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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:46:23 PM EDT
[#1]
the lights all came back on after a couple storms knocked out power to the area on different occasions. these people are ridiculous. turn it off and on at the main.
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:47:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How fucking stupid are these people?  |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:48:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No idea, never had to do it! I know some serious safety precautions need to be taken when ypu turn it back on! Bunch of leather gear, huge breaker bar to counteract the spring weight.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's an interesting breaker. You only have to push the button to cut power? How loud of a pop is it when you push the button?  No idea, never had to do it! I know some serious safety precautions need to be taken when ypu turn it back on! Bunch of leather gear, huge breaker bar to counteract the spring weight.... Arc flash is no joke.  I know how much force it takes to turn a 600 or 800 amp breaker, and can only imagine what that 2,000 amp breaker would take, based on that ridiculously long operating lever. I do like the fact that it operates like a lever rifle. I've also seen videos where larger breakers actually have a screw crank you use to open and close the switch, but I think they might have been medium or high voltage switches. It's been years since I've had to watch all the safety videos, but those images are still burned into my mind. (Pun intended.  )
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:53:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They lost the little key thingy for the PLC box and can't get to the breakers. I think you nailed it! 
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:53:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being Massachusetts I'm going to guess the emergency system is generator backed. This might complicate things depending how that shitshow is wired. My building uses a Ford Inline-6 with the generator on it. It only powers the 24/7 lights and the EXIT signs. We do have a high school in district with a CoGen unit. Has 2 giant Caterpillar V16 engines that run on Nat Gas. Now that fucker can power the whole building AND the neighborhood around it. I've been told, at one point, the surrounding neighborhood was getting free electricity, courtesy of the school.  No longer the case.
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:54:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would bet if the superintendent had to turn the breakers off every night and turn the breakers on every morning the problem would get fix jiffy.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: WILBRAHAM, Mass. For nearly a year and a half, a Massachusetts high school has been lit up around the clock because the district can't turn off the roughly 7,000 lights in the sprawling building. The lighting system was installed at Minnechaug Regional High School when it was built over a decade ago and was intended to save money and energy. But ever since the software that runs it failed on Aug. 24, 2021, the lights in the Springfield suburbs school have been on continuously, costing taxpayers a small fortune. "We are very much aware this is costing taxpayers a significant amount of money," Aaron Osborne, the assistant superintendent of finance at the Hampden-Wilbraham Regional School District, told NBC News. "And we have been doing everything we can to get this problem solved." One of the cost-saving measures the school board insisted on was a "green lighting system" run on software installed by a company called 5th Light to control the lights in the building. The system was designed to save energy and thus save money by automatically adjusting the lights as needed. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lights-massachusetts-school-year-no-one-can-turn-rcna65611 The district would hire a Lighting Operator. Maybe a Lighting Administrator. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:54:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They lost the little key thingy for the PLC box and can't get to the breakers. Pick it open with a ball rake. Should take no more than 30 seconds. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:58:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arc flash is no joke. I know how much force it takes to turn a 600 or 800 amp breaker, and can only imagine what that 2,000 amp breaker would take, based on that ridiculously long operating lever. I do like the fact that it operates like a lever rifle. I've also seen videos where larger breakers actually have a screw crank you use to open and close the switch, but I think they might have been medium or high voltage switches. It's been years since I've had to watch all the safety videos, but those images are still burned into my mind. (Pun intended. )Yeah, we had an In-Service day with a gruesome slideshow about arc flash. In that picture the wall is right behind me. Maybe 3 feet of room. You are inside the yellow box. Makes me nervous as fuck.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:00:25 AM EDT
[#9]
I’m pretty sure if they wanted the lights off, they could turn the lights off.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:01:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The district would hire a Lighting Operator. Maybe a Lighting Administrator. Shit, mine would. 250k/year position probably. They're good at wasting money on useless shit. But they dont have money to fix the rusted through exterior doors that have been a safety issue for YEARS. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:17:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do know there IS no breaker panel? The software takes the place of that. It's not THAT simple.  I was a sparky, there is a damn breaker panel. I’ve worked on automated lighting control systems. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:20:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my uneducated layman's understanding of it. The PLC would be in a 24v or 120v sub-panel, motion sensors would go to the PLC inputs, and the PLC outputs would operate relays and contactors for each room's or wing's lights. There would be a circuit breaker or disconnect on both the PLC enclosure and the main panel for the lights themselves, so each panel can be locked out as needed. LO/TO is serious business. Am I close, or just making a fool of myself? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: He was talking about software, so I was thinking more about the PLC than the actual lights. I would guess that there's a smaller sub-panel somewhere for the control components, but I'm not an electrician, so this is all just an uneducated guess. Now I'm curious how the software does control the lights. I do know that everything has a breaker or disconnect, though. If it didn't, I'd feel bad for the guy who had to install it while hot. That was my uneducated layman's understanding of it. The PLC would be in a 24v or 120v sub-panel, motion sensors would go to the PLC inputs, and the PLC outputs would operate relays and contactors for each room's or wing's lights. There would be a circuit breaker or disconnect on both the PLC enclosure and the main panel for the lights themselves, so each panel can be locked out as needed. LO/TO is serious business. Am I close, or just making a fool of myself? The problem is when the electrical contractor supplies an area with a single circuit that supports more than just lighting. Mini splits require a separate on/off switch for each device, lighting does not. In many cases the only way to turn off the lights is with the automation system or turning off a breaker that also supplies other systems like computers or hvac. It would be cost prohibitive if you have to run separate circuits for lighting only. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:21:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my uneducated layman's understanding of it. The PLC would be in a 24v or 120v sub-panel, motion sensors would go to the PLC inputs, and the PLC outputs would operate relays and contactors for each room's or wing's lights. There would be a circuit breaker or disconnect on both the PLC enclosure and the main panel for the lights themselves, so each panel can be locked out as needed. LO/TO is serious business. Am I close, or just making a fool of myself? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:22:05 AM EDT
[#14]
If there isn't a manual disconnect for that system, it's an ill-built system. In fact it's downright negligent.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:24:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is when the electrical contractor supplies an area with a single circuit that supports more than just lighting. Mini splits require a separate on/off switch for each device., lighting does not. In many cases the only way to turn off the lights is with the automation system or turning off a breaker that also supplies other systems like computers or hvac. It would be cost prohibitive if you have to run separate circuits for lighting only. Mine did. Back in the 70's. Lighting is 277v, everything else (except the heavy machinery) is 120v. 24v system for security, fire, intercom. Problem is they never properly labeled the breakers. "My, my, my, why are all the Spare circuits On, and WTF do they go to?" |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:36:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine did. Back in the 70's. Lighting is 277v, everything else (except the heavy machinery) is 120v. 24v system for security, fire, intercom. Problem is they never properly labeled the breakers. "My, my, my, why are all the Spare circuits On, and WTF do they go to?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The problem is when the electrical contractor supplies an area with a single circuit that supports more than just lighting. Mini splits require a separate on/off switch for each device., lighting does not. In many cases the only way to turn off the lights is with the automation system or turning off a breaker that also supplies other systems like computers or hvac. It would be cost prohibitive if you have to run separate circuits for lighting only. Mine did. Back in the 70's. Lighting is 277v, everything else (except the heavy machinery) is 120v. 24v system for security, fire, intercom. Problem is they never properly labeled the breakers. "My, my, my, why are all the Spare circuits On, and WTF do they go to?" In modern systems it's just not reasonable to run independent circuits for 80w lights. Tap a local circuit and run a low voltage control cable, is supposed to be cheaper. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:37:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arc flash is no joke. I know how much force it takes to turn a 600 or 800 amp breaker, and can only imagine what that 2,000 amp breaker would take, based on that ridiculously long operating lever. I do like the fact that it operates like a lever rifle. I've also seen videos where larger breakers actually have a screw crank you use to open and close the switch, but I think they might have been medium or high voltage switches. It's been years since I've had to watch all the safety videos, but those images are still burned into my mind. (Pun intended. )I'm an electrician. Here's a couple 3000A pics I just took just for this thread. I'm glad the dude who said there's no breaker panel got dogpiled lol. I guess all those 277V lights have zero overcurrent or ground fault protection huh. No means to lock out either.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:40:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How fucking stupid are school administrators? Seriously. No matter what fancy computer controls you put in, there is 100% guaranteed a disconnect between the power feed and the controls. More likely they're afraid if they shut it down the lights won't turn back on, which is possible. It's still not that hard a fix for a summer project, so it goes back to my first statement above. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guarantee there is a breaker or three that would shut the whole thing down and still leave other items on. How fucking stupid are school administrators? Seriously. No matter what fancy computer controls you put in, there is 100% guaranteed a disconnect between the power feed and the controls. More likely they're afraid if they shut it down the lights won't turn back on, which is possible. It's still not that hard a fix for a summer project, so it goes back to my first statement above. Lighting systems fail with the contacts closed (ON). So, you need the controls to work to energize the relay to turn off the lights (if wired NC, when relay turns on it opens contact). Breakers will still turn out the lights though. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:47:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A ten year old automation system isn't all that old.  If you read the article they talk about having to get the controllers from China and the company that put it in originally had changed names and was no longer around. No doubt they used the lowest bid contractor for the work the GC or the school whoever hired them. Lighting is part of our projects we do swapping out to all LEDs and occupancy sensors. I've never heard of the system they mentioned, but when we do lighting if they have lighting contactors we just tie it into the HVAC control system. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:50:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work high school maintenance. My building was built in the late 70's. All the lights for every area have their own panel. Separate panel for recepticles. I find it extremely difficult to believe they "cannot shut them off". We have building automation too. Guess what? YOU CAN MANUALLY OVERRIDE EVERYTHING!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guarantee there is a breaker or three that would shut the whole thing down and still leave other items on. I work high school maintenance. My building was built in the late 70's. All the lights for every area have their own panel. Separate panel for recepticles. I find it extremely difficult to believe they "cannot shut them off". We have building automation too. Guess what? YOU CAN MANUALLY OVERRIDE EVERYTHING!!!! Modern construction, lighting circuits are probably mixed with plug and HVAC circuits in each panel. You're talking about going to dozens if not hundreds of panels (if a larger school) and turning off specific breakers, and then turning them back on... every day. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:51:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a breaker somewhere that feeds it regardless of the controls. The real problem is an abrupt power disruption usually fucks up the software and lights end up not coming back on. We’re experiencing this first hard at our office with a piece of shit lighting system I manage I’m betting if the lights didn’t come back in you’d see some pretty quick solutions. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:52:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Building automation is such a shitshow. Causes more problems than it solves Sure, if you hire retards. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:53:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lighting systems fail with the contacts closed (ON). So, you need the controls to work to energize the relay to turn off the lights (if wired NC, when relay turns on it opens contact). Breakers will still turn out the lights though. Normal constant power is used as a control circuit to initiate transfer to emergency power when it drops out. You can't turn off emergency circuits. If they're backing up the complete lighting load, I can see the problem. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 12:55:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And it's only getting worse. Performance contracting is a scam. They spend thousands and thousand of dollars on Niagra or similar supervisor systems, then let Joe Lawnmower try to run it. Save the money, send Joe Lawnmore to school, invest in your people not the hoo-doo AI software. Rant off. That's the problem with Niagara. Literally anyone can buy it from any number of distributors with virtually zero oversight. So you end up with a bunch of mouth breathers that sell "controls" and fuck up everything they touch. Like all things, quality costs a premium over garbage contractors. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:01:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm an electrician. Here's a couple 3000A pics I just took just for this thread. I'm glad the dude who said there's no breaker panel got dogpiled lol. I guess all those 277V lights have zero overcurrent or ground fault protection huh. No means to lock out either. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425939/20230123_203217_jpg-2683342.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425939/20230123_203143_jpg-2683343.JPG How much does that fucker weigh? Damn! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:04:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Skynet lights. It’s the TVs next
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:05:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much does that fucker weigh? Damn! Probably about 20lbs or so. They cost $4,000 |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:09:23 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Modern construction, lighting circuits are probably mixed with plug and HVAC circuits in each panel. You're talking about going to dozens if not hundreds of panels (if a larger school) and turning off specific breakers, and then turning them back on... every day. Let me think....I would have to hit........5 whole panels in 5 rooms on 3rd floor, 4 panels in 4 rooms on 2nd floor, and 11 different panels in 11 different places on 1st floor. So 20 panels with ~25 active circuits each -/+. Yeah, thats a lot of flipping. ETA: Damn it, I forgot about 3 panels on 2ndcand 3rd floor. ETA2: Also forgot to say, our lighting is not on automation, still on hallway security switches. So I dont actually have to do that! We did retrofit the halls and most classrooms with motion sensor LED lights. Some are programmed, some are not. We never got around to putting them all on automation. Probably because we never finished the building, and for whatever reason we are NOT getting more.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:09:29 AM EDT
[#29]
There’s never been a more incompetent entity to work for, as an electrician, then the DOE. they’re literally the worst client ever for a myriad of reasons and this shit isn’t surprising at all. They’ve made their bed, now sleep in it
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:11:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably about 20lbs or so. They cost $4,000 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How much does that fucker weigh? Damn! Probably about 20lbs or so. They cost $4,000 Wonder how long the smell lingers if it burns up?
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:12:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is when the electrical contractor supplies an area with a single circuit that supports more than just lighting. Mini splits require a separate on/off switch for each device, lighting does not. In many cases the only way to turn off the lights is with the automation system or turning off a breaker that also supplies other systems like computers or hvac. It would be cost prohibitive if you have to run separate circuits for lighting only. What fucking retarded MEP engineers do you work with that don't have dedicated lighting circuits in commercial buildings? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:16:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do know there IS no breaker panel? The software takes the place of that. It's not THAT simple. There is a master power breaker. Betting by code. Even if there weren’t. There is something the software resides on. Pull it, replace with one that works, while you de-install that POS and return it to a usable system. Or, how about this: Call the company you bought this crap from, and tell them to fix their shit. No love? Court. Worst case, rip all their shit out and replace with OEM. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:18:49 AM EDT
[#33]
These are the leftists that are smarter than everybody
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:19:09 AM EDT
[#34]
School faculty are African level corrupt and stupid. And will NEVER suffer the consequences of their decisions.
Once you understand that. Things like this make a lot more sense. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:20:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're good. That's the basic plan. Contactors can be normally open or normally closed, usually NO. So killing power just to the PLC side could dump the contactors also, depends how their wired, they can be "latching". Or open the breaker on the line side of the contactor. Same effect. They can also weld the contacts together, but that’s a completely different set of problems.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:20:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: COMcheck energy code shit. Thank the .gov... This man knows. And it’s driven by the Internationl Energy Conservation Code (IECC)… which gets more retarded every year. They’re now requiring plug loads to be controlled too! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:22:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm an electrician. Here's a couple 3000A pics I just took just for this thread. I'm glad the dude who said there's no breaker panel got dogpiled lol. I guess all those 277V lights have zero overcurrent or ground fault protection huh. No means to lock out either. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425939/20230123_203217_jpg-2683342.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425939/20230123_203143_jpg-2683343.JPG Awesome pics!  So, have you ever pushed the big red button?
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:24:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And it's only getting worse. Performance contracting is a scam. They spend thousands and thousand of dollars on Niagra or similar supervisor systems, then let Joe Lawnmower try to run it. Save the money, send Joe Lawnmore to school, invest in your people not the hoo-doo AI software. Rant off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Building automation is such a shitshow. Causes more problems than it solves And it's only getting worse. Performance contracting is a scam. They spend thousands and thousand of dollars on Niagra or similar supervisor systems, then let Joe Lawnmower try to run it. Save the money, send Joe Lawnmore to school, invest in your people not the hoo-doo AI software. Rant off. I've been doing building automation and HVAC controls for 16 years now. All our division's work is performance contracts. We even guarantee the savings. Joe Lawnmower gets a 24/7 number to call for any issues. I have had to teach a school maintenance guy how to use a mouse with a computer one time though, lol. He was like a year or two from retirement and never used a computer before. I had another maintenance crew that wanted nothing to do with the automation system. I was training them on it and the one they call "MacGyver" (usually not a good nickname for a maintenance guy) piped up and said you mean I don't have to walk every school in the morning now I can just login here and see what all the temperatures are in the morning. I'm like yes this is supposed to help ya'll out not make your life harder. Here you can even see the supply temperature of the units to see if it's actually heating/cooling as well. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:28:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Anybody try clapping twice?
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:32:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome pics! So, have you ever pushed the big red button? Can't say I have. They tend to frown upon shutting the plant down like that
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:33:57 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder how long the smell lingers if it burns up? Probably quite some time. I've never seen one blow but I know it has happened before. I have seen 2500A breakers trip a couple times. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:50:06 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't say I have. They tend to frown upon shutting the plant down like that Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Awesome pics! So, have you ever pushed the big red button? Can't say I have. They tend to frown upon shutting the plant down like that Knowing how loud some of the larger breakers are when they snap open or shut, I'm just curious how loud it would be, especially being spring-loaded like that. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:50:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been doing building automation and HVAC controls for 16 years now. All our division's work is performance contracts. We even guarantee the savings. Joe Lawnmower gets a 24/7 number to call for any issues. I have had to teach a school maintenance guy how to use a mouse with a computer one time though, lol. He was like a year or two from retirement and never used a computer before. I had another maintenance crew that wanted nothing to do with the automation system. I was training them on it and the one they call "MacGyver" (usually not a good nickname for a maintenance guy) piped up and said you mean I don't have to walk every school in the morning now I can just login here and see what all the temperatures are in the morning. I'm like yes this is supposed to help ya'll out not make your life harder. Here you can even see the supply temperature of the units to see if it's actually heating/cooling as well. Our HVAC system has issues with UniVents for the exterior classrooms. Always issues with OA dampers, never go into cooling when it hits temp so the room overheats, we still have to manually turn on circ pumps and chiller units because they just dont want to run on the automation.....been that way ever since I worked here. The Trane tech damn near lives here. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:51:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Probably quite some time. I've never seen one blow but I know it has happened before. I have seen 2500A breakers trip a couple times. Quoted: Knowing how loud some of the larger breakers are when they snap open or shut, I'm just curious how loud it would be, especially being spring-loaded like that. I imagine someone will need new pants.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 1:56:00 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Normal constant power is used as a control circuit to initiate transfer to emergency power when it drops out. You can't turn off emergency circuits. If they're backing up the complete lighting load, I can see the problem. For us that trips the back up gen which powers the 24/7 emergency lights and the exit signs. Emergency circuits have breakers too. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:04:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our HVAC system has issues with UniVents for the exterior classrooms. Always issues with OA dampers, never go into cooling when it hits temp so the room overheats, we still have to manually turn on circ pumps and chiller units because they just dont want to run on the automation.....been that way ever since I worked here. The Trane tech damn near lives here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been doing building automation and HVAC controls for 16 years now. All our division's work is performance contracts. We even guarantee the savings. Joe Lawnmower gets a 24/7 number to call for any issues. I have had to teach a school maintenance guy how to use a mouse with a computer one time though, lol. He was like a year or two from retirement and never used a computer before. I had another maintenance crew that wanted nothing to do with the automation system. I was training them on it and the one they call "MacGyver" (usually not a good nickname for a maintenance guy) piped up and said you mean I don't have to walk every school in the morning now I can just login here and see what all the temperatures are in the morning. I'm like yes this is supposed to help ya'll out not make your life harder. Here you can even see the supply temperature of the units to see if it's actually heating/cooling as well. Our HVAC system has issues with UniVents for the exterior classrooms. Always issues with OA dampers, never go into cooling when it hits temp so the room overheats, we still have to manually turn on circ pumps and chiller units because they just dont want to run on the automation.....been that way ever since I worked here. The Trane tech damn near lives here. Yes, I've come across several buildings like that. Don't get me started on Trane. Every year it seems their shit becomes more and more proprietary. The bid and spec world is completely different. Those guys don't really care if anything works as long as it makes it past the 1 year warranty. Then they're on to the next bid spec job. The people following up on them to see if it works don't really understand the system enough to find issues. They assume well it's comfortable right now guess it's working properly. We have to guarantee the savings for 15 years, so the effort is there to make sure everything is installed and operating as it's supposed to. All control companies are not created equal and even within the same company you can have different divisions. We have a bid and spec side of the business as well as performance contracting. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:22:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For us that trips the back up gen which powers the 24/7 emergency lights and the exit signs. Emergency circuits have breakers too. School lighting systems I've installed here have normal and emergency branch circuits fed to local transfer relays; basically normal input, emergency input, switched input, switched output and emergency output. We typically put 2 lights on the emergency output, per classroom. Emergency panels are fed from an ATS, which of course, are fed by both normal and gen power. Generator start-up and transfer are initiated when the service drops out and lag is handled by a capacitor bank. Exits lighting, fed by emergency branch circuits only. Yes, I know emergency circuits have breakers... When I said "can't", I'm saying it's not good safe practice or legal to use said breaker as a stop-gap form of lighting control; especially if they are backing up 100% of the lighting load, either locally or before lighting control. It blows my mind, they apparently do not have manual off override switches for the classrooms or hallways. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:53:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It blows my mind, they apparently do not have manual off override switches for the classrooms or hallways. Minor oversight. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:05:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What fucking retarded MEP engineers do you work with that don't have dedicated lighting circuits in commercial buildings? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The problem is when the electrical contractor supplies an area with a single circuit that supports more than just lighting. Mini splits require a separate on/off switch for each device, lighting does not. In many cases the only way to turn off the lights is with the automation system or turning off a breaker that also supplies other systems like computers or hvac. It would be cost prohibitive if you have to run separate circuits for lighting only. What fucking retarded MEP engineers do you work with that don't have dedicated lighting circuits in commercial buildings? Cost plus. You can spend your budget running new conduit for 80w lights or you can tap local circuits and buy better lights. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:12:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cost plus. You can spend your budget running new conduit for 80w lights or you can tap local circuits and buy better lights. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The problem is when the electrical contractor supplies an area with a single circuit that supports more than just lighting. Mini splits require a separate on/off switch for each device, lighting does not. In many cases the only way to turn off the lights is with the automation system or turning off a breaker that also supplies other systems like computers or hvac. It would be cost prohibitive if you have to run separate circuits for lighting only. What fucking retarded MEP engineers do you work with that don't have dedicated lighting circuits in commercial buildings? Cost plus. You can spend your budget running new conduit for 80w lights or you can tap local circuits and buy better lights. The best part about upgrades like that will be some minor repair 10 years from now, when all the drawings are lost and everyone involved has moved on or retired.
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