User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 7:58:34 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryIf we are in a situation where US forces need to employ a Stinger, we fucked up. We don't fight battles where we don't have 100% air superiority. Quote HistoryThe idea that we haven’t bought more stingers since 2003 is mind boggling. With everything we spend money on regularly, some of the defense industrial base we let atrophy makes no sense. If we are in a situation where US forces need to employ a Stinger, we fucked up. We don't fight battles where we don't have 100% air superiority. Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:03:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: The idea that we haven’t bought more stingers since 2003 is mind boggling. With everything we spend money on regularly, some of the defense industrial base we let atrophy makes no sense. If we are in a situation where US forces need to employ a Stinger, we fucked up. We don't fight battles where we don't have 100% air superiority. Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Huh, I'm definitely not well versed but US troops firing stingers in those places probably doesn't happen often? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:23:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: What's sad also is there nothing anyone but them can do about it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By iggy1337: Sad thing is that Russians could have a good life and living standard if they un-fucked their culture of corruption and psycopathic leadership. What's sad also is there nothing anyone but them can do about it. It’s because they don’t want better,they want to be Russians. Unless you live around them you cannot understand it. I swear to you that I know Russians who you think are just normal,every day people that are as civilized as anyone else and then they’ll just throw out how Ukrainians are misguided khohols or that the mass murder in Bucha was fake. I mean a 30something that didn’t grow up in the USSR,someone who has lived their entire adult life in a modern,European society but can’t accept that their fellow Russians do Russian things. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:23:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: No way there is enough DC battery capacity to run the pumps for hours on end. No idea how Ruskie shps are wired up, but several multi-HP pumps would eat up a battery system in no time flat. Could the water pressure just be positive pressure from flooding somewhere? Since we are not watching a video, someone just snapped a photo, maybe when something was happening with the ship, like making moaning noises or starting to list more. Sounds stupid but I know nothing about sinking ships. |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:26:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By x248716x: so you're not the guy getting the boner thinking of tactical nukes? or that guy that gets hard thinking of tank-on-tank action? there was somebody in this thread that was that guy... I guess it's true....if a thread goes on long enough it always turns into a masturbatory or poop thread. At least no one came out of the closet yet. |
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:27:46 AM EDT
[#6]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:29:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Graphic:
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:32:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLurker:
Wow. This is a pretty sh!tty tactic. Orcs gonna orc it seems... Eta. Turns out image is of orc handiwork in Tripoli, not Ukraine. Still awful though. There's plenty more in the UA |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:32:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SoCalExile]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Translation: The military of the Russian Federation found prohibited ammunition at the former positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05oyCpbrGZIJHP is generally considered against Still doesn't change the fact that I see a mag of ball ammo when I expand the vid on my desktop. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:33:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: harrjd]
[#10]
Guys it was already said there is a second boat behind the cruiser that was pumping water infact you can it shown in the short video circulating. You can see the antenna sticking up behind the cruiser. So it doesn’t matter if they had batteries and how long they can run a damage control pump. The important fact is the ship is sunk and no longer a threat to the friendlies.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:34:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery:
If real that will get some acedemics and students "transfered to a new university"....possibly with a free ride there in the back of a white box truck. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:38:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Those folks do find themselves in some interesting company that really does give credence to the horseshoe political scale... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/FK3pXRlXwAEc_J1_jpg-2352162.JPG  Attached File |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:40:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#13]
ETA- beat
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:41:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
Laying down passively together in a big pile while the enemy tosses grenades on you does not seem to be a winning strategy. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:41:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ricko1: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164452/code_pink_jpg-2353184.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ricko1: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Those folks do find themselves in some interesting company that really does give credence to the horseshoe political scale... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/FK3pXRlXwAEc_J1_jpg-2352162.JPG I’d like to negotiate all of them to Russia. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:44:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:45:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Trans: Azov showing a successful counterattack of manpower in Mariupol
 ???? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ???? ? ????????? Trans: The 54th Mechanized Brigade named after Hetman Ivan Mazepi moved to Donetsk region  Failed To Load Title Destruction of Russian troops by artillery of the AFU  ??????????? ?????????? ????? ??????????? ??? Destruction of Russian troops by artillery of the AFU |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:48:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: The guy that started the original Osint thread asked for it to be moved to the military forum so it could be a more serious discussion without the shenanigans of GD. When I complained and said if that was the case then it should have been moved to team, he agreed and said he didn't think about team when he asked for it to be moved, but wouldn't ask for it to moved again. I got some flak from folks thinking I was jumping on him when I wasn't. this /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/87D543F5-C33B-475C-95CD-45D86133DAC9-476.gif is what got people upset thinking it was directed at him when it was directed at the site. My complaint was like yours. I pay to be a member here. There shouldn't be anyplace I can't go. I don't have to be a registered scuba diver to go to the scuba forum, or a professional photographer to got to the photography forum, why should I have to prove I was in the .mil to go into the .mil forum. The shit of it is, I was in the military, and am a disabled veteran, but I was discharged 34 years ago and I don't wear it on my sleeve anymore. Hell I'm not even sure I could find my DD214 again. I'm slowly dying of kidney failure after cancer took my good kidney a few years ago, between that and the excruciating pain I am in from my disability, I simply don't care enough about this to go through the trouble of proving anything to anyone anymore. The state is lucky Mrs BGB renews the tags and my drivers license because I could not care less. So I'm here enjoying the shenanigans of GD and putting trolls on the ignore list and trying to decide what I'm going to ask Mrs BGB to make for my birthday dinner in tomorrow. Needs to be special I don't have too many left, at least I hope not.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Originally Posted By bigstick61: Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: Originally Posted By sq40: You bring up a good point. There is a lack of information on the changing lines, offenses, and defense moves that has been driving me batty. I would really like to see more information on how the front is going and who is making progress where. Unfortunately what happened was all the people who know what they're talking about went off to a thread in the .mil forum and this thread was hijacked by a few narcissists who's primary purpose was feigning moral superiority and talking down to people. The end result of this was no one knowing what's going on and a lot of people shifting over to a fuck the Ukrainians and Russians stance due to all the trolling. The trolls it seems couldn't contain themselves and eventually got too over the top and people are largely ignoring them now. More maps are being posted and hopefully something resembling a normal discussion can start taking place. Eta there have been a few people posting good info all along but it was almost impossible to find in all the bullshit and they were of course trolled because they weren't posting that Putin committed suicide 3 weeks ago. The good thread getting sent to the military forum was quite upsetting. It would have been better placed in Team if the goal was to keep the trolls out. The site needs a restricted forum that is vetted and only known members are allowed in to discuss such topics whether .mil or not. I think after 23 years on this site I should be able to read such topics as it is more about world affairs than US military topics.  The guy that started the original Osint thread asked for it to be moved to the military forum so it could be a more serious discussion without the shenanigans of GD. When I complained and said if that was the case then it should have been moved to team, he agreed and said he didn't think about team when he asked for it to be moved, but wouldn't ask for it to moved again. I got some flak from folks thinking I was jumping on him when I wasn't. this /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/87D543F5-C33B-475C-95CD-45D86133DAC9-476.gif is what got people upset thinking it was directed at him when it was directed at the site. My complaint was like yours. I pay to be a member here. There shouldn't be anyplace I can't go. I don't have to be a registered scuba diver to go to the scuba forum, or a professional photographer to got to the photography forum, why should I have to prove I was in the .mil to go into the .mil forum. The shit of it is, I was in the military, and am a disabled veteran, but I was discharged 34 years ago and I don't wear it on my sleeve anymore. Hell I'm not even sure I could find my DD214 again. I'm slowly dying of kidney failure after cancer took my good kidney a few years ago, between that and the excruciating pain I am in from my disability, I simply don't care enough about this to go through the trouble of proving anything to anyone anymore. The state is lucky Mrs BGB renews the tags and my drivers license because I could not care less. So I'm here enjoying the shenanigans of GD and putting trolls on the ignore list and trying to decide what I'm going to ask Mrs BGB to make for my birthday dinner in tomorrow. Needs to be special I don't have too many left, at least I hope not. Happy Birthday BigGrumpyBear, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, but I will be saying prayers for you for things to get better for you all. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:49:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: Huh, I'm definitely not well versed but US troops firing stingers in those places probably doesn't happen often? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: Originally Posted By TAP: The idea that we haven’t bought more stingers since 2003 is mind boggling. With everything we spend money on regularly, some of the defense industrial base we let atrophy makes no sense. If we are in a situation where US forces need to employ a Stinger, we fucked up. We don't fight battles where we don't have 100% air superiority. Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Huh, I'm definitely not well versed but US troops firing stingers in those places probably doesn't happen often? Often? No, not at all. But certainly not the "never" that a lot of folks tend to think. The common threats faced now are not piloted aircraft, but instead an unpiloted suicide drone- think modernized V1s or miniature cruise missiles. You say "drone" and people think quadcopters, which is why some of our senior folks here are pushing for the "advanced conventional weapons" lingo instead in order to highlight the difference and try to get the anti-air defenses that are needed. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:49:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Papposilenus]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
I have to imagine that considering the propaganda surrounding Azov in particular as "Nazis" that the best they can hope for if captured is a show trial and speedy execution. Wild guess, but my presumption at this point is that Russia may claim "those guys in particular were the Nazis we were talking about this whole time and we got them" as a way to claw victory from the jaws of defeat if they plan to leave Ukraine soon. I figure the Azov guys know as much, and realize the only viable options for them are death or victory at this point. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:49:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ricko1: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164452/code_pink_jpg-2353184.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ricko1: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Those folks do find themselves in some interesting company that really does give credence to the horseshoe political scale... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/FK3pXRlXwAEc_J1_jpg-2352162.JPG It's not horseshoe theory, it's Russia-funds-whatever-causes-chaos theory. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:52:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: I have to imagine that considering the propaganda surrounding Azov in particular as "Nazis" that the best they can hope for if captured is a show trial and speedy execution. Wild guess, but my presumption at this point is that Russia may claim "those guys in particular were the Nazis we were talking about this whole time and we got them" as a way to claw victory from the jaws of defeat if they plan to leave Ukraine soon. I figure the Azov guys know as much, and realize the only viable options are death or victory for them at this point. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
I have to imagine that considering the propaganda surrounding Azov in particular as "Nazis" that the best they can hope for if captured is a show trial and speedy execution. Wild guess, but my presumption at this point is that Russia may claim "those guys in particular were the Nazis we were talking about this whole time and we got them" as a way to claw victory from the jaws of defeat if they plan to leave Ukraine soon. I figure the Azov guys know as much, and realize the only viable options are death or victory for them at this point.  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:52:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Waldo: Thank You. I figured there had to be some thought put into the fire fighting systems on a warship. Just no idea how it was set up to work without house power. @Waldo Tour some of the WW2 museum ships and notice the damage control. Alabama has lots of jumpers at the bulkheads. Many DC lockers with equipment. I also saw many places to connect to ships electrical for either power in from generators or power out to jumper ships electrical equipment or directly for welding. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:55:21 AM EDT
[#24]
|
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:56:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Drones? |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:57:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Code Pink was funded with Soviet money from the beginning - it's just a bunch of commies reliving their hippy glory days. It's not horseshoe theory, it's Russia-funds-whatever-causes-chaos theory. Exactly, Russia Funds Conservative honeypots, BLM, Code Pink, Q-Anon groups, Hispanic Separatists, Anarchists, and more. They target easily manipulated groups who already are angry and want change. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 8:59:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Russian "Kalibr" missile flies over Ukrainian flag
 Failed To Load Title Soldiers of the Donetsk People's Republic show the NATO trophies  Failed To Load Title Smoke billows over Lviv as Russia strikes western Ukraine  Smoke billows over Lviv as Russia strikes western Ukraine | AFP |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:00:16 AM EDT
[#28]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:01:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Soon to be: One Student out of two gets a rifle. The one Stundent without follows him! When the one Student with the rifle gets killed, the one Student who is following picks up the rifle and shoots! Sad thing is that Russians could have a good life and living standard if they un-fucked their culture of corruption and psycopathic leadership. If you're going to be pushed into the meat grinder anyway, why not immediately turn and fire on the ones barking those orders? I guess they really do think differently than we would. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:01:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: The idea that we haven’t bought more stingers since 2003 is mind boggling. With everything we spend money on regularly, some of the defense industrial base we let atrophy makes no sense. If we are in a situation where US forces need to employ a Stinger, we fucked up. We don't fight battles where we don't have 100% air superiority. Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Not sure who you quoted, but "We don't fight battles where we don't have 100% air superiority." is a head scratcher. Besides what is going on with current events, the threat of enemy air in various formats engaging our ground forces is very real with all of our potential enemies. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:05:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: I bet if the Ukrainians didn't catch this guy before the Russians captured Mariupol, he would be dressed up in a UKR uniform by his own side and trotted out as a captured Nazi Jew? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/FPwWkk_XoAMPjsJ_jpg-2353196.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Originally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
I have to imagine that considering the propaganda surrounding Azov in particular as "Nazis" that the best they can hope for if captured is a show trial and speedy execution. Wild guess, but my presumption at this point is that Russia may claim "those guys in particular were the Nazis we were talking about this whole time and we got them" as a way to claw victory from the jaws of defeat if they plan to leave Ukraine soon. I figure the Azov guys know as much, and realize the only viable options are death or victory for them at this point. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/FPwWkk_XoAMPjsJ_jpg-2353196.JPG Don't worry, the putin puffers here have already flipped that around saying the ukrainians forged the docs and dressed him up in a russian outfit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:05:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
I've done that in Battlefield many a time  Just like shooting under a tank at the the Russian legs from the other vid |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:07:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Drones? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By TAP: Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Drones? Yes, there are quite a few Iranian designs proliferated all over this part of the world. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:11:10 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FDC: Don't worry, the putin puffers here have already flipped that around saying the ukrainians forged the docs and dressed him up in a russian outfit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FDC: Originally Posted By M-1975: Originally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
I have to imagine that considering the propaganda surrounding Azov in particular as "Nazis" that the best they can hope for if captured is a show trial and speedy execution. Wild guess, but my presumption at this point is that Russia may claim "those guys in particular were the Nazis we were talking about this whole time and we got them" as a way to claw victory from the jaws of defeat if they plan to leave Ukraine soon. I figure the Azov guys know as much, and realize the only viable options are death or victory for them at this point. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/FPwWkk_XoAMPjsJ_jpg-2353196.JPG Don't worry, the putin puffers here have already flipped that around saying the ukrainians forged the docs and dressed him up in a russian outfit.  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:12:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery:
Historically, the dissidents in Russia/Soviet Union were punished by exiling them to Siberia. I guess professors and students of Novosibirsk U feel pretty secure, they're already there. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:15:14 AM EDT
[#36]
 Savage Rifles in Ukraine |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:18:06 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ricko1: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164452/code_pink_jpg-2353184.JPG Someone needs to add Putins face to the old dude behind the "Negotiate, dont escalate" sign. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:22:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: Yes, there are quite a few Iranian designs proliferated all over this part of the world. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By TAP: Um We fired three in the last week where I am, where we currently have US troops deployed and being attacked but the US citizenry seems to have forgotten about (Iraq and Syria)... Drones? Yes, there are quite a few Iranian designs proliferated all over this part of the world. Wish we did hear about more about what's happening in that part of the world. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:23:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I’ll take a stab at damage analysis, working from stern forward: First, overall the ship appears to be quite low in the water. The fantail is down to about 2’ of freeboard, so the ship overall is down about 6-8’. It doesn’t look like it has either fore or aft trim. List looks like 15-20 degrees. Not sure if there’s damage to the helo pad, or there’s just crap on it. Hangar doors are open, so they probably shoved the helo over the stern as a fire hazard. Railings at stern look broken. No obvious explosive damage to the OSA SAM mount beyond smoke. Mount is still housed so they never got it into action. Torpedo mount doors are closed, no obvious damage. The torps would be an obvious thing to jettison in a fire, but no sign this happened. Torps going off would’ve blown a massive hole in the ship. Fire-fighting/washdown system still working, indicating the ship had some power when abandoned. Smoke damage at fantail entrance to main deck, and at every maindeck porthole all the way forward, indicating smoke/fire almost the whole length of the portside main deck. Here’s where it gets really interesting. At the forward edge of the aft deckhouse it looks like the hull is split open vertically and buckled longitudinally. The forward/starboard deck of the S-300 battery looks like it has partially collapsed, while the starboard aft side of the S-300 deck appears to be bulged up, though this is only partly visible. The deck itself also appears to be distorted. Moving forward, the remains of the cutter may be on deck. Fuel for the cutter may have been a source of flammables if stored in the area. The two AK-630 CIWS mounts cannot be seen. There appear to still be fires in this area. Moreover, you appear to be able to see into a hull compartment under where the forward CIWS mount was. Just forward of that is a dark feature that may or may not be a waterline missile hit. Forward, though mostly obscured by smoke, the P1000 ASM battery appears to be intact and there does not appear to be the sort of damage that would occur from one or more 1000-pound detonations. It’s possible that a procedure exists for emergency missile jettison - i.e. where the missile can be expelled from the tube without activating the main motor. This would remove a significant source of explosives, flammables, and topside weight.’ I’ll take a stab at the sequence of events. 1)Moskva hit by only one Neptune at or near waterline, just forward of the foremost port CIWS. Warhead explodes, starting fires in both CIWS magazines which explode, blowing the AK-630 mounts overboard and blowing several deck plates off above the waterline. 2)This destroys the cutter and starts a fire in the cutter’s fuel storage. This makes its way to the S300 battery immediately aft of the cutter. 3)One or more missile motors in the S300 battery light off, venting through the weather deck, bulging/collapsing it, and partly breaking the hull at the aft end of the battery. One or more S300 warheads explode at 300 pounds each. It’s quite possible there is also underwater damage around the S-300 battery that we can’t see. 4)casualties would likely be heavy from the missile hit amidships, the subsequent CIWS magazine detonation, the cutter fire, the immolation of the S300 battery and portside main deck, and damage control efforts thereafter. It is also likely that there is similar fire damage on the starboard main deck due to the S300 battery fire, meaning there is another source for significant casualties that we can’t see. 5)Firefighting efforts probably added to the stability problems they were experiencing. Ultimately a decision was made that further efforts were hopeless, and ship was abandoned before the list became excessive. 6)The ship may or may not have been objectively salvageable with good damage control, but the overall damage looks like a total constructive loss. It would never serve as a warship again even if it made port under tow. There was probably significant hull damage around the S300 battery, possibly worse than the actual missile hit. This may have been a factor in the decision to abandon ship, and it’s possible they opened scuttle valves to hasten the sinking. 7)The Russian story had elements of truth. They did have a fire (in the CIWS magazines and cutter fuel storage) which then led to fire/detonations in the S300 magazine. This caused hull damage and off-center flooding which was exacerbated by firefighting water, and ultimately the ship capsized. Really, it’s like they just lopped off “First the Neptune hit, then…”. They are also clearly lying about casualties. That looks like 30-40% casualties to me, depending on how many they lost in damage control and the abandonment. The Russians won’t be able to sweep this under the rug. 8)TLDR - One Neptune hit and did significant damage, but the ensuing fire and explosions in the S300 battery killed the Moskva. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By Featureless: Interesting. Looks like a Slava from comparing pictures. https://www.militaryimages.net/media/guided-missile-cruiser-moskva-russian-navy.16533/ As someone pointed out, the life rafts are deployed - or missing from the racks adjacent to the helo hangar as are two boats seen in the other pic. One amidships just aft of the crane, the other on the port side near where the damage seems to be heaviest. It's listing. Very low in the water. Not stormy at all at this time. Nor is it middle of the night - what was the reported time of the attack?? Looks like firefighting water streams near the helo hangar. It appears already abandoned, the ship this is taken from is quite close. And the shoulder seems rather casual - maybe not worried about fires and explosions? If nothing else, I'd rather be upwind, staying out of the smoke, etc. The damage appears mostly aft of the big deck mount launchers. It doesn't appear heavily damaged by big explosions. If the ship is poorly maintained, combine that with limited damage control skills, it may not have the basic raw watertight integrity to stay afloat even with rather limited damage if not being actively fought for.? Although it can take quite a while for a ship to sink. Did they abandon ship before they needed to? Or was damage extensive enough, further efforts were futile and dangerous. I’ll take a stab at damage analysis, working from stern forward: First, overall the ship appears to be quite low in the water. The fantail is down to about 2’ of freeboard, so the ship overall is down about 6-8’. It doesn’t look like it has either fore or aft trim. List looks like 15-20 degrees. Not sure if there’s damage to the helo pad, or there’s just crap on it. Hangar doors are open, so they probably shoved the helo over the stern as a fire hazard. Railings at stern look broken. No obvious explosive damage to the OSA SAM mount beyond smoke. Mount is still housed so they never got it into action. Torpedo mount doors are closed, no obvious damage. The torps would be an obvious thing to jettison in a fire, but no sign this happened. Torps going off would’ve blown a massive hole in the ship. Fire-fighting/washdown system still working, indicating the ship had some power when abandoned. Smoke damage at fantail entrance to main deck, and at every maindeck porthole all the way forward, indicating smoke/fire almost the whole length of the portside main deck. Here’s where it gets really interesting. At the forward edge of the aft deckhouse it looks like the hull is split open vertically and buckled longitudinally. The forward/starboard deck of the S-300 battery looks like it has partially collapsed, while the starboard aft side of the S-300 deck appears to be bulged up, though this is only partly visible. The deck itself also appears to be distorted. Moving forward, the remains of the cutter may be on deck. Fuel for the cutter may have been a source of flammables if stored in the area. The two AK-630 CIWS mounts cannot be seen. There appear to still be fires in this area. Moreover, you appear to be able to see into a hull compartment under where the forward CIWS mount was. Just forward of that is a dark feature that may or may not be a waterline missile hit. Forward, though mostly obscured by smoke, the P1000 ASM battery appears to be intact and there does not appear to be the sort of damage that would occur from one or more 1000-pound detonations. It’s possible that a procedure exists for emergency missile jettison - i.e. where the missile can be expelled from the tube without activating the main motor. This would remove a significant source of explosives, flammables, and topside weight.’ I’ll take a stab at the sequence of events. 1)Moskva hit by only one Neptune at or near waterline, just forward of the foremost port CIWS. Warhead explodes, starting fires in both CIWS magazines which explode, blowing the AK-630 mounts overboard and blowing several deck plates off above the waterline. 2)This destroys the cutter and starts a fire in the cutter’s fuel storage. This makes its way to the S300 battery immediately aft of the cutter. 3)One or more missile motors in the S300 battery light off, venting through the weather deck, bulging/collapsing it, and partly breaking the hull at the aft end of the battery. One or more S300 warheads explode at 300 pounds each. It’s quite possible there is also underwater damage around the S-300 battery that we can’t see. 4)casualties would likely be heavy from the missile hit amidships, the subsequent CIWS magazine detonation, the cutter fire, the immolation of the S300 battery and portside main deck, and damage control efforts thereafter. It is also likely that there is similar fire damage on the starboard main deck due to the S300 battery fire, meaning there is another source for significant casualties that we can’t see. 5)Firefighting efforts probably added to the stability problems they were experiencing. Ultimately a decision was made that further efforts were hopeless, and ship was abandoned before the list became excessive. 6)The ship may or may not have been objectively salvageable with good damage control, but the overall damage looks like a total constructive loss. It would never serve as a warship again even if it made port under tow. There was probably significant hull damage around the S300 battery, possibly worse than the actual missile hit. This may have been a factor in the decision to abandon ship, and it’s possible they opened scuttle valves to hasten the sinking. 7)The Russian story had elements of truth. They did have a fire (in the CIWS magazines and cutter fuel storage) which then led to fire/detonations in the S300 magazine. This caused hull damage and off-center flooding which was exacerbated by firefighting water, and ultimately the ship capsized. Really, it’s like they just lopped off “First the Neptune hit, then…”. They are also clearly lying about casualties. That looks like 30-40% casualties to me, depending on how many they lost in damage control and the abandonment. The Russians won’t be able to sweep this under the rug. 8)TLDR - One Neptune hit and did significant damage, but the ensuing fire and explosions in the S300 battery killed the Moskva. So in layman’s terms, they packed so many weapons on that boat, that any hit could set the whole thing off? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:26:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FDC: Don't worry, the putin puffers here have already flipped that around saying the ukrainians forged the docs and dressed him up in a russian outfit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FDC: Originally Posted By M-1975: Originally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By M-1975: Graphic:
I have to imagine that considering the propaganda surrounding Azov in particular as "Nazis" that the best they can hope for if captured is a show trial and speedy execution. Wild guess, but my presumption at this point is that Russia may claim "those guys in particular were the Nazis we were talking about this whole time and we got them" as a way to claw victory from the jaws of defeat if they plan to leave Ukraine soon. I figure the Azov guys know as much, and realize the only viable options are death or victory for them at this point. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/FPwWkk_XoAMPjsJ_jpg-2353196.JPG Don't worry, the putin puffers here have already flipped that around saying the ukrainians forged the docs and dressed him up in a russian outfit. Be careful. Call someone here a Russian shill....thats been reposting exclusively anti-UKR and RT propaganda stories all month....and they may TRY to whine to mods that its a "personal attack" lolol. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:28:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Are the Ukrainians for the most part operating inside the Russian's decision cycle?
Or has it been a techno/armor slugfest so far? |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:28:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAP: Yes, there are quite a few Iranian designs proliferated all over this part of the world. Stay safe and get your asses home! WTF ya'll still doing there? Never mind, dont get into trouble. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:30:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Soon to be: One Student out of two gets a rifle. The one Stundent without follows him! When the one Student with the rifle gets killed, the one Student who is following picks up the rifle and shoots! Sad thing is that Russians could have a good life and living standard if they un-fucked their culture of corruption and psycopathic leadership. They killed off all of the wolves and all that were left were the sheep and cowards. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:32:56 AM EDT
[#44]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:36:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#45]
Video has also since emerged which appears to show two rescue vessels approaching the burning ship - one to the left side and one to the right - in which a Russian voice can be heard speaking. One man says 'what the f*** are you doing?' before the short clip ends.
Analysts and experts who reviewed the images say they do appear genuine. It is unlikely that Russia will confirm the authenticity of the pictures, amid a near-total information blackout around the sinking which is a huge embarrassment to Vladimir Putin's beleaguered armed forces. Moscow did stage what appeared to be a parade of crew members in the port of Sevastopol - in occupied Crimea - on Sunday, during which the captain of the warship and between 150 and 250 members of its crew were shown on camera alongside Black Sea Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov. The Moskva typically carries up to 510 sailors, and there was no word on the whereabouts of the remaining crew or their condition. But horror accounts of the sinking have started to emerge from conscripts serving on board the ship, with one telling his parents that at least 40 members of the crew were killed with 'many' left missing or maimed with lost limbs after the strike. Hundreds are thought to have died as the vessel went down. VIDEO  Parents of another conscript say they have found out some 200 were wounded - many with horrific burns and other major injuries. She indicated that the Defence Ministry is stopping the survivors from going home, perhaps to prevent accounts of the calamity for Putin reaching the outside world. Speaking about the sinking of the Moskva, one mother who spoke to Russian investigative newspaper Novaya Gazeta - which is now operating outside the country having been gagged by Putin - said: 'I first heard from him only on 15 April, two days after the incident.' 'My son said the cruiser was hit from the land, from the Ukrainian side, because the fire on board would not have started without a reason. There are people who were killed, wounded and missing. 'My son called me as soon as they were given phones [after being rescued]. Their documents and phones were on the cruiser. He called me, and he cried over what he had seen. It was horrendous. Clearly not everyone survived.' She said: 'Most of the wounded have limbs torn off, because of the explosions from both the missiles and the detonated ammunition. My son was crying when he called me on 15 April. 'He said: 'Mamochka (tender for mum), I never thought I'd get into such a mess during supposedly peaceful times. I won't even tell you the details of what I've seen, it was so horrendous.' The mother said: 'I don't want to share his name because I am scared to damage my son. They signed non-disclosure agreements before boarding the cruiser. Please understand me, I am terrified. I am petrified, and I don't know how I will wait for my son to return.'   'I've no idea how I'll live through this while waiting for my son to return, waiting for him to finish his service. It's awful. And the [state] media, of course, doesn't give any details. Why? Because the Ministry of Defence doesn't want to admit defeat by Ukraine. It doesn't want to admit that such a cruiser sank.' Separately, a father has vowed to find out the truth about his conscript son Yegor Shkrebets, 20, a ship's cook on the Moskva, now missing presumed dead. Dmitry, from Yalta in annexed Crimea, said: 'It was reported [by Russian state media] that the entire crew had been evacuated. It is a lie. A blatant and cynical lie. My son is a conscript, and as I was informed by the immediate commanders of the cruiser Moskva, he is not among the dead and wounded and is included in the list of missing. 'A conscript who was not supposed to take part in hostilities is listed as missing….missing on the high seas. After my attempts to clarify the data on the incident, the cruiser commander and his deputy stopped communicating. 'I asked directly: How come you, the officers, are alive, and my son, a conscript soldier, died?' The father said: 'They tried to tow the cruiser to Sevastopol, but on the way it suddenly sank. Keep thinking for yourselves. I, Dmitry Shkrebets, the father of this conscript Yegor Shkrebets ask everyone who is not afraid and not indifferent. 'Spread this appeal of mine wherever you have the opportunity so that the bastards do not hush up this terrible tragedy. Take care of your children, take care of each other. And I will devote my whole future life to ensuring that the truth wins in this story. A man whose son was taken away in such a vile way is not afraid of anything. 'Thank you for not being indifferent. Soon they will delete this post again, so copy it.' He implies that his earlier post was deleted by the VK - Russian social media - administration. Yegor's mother Irina Shkrebets told The Insider and said that she and her husband had been to a hospital in Skalistaya Bay, where they brought the wounded from the cruiser. According to her, there were about 200 injured sailors. Irina said: 'We looked at every burned [young sailor]. I cannot express how hard it is, but I didn't find mine. There were only 200 there, and there were more than five hundred on the cruiser. 'Where are the others? We turned to Krasnodar, and other [cities], called everyone, but we couldn't find him.' Her son had been conscripted in August and was involved in the incident when the Moskva took Snake Island early in the war. After the Moskva was sunk, she said: 'We went to the unit. The commander came out, threw up his hands and said: "I won't tell you anything." 'I said: "Where is my son?", and he said: "Well, somewhere in the sea." My husband began to argue: "What does it mean in the sea? Where have you been?" But unit commander refused to answer. These commanders were not on the ship.' The parents tried to get an answer from the FSB - the Russian Federal Security Service, the main domestic security agency. 'We arrived at the FSB in Sevastopol, where even a man refused to come out - they were standing behind the fence,' she said. 'My husband shouted: "Come out and call the police. Let me punch you in the face." 'He didn't even come out, behind bars he showed his hands criss-cross, to say goodbye, that's all. This is the service of the navy and the FSB of Sevastopol.' They tried to get the authorities to show them the list of the dead and missing, but were refused. A commander who was on the ship also contacted Irina. She recalled: 'I said: "Can you at least tell me how my son died?" And he said: "I don't know anything, they were at the supply post. We had missiles all over the cruiser." He could not say and somehow did not say that a missile had actually hit the cruiser.' Media outlet Agentstvo identified another conscript Mark Tarasov, 24, who was called up after studying at university. His mother Ulyana Tarasova, 47, posted on her social media accounts on April 17: 'My son, Tarasov Mark, went missing on the Cruiser Moskva.' Her son graduated from St. Petersburg State Transport University and was called up in autumn 2021, she said. She posted pictures from the railway station when she saw him off to military service. Taras himself posted pictures with the caption: 'See you in a year'. Agentsvo got in touch with the woman - a friend - who was pictured with Taras on one of the farewell pictures. She confirmed that he had gone to service in the navy. Earlier, Taras - now presumed dead - had travelled to Portugal, Sweden and Greece. Naval chief Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, 60, admitted at the weekend that there had been conscripts on board - despite assurances from the Kremlin that they would not fight in the war. Continued Staged crew members 
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:37:46 AM EDT
[#46]
Well now.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:39:04 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Video has also since emerged which appears to show two rescue vessels approaching the burning ship - one to the left side and one to the right - in which a Russian voice can be heard speaking. One man says 'what the f*** are you doing?' before the short clip ends. Analysts and experts who reviewed the images say they do appear genuine. It is unlikely that Russia will confirm the authenticity of the pictures, amid a near-total information blackout around the sinking which is a huge embarrassment to Vladimir Putin's beleaguered armed forces. Moscow did stage what appeared to be a parade of crew members in the port of Sevastopol - in occupied Crimea - on Sunday, during which the captain of the warship and between 150 and 250 members of its crew were shown on camera alongside Black Sea Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov. The Moskva typically carries up to 510 sailors, and there was no word on the whereabouts of the remaining crew or their condition. But horror accounts of the sinking have started to emerge from conscripts serving on board the ship, with one telling his parents that at least 40 members of the crew were killed with 'many' left missing or maimed with lost limbs after the strike. Hundreds are thought to have died as the vessel went down. VIDEO https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/04/18/09/56736135-10727703-image-a-31_1650271707897.jpg Parents of another conscript say they have found out some 200 were wounded - many with horrific burns and other major injuries. She indicated that the Defence Ministry is stopping the survivors from going home, perhaps to prevent accounts of the calamity for Putin reaching the outside world. Speaking about the sinking of the Moskva, one mother who spoke to Russian investigative newspaper Novaya Gazeta - which is now operating outside the country having been gagged by Putin - said: 'I first heard from him only on 15 April, two days after the incident.' 'My son said the cruiser was hit from the land, from the Ukrainian side, because the fire on board would not have started without a reason. There are people who were killed, wounded and missing. 'My son called me as soon as they were given phones [after being rescued]. Their documents and phones were on the cruiser. He called me, and he cried over what he had seen. It was horrendous. Clearly not everyone survived.' She said: 'Most of the wounded have limbs torn off, because of the explosions from both the missiles and the detonated ammunition. My son was crying when he called me on 15 April. 'He said: 'Mamochka (tender for mum), I never thought I'd get into such a mess during supposedly peaceful times. I won't even tell you the details of what I've seen, it was so horrendous.' The mother said: 'I don't want to share his name because I am scared to damage my son. They signed non-disclosure agreements before boarding the cruiser. Please understand me, I am terrified. I am petrified, and I don't know how I will wait for my son to return.' https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/04/18/08/56600985-10727703-image-a-19_1650265608354.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/04/18/08/56678149-10727703-image-a-27_1650265776833.jpg 'I've no idea how I'll live through this while waiting for my son to return, waiting for him to finish his service. It's awful. And the [state] media, of course, doesn't give any details. Why? Because the Ministry of Defence doesn't want to admit defeat by Ukraine. It doesn't want to admit that such a cruiser sank.' Separately, a father has vowed to find out the truth about his conscript son Yegor Shkrebets, 20, a ship's cook on the Moskva, now missing presumed dead. Dmitry, from Yalta in annexed Crimea, said: 'It was reported [by Russian state media] that the entire crew had been evacuated. It is a lie. A blatant and cynical lie. My son is a conscript, and as I was informed by the immediate commanders of the cruiser Moskva, he is not among the dead and wounded and is included in the list of missing. 'A conscript who was not supposed to take part in hostilities is listed as missing….missing on the high seas. After my attempts to clarify the data on the incident, the cruiser commander and his deputy stopped communicating. 'I asked directly: How come you, the officers, are alive, and my son, a conscript soldier, died?' The father said: 'They tried to tow the cruiser to Sevastopol, but on the way it suddenly sank. Keep thinking for yourselves. I, Dmitry Shkrebets, the father of this conscript Yegor Shkrebets ask everyone who is not afraid and not indifferent. 'Spread this appeal of mine wherever you have the opportunity so that the bastards do not hush up this terrible tragedy. Take care of your children, take care of each other. And I will devote my whole future life to ensuring that the truth wins in this story. A man whose son was taken away in such a vile way is not afraid of anything. 'Thank you for not being indifferent. Soon they will delete this post again, so copy it.' He implies that his earlier post was deleted by the VK - Russian social media - administration. Yegor's mother Irina Shkrebets told The Insider and said that she and her husband had been to a hospital in Skalistaya Bay, where they brought the wounded from the cruiser. According to her, there were about 200 injured sailors. Irina said: 'We looked at every burned [young sailor]. I cannot express how hard it is, but I didn't find mine. There were only 200 there, and there were more than five hundred on the cruiser. 'Where are the others? We turned to Krasnodar, and other [cities], called everyone, but we couldn't find him.' Her son had been conscripted in August and was involved in the incident when the Moskva took Snake Island early in the war. After the Moskva was sunk, she said: 'We went to the unit. The commander came out, threw up his hands and said: "I won't tell you anything." 'I said: "Where is my son?", and he said: "Well, somewhere in the sea." My husband began to argue: "What does it mean in the sea? Where have you been?" But unit commander refused to answer. These commanders were not on the ship.' The parents tried to get an answer from the FSB - the Russian Federal Security Service, the main domestic security agency. 'We arrived at the FSB in Sevastopol, where even a man refused to come out - they were standing behind the fence,' she said. 'My husband shouted: "Come out and call the police. Let me punch you in the face." 'He didn't even come out, behind bars he showed his hands criss-cross, to say goodbye, that's all. This is the service of the navy and the FSB of Sevastopol.' They tried to get the authorities to show them the list of the dead and missing, but were refused. A commander who was on the ship also contacted Irina. She recalled: 'I said: "Can you at least tell me how my son died?" And he said: "I don't know anything, they were at the supply post. We had missiles all over the cruiser." He could not say and somehow did not say that a missile had actually hit the cruiser.' Media outlet Agentstvo identified another conscript Mark Tarasov, 24, who was called up after studying at university. His mother Ulyana Tarasova, 47, posted on her social media accounts on April 17: 'My son, Tarasov Mark, went missing on the Cruiser Moskva.' Her son graduated from St. Petersburg State Transport University and was called up in autumn 2021, she said. She posted pictures from the railway station when she saw him off to military service. Taras himself posted pictures with the caption: 'See you in a year'. Agentsvo got in touch with the woman - a friend - who was pictured with Taras on one of the farewell pictures. She confirmed that he had gone to service in the navy. Earlier, Taras - now presumed dead - had travelled to Portugal, Sweden and Greece. Naval chief Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, 60, admitted at the weekend that there had been conscripts on board - despite assurances from the Kremlin that they would not fight in the war. Continued Staged crew members https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/04/18/08/56734363-10727703-image-a-21_1650265623738.jpg Their orclings are not dead,they’re engaged in a special military hibernation. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:40:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Are the Ukrainians for the most part operating inside the Russian's decision cycle? Or has it been a techno/armor slugfest so far? Seems to be a lot of the former. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:44:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Staged crew members https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/04/18/08/56734363-10727703-image-a-21_1650265623738.jpg Ah, the only thing I can imagine that would be worse than being involved in a parade/formation just a day or two after having my ship sunk from under me is actually being part of the crew on a different ship and holding formation pretending to be the guys who got sunk. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/18/2022 9:46:13 AM EDT
[#50]
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
