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Posted: 10/13/2022 9:55:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I suspect Russia is coercing him. Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 9:57:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: Most of their real men were killed during the First World War. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: Originally Posted By ludder093: Btw. Fuck Emmanuel Macron... What is it with the French and being such pussies?
Most of their real men were killed during the First World War. So you do want a world War? |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 9:58:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Star_Scream]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 9:59:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: What a waste.
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:00:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. Perhaps they threatened to destroy his satellites. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:01:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Banditman: how is this costing that much after the Satellites are in orbit and infrastructure is in place? Yea Thats an interesting question. Maybe pulling ground station relays from other paying places and higher costs to get them where they need to be in ukr. There are probably a few people working on anti jamming activities and comms security. I could see if he is providing basically battlefield sat coms that he has a team of people just focused on this deployment and its effectiveness. Its a really good test for starlink though. If he can keep it up and running in an active war zone with russian attempting to subvert and jam it should be worth it to him. But maybe they have that all figured out now. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:02:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Banditman: how is this costing that much after the Satellites are in orbit and infrastructure is in place? The resources fighting Russian IT and the thousands of terminals that cost 500+ Delivery by the truck load to the front at a time when Starlink is not rolling in profits and is still pre-profit. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:02:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: Opportunity cost. There are MANY people in the USA and around the world who have been waiting years for Starlink service. SpaceX has a limited capacity to provide the service and is now tying up quite a bit of capacity providing service in UKR for free when it could be generating revenue from paying customers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: Originally Posted By Banditman: Originally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By mercersfinest4: In all fairness, why would SpaceX, a private enterprise, be expected to provide free equipment and service in UKR? None of our defense contractors are providing free arms. The government should be picking up the tab for this. Good point. Musk has pissed me off a bit lately, but he has done more than his share to help, too. how is this costing that much after the Satellites are in orbit and infrastructure is in place? Opportunity cost. There are MANY people in the USA and around the world who have been waiting years for Starlink service. SpaceX has a limited capacity to provide the service and is now tying up quite a bit of capacity providing service in UKR for free when it could be generating revenue from paying customers. They are mostly intact. I don't see how they are using that much width. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:02:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Lets see. Musk gives away $80 million of Starlink and services to Ukraine. After a good amount of time, Musk says this war needs to stop and Russia and Ukraine needs to negotiate before the nukes fly. The Ukrainian president calls Musk bad names and all of the Ukrainian supporters want Musk to go away and die. Musk says if you don't want me to be involved and I can''t say what I think then the free ride is over you ungrateful people. You don't have to do what I say, but I should at least be able to put out my opinion.
Probably the plan all along was to get them hooked and then charge. Maybe no plan but I am sure making money quickly came up. I am sure when Zelensky called Musk out, Musk got tired of the handouts rather quickly. Zelensky and his supporters should have been nicer to their patrons, especially the ones not using taxpayers dollars. Not a Russian troll. We built the weapons to kill Russians. Give them to Ukraine so they can be used for their intended purpose. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:04:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan To create buzz in another direction to distract from major moves wrt the Twitter acquisition. He made major moves on that a few days later and so far, it appears to be working. One is of critical importance to him, the other inconsequential. It all looks completely logical from a Musk/SpaceX/Twitter perspective. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:04:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
That makes my blood boil more than many things going on over there. This is why I say sanctions on Russia can't end until they've had a national census overseen by international (western) monitors to ensure EVERY kidnapped Ukrainian has the opportunity to go home. Fuck every Russian who keeps a kidnapped Ukrainian kid, even if they are orphans. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:04:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m:  Pallets? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Prime: They're either learning or too lazy to get those weird flat boxes out of the way before they set stuff down.
Pallets? It's probably like programming the time on a VCR so it stops blinking 12:00, they got a kid to do it. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:05:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Perhaps they threatened to destroy his satellites. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. Perhaps they threatened to destroy his satellites. Musk satellite network is the least susceptible to physical destruction of any network ever made. They’d have to do a full Kessler syndrome for that. So no. He’s not afraid of Russia doing that. His satellites are not in real danger. Russia would never attempt to do a full Kessler syndrome if they even had the capability. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:06:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: They also ordered 500 HIMARS, which is insane as that how many the US had in total. For reference, Ukraine has been causing havoc with ~16 of them. https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/07/poland-himars-us/ Between M270 MLRS, HIMARS and MARS/MARS2 Ukraine has closer to 50 of them in service, now with additional units on the way. The initial 16 were just the seed offering. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:06:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Related to this, when I would look at combat pictures of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, I cant recall them ever having a shovel or spade / entrenching tool in their kit. I guess holes werent dug then? Is carrying an E-tool still SOP, or going to make a comeback? In Afghanistan units didnt dig in too much. The biggest risks were getting ambushed while on the move, or stepping on an IED while on the move. Stationary, after dark, US had NODs, and the enemy attacking was very unlikely. And digging in could be noisy and give your position away. Under those very specific conditions it was better to be quiet and not let anyone know exactly where you are, so you didn't walk into an ambush the next morning, or let the enemy pinpoint your location and lay mines and IEDs nearby. I cant think of a dismounted unit getting hit in the dark while stationary. Id say it will make a comeback. Picture a recon patrol moving through the jungles of Vietnam. Or Ukrainian SOF behind Russian lines. If the enemy doesn't know where they are, pulling out an e-tool and whanging a hole at 10pm doesn't help. In Afghanistan it was more pronounced as we could see infinitely better, and making a ton of noise is how you would get detected. In a few cases, like if troops were going to occupy a compound and wait for trouble to arrive, they'd bring e-tools, but it was to fill some sandbags to put on the roof. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:06:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fe-SttSX0AA18la?format=jpg&name=900x900 Man few things are as telling about a society and people as how they treat their pets… pets are at our mercy. If you’re cruel to them… well we all know if you love them you stand a much better chance at being civilized. Someone better than me can explain the high level analysis |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:07:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan I’m with you on that. It makes no sense and is out of character for him. Being a billionaire doesn’t make you immortal. Maybe Putin got a message across to him. |
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NPL
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:08:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Banditman: how is this costing that much after the Satellites are in orbit and infrastructure is in place? |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:10:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-goals-ukraine-may-143440101.html What wankers. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:10:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:14:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: Originally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. I don't trust ANYTHING from CNN. They would sell kidneys to discredit Musk. It's a cabal. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:16:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: What wankers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By ludder093: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-goals-ukraine-may-143440101.html What wankers. Incompetent? Delusional? Insane? In denial? Take your pick. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:18:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: In Afghanistan units didnt dig in too much. The biggest risks were getting ambushed while on the move, or stepping on an IED while on the move. Stationary, after dark, US had NODs, and the enemy attacking was very unlikely. And digging in could be noisy and give your position away. Under those very specific conditions it was better to be quiet and not let anyone know exactly where you are, so you didn't walk into an ambush the next morning, or let the enemy pinpoint your location and lay mines and IEDs nearby. I cant think if a dismounted unit getting hit in the dark while stationary. Id say it will make a comeback. Picture a recon patrol moving through the jungles of Vietnam. Or Ukrainian SOF behind Russian lines. If the enemy doesn't know where they are, pulling out an e-tool and whanging a hole doesn't help. In Afghanistan it was more pronounced as we could see infinitely better, and making a ton of noise is how you would get detected. I guess fighting a COIN is different than fighting a peer combined arms conflict. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:19:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: Originally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. There is honestly a good middle ground. After Russia resorted to open torture, murder, concentration camps, kidnapping, looting, and general thievery... The middle ground is the continued existence of their shitty state after they haul their sad sack back home. "But muh Russia has dem nuklars" If they had tortured and murdered your family, would you give a fuck? |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:20:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I guess fighting a COIN is different than fighting a peer combined arms conflict. Yea Afghanistan wasn't really about physically holding land like this war. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:21:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan Because his only goal is to avoid nuclear war and unnecessary destruction. He doesn't care if one country comes out ahead of another, his main goal in life right now is to get humans off earth, to be able to survive end of the world events like nuclear wars and asteroid strikes. Musk has been pretty clear on the matter, he doesn't care if he or his companies do it first, as long as someone does it. He has openly challenged everyone and anyone to copy SpaceX and do it better. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif ERA on a van, how does that work |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:25:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: I’m with you on that. It makes no sense and is out of character for him. Being a billionaire doesn’t make you immortal. Maybe Putin got a message across to him. That would be just my luck...become a self-made billionaire, single, banging (and impregnating) hot crazy chicks, have my own spaceship fleet...just when the world decides to self destruct. I'd be trying to calm shit down too so I could live THAT life. Musk is so unpredictable, it's hard to know if Putin has something on him, made some threats about palladium tea, or he just loves old Steven Segal movies.. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:26:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Leader: Because his only goal is to avoid nuclear war and unnecessary destruction. He doesn't care if one country comes out ahead of another, his main goal in life right now is to get humans off earth, to be able to survive end of the world events like nuclear wars and asteroid strikes. Musk has been pretty clear on the matter, he doesn't care if he or his companies do it first, as long as someone does it. He has openly challenged everyone and anyone to copy SpaceX and do it better. I tried to write this and failed. This is spot on. Conflict is bad for his space plans. His main goal now is Mars everything else is just ancillary. The US and Russia in a huge proxy war that maybe becomes non proxy is a problem. Also I am sure that he is under pressure from Moscow. He basically singlehandedly dismantled what was left of their space industry. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:29:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: What wankers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By ludder093: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-goals-ukraine-may-143440101.html What wankers. Let's talk - starting point: Russia gives up all nuclear weapons and accepts inspections without limits, Russia take a national census with international monitors to return EVERY Ukrainian to Ukraine regardless of age, Russia accepts Ukraine's borders & sovereignty just as it agreed to in 1996 and 97. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:32:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: What a waste.
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:33:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: Originally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. Pretty sure he was asked and not just by the Ukraine. One doesn’t say no to the people who hold your permit keys to launch. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:35:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: In all fairness, why would SpaceX, a private enterprise, be expected to provide free equipment and service in UKR? None of our defense contractors are providing free arms. The government should be picking up the tab for this. Without knowing more details, this is where I'm at on this issue too. After my modest donation the gentlemanfarmer, I would be unhappy (and broke) if I was expected to do it every day. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:36:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Pretty sure he was asked and not just by the Ukraine. One doesn’t say no to the people who hold your permit keys to launch. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Originally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Please. What exact power does Russia have over elon musk. They’ve been enemies with spacex for 20 years and Spacex and musk has absolutely dunked on them over and over in the last 7 years. I am really curious as to why he tried to promote such a heavily Russian biased peace plan He is a fully autistic twitter addict dipping his toes into politics when he is in way over his head. “The middle ground” is not something we should be encouraging now. Russia is the bad guys and Ukraine should win. End of story. Musk decided to make an off hand unwanted advice to “just go with a peace treaty and end the killing, you can’t really win Ukraine” Dumb shit to say while tens of thousands of people are fighting and dying in dirt holes alone and scared in their homeland for the idea of freedom. It’s kind of like trump. THINK AND WAIT before you shoot off your mouth bud. But alas it’s the same guy who decided to donate his world leading satellite network to them because it was the right thing to do. Saw ahead and did it without being asked. Take the good with the bad. Pretty sure he was asked and not just by the Ukraine. One doesn’t say no to the people who hold your permit keys to launch. Russia has no say with anything with spacex. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:36:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gentlemanfarmer]
[#35]
Second trip to the Indiana jones GSA storage facility this time with petzels, gloves, and a bivy sack to sling stuff into instead of the floor.
Appreciate the help guys good night. Musk like all very successful people has to be a narcissist. Narcissist don’t care about the grubby humanity. Only the virtue signal points of pretending to care. Those satellites require permits etc. they only help Ukraine while in Orbit there. He’s getting subsidized by Uncle Sam or the DOD cia etc. He probably got a pulonium tea on the way or else message and doesn’t want to live under constant 24/7 security details. I imagine a body guard detail watching you party is a bummer. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:46:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Terrible news from Romchyk Matsyuta, in Kherson, in his own apartment, the orcs shot Yura Kerpatenko, our fellow student, a talented musician, the conductor of the Kherson theater. For refusing to cooperate. I can't even find words.
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USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:47:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Source is 100% vatnik ball gargler.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 10:48:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Related to this, when I would look at combat pictures of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, I cant recall them ever having a shovel or spade / entrenching tool in their kit. I guess holes werent dug then? Is carrying an E-tool still SOP, or going to make a comeback? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By CharlieR: Yes. The biggest advantage of trenches is they usually have communications trenches leading up to them from the rear, so if you are in a static front for a long time, with snipers galore, NCOs can check up on their grunts, you can come and go, get resupplied with chow, take a dump, do it all below ground. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Schwaben_Redoubt_aerial_photograph_10-05-1916_IWM_HU_91107.jpg/440px-Schwaben_Redoubt_aerial_photograph_10-05-1916_IWM_HU_91107.jpg But a trench is impossible to camouflage, don’t have overhead cover, and are very vulnerable to drones and proximity fuses. I suspect both sides got used to them 2014-2021 and don’t know any better. The US went to foxholes, along with everyone else, mostly, in WWII. Easier to dig when your halted for a short while, camouflage, and put overhead cover on. Generally, dogfaces had to stay put in their holes sunup to sundown, or get shot. But if the enemy lines aren’t that close, and you’re getting pounded by artillery and UAVs, a better bet then a trench. https://i.redd.it/e2xmh39ycoaz.jpg You need some lumber for a roof but I can’t imagine how we can supply HIMARS and not wood and sandbags. There was a US officer in WWI, named Depuy, who became indignant that Germans dug better holes then us. They would put a berm of dirt in the front and if suppressed, shoot around the side of their cover and catch the attacker in a crossfire. A US trooper had to duck down in the bottom of his hole and couldn’t stick his head up. Think of Private Blythe in BoB. 30 years later, Depuy made the Army conduct tests on what the best type of hole was, statistically prove his hole was better, and change the FMs to choose his type of hole. He happened to be correct, and we’ve done it that way ever since. The US Army fighting position is easier to put overhead cover on, and camouflage. https://media.defense.gov/2013/Jan/15/2001177900/-1/-1/0/801921-U-LUD04-229.jpg https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/NINTCHDBPICT000732855970.jpg Wonderful bit of history, thank you. I spent most of my time in as light infantry, but back in the stone age when I was in, IIRC, the order of construction went: hasty fighting position, primary fighting position with overhead cover, clearing the fields of fire (FoF), secondary fighting position which covered the same FoF, alternate fighting position and then you connected it all with what I think were called communication trenches. Someone whose mind isn't half gone can correct me but I think that was the order. Anyway, it was lots and lots and lots of digging. Related to this, when I would look at combat pictures of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, I cant recall them ever having a shovel or spade / entrenching tool in their kit. I guess holes werent dug then? Is carrying an E-tool still SOP, or going to make a comeback? METT-T/Different mission. We did a significant abound of digging, but there is a huge difference between fighting a mobile insurgent force and a large conventional fight. Plus, much of Afghanistan is rocky and mountainous terrain, while Ukraine is fertile plains. In Iraq, much of our force was vehicle-mounted or was operating in built up areas, and, generally, neither the mission nor the terrain was favorable to dug-in stationary individual fighting positions. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:02:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Very good podcast series. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:05:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#40]
Mobik clap back for Vlad. See link in tweet for more details.
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:08:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762:
That sounds like a plausible reason. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Source: CNN "sources familiar". Yeah I'll hold off on believing that or the reasons behind it if it's true.
That sounds like a plausible reason. $11M a month for tactical comms is a steal. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:10:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#42]
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:12:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: I’m with you on that. It makes no sense and is out of character for him. Being a billionaire doesn’t make you immortal. Maybe Putin got a message across to him. I expect he is simply looking at a compromise to end the war, in a situation where a compromise is not at all appropriate. He's also probably tired of giving away his service and would like to get back to making money and running his company. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:18:54 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:21:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dp226: Lets see. Musk gives away $80 million of Starlink and services to Ukraine. After a good amount of time, Musk says this war needs to stop and Russia and Ukraine needs to negotiate before the nukes fly. The Ukrainian president calls Musk bad names and all of the Ukrainian supporters want Musk to go away and die. Musk says if you don't want me to be involved and I can''t say what I think then the free ride is over you ungrateful people. You don't have to do what I say, but I should at least be able to put out my opinion. Probably the plan all along was to get them hooked and then charge. Maybe no plan but I am sure making money quickly came up. I am sure when Zelensky called Musk out, Musk got tired of the handouts rather quickly. Zelensky and his supporters should have been nicer to their patrons, especially the ones not using taxpayers dollars. Not a Russian troll. We built the weapons to kill Russians. Give them to Ukraine so they can be used for their intended purpose. Yeah, that was my first thought when everybody started laying into Musk in public. He gave away a whole bunch of stuff without being asked. His statements about Ukraine were shitty to say and he should have just kept quiet. But nobody asked him for the starlink in the first place, he just gave it over. So maybe he deserves a second chance before laying into the narcisist in public. He never had to side with Ukraine over russia in the first place, but he absolutely did. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:29:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762:
That sounds like a plausible reason. You’ll never convince the haters. |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:30:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#47]
In reference to musk and the starlink crap, I think the price pretty much exceeded his expectation of what he was willing to dole out of pocket. I cant really blame him if the cost is really up to 100 mil. thats not a smart business move on his part. Plus why not have the taxpayer pick up the tab, since we already are on all the rest. I dont think russia is coercing him and i dont him and zelensky got into a tiff, I believe its just business.
edited: then again, maybe Musk doesnt like plutonium tea all that well.. 
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:34:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
He did all that while wearing a pink fanny pack too!! what a stud! |
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:35:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: ERA on a van, how does that work Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By HIPPO:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif ERA on a van, how does that work Whats ERA doing?
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Posted: 10/13/2022 11:47:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Whats ERA doing? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By HIPPO:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif ERA on a van, how does that work Whats ERA doing? An ERA block might stop a small caliber round/fragments but will not be detonated by a small caliber round/fragments. It won’t stop a large caliber round by itself and will kill you by detonating, but the large caliber round would kill you anyway. It doesn’t really have a downside except a bigger mess if a tank shell hits you. |
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