eye exam by a board certified ophthalmologist, a DNA test for exercise induced collapse, and a D locus DNA test. If the breeder doesn't know what these are or isn't willing to furnish the results, they need to keep looking. If the breeder doesn't have some sort of titles on their dogs, that's a big red flag. They could be titles in obedience, conformation, agility, hunting, etc, but there should be some sort of effort to show that the dogs are physically and mentally sound, good representatives of the breed through independent evaluation. If the breeder doesn't do that, they should be very skeptical. $550 is a mighty low price for a dog with appropriate health and temperament testing, but it can happen. $550 is pretty cheap for a quality pup. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:40:35 PM EDT
[#30]
I have had two Black Labs, neither were/are stupid. It's very simple they want to please and want something to do. Provide that and you are good to go. My current black lab is a rescue, from day one he has been one loyal sweet and smart dog. Never any issues at all. He latched on to me the first day I had him. I can't believe someone abandoned this dog, but I sure am glad they did.
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:41:56 PM EDT
[#31]
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meh.. quality breeders won't have pups left a 4.5 months old ... most times they are sold before they are born. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:44:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my current beast https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/312716/26703035752203-1198916.jpg he got a gaggle of titles. Working on his master hunter...has his HRCH. he's a really cool dog, can go from frothing, vibrating, adrenaline dripping psycho to a completely calm stuffed animal cuddle bum. best dog ever. also - our dogs laugh in ribbons and titles.. |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:52:55 PM EDT
[#33]
I loved my yellow lab, but I would never get another one, but only because I don't have the time to devote to one. My lab was great as long as I took the time to play with him and wear him out EVERY afternoon. If he didn't get his daily play and exercise he was a terror. If you don't keep them occupied and amused, they will amuse themselves...usually by chewing something you don't want them to. Mine got bored and chewed the entire door frame of the back door off of my house. Mine was also an escape artist. Didn't matter what I did to keep him in the fenced backyard, he would find away out, either over the fence, under the fence, and he even tried to chew his way through the fence. I miss his big goofy ass, but I don't miss repairing all the things he destroyed around my house.
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:54:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Labs are great dogs, but they are working breeds. this means they need A LOT of activity. I work my dog at minimum an hour a day and most times thats not enough. he's a year old. they are demanding in attention and training. they are NOT retarded.... REAL labs were bred for 2 purposes, swim through anything, to bring me back anything.. simple as that. instinctively, they need to just get things.. doesn't matter what, they just need to get it and have it in their mouth.. its normal and it isn't to be considered a pain in the ass or indication of a retarded dog by any stretch.
also, large working breeds such as labs, you need to wait to neuter at least a year if not more. (some say close to 2 years) there is LOADS of research to attribute health risks and joint damage from early neutering. this also tends to give the uneducated dog owners a sense of dogs being stupid.. it just isn't true. remember how much stupid shit you did when you were going through puberty ? I have experienced this first hand, I made the mistake by bad advise to neuter too early and what was a pure lab had health and joint problems far too early in considering its pedigree and health testing... my new dog won't be cut until at least 1.5 yrs old.. unless I title him early enough and ill breed him out for lineage from the sounds of it, the needs of your family dont meet what the needs of a lab puppy would be. but regardless of what breed they choose, buying from a reputable breeder is always highly recommended... you get what you pay for... |
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Posted: 12/16/2019 11:59:14 PM EDT
[#35]
We have a lab and mutt. Both around1.5 years old.
1. We kennel during bad weather. They go nuts for about 2 hours when we get home and generally unruly. But they are fine when left outside all day. 2. We got the mutt a few months after the lab. They need to get two dogs so the dogs can wear each other out. The lab was so much better behaved after we got the mutt. 3. How long is the yard? My lot is about 30 yards wide. Plenty of room for them to char each other around. 4. Labs are great family dogs. They live to please and are easy to train. Fo |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:08:37 AM EDT
[#36]
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1) Labs are stupid but have a heart as large as all outdoors. I love mine. 2) Spay or neuter, 2 weeks is about right. 3) Male or female they are about the same size when grown. 4) Get two so they have someone with them when all their people are at school/work 5) They are stupid, so forget about them being Border Collie smart. It just ain't happening. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:18:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1) Labs are stupid but have a heart as large as all outdoors. I love mine. 2) Spay or neuter, 2 weeks is about right. 3) Male or female they are about the same size when grown. 4) Get two so they have someone with them when all their people are at school/work 5) They are stupid, so forget about them being Border Collie smart. It just ain't happening. We have two female CCI breeders currently - a purebreed Golden and a Lab-Golden X (might as well be pure Lab), they are 50-55lbs. Even at 3 & 4 y/o they require a good 30 minute walk every day or they get stir crazy. OP - with a small backyard and kids that probably won't pay attention to the dog training/exercising I'd say skip a sporting breed unless Mom or Dad is truly going to be the one taking care of the dog every day. If they are set on a Lab try to get on the waiting list for a release dog from CCI or a different service dog organization. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:24:06 AM EDT
[#38]
I paid $450 for a AKC yellow in western Virginia. 8 weeks old when we picked him up.
He is 7 months now and is basically a 4 legged piranha. He is pretty good with kids (3 and 9 years) He is a bit goofy right now but doesn’t seem stupid. I will add if you get a pup you need chew toys. I gave him a shed antler that I found last year and he chews on that thing a lot more then any of the store bought stuff. I wouldn’t get a lab for newer busy owners. He is very needy and gives love by chewing on people right now. Some folks may not have the patience for that type of dog. I’d get a 1 or 2 year shelter dog if it were me. BTW the petfinder site sucked for us. No responses and filled out way to much info. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:24:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
don't get it sprayed or neutered till it has finished growing, if ever. at least 18 months old preferably 2 years old. crate train, put nylon bones or kong toys in your laundry basket to get their scent on it and give the dog one just before leaving to avoid destructive chewing |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:26:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my current beast https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/312716/26703035752203-1198916.jpg he got a gaggle of titles. Working on his master hunter...has his HRCH. he's a really cool dog, can go from frothing, vibrating, adrenaline dripping psycho to a completely calm stuffed animal cuddle bum. best dog ever. especially Black Dogs. Off and On switches, especially if they live in the house. smart owners get their dogs from working stock. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:29:40 AM EDT
[#41]
My dad had raised and sold labs for 50 years. I have trained them for years and lived with them my whole life.
- labs are great family dogs, but can be high energy - as stated, their first years they teeth, they require lots of exercise - females, in general, are smaller and also sightly less high energy. -- there are exceptions to that. One of my champion females was a nuclear power plant. She was insane. I have never seen anything like it. - their attitude is often visible as puppies. In this case I would choose the most chill, slow, cautious dog I could. - this is a commitment. A 12 year commitment, it they are gonna get bored and ditch the dog, dont do it - consider getting the runt, they are smaller and often quiet - there's lots of books and videos on training but it starts day 1 - trial dogs can often be high strung. They are smart but can be to high energy - sometimes local or non hunting dogs are less high strung I love labs, they're amazing family members |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:35:39 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm in the veterinary field and have been raised around kennels, training dogs my entire life and do not recommend spaying or neutering under 2 years of age and then later on with good reason.
spaying and neutering can increase numerous problems down the road. spaying can cause low estrogen levels leading to LUSS ( urine leakage) and other issues. neutering has a dozen wives tales told about it- few of them have any merit. a lot of the S&N propaganda is perpetuated by 0 growth pet population animal right zealots. one thing I have noticed in 20 years of the veterinary field is that most women in the field or animal hobbies are fanatical about cutting the testicle's off of any animal. many of them will grin when they say it to a degree. i think its a position of power to do so. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:37:31 AM EDT
[#43]
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Except for that annoying pyometriosis, which claimed one of my ridgebacks. As with everything, there are no perfect solutions. sorry about your ridgeback. they are neat dogs. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:47:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm in the veterinary field and have been raised around kennels, training dogs my entire life and do not recommend spaying or neutering under 2 years of age and then later on with good reason. spaying and neutering can increase numerous problems down the road. spaying can cause low estrogen levels leading to LUSS ( urine leakage) and other issues. neutering has a dozen wives tales told about it- few of them have any merit. a lot of the S&N propaganda is perpetuated by 0 growth pet population animal right zealots. one thing I have noticed in 20 years of the veterinary field is that most women in the field or animal hobbies are fanatical about cutting the testicle's off of any animal. many of them will grin when they say it to a degree. i think its a position of power to do so. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 12:57:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
English Type for a house pet American Type for sporting and active people |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 1:04:19 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My dad had raised and sold labs for 50 years. I have trained them for years and lived with them my whole life. - labs are great family dogs, but can be high energy - as stated, their first years they teeth, they require lots of exercise - females, in general, are smaller and also sightly less high energy. -- there are exceptions to that. One of my champion females was a nuclear power plant. She was insane. I have never seen anything like it. - their attitude is often visible as puppies. In this case I would choose the most chill, slow, cautious dog I could. - this is a commitment. A 12 year commitment, it they are gonna get bored and ditch the dog, dont do it - consider getting the runt, they are smaller and often quiet - there's lots of books and videos on training but it starts day 1 I love labs, they're amazing family membersL |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 1:06:11 AM EDT
[#47]
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I was hoping you'd pop in here, used you in a lot of dog threads and you seem dog knowledgeable. The current plan is a lot of walking in the neighborhood. Any tips on training basic commands? They are going to want a well behaved dog. Continue on to Canine Good Citizen or Obedience/Hunter/Agility whichever they want to do. Obedience or Agility might be a stretch for a Lab though. ETA - Bitter Apple spray will be their friend. Probably. A few dogs like the taste. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 1:09:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if they're going with a dog from a breeder, they'll want to make sure all health clearances on the parents are in order. For Labs, this means both parents have had x-rays for hip and elbow dysplasia, an eye exam by a board certified ophthalmologist, a DNA test for exercise induced collapse, and a D locus DNA test. If the breeder doesn't know what these are or isn't willing to furnish the results, they need to keep looking. If the breeder doesn't have some sort of titles on their dogs, that's a big red flag. They could be titles in obedience, conformation, agility, hunting, etc, but there should be some sort of effort to show that the dogs are physically and mentally sound, good representatives of the breed through independent evaluation. If the breeder doesn't do that, they should be very skeptical. $550 is a mighty low price for a dog with appropriate health and temperament testing, but it can happen. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 1:13:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Lol. Dude.
My black lab would run her ass off, full sprint, in the southern summers, for yearsssss and still want more. Dawn to dusk. And she had a ball with her day and night until nearly the day she died. Do not let them think walking it around the block is going to take care of this dog, especially if it is a bit older and hasn't been heeled by the breeder. And, having only read a few posts, I'll echo the point that a frustrated lab will have no mercy on any item it can get its mouth on. I lost a lot of furniture and shoes, and we ran the piss out of her. But I wouldn't have traded her for the world; been gone almost 6 years, still miss her and sometimes call my current dog by her name. 
Edit: I should also add, she was great around people and in the house. But she was work through the puppy and teen years. |
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Posted: 12/17/2019 1:42:01 AM EDT
[#50]
We had a friend that was a vet for one of the guide dog services. Labs, Goldens and German Shepherds. So not stupid. but they need some working/activity. We've never had a new puppie for a range of reasons but have gotten slightly older dogs. They've been house trained and past the really goofy stage. One had been the office puppy for a vet and was ready for a home, one lab my daughter had and they couldn't keep in anew apartment for size and work reasons, and another Golden/GSD mix that also had to be given up. We have a rescued Viszla mix(?) very chocolate lab look but smaller. Haven't had a chewing problem with any of them.
The lab and Golden mix shed hair all year round. A lot. Did I mention hair? I'd also suggest considering a rescue or shelter dog. Check out the agency and reputation but they often have dogs that are at least partially trained and usually socialized. The one near us won't adopt out a dog that has problems. |
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