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Posted: 5/12/2023 4:58:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By stgdz: And how long would that be able to survive in a manpads environment? This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ One of the largest complaints I've heard people raise about the US military outside of SOCOM is that it's too risk adverse, and I think that risk adverseness is a big reason why they haven't gotten A-10s. People have raised concerns about their vulnerability to Russian air defense, which are valid, but the reality of the situation is that if a Ukrainian A-10 pilot completely smokes an armored company and two artillery batteries before getting shot down, that's worth it. I guess the only real issue would be that Ukraine doesn't have that many pilots as a whole. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 4:59:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093:
Amazing how they got to Ukraine only 3 hours after reported receiving them.   Attached FileFuck yes, I hope we start to see real SEAD missions knocking out S-400s |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 4:59:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: And how long would that be able to survive in a manpads environment? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By 74HC: Quite true. It's hard to separate objective analysis from those subjectively giving their opinion because they don't support Ukraine. There's not many MIG-29s left to give. So something else needs to be given. In terms of surplus, I don't think anything can match the F-16. A-10. We should give them to Ukraine since they are being retired from service. And how long would that be able to survive in a manpads environment? After over a year of high intensity conflict both sides are still using helicopters, and the A-10 (despite its faults) is more survivable than any helicopter. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:01:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1969iggy: A military invasion with minimal civilian casualties wouldn't have forced Biden to ramp up support. We all know he was ready to sit there for 3-4 weeks and let Russia win... if they could in 3-4 weeks. But the video and pictures of civilian suffering early on (and often) steeled support for Ukraine around the world. Suddenly Russians were Yankee fans at Fenway. Not a friendly face in the crowd... but the guy hawking beers (China) will happily sell him a brew to line his own pocket. Random attacks of civilians by indiscriminate rockets was a major contributing factor to that dynamic. Very true. Xiden's plan A was to let Ukraine fall with as little whimpering as possible. Hell, I think he even wanted it to happen since working with Putin/Russia was already established. Anything except what we have now which has caused Xiden and his team lots of pee running down legs and sleepless afternoons.. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:11:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Yeah. Just like every tank on the Western front was said to be a tiger. Lol I do enjoy that these weapons have a psychological impact on the enemy. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:16:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ Probably would have been OK in the 70's but now days they wont last. But I doubt the UA would use the stupidly. Anyway what they need are F18's or F18, or Gripens. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:23:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: Saw elsewhere that it was an HRIM-2 strike. RU sign-man was in the photo. Didn't look like there was any urgency to rescue anyone from under the rubble. ETA
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
ETA
Good confirmation the plant was a military logistics target. If it was an abandoned factory they would have claimed it was a school or hospital or refugee center. Trying to play it off as the factory it used to be means it really was converted to military purposes. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:25:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ In Kosovo, the A10 was murdering SAMs. Which you don't usually think of it as being made for that role. But yeah....
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:27:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
https://media.giphy.com/media/dtGwS2cDagGxPa1DP5/giphy.gif Russia is about to have a baaaaad future in Ukraine ... |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:27:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: One of the largest complaints I've heard people raise about the US military outside of SOCOM is that it's too risk adverse, and I think that risk adverseness is a big reason why they haven't gotten A-10s. People have raised concerns about their vulnerability to Russian air defense, which are valid, but the reality of the situation is that if a Ukrainian A-10 pilot completely smokes an armored company and two artillery batteries before getting shot down, that's worth it. I guess the only real issue would be that Ukraine doesn't have that many pilots as a whole. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By stgdz: And how long would that be able to survive in a manpads environment? This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ One of the largest complaints I've heard people raise about the US military outside of SOCOM is that it's too risk adverse, and I think that risk adverseness is a big reason why they haven't gotten A-10s. People have raised concerns about their vulnerability to Russian air defense, which are valid, but the reality of the situation is that if a Ukrainian A-10 pilot completely smokes an armored company and two artillery batteries before getting shot down, that's worth it. I guess the only real issue would be that Ukraine doesn't have that many pilots as a whole. True, but we should enable the UA to make that call themselves. They have proven smarter than most of our leaders. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:34:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Very true. Xiden's plan A was to let Ukraine fall with as little whimpering as possible. Hell, I think he even wanted it to happen since working with Putin/Russia was already established. Anything except what we have now which has caused Xiden and his team lots of pee running down legs and sleepless afternoons.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By 1969iggy: A military invasion with minimal civilian casualties wouldn't have forced Biden to ramp up support. We all know he was ready to sit there for 3-4 weeks and let Russia win... if they could in 3-4 weeks. But the video and pictures of civilian suffering early on (and often) steeled support for Ukraine around the world. Suddenly Russians were Yankee fans at Fenway. Not a friendly face in the crowd... but the guy hawking beers (China) will happily sell him a brew to line his own pocket. Random attacks of civilians by indiscriminate rockets was a major contributing factor to that dynamic. Very true. Xiden's plan A was to let Ukraine fall with as little whimpering as possible. Hell, I think he even wanted it to happen since working with Putin/Russia was already established. Anything except what we have now which has caused Xiden and his team lots of pee running down legs and sleepless afternoons.. Absolutely. It is ironic that the 10% Boys harp on Biden and Ukraine when it was Biden getting 10% from the oil oligarchs who arose from the rubble of USSR. Ukraine was trying to investigate and prosecute Burisma (therefore Hunter). So Biden is much more corrupted by Russia oligarchs snd oil (notice he stopped domestic oil expansion and started buying Russian oil?). Nothing to do with Ukraine. In fact I believe he holds a personal grudge against Ukraine. Some of GD is just retarded when it comes to Biden. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:35:04 PM EDT
[#12]
I agree that F18s are a more practical aircraft for Ukraine.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:37:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ A-10 durability |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:38:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I agree that F18s are a more practical aircraft for Ukraine. I’m leaning that way too. Gripen and F16 would both work, but F18 would probably be the best for their needs. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:43:43 PM EDT
[#15]
F18s or F16s who cares just give them one or both...they need better capabilities than MiGs ... that said ... hats off to Poland ...
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:45:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Absolutely. It is ironic that the 10% Boys harp on Biden and Ukraine when it was Biden getting 10% from the oil oligarchs who arose from the rubble of USSR. Ukraine was trying to investigate and prosecute Burisma (therefore Hunter). So Biden is much more corrupted by Russia oligarchs snd oil (notice he stopped domestic oil expansion and started buying Russian oil?). Nothing to do with Ukraine. In fact I believe he holds a personal grudge against Ukraine. Some of GD is just retarded when it comes to Biden. My biggest gripe is they're pretending Ukraine is a Hobo on the street begging for beer money. When in reality Ukraine is having a home invasion that threatens to wipe them out, and all they want is the tools to save themselves. It's like if they saw a 110lbs woman on the street being raped by a 220 power lifter bro. And she's screaming for help. They're saying her real motive for crying for help is so she can buy a Ferrari, instead of actually begging to be saved from a monster. These people let their brains get broke by politics |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:47:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: The chinese parts makers must be working hella overtime to be able to supply the parts for all those. Ironic that ChinaIsAsshoe is on the side of Russia but chooses to knowingly sell parts to all comers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Multiple sources just cranking these things out and sending them to the front.
The chinese parts makers must be working hella overtime to be able to supply the parts for all those. Ironic that ChinaIsAsshoe is on the side of Russia but chooses to knowingly sell parts to all comers. China is on China's side. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:48:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Probably would have been OK in the 70's but now days they wont last. But I doubt the UA would use the stupidly. Anyway what they need are F18's or F18, or Gripens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By strykr: This is literally why this plane was created, to take out Russian armor on their way to the Fulda Gap. Nobody said oh wait, we cannot use them for that cause they may get shot down. You could say the same for any aircraft, including helicopters. It is a war, there will be casualties. However, they also have the potential to inflict massive damage on Russian ground troops. Can you imagine what 100 of these planes could do to Russian troops on the run or in Crimea? Yes, stealthy aircraft can survive better but Ukraine would be happy to receive tech that is not the latest and greatest. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/01/ukraine-asked-u-s-for-100-a-10-warthogs-to-fight-russians/ Probably would have been OK in the 70's but now days they wont last. But I doubt the UA would use the stupidly. Anyway what they need are F18's or F18, or Gripens. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:56:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: And how long would that be able to survive in a manpads environment? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By 74HC: Quite true. It's hard to separate objective analysis from those subjectively giving their opinion because they don't support Ukraine. There's not many MIG-29s left to give. So something else needs to be given. In terms of surplus, I don't think anything can match the F-16. A-10. We should give them to Ukraine since they are being retired from service. And how long would that be able to survive in a manpads environment? As long as their SU-25s that they're still operating after 3+++ days of war? Not giving them something, that's effectively being thrown away, to use during a war because it might get destroyed lacks vision. Forget the cannon, it's useful as a PGM truck. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:00:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Cool
 Tank Factory Builds New Tanks and Upgrades Old Ones |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:04:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: One of the largest complaints I've heard people raise about the US military outside of SOCOM is that it's too risk adverse, and I think that risk adverseness is a big reason why they haven't gotten A-10s. People have raised concerns about their vulnerability to Russian air defense, which are valid, but the reality of the situation is that if a Ukrainian A-10 pilot completely smokes an armored company and two artillery batteries before getting shot down, that's worth it. I guess the only real issue would be that Ukraine doesn't have that many pilots as a whole. Exactly. If the A-10s can take out hard targets, they could save the lives of potentially thousands of soldiers. If F-16s are out of the question, the A-10 at least is an alternative that doesn't cost the US much of anything. They are also slower/easier to fly than a modern fighter jet so training pilots for them would be easier. When the alternatives are storming fortified bunkers in Crimea in a WWI style attack or smoking them from the air at the loss of a few A-10s, I know which way I would lean. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:05:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Yeah. Just like every tank on the Western front was said to be a tiger. Lol I do enjoy that these weapons have a psychological impact on the enemy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By CS223: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
ETA
When HIMARS showed up last summer, every strike behind Russian lines started being attributed to them (despite the fact that the Ukrainians had started targeting Russian depots weeks before their arrival). I feel like a similar dynamic is going to start happening with Storm Shadows, in which every target hit in the Russian rear is going to be a result of a Storm Shadow strike. This is in spite of the fact that the Ukrainians have other tools like tochka u, HRIM-2, drones (including the 1000km kamikze drone ukroboronprom just finished, etc.) that can also hit targets deep behind Russian lines. Yeah. Just like every tank on the Western front was said to be a tiger. Lol I do enjoy that these weapons have a psychological impact on the enemy. Did winged JDAM kits make it over? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:11:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Intense. I'll never understand killing yourself in combat. Fight to the death or surrender. Maybe if I was about to be captured by ISIS but being captured by the UA? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: 56th Motorized Brigade assaulting Russian position with a tank and dismounted infantry. Another Russian suicide at the end. Intense. I'll never understand killing yourself in combat. Fight to the death or surrender. Maybe if I was about to be captured by ISIS but being captured by the UA? Good thing for the tank the Russian tried skip-bombing with that RPG. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:12:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryI think I saw a name on a couple of those BRDM hulls...LightSol or DarkeningStar or something like that. 
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:13:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: You have to consider the propaganda that these guys have consumed. A significant portion of them believe they're there to fight the reincarnation of the Third Reich that was ethnically cleansing Russians in the Donbas. Plus, there's also the reality that Russian medical care is awful, and a lot of their wounded likely end up dying slow and agonizing deaths from what should be survivable wounds. I can sort of understand and I'm certainly not some brave super-soldier type. I've heard of trapped soldiers doing it in previous wars... I'm probably just shocked from seeing it. It's a very shitty situation and I look forward to seeing Putin crawling then putting a gun under his chin. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:15:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Probably would have been OK in the 70's but now days they wont last. But I doubt the UA would use the stupidly. Anyway what they need are F18's or F18, or Gripens. Well, the argument is that they are too easy targets so we cannot send them. And the F-16 is too expensive/too much escalation so we cannot send them either. But can Ukraine liberate their country without any use of the air force? 20-30 Migs and Sukhois are not going to be sufficient. How about sending both. Use the F-16 for SEAD, then the A-10 to mop up everything else. A-10s were designed to fly low below the radar and be able to withstand some damage. Russia is literally using 60s 70s tech in many cases now. Admit it, watching A-10s on a strafing run over Russian T-62s or T-55s would be pretty satisfying to watch, the way it was meant to be |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:21:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Exactly. If the A-10s can take out hard targets, they could save the lives of potentially thousands of soldiers. If F-16s are out of the question, the A-10 at least is an alternative that doesn't cost the US much of anything. They are also slower/easier to fly than a modern fighter jet so training pilots for them would be easier. When the alternatives are storming fortified bunkers in Crimea in a WWI style attack or smoking them from the air at the loss of a few A-10s, I know which way I would lean. While I don't agree with the Air Force brass who have been chomping at the bit to ditch the A-10, this would seem to be the perfect off ramp for that system. I can't think of anything better for strafing trenches, stacking convoys and lighting up trains. If Ukraine is able to destroy most of Russia's radar systems, the A-10 could raise hell every night with impunity. Low and slow they could be a real threat to Russia's A400 systems. Originally designed to ravage Russian armor, I'm thinking it deserves to shine one last time. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:27:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: castlebravo84]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Well, the argument is that they are too easy targets so we cannot send them. And the F-16 is too expensive/too much escalation so we cannot send them either. But can Ukraine liberate their country without any use of the air force? 20-30 Migs and Sukhois are not going to be sufficient. How about sending both. Use the F-16 for SEAD, then the A-10 to mop up everything else. A-10s were designed to fly low below the radar and be able to withstand some damage. Russia is literally using 60s 70s tech in many cases now. Admit it, watching A-10s on a strafing run over Russian T-62s or T-55s would be pretty satisfying to watch, the way it was meant to be Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Probably would have been OK in the 70's but now days they wont last. But I doubt the UA would use the stupidly. Anyway what they need are F18's or F18, or Gripens. Well, the argument is that they are too easy targets so we cannot send them. And the F-16 is too expensive/too much escalation so we cannot send them either. But can Ukraine liberate their country without any use of the air force? 20-30 Migs and Sukhois are not going to be sufficient. How about sending both. Use the F-16 for SEAD, then the A-10 to mop up everything else. A-10s were designed to fly low below the radar and be able to withstand some damage. Russia is literally using 60s 70s tech in many cases now. Admit it, watching A-10s on a strafing run over Russian T-62s or T-55s would be pretty satisfying to watch, the way it was meant to be A10s are slow and won't be able to toss JDAMs or glide bombs nearly as far, so they would need to close into SHORAD/MANPADS range where they would get chewed to pieces before they could launch their weapons in situations where an F16 would be able to stand off a bit further. Also, an A10 can't effectively defend itself against enemy fighters like an F16 can. F16s are not in short supply, there are a lot more of them than A10s, and they are operated by many nations around the world that have an interest in supporting Ukraine. The irreplaceable resource in this situation is Ukrainian pilots, so putting them in a less survivable aircraft like the A10 just doesn't make sense. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:28:36 PM EDT
[#29]
More video and pics of the strike. Scroll down for more.
I got my awning on the xterra finally, and the rack is mostly done, and Ukraine seems to have been busier than me.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:28:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: They should have it mimicking a B-52!!  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Haub: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv8VUmuWAA4ljem?format=png&name=900x900
Never saw that one coming. Here we are in 2022/23, with Ukrainian Fencers or maybe Flankers tricked out with high tech western NATO missiles to hit back at rossiya. Epic. I would love to know what these were simulating if this is true.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZyL-zEoMfMThey should have it mimicking a B-52!! Can it mimmic a F-14 Tomcat with Danger Zone playing in the cockpit? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:31:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Absolutely. It is ironic that the 10% Boys harp on Biden and Ukraine when it was Biden getting 10% from the oil oligarchs who arose from the rubble of USSR. Ukraine was trying to investigate and prosecute Burisma (therefore Hunter). So Biden is much more corrupted by Russia oligarchs snd oil (notice he stopped domestic oil expansion and started buying Russian oil?). Nothing to do with Ukraine. In fact I believe he holds a personal grudge against Ukraine. Some of GD is just retarded when it comes to Biden. Biden Family et al got money from Russian oligarchs. A few mil. iirc. That was for "minor issues" not related to this war like lifting sanctions and Nordstream II which Biden greenlighted on day one (just after shutting down our pipeline) But it was NOT money well spent since the invasion superseded all that. I do wonder if Biden is more worried about Russian military escalation or revealing dirty secrets "escalation". Anyway Biden is making decisions about Ukraine like I make decisions about my wife spending money... |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:36:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Was listening to Andrew Wilkow today and he had Mark W. Smith on to discuss his new book.
Can't speak to the book and unfortunately I had to miss part of the interview when they were getting into the discussion of the book but, figured I'd mention it here for anyone interested. Disarmed: What the Ukraine War Teaches Americans About the Right to Bear Arms  The war in Ukraine is the ultimate real-life lesson of what can happen when a country disarms its citizens. Anti-gun zealots in the United States insist that the Second Amendment’s right to keep and bear arms is a “relic.” Try telling that to the people of Ukraine. Ukraine never protected its citizens’ right to keep and bear arms. But as Russia was about to invade, Ukraine did a critical about-face. Ukraine’s government encouraged civilians to carry firearms to defend themselves and their country. It handed out 25,000 fully automatic weapons, while Ukrainians rushed to buy AR-15 rifles that American gun-controllers insist “no one needs.” Did the arming of Ukraine’s civilians make a difference? You bet. Armed citizens have played a crucial role in holding off the massive Russian army. This powerful book highlights how they did it and what they did wrong. Constitutional scholar and host of The Four Boxes Diner YouTube Channel, Mark W. Smith reveals why the lessons learned in Ukraine matter to Americans, and why we must tirelessly resist all efforts to disarm us. Unless we heed Ukraine’s cautionary example, we too may pay a steep price. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:39:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: I think I saw a name on a couple of those BRDM hulls...LightSol or DarkeningStar or something like that. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:45:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Well, the argument is that they are too easy targets so we cannot send them. And the F-16 is too expensive/too much escalation so we cannot send them either. But can Ukraine liberate their country without any use of the air force? 20-30 Migs and Sukhois are not going to be sufficient. How about sending both. Use the F-16 for SEAD, then the A-10 to mop up everything else. A-10s were designed to fly low below the radar and be able to withstand some damage. Russia is literally using 60s 70s tech in many cases now. Admit it, watching A-10s on a strafing run over Russian T-62s or T-55s would be pretty satisfying to watch, the way it was meant to be Are there not any ecm pods that work on the F18 and A-10? When I was in the AF in the late 70's, the RF4-C we had on base had ecm pods that looked like drop tanks. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:49:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted  By Freiheit8472:Wonder how OutofBattery is doing, I know just that he changed his username on here but was otherwise well last year. I hope he’s doing okay |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:53:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Your terms are acceptable. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By Peengwin: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: If the Rangers had support, it would be slasher movie levels of gore. Can confirm. Your terms are acceptable. Ukranians would make excellent SOF troops in my humble experience.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:58:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Peengwin: Ukranians would make excellent SOF troops in my humble experience.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161834/IMG_4978_jpg-2814660.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161834/IMG_4979_jpg-2814664.JPG |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:58:30 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 6:58:46 PM EDT
[#39]
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:03:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Are there not any ecm pods that work on the F18 and A-10? When I was in the AF in the late 70's, the RF4-C we had on base had ecm pods that looked like drop tanks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By strykr: Well, the argument is that they are too easy targets so we cannot send them. And the F-16 is too expensive/too much escalation so we cannot send them either. But can Ukraine liberate their country without any use of the air force? 20-30 Migs and Sukhois are not going to be sufficient. How about sending both. Use the F-16 for SEAD, then the A-10 to mop up everything else. A-10s were designed to fly low below the radar and be able to withstand some damage. Russia is literally using 60s 70s tech in many cases now. Admit it, watching A-10s on a strafing run over Russian T-62s or T-55s would be pretty satisfying to watch, the way it was meant to be Are there not any ecm pods that work on the F18 and A-10? When I was in the AF in the late 70's, the RF4-C we had on base had ecm pods that looked like drop tanks. https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/197590/alq-131-ecm-pod/ |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:08:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Kerch Bridge needs to get hit. I could be mistaken, as I was working while listening to a podcast that reported it. Saying there were huge lines to get out of Crimea. lol Let those who want to run, run. That much less persona non grata paperwork to do to expel them after the Liberation. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:25:03 PM EDT
[#42]
This is the way.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:27:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is the way.
One of the smarter ones. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:28:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/RDT_20230512_1614244902483438274920783-2814681.jpg |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:29:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: The problem would be delivery. I don't think they're flying a cargo plane over a combat zone |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:30:40 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:37:35 PM EDT
[#47]
  
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:42:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zam18th]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/RDT_20230512_1614244902483438274920783-2814681.jpg I've wondered why we never adapted the MOAB to a short range missile format. It would be an asskicker. ETA probably too expensive to design a mobile launcher and rocket for something that big and for a niche weapon. ETA 2: Checked and it weighs in at 20k lbs. LOL. Yeah, that would be challenging to get it moving fast enough to be useful. I guess I answered my own question. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:52:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: I've wondered why we never adapted the MOAB to a short range missile format. It would be an asskicker. ETA probably too expensive to design a mobile launcher and rocket for something that big and for a niche weapon. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By m35ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/RDT_20230512_1614244902483438274920783-2814681.jpg I've wondered why we never adapted the MOAB to a short range missile format. It would be an asskicker. ETA probably too expensive to design a mobile launcher and rocket for something that big and for a niche weapon.  |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 7:53:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: I've wondered why we never adapted the MOAB to a short range missile format. It would be an asskicker. ETA probably too expensive to design a mobile launcher and rocket for something that big and for a niche weapon. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By m35ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/RDT_20230512_1614244902483438274920783-2814681.jpg I've wondered why we never adapted the MOAB to a short range missile format. It would be an asskicker. ETA probably too expensive to design a mobile launcher and rocket for something that big and for a niche weapon. It would be twice the size and weight of a Minuteman. |
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