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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:46:40 PM EDT
[#1]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:50:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Earlier I posted a tweet and a picture showing a the wounded face of a guy who was sitting at the kitchen table with his wife when a russian missile struck their apartment complex. Just found another tweet that includes a picture of his wife.
 Putin needs to burn in hell. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:56:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Hopefully it disrupted large groupings |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:57:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amanbearpig: Yep, that's kind of my point.  People hear 'The US has biolabs in Ukraine' and this is true, and in a post Covid world it sounds sinister. The fact that the propaganda worked so well is not because people took some completely made up story and ran with it, but because the US did sponsor research for the Biological Threat Reduction Program. That is why the propaganda took hold, because their was a kernel of truth in there. Now clearly this doesn't mean the US was developing biological weapons there, but again, that's kind of why the propaganda was so clever.True, and what made it so tough to get folks to understand. I have no trouble believing russia would introduce a plant or animal disease into Ukraine if it were to their benefit. A bio lab is 90% identifying, comparing, and finding treatment. Most have zero interest in making one worse. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:59:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: India and China HATE each other. The stick fights are awesome. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:00:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By reb0957: 100% correct! They will probably spin it as Zelensky is firing people that cut in on his grift! Imagine if we would start doing that here???? We wouldn't have a government! The way R0N was spinning it yesterday was this: it was a few sacrificial calfs, so the mountain of graft underneath would not be touched. E.g. - “It’s just smoke and mirrors and there’s lots more because, - ah, just trust me, because I know all about it.” + border wall. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:01:24 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:02:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Without further details that doesn't mean much Hopefully it disrupted large groupings Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Hopefully it disrupted large groupings Usually when War monitor mentions over 5 groupings hit, Russian casualties are pretty high. My guess is tomorrow's tally will be near or over 700 dead. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:02:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: The way R0N was spinning it yesterday was this: it was a few sacrificial calfs, so the mountain of graft underneath would not be touched. E.g. - "It's just smoke and mirrors and there's lots more because, - ah, just trust me, because I know all about it." + border wall. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:03:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GTLandser]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: That is a main problem many have. They spot off about billions just being sent there so zelensky can play scrooge mc duck in his mansion. 90% of it is hard goods. Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, supplies, medical gear, you know, all the shit you need to fight a war. I do my best to not call names and explain what is happening, but it is tough when someone who only listens to tucker wants to show their ass. The dod is cleaning out the closets and sending old and some expired cold wars shit and putting a monetary value on it. M113 apc's are part of that "money". Shit we have been making reefs out of. It's cheaper to send old missiles there to kill commies, add it to the "money" and not have to pay to demil it. Seriously, how do you educate anyone who calls you a liar and it is actually just money being sent? Whoops. Just QFTing and bolding for emphasis (what many people fail to understand because they were never familiar with USG or DoD budgeting)! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:04:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Imagine this hunting you.  
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:04:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HELOBRAVO: I would think that there would be sufficient infantry support for the tank as part of a deal to get them and also provided to secure the crew and destroy the tank if necessary. Western tanks, western tactics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HELOBRAVO: Originally Posted By johnh57: I'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. I would think that there would be sufficient infantry support for the tank as part of a deal to get them and also provided to secure the crew and destroy the tank if necessary. Western tanks, western tactics. Yes, that’s all in place/on the way. There was announcement of more Bradleys, Strykers, hummers, etc. to help round out western-type armoured brigades. A substantial amount of sp artillery is in place, etc. They can build it that way if they want; the pieces, training, etc. are in place or flowing. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:06:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: That is a main problem many have. They spot off about billions just being sent there so zelensky can play scrooge mc duck in his mansion. 90% of it is hard goods. Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, supplies, medical gear, you know, all the shit you need to fight a war. I do my best to not call names and explain what is happening, but it is tough when someone who only listens to tucker wants to show their ass. The dod is cleaning out the closets and sending old and some expired cold wars shit and putting a monetary value on it. M113 apc's are part of that "money". Shit we have been making reefs out of. It's cheaper to send old missiles there to kill commies, add it to the "money" and not have to pay to demil it. Seriously, how do you educate anyone who calls you a liar and it is actually just money being sent? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... That is a main problem many have. They spot off about billions just being sent there so zelensky can play scrooge mc duck in his mansion. 90% of it is hard goods. Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, supplies, medical gear, you know, all the shit you need to fight a war. I do my best to not call names and explain what is happening, but it is tough when someone who only listens to tucker wants to show their ass. The dod is cleaning out the closets and sending old and some expired cold wars shit and putting a monetary value on it. M113 apc's are part of that "money". Shit we have been making reefs out of. It's cheaper to send old missiles there to kill commies, add it to the "money" and not have to pay to demil it. Seriously, how do you educate anyone who calls you a liar and it is actually just money being sent? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:09:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: India and China HATE each other. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By johnh57: Hmm, I thought Russia, China, and India were combining as trade partners to knock off the dollar as the global trading currency. India and China HATE each other. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:12:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Here is a good breakdown of how the aid works, if you are interested. Specifically Q3 & Q4 break down the mil aid part. It details how the different funds work. Of the first 68 billion, nearly 11 billion was allocated to the US military for additional deployments, logistics, ISR missions, etc. This is from November, so it doesn't reflect the latest allocation in the omnibus. https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukraine-explained-six-charts Edit: I'll add, billions won't even actually be spent for years in advance. Nearly 10 billion isn't due to be spend until 2026 or after. That's because when news comes out "US sends 1 billion aid package including, X, Y, and Z" that's not money being spent. It is just getting a value put on it, and what is actually being spent is backfill contracts to replenish stocks (like Javelins or HIMARS) or upgrade equipment (M113s) https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2022-05/hr7691_passed.pdf This is the thing that people who have been duped by Russian propaganda fail to understand. They think it is like AFG 2002 or something, "with pallets of cash loaded onto C-17s"...because they can't be bothered to read CBO reports, or watch a few boring news shows, or just ask people in this thread, how DoD gets their money, and how it is spent. And even among UA supporters we have people who didn't know or forgot that we haven't had ANY Abrams tanks in AFG for many years. Perhaps they are seeing the Iraqi ones taken by ISIS and just assume? But it should be easy to refute.  It would blow their minds if they would sit back and realize that we have paid for some of this stuff several times over already compared to the "sticker price" as it was given in 1987 or whatever, because it was designed, built, tested, operated, serviced, upgraded, moved across oceans, stored, moved again, operated by still a different unit, stored, upgraded again... and now 30 years later finally gets a "declared" value for accounting purposes. It's not a conspiracy, it's just government accounting. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:14:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: https://i.postimg.cc/43PGhrZb/Fn-Qh-P9s-WIAAWBUf.jpg Those kinky Germans.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:18:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Earlier I posted a tweet and a picture showing a the wounded face of a guy who was sitting at the kitchen table with his wife when a russian missile struck their apartment complex. Just found another tweet that includes a picture of his wife.
https://i.postimg.cc/Z5cYr9xd/Fn-PLvdj-WQAAYm-Mb.jpg Putin needs to burn in hell. I am sorry for what happened to them (and that word is completely insufficient), but I am glad they are getting their injuries documented, because you can bet their is going to be a MASSIVE international tribunal to allocate whatever money is frozen from or squeezed out of Russia, even if it takes 20 years, and people are going to get a payout. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:22:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Imagine this hunting you. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnRDM04aYAEGMeY?format=jpg&name=900x900 It would be a little like getting beaten to death with a rubber chicken wielded by a clown, wouldn't it? A little twisted, a little sad, but really funny in a certain kind of way. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:23:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Pointer guy putting in work. Telegram link in tweet.
I think that last Jagga Jagga got him. Su-per! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:24:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Yes, that’s all in place/on the way. There was announcement of more Bradleys, Strykers, hummers, etc. to help round out western-type armoured brigades. A substantial amount of sp artillery is in place, etc. They can build it that way if they want; the pieces, training, etc. are in place or flowing. I can hardly believe we've gone from "WHAT GERMANY DOING?!" and speculating how the Ukrainians are going to do in the next phase of the war, to them getting cleared to receive several Brigade sets worth of equipment. Putin is going to be shitting kittens. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:25:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Earlier I posted a tweet and a picture showing a the wounded face of a guy who was sitting at the kitchen table with his wife when a russian missile struck their apartment complex. Just found another tweet that includes a picture of his wife.
https://i.postimg.cc/Z5cYr9xd/Fn-PLvdj-WQAAYm-Mb.jpg Putin needs to burn in hell. And hard times make hard people. May those two raise many healthy children who grow up hating Russia. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:33:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: I can hardly believe we've gone from "WHAT GERMANY DOING?!" and speculating how the Ukrainians are going to do in the next phase of the war, to them getting cleared to receive several Brigade sets worth of equipment. Putin is going to be shitting kittens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: Originally Posted By Jack67: Yes, that’s all in place/on the way. There was announcement of more Bradleys, Strykers, hummers, etc. to help round out western-type armoured brigades. A substantial amount of sp artillery is in place, etc. They can build it that way if they want; the pieces, training, etc. are in place or flowing. I can hardly believe we've gone from "WHAT GERMANY DOING?!" and speculating how the Ukrainians are going to do in the next phase of the war, to them getting cleared to receive several Brigade sets worth of equipment. Putin is going to be shitting kittens. Just wait until the F-16's arrive. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:44:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Imagine this hunting you. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnRDM04aYAEGMeY?format=jpg&name=900x900
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Posted: 1/24/2023 7:54:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472]
[#24]
Quote HistoryWell he didn’t do it publicly but I hope he spilled the beans to Zelensky exactly who and what sentiments are resulting in the slow rolling. It wouldn’t be right for him to do it publicly, I get it. He’s not the Supreme Court leaker type of person, which I can respect. ETA: I’d love for him, in the cone of silence, to explain what the restraints were that held him back from what he would have liked to have given. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:05:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: True, and what made it so tough to get folks to understand. I have no trouble believing russia would introduce a plant or animal disease into Ukraine if it were to their benefit. A bio lab is 90% identifying, comparing, and finding treatment. Most have zero interest in making one worse. The weird thing is, everyone knows we and Russia both have the real scary 'biolabs', but they are no problem I guess. Propaganda can be tough, even using the word is a piece of propaganda ironically. Every single nation uses some level of it, but the less noticeable the more effective. We all laugh at the dumb Russian propaganda but they also have historically been pretty good at it. Everything from 5G to GMOs to vaccines (not even touching the covid vaccines I'm sure they were hitting both sides there just to cause mayhem lol) have been targets in recent years. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:11:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: The German press is behind Scholz, too. Here's the Bild painting an apparent decision by Biden to send Abrams as a success for Scholz. "Biden will send tanks now, after all. Success for Scholz?" "Did Scholz prevail in the tank debate against Biden?" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171820/Screenshot_2023-01-24_at_10_12_51_AM_png-2683694.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Oh come on, just do the right thing guys.
The German press is behind Scholz, too. Here's the Bild painting an apparent decision by Biden to send Abrams as a success for Scholz. "Biden will send tanks now, after all. Success for Scholz?" "Did Scholz prevail in the tank debate against Biden?" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171820/Screenshot_2023-01-24_at_10_12_51_AM_png-2683694.JPG Einer für alle, alle für einen…So gehts im Leben, du oder ich! Eastern Europe has really set the moral tone to pressure the big guys and god bless ‘em for that  (the most Christian one I saw-there should be at least a cross emoticon!)
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:11:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: I get that. Honestly, you guys have changed my mind on a lot the stuff going on over. I really didn't pay any attention to it, until I stumbled across this thread, a couple of weeks ago. I find a lot of the combat footage interesting. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm a Gen Xer, grew up hating Russia. I have 0 sympathy for them. I'm still not 100% with all the aid we are giving, but I understand it more. ^^^^ ***For me, Kudos to this poster. He is trying to learn more on this subject matter. You cant ask for more than that.*** I have not had any issues with Americans complaining per say the "money" going to Ukraine. The issue I have is once explained, they still regurgitate Tucker's talking points. Any time I pop in the Ukraine threads, you have the same circle of guys and its on repeat. 10% for big guy, no money for our border. Then logical rational thinking people come in present various information sources and input concerning where the money is going, how that compares to our overall budget *drop in the bucket* and how it has zero effects on the border. Ukraine is not preventing our border security. Once that information is passed down 50 times, they go away, then come back in another thread *10% for big guy* and *Ukraine is X answer of the why for a clown show border. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:26:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Reminder: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnHbwHwWAAEpfsf?format=jpg&name=900x900 The Mobiks are such simps. They make lame “group complaint” videos on their phones, to send to Moscow. Do they seriously believe anyone in the Putin regime gives a fuck about them, whatsoever? Or anyone else in Russia?? These are soldiers. In a war zone. Armed soldiers. They know what the Kyderytes are doing by now. If the Russians had balls and two functioning brain cells, they’d visit the Kyderyte’s building at night, kill the sentries, lock all the doors, and toss some incendiary grenades through the windows. Then send their leadership a telegram: “so sorry to hear wheat those holhols did to your guys! And so far behind Russian lines ! Weird, isn’t it? What a shame it would be if anything bad happened to Russian soldiers. - signed, your friends, the Russians.” |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:34:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5YBLWIAEIOFZ?format=jpg&name=large 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:39:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freiheit8472: Wow, as a 21’er (new guy, I know) this is a noteworthy thing to see. I’m glad I joined after all these years of lurking. This is the right community (working like an actual community) to belong to. Arf really is an anachronism is many ways, hopefully that keeps hanging around. That kind of thing has been happening here on a regular basis for at least 22 years. It is pretty cool! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:41:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GTLandser]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: The Mobiks are such simps. They make lame “group complaint” videos on their phones, to send to Moscow. Do they seriously believe anyone in the Putin regime gives a fuck about them, whatsoever? Or anyone else in Russia?? These are soldiers. In a war zone. Armed soldiers. They know what the Kyderytes are doing by now. If the Russians had balls and two functioning brain cells, they’d visit the Kyderyte’s building at night, kill the sentries, lock all the doors, and toss some incendiary grenades through the windows. The latter solution you propose would be more effective, but the videos aren't really for Putin. Because Putin is the "czar", they also have to be really careful mentioning him at all, except in positive terms. So these videos are really directed at the mid-level regional boyars...the ones who have supported Putin's program for so long, in exchange for their feudal fief and license to steal. Now it's apparent that they have been stealing too much. I think what is most telling is that these guys make the videos at all. It really shows that they just accept the deal at face value: "We are modern day serfs in a land where we know the only law that truly matters comes over the telephone. We are fine being your cannon fodder within certain parameters, and already accept that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of actually getting you guys "out of office", so please steal a little bit less and give us a little bit more, so that we can have a slightly better chance to accomplish your goals (whatever they are, we don't really care)......and also to steal some loot for ourselves. That's all we really want, or feel that we have any right to ask. And don't worry, we're not getting any 'bright ideas' about how to run things from the stupid decadent West, either." These people are like crabs in a bucket. I guess centuries of repression will do that. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:56:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By reb0957: 100% correct! They will probably spin it as Zelensky is firing people that cut in on his grift! Imagine if we would start doing that here???? We wouldn't have a government! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By reb0957: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I think the only people who are shocked are those who are shocked something is actually being done about it. That's not normal. Imagine if we would start doing that here???? We wouldn't have a government! I guess I'm the only one who thinks that United States corruption sees Ukrainian corruption as quaint. Our government has a lot of people and their families who are really f****** far from honest. I'm sure those people and their families cannot wait to get their hooks into Ukraine and all of the government contracts that are going to happen for decades. But tolerating that in the interest of helping Ukraine is quite frankly, worth it. We have no business criticizing other countries corruption. Not until we clean up our own house. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 8:59:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: We knew it was systemic/cultural, it's impossible not to be when you're Russia's playground. It's now being looked at as treasonous by Ukrainians on Telegram. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By DOW: Systemic. No bueno. We knew it was systemic/cultural, it's impossible not to be when you're Russia's playground. It's now being looked at as treasonous by Ukrainians on Telegram. This! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:06:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Every nation on earth that has any agriculture at all has "bio labs". They research animal and plant diseases for prevention and cures. It's a big no shit that some of the diseases they study can affect humans. Retards tend to not understand how this stuff works. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By amanbearpig: The insidiousness of propaganda. Take something that is true and use it. Take corruption. Every nation has corruption. Ukraine has in the event past struggled with it and is still dealing with it. Russia harps on it. My "favorite" was the biolabs hubbub. The fact the US did/sponsored biological research in labs in Ukraine is true. Russia pushes the narrative, and the US is caught between having to explain what went on in the 'biolabs', which no one reads beyond the headline so this is useless, or deny it ever happened, leading to being caught in a 'falsehood'. Either way, Russia can claim a propaganda victory. Successful propaganda isn't "Russians stronk VDV are killing all the Ukrainian Nazis!" it's using true facts in insidious ways. See biolabs, Biden, corruption, etc. Every nation on earth that has any agriculture at all has "bio labs". They research animal and plant diseases for prevention and cures. It's a big no shit that some of the diseases they study can affect humans. Retards tend to not understand how this stuff works. Right-it’s one of the basic sciences. I’d love if there was a mystique around chemistry or physics labs. Big bang theory can only get is so much mileage man |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:07:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: It's also in writing with Yeltsin's signature on the paper. Countries have a right to determine who and what alliances to join. Russia has no grounds to stand on invading Ukraine over wanting to join NATO and the EU. But idiots insist Russia is justified for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: What gets people called called Russian trolls is constantly repeating Russian narratives such as Ukraine is filled with Nazis, Ukraine was genociding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years, the west was operating biolabs in Ukraine that threatened Russia and provoked them into invading, Zelensky is a tyrant who is persecuting Christians, the CIA instigated the Maidan in '14, etc. Narratives like these are constantly repeated in other Ukraine threads here, and they're literal, outright Russian propaganda. It's also in writing with Yeltsin's signature on the paper. Countries have a right to determine who and what alliances to join. Russia has no grounds to stand on invading Ukraine over wanting to join NATO and the EU. But idiots insist Russia is justified for it. When this started last February, I used this example to my wife: Russia is the husband/ boyfriend that constantly abuses the shit out of you, but when you get fed up and leave, tries to murder you, the whole time blaming you for making them do it. Nato, in this example, represents the battered women's shelter with armed guards that keep him from hurting or killing you in a drunken angry rage after the restraining order has been served. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:14:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Such bullshit.. Poland and the rest of Europe need to just do what's right. Germany is just out for themselves and to gain whatever they can by hiding the situation hostage Is it possible for a NATO member to be voted OUT of NATO??? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:15:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Probably one mine per roller and it disintegrates. By the way, it isnt a plow; Im not sure you can plow mines with a wheeled vehicle. Silly media. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnLDqsuXwBQW8ZB?format=jpg&name=small How many mines can that contraption blow up before it has to be replace? How many spare sets of rollers come with that? Just curious. Probably one mine per roller and it disintegrates. By the way, it isnt a plow; Im not sure you can plow mines with a wheeled vehicle. Silly media. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:15:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HELOBRAVO: I would think that there would be sufficient infantry support for the tank as part of a deal to get them and also provided to secure the crew and destroy the tank if necessary. Western tanks, western tactics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HELOBRAVO: Originally Posted By johnh57: I'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. I would think that there would be sufficient infantry support for the tank as part of a deal to get them and also provided to secure the crew and destroy the tank if necessary. Western tanks, western tactics. Western aircraft would also be a nice thing to add in. It will eventually get there. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:16:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: After this fiasco, Germany deserves to lose much of its export market in terms of weapons, and all of Eastern Europe should get Abrams after sending their Leopards to Ukraine. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:19:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I've said before that the West has repeatedly headfaked on significant systems. HiMARS and Patriot being the most obvious. Prior to HIMARS there were "semi-official" leaks saying we'd decided against it. Lavrov even came out and praised us for being "reasonable." A few days later we sent them in. Why is this? Playing games to demoralize Russian leadership perhaps? Trying to make certain Russian officials clutch at straws then yank them away? Obscuring our actual level of support? As most know I've been a proponent of the "frogboiling plan" to bleed Russia to death slowly. If Russia had known 10 months ago what NATO was willing to send - and preparations had begun immediately to send them - would things have changed? I would argue quite possibly yes, Putin would've been incentivized to cut his losses and "declare victory." I know most here think this is simple incompetence/indecision, but when it keeps happening the same way it should raise some questions. I predict we'll do it with GLSDB and again with fighters and again with ATACMS. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:26:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It was mentioned more than once… if true, this leads credence to the theory that the US is screwing with Russia psychologically. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:57:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Flogger23m]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bbrocks:
Leopard 2A6? That is impressive. I thought it would be old 2A4s. The 2A6 has a longer gun. 2A6:  2A5 with the shorter gun:  Norway wants to send some but they only have 2A4s that are upgraded. I think Ukraine will end up with a very mixed fleet. 2A4s, some 2A5s, and some 2A6s. Maybe Poland will send some 2PLs. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 9:59:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Imagine this hunting you. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnRDM04aYAEGMeY?format=jpg&name=900x900 I require video of this tank firing it's gun. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:17:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: + James Baker/Nato Expansion Oh yeah, that, too. The whole “we promised no NATO expansion” really galls me. And if you ask how they know - crickets. Originally Posted By DPeacher: Is it possible for a NATO member to be voted OUT of NATO??? Yes, most definitely. But not easily. I posted this the other day in a different place re: Erdogan. WRT Turkey, it is not a hard sell, though arguably it’s still a lot better to have them in. Germany doesn’t really meet the case. It would be characterized as a policy difference, not necessarily a fundamental breech, imo. The mechanism is via The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (1969). Like all things involving treaties, there IS a way to get what you want, but it’s not always linear. There is a way to kick Turkey out but it would take a substantial act of will on the part of all others. - NATO’s enabling legislation does not have a self-contained mechanism for doing it. Historically, Canada was very insistent that it should, but was ignored on this. - An over-arching treaty-of-treaties called the “Vienna Convention” does provide a legal basis to remove a party from a treaty regardless of this. - If Turkey is found in material breech of the treaty intentions, it can be removed from NATO via the Vienna Convention. - NATO demands, and frequently reiterates, cultural norms that members are supposed to uphold and further - liberty, democracy, individual freedom. Upholding and furthering these are binding elements of NATO. Their actions at multiple points wrt those cultural elements put them in breech a number of times, notably 2016, 2019, and now again with blackballing a potential new member because of defending individual liberties (no matter what an ass Paludan is in fact). If all the other members wanted them out, there is both a mechanism and grounds. https://www.justsecurity.org/66574/can-turkey-be-expelled-from-nato/ Obviously, this wouldn’t be easy and would take a substantial act of political will and effort. But it could be done if push came to shove. In fact, starting some talk about it might be enough to help curb the behavior and be enough. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:18:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Earlier I posted a tweet and a picture showing a the wounded face of a guy who was sitting at the kitchen table with his wife when a russian missile struck their apartment complex. Just found another tweet that includes a picture of his wife.
https://i.postimg.cc/Z5cYr9xd/Fn-PLvdj-WQAAYm-Mb.jpg Putin needs to burn in hell. Easterner mentioned seeing more wounded and scarred people while out and about. When we have our Ukbros meetup at Azovstahl (my first location vote), we’ll see a lot of people like this, all around. -There’s ZERO DOUBT Ukrainians will solve this question for us…maybe a hug, “heroyam slava” & high-five… we’ll learn from them for sure…. What to do when we lock eyes with them. Because they’re not freaks being gawked at… oh contraire… they’re the fucking strongest people walking this Earth and it’s an honor to meet and pass them on the sidewalk like we’re both the same normal people (which they are -but yinz know what I mean). And the only kind of real non-binary that exists is the gigantic fucking balls on all Ukrainians |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:18:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: You mean 1:30 in the trench? Looks like his own grenades go off in his chest rig as secondaries. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By MeestaSparkle: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some footage from failed Russian advances recently. Adam tactical group footage. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10jnl9k/compilation_of_artillery_strikes_against_russian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb In that Adam Tactical footage, at -2:30, right after the drone drop impact, it looks like a dude takes 3-4 hits from small arms fire. You mean 1:30 in the trench? Looks like his own grenades go off in his chest rig as secondaries. Maybe he was an officer? And somebody had enough of his shit. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:29:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... How much cash is being sent? Even Douglas Macgregor (an ardent Ukrainian naysayer) says that most of the "cash" is going to US Defense industries. Ukraine is getting mostly material support and hardware that we consider obsolete. Pertinent content starts at: 7:41 or https://youtu.be/MtpHZCOThrc?t=461  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:29:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... In one sentence you say that “Ukraine bois are saying and doing flat out retarded stuff” And in another you accuse them (Ukraine bois) of “purse swinging and name-calling.” Doesn’t this seem inconsistent? First, Your posting history on this thread started with your totally un-pertinent comment regarding someone’s M113 model. When someone asked what the bag on the glacis was, you answered “Cash.” That was not a discussion, that was a troll. Second, as with every poster who regurgitates the “pallets of cash/10% for the big guy/Ukraine is corrupt” talking points, you have offered zero specifics. You reference cash being handed over (illicitly). OK, back it up. Let’s see your evidence. Third, it can be very easily shown, and has been shown hundreds of times on this thread, that military and financial aide to Ukraine is minuscule compared to our own domestic and entirely self-inflicted expenditures. Supporting Ukraine has effectively ZERO to do with our national debt, inflation, the dollar, solvency of social security, or anything else that is being attributed to it by persons such as yourself. Fourth, (which I will mention for completeness) many such individuals profess an amazing, new-found spirit of isolationism. After 20 years of non-stop foreign wars (with questionable justification) and throwing trillions of dollars down the ME shithole for people who didn’t care, suddenly the hard right is concerned about the deficit and isolationism? Bullshit. You have previously posted a communist propaganda video. Not a “this is the perspective of the average Russian fighting, what he experiences and what he is being told. An actual, explicit communist propaganda video. Are you, personally, an American communist? Its OK if you are, this is still a free country where you have the right to do that. But I think it’s a fair question to ask. For my part, I’ve been a registered Republican my whole life, although since Bush I’ve leaned more libertarian. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:31:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Swiss lick more German boot, allow arms re-export: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/01/24/7386362/ Following their German master’s lead, they change their policy.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 10:36:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Pretty awesome footage! |
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