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Posted: 6/15/2022 3:25:13 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: haha genius Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: Originally Posted By iggy1337: Now I imagine that's pretty important news. Dear CIA glowies please consider my plan to just gift Ukraine pre programmed cruise missiles mid flight  haha genius Someone did a mspaint of that 1000 pages ago. It was funny. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 3:42:25 PM EST
[#2]
https://georgiatoday.ge/consultations-on-referendum-on-unification-of-occupied-tskhinvali-with-russia-to-be-held-in-moscow/?fbclid=IwAR2WSNom2P4gTDpT5atQZ4B0KlrXpnIAk06OcjVG43MPGtyD7k1GNqGzEEo Consultations on ‘Referendum’ on Unification of Occupied Tskhinvali with Russia To Be Held in Moscow Consultations on the so-called referendum on the unification of occupied Tskhinvali with Russia will be held in Moscow on June 14, reports Sputnik. “Consultations will be held on June 14. The delegation also includes parliament speaker Alan Tadtaev, supreme court chairman Olesia Kochieva, central election commission chairman Emilia Gagiev, acting foreign minister Dmitri Medoev and presidential adviser Konstantin Kochiev,” Sputnik says. In late March, the former de facto leader of the so-called republic, Anatoly Bibilov, announced that “South Ossetia” would take steps to join Russia and unite with North Ossetia. Bibilov said the “republic” has repeatedly tried to join Russia, and the people want to achieve this goal. “Decisions on the Arctic without Moscow make no sense, Medvedev said”
http://politics.people.com.cn/n1/2022/0615/c1024-32447528.html …Putin said that under the strong leadership of President Xi Jinping, China has achieved remarkable development achievements, and the Russian side expresses its heartfelt congratulations. Since the beginning of this year, Russia-China practical cooperation has developed steadily. The Russian side supports the global security initiative proposed by the Chinese side, and opposes any forces to interfere in China's internal affairs under the pretext of the so-called Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan and other issues. effort. Two RU fighters take off from Baranovichi, Belarus 
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Posted: 6/15/2022 3:48:10 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: Someone did a mspaint of that 1000 pages ago. It was funny. It's meme-worthy and worth just a chuckle or two, but you know what? I wish our governments had the BALLS to do something that silly and creative. Russia sits back and says "uh, so we're gonna hold totally free and fair referendums in these places we invaded, it's totally legit!" Guys like Peskov say totally insane nonsense, and guys like Lavrov literally threaten nuclear war just because it's Tuesday, with zero apparent consequence. They just keep spouting this bullshit and we sit back and let them.  We should find a couple of "fig leaf" things like firing from small patches of international waters in the Baltic or where ever, and get the Poles in on the joke to, "granting permission for overflights" instantaneously, and then absolutely do that, "gifting" the weapons to Ukraine in-flight. We should employ every fucked up and stupid subterfuge we want to do whatever we want, because that's what the Russians do. Another fun one would be for all of the Russian yachts we seize, should suddenly be found "drifting without power or control at risk of creating a hazards to navigation" and then sink them as targets, with shitloads of video footage from various angles. AND while you do that, invite foreign reps from NATO MoDs and their Navies to watch, and then explain it was a pure coincidence that they were present when we were forced to use our latest ASMs and other weapons to remove these "hazards to navigation". Luxury Villa on Lake Cuomo? "Mysterious house fires", rinse and repeat with everything of theirs that we can touch. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 4:01:34 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVTMgLHWYAA30qH?format=jpg&name=large Looks like the aftermath of a GreenPeace mostly peaceful protest. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 4:12:55 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Russia aims to boot former Soviet nations from NATO They can shit in one hand and wish into the other and see which fills up first. Stupid Gopnik trash. W Why are they thinking so small? A CHAD Regime would cancel the sale of Alaska and demand that the US be kicked out of NATO because it’s borders are now “disputed”. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 4:23:22 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: It's meme-worthy and worth just a chuckle or two, but you know what? I wish our governments had the BALLS to do something that silly and creative. Russia sits back and says "uh, so we're gonna hold totally free and fair referendums in these places we invaded, it's totally legit!" Guys like Peskov say totally insane nonsense, and guys like Lavrov literally threaten nuclear war just because it's Tuesday, with zero apparent consequence. They just keep spouting this bullshit and we sit back and let them. We should find a couple of "fig leaf" things like firing from small patches of international waters in the Baltic or where ever, and get the Poles in on the joke to, "granting permission for overflights" instantaneously, and then absolutely do that, "gifting" the weapons to Ukraine in-flight. We should employ every fucked up and stupid subterfuge we want to do whatever we want, because that's what the Russians do. Another fun one would be for all of the Russian yachts we seize, should suddenly be found "drifting without power or control at risk of creating a hazards to navigation" and then sink them as targets, with shitloads of video footage from various angles. AND while you do that, invite foreign reps from NATO MoDs and their Navies to watch, and then explain it was a pure coincidence that they were present when we were forced to use our latest ASMs and other weapons to remove these "hazards to navigation". Luxury Villa on Lake Cuomo? "Mysterious house fires", rinse and repeat with everything of theirs that we can touch. Better yet, Poland rolls into Ukraine, digs in north of Kyiv, and announces they are “denazifying Ukraine”. Of course, thier positions will look an awful lot like they are really blocking any attempt to invade from Belarus, but the Polish Foreign Ministry will deny that strenuously and insist they are looking ever so diligently for “Nazis” and describe thier progress in finding them in daily press briefings. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 4:32:40 PM EST
[#7]
Realistically, how much will this new aid package do in terms of stopping the Russian advance (or driving them back) in the Donbas? I know Ukraine needs artillery and ammo bad, considering they're almost out of 152mm.
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Posted: 6/15/2022 4:43:06 PM EST
[#8]
Cisco leaving Russia.
https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2022-06-14_cisco_okonchatelno_uhodit_iz_3 |
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USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:33:05 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Greece reduces BMP-1 commitment to Ukraine from 122 to 20-30 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-06-15_04-48-37_jpg-2418913.JPG Lame, but it is interesting to see an M2 on a BMP. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:37:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Realistically, how much will this new aid package do in terms of stopping the Russian advance (or driving them back) in the Donbas? I know Ukraine needs artillery and ammo bad, considering they're almost out of 152mm. If we go by what the aid packages are saying, basically you could replace the questionable practice of using the Ukrainian air force for lofting unguided rocket attacks with an artillery version of precision strikes that could go 70km behind the Russian fronts. Free up the aircraft to kill drones and Russian helicopters and aircraft. Strike high value targets like ammo dumps and communication nodes leading to the front. 4 HIMARS with 24 guided rounds could do a lot of damage for example, with the targeting info the US claims they will provide. Then its reload and repeat. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:43:06 PM EST
[#11]
ISW June 15th assessment.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-15 |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:47:48 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: The angled bits are a thin skin hollow shape over vertical armor. Nothings going to bounce, supposed to mess with long rod penetrators somehow, set them up to fail against the vertical plate https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/514E8ED3-A62D-4EA5-82C4-1946987A73DF_jpe-2418718.JPG That may well be. For an army that has, shall we say, an ambivalent view of their predecessors, we should note that the panther A of WWII was pretty much impenetrable from the front, other then the most famous shot trap of any WWII tank. Building a tank, calling it a panther, and making an obvious shot trap looking architecture is reminding everyone of the thing you don't like to be reminded of. It may work awesomely but its odd. Cool vid follows:   PANTHER SHOT TRAP SIMULATION | M4 Sherman M72 vs Panther A | Ansys Armour Piercing Simulation |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:53:07 PM EST
[#13]
For the long time listeners that tuned in to listen to long number streams back in Jan/Feb, here toy go.
Cold War Conversations podcast on the legacy broadcasts. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:56:21 PM EST
[#14]
 Ukraine War Footage Day 112 Summary | The Enforcer Short Clips |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 6:02:13 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Russia aims to boot former Soviet nations from NATO Wow, they really don't respect anyone's intelligence at all, do they? |
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USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 6:51:04 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Wow, they really don't respect anyone's intelligence at all, do they? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By ludder093: Russia aims to boot former Soviet nations from NATO Wow, they really don't respect anyone's intelligence at all, do they? https://tass.com/world/1404247 MOSCOW, February 16. /TASS/. Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova has jokingly asked American and British media outlets to release a schedule of Russia’s "upcoming invasions" of Ukraine for the current year. "I’d like to request US and British disinformation: Bloomberg, The New York Times and The Sun media outlets to publish the schedule for our upcoming invasions for the year. I’d like to plan my vacation," the Russian diplomat said on her Telegram channel Wednesday. Bruh. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:19:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#17]
Dutch.gov sending Harpoon missiles.
No info on how many but as far as I know they are all shipbased here, so NL might be sending them as 'extra ammo' for groud based systems they are getting. On a side note I'm not quite sure these are not the land/sea attack versions. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:30:26 PM EST
[#18]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:43:36 PM EST
[#19]
Two Americans Feared Captured By Russians In Ukraine
The State Department said it’s aware of “unconfirmed” reports of Americans captured by Russians and urged citizens not to fight in Ukraine. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/two-americans-feared-captured-by-russians-in-ukraine New $1B U.S. Aid Includes Harpoon Missiles, More Precision Rockets For Ukraine U.S. officials: Ukrainians are ‘top-notch’ gunners who are putting NATO-donated artillery to good use against superior Russian firepower. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/new-1b-u-s-aid-includes-harpoon-missiles-more-precision-rockets-for-ukraine |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:47:21 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: If we go by what the aid packages are saying, basically you could replace the questionable practice of using the Ukrainian air force for lofting unguided rocket attacks with an artillery version of precision strikes that could go 70km behind the Russian fronts. Free up the aircraft to kill drones and Russian helicopters and aircraft. Strike high value targets like ammo dumps and communication nodes leading to the front. 4 HIMARS with 24 guided rounds could do a lot of damage for example, with the targeting info the US claims they will provide. Then its reload and repeat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Realistically, how much will this new aid package do in terms of stopping the Russian advance (or driving them back) in the Donbas? I know Ukraine needs artillery and ammo bad, considering they're almost out of 152mm. If we go by what the aid packages are saying, basically you could replace the questionable practice of using the Ukrainian air force for lofting unguided rocket attacks with an artillery version of precision strikes that could go 70km behind the Russian fronts. Free up the aircraft to kill drones and Russian helicopters and aircraft. Strike high value targets like ammo dumps and communication nodes leading to the front. 4 HIMARS with 24 guided rounds could do a lot of damage for example, with the targeting info the US claims they will provide. Then its reload and repeat. The initial 4 were for evaluation, the intent was to send more if effective and feasable (according to the gov info a couple of hundred pages back I think) |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:48:23 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: https://tass.com/world/1404247 Bruh. And the pro-Russian shills were parroting that shit then, too. "They're just doing exercises! Stop being paranoid! Are you senile, like Biden? Whaddabout Able Archer!?" |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:49:33 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: The initial 4 were for evaluation, the intent was to send more if effective and feasable (according to the gov info a couple of hundred pages back I think) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Realistically, how much will this new aid package do in terms of stopping the Russian advance (or driving them back) in the Donbas? I know Ukraine needs artillery and ammo bad, considering they're almost out of 152mm. If we go by what the aid packages are saying, basically you could replace the questionable practice of using the Ukrainian air force for lofting unguided rocket attacks with an artillery version of precision strikes that could go 70km behind the Russian fronts. Free up the aircraft to kill drones and Russian helicopters and aircraft. Strike high value targets like ammo dumps and communication nodes leading to the front. 4 HIMARS with 24 guided rounds could do a lot of damage for example, with the targeting info the US claims they will provide. Then its reload and repeat. The initial 4 were for evaluation, the intent was to send more if effective and feasable (according to the gov info a couple of hundred pages back I think) I'm guessing there would be more eventually, but as an example it shows how just 4 units in an area with the guided rockets could do a lot of damage. If things are set up right, they could reload pretty fast too. The more the better. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:50:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#23]
Excellent thread by Kamil Galeev about:
a) Why the collapse of imports from sanctions makes the Ruble rise (hint: it's not a good sign that the Ruble is stronger) b) How Germany and France make beaucoup $$ building Russia's war machine and why they don't want it over/back to business as usual. c) How sanctions are crippling wide sectors of the economy: example of SKF and Timken bearing joint ventures shutting down.
Long thread, but here's a teaser. Why France is a surrender monkey: they are filling much of the demand for war supplies since 1st round of sanctions in 2014. Here's the arms-related export licenses from France to Russia, spiking hard in 2015:  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:50:22 PM EST
[#24]
I saw an article this morn where a US intelligence agent said that Ukraine has a shit ton of switchblade drones in storage because they would rather use off the shelf drones with homemade bombs due to ease of use, sure hope that article isn't accurate and they are using what they are given with the upmost vigor
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:56:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I saw an article this morn where a US intelligence agent said that Ukraine has a shit ton of switchblade drones in storage because they would rather use off the shelf drones with homemade bombs due to ease of use, sure hope that article isn't accurate and they are using what they are given with the upmost vigor Plenty of reasons for that I can think of: a) want to train effectively on them, not distribute them willy-nilly b) not as valuable a weapon vs. improvised stuff in static warfare; reserve them for use in more mobile situations c) husbanding resources in anticipation of more desperate defensive or for offensive break-through. Short: we don't know. They have multiple systems with different capabilities. Command chooses to use what works where when fighting with limited resources. You can't read too much into one data point. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:57:27 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I saw an article this morn where a US intelligence agent said that Ukraine has a shit ton of switchblade drones in storage because they would rather use off the shelf drones with homemade bombs due to ease of use, sure hope that article isn't accurate and they are using what they are given with the upmost vigor Could easily be true. Time to crowdsource the pilots. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 7:59:36 PM EST
[#27]
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:11:00 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally...Posted...By...ludder093: Russia...aims...to...boot...former...Soviet...nations...from...NATO |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:12:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 74HC]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally...Posted...By...74HC: Really...good...insight,...but...just...a...harvard...way...of...saying...russia...wants...to...own...those...three...countries...territories...just...like...they...want...Ukraine.......We...all...knew...that...long...ago...here...on...ARFCOM...and...said...so....We...said...that...russia...will...not...stop...with...Ukraine.......So...of...us...went...so...far...and...said,...myself...included,...that...Putin...wants...to...re-establish...the...old...iron...curtain. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:13:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 74HC]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: That...was...Brave...browser...with...the...periods...as...whitespace. ...This...is...Epic. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:13:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: josepha1]
[#31]
dot dot dot
(chrome, yeah I know) |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:15:16 PM EST
[#32]
Poland is all in.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:19:53 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Poland is all in. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:36:25 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Realistically, how much will this new aid package do in terms of stopping the Russian advance (or driving them back) in the Donbas? I know Ukraine needs artillery and ammo bad, considering they're almost out of 152mm. It is hard to say. I'm going to need to dive deeper into what is actually being promised in this round of aid. Looking at the soundbites, it appears Lloyd Austin is promising 100 GMLRS rockets for each of the systems we are donating (so 400 guided rockets?), another 18 M777 155mm howitzers and trucks to tow them with, along with an additional 36,000 rounds of 155mm projectiles and secure radio systems. Obviously, the guided rockets with U.S. intel for targeting purposes will allow Ukraine to service lots of worthy targets. It will allow them to do quite a bit more damage with the 4 HIMARS systems they receive than one would think when considering such a small number of launchers. And the 36,000 rounds of artillery ammunition will certainly be welcome. But I am disappointed to see we are only offering an additional 18 M777 howitzers in this package. While that is enough to equip an entire battalion and seems like a lot, realistically, Ukraine needs hundreds of new artillery pieces to even the odds with Russia. They already have plenty of 155mm ammo, what they need is more 155mm guns. I do not know what other countries may have pledged today at the NATO meeting, but why haven't we contributed any M109 self propelled howitzers? I know we have some of these in storage in addition to what is equipping our forces. While we may not be able to send many more M777 howitzers without weakening our own forces, why can't we send surplus M109's? Why can't we send the older M198 155mm towed guns? I know we've already donated some of those to other countries, but we still probably have at least several hundred in storage. Ukrainians are desperate for artillery systems. We should send them every single gun we can spare. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:55:01 PM EST
[#35]
UAF eliminated Russian military propagandist Sergei Postnov
He has filmed propaganda content in Ukraine since the start of the full-scale invasion. As part of the V group, he broke through to Gostomel, then participated in the capture of a number of cities and towns in the Kharkov and Luhansk regions.  https://t.me/ragnarockkyiv/28658 A resistance movement has begun to operate in Mariupol, - Mayor's adviser Piotr Andryushchekno. On June 9, two tractors and three large trailers for trucks suddenly burned down at the parking lot of the Ministry of Emergency Situations of the Russian Federation. The reason is arson. On June 11, in the crowd behind a humanitarian aid near the Metro, an unknown person stabbed an employee of the Ministry of Emergency Situations of the Russian Federation in the back, he did not survive. Shit on fire, yo Open air morgue in Mariupol Wounded Ukrainian soldiers are treated like celebrities in a Kyiv train station. Russian, but respect anyway.  The Kerch bridge will be the number one target for the defenders of Ukraine after receiving the promised weapons, - said Major General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Dmitry Marchenko. "This is not a secret either for their military or for our military. Neither for their civilians, nor for our civilians. This will be the number one target for defeat ... We, as it were, should simply cut off the main gut of pulling up reserves. And believe me: those who ran in Simferopol and Crimea with Russian flags, they will quickly get Ukrainian ones and will run around with them..." Marchenko said. https://t.me/newspn/24163 |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 8:58:24 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: That may well be. For an army that has, shall we say, an ambivalent view of their predecessors, we should note that the panther A of WWII was pretty much impenetrable from the front, other then the most famous shot trap of any WWII tank. Building a tank, calling it a panther, and making an obvious shot trap looking architecture is reminding everyone of the thing you don't like to be reminded of. It may work awesomely but its odd. Cool vid follows: https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/Panzer-1200x350-c-default.jpg  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbikYYmMT2MShot traps aren’t a consideration on modern armor due to ammo construction |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:00:47 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: It is hard to say. I'm going to need to dive deeper into what is actually being promised in this round of aid. Looking at the soundbites, it appears Lloyd Austin is promising 100 GMLRS rockets for each of the systems we are donating (so 400 guided rockets?), another 18 M777 155mm howitzers and trucks to tow them with, along with an additional 36,000 rounds of 155mm projectiles and secure radio systems. Obviously, the guided rockets with U.S. intel for targeting purposes will allow Ukraine to service lots of worthy targets. It will allow them to do quite a bit more damage with the 4 HIMARS systems they receive than one would think when considering such a small number of launchers. And the 36,000 rounds of artillery ammunition will certainly be welcome. But I am disappointed to see we are only offering an additional 18 M777 howitzers in this package. While that is enough to equip an entire battalion and seems like a lot, realistically, Ukraine needs hundreds of new artillery pieces to even the odds with Russia. They already have plenty of 155mm ammo, what they need is more 155mm guns. I do not know what other countries may have pledged today at the NATO meeting, but why haven't we contributed any M109 self propelled howitzers? I know we have some of these in storage in addition to what is equipping our forces. While we may not be able to send many more M777 howitzers without weakening our own forces, why can't we send surplus M109's? Why can't we send the older M198 155mm towed guns? I know we've already donated some of those to other countries, but we still probably have at least several hundred in storage. Ukrainians are desperate for artillery systems. We should send them every single gun we can spare. You’re not wrong. But…six days worth of shells. At current usage. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:01:21 PM EST
[#38]
The US should send a half a dozen ATACMS missiles to Ukraine with ground branch minders to ensure they are used against the Kerch Bridge.
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:08:43 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The US should send a half a dozen ATACMS missiles to Ukraine with ground branch minders to ensure they are used against the Kerch Bridge. 100 percent! And another 10 for there navy docks in crimea! |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:13:01 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The US should send a half a dozen ATACMS missiles to Ukraine with ground branch minders to ensure they are used against the Kerch Bridge. Agreed. US advisors to ensure they don't end up in Russia but nailing Kilos in Sevastopol should be fair as well as the Kerch bridge |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:24:46 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: It is hard to say. I'm going to need to dive deeper into what is actually being promised in this round of aid. Looking at the soundbites, it appears Lloyd Austin is promising 100 GMLRS rockets for each of the systems we are donating (so 400 guided rockets?), another 18 M777 155mm howitzers and trucks to tow them with, along with an additional 36,000 rounds of 155mm projectiles and secure radio systems. Obviously, the guided rockets with U.S. intel for targeting purposes will allow Ukraine to service lots of worthy targets. It will allow them to do quite a bit more damage with the 4 HIMARS systems they receive than one would think when considering such a small number of launchers. And the 36,000 rounds of artillery ammunition will certainly be welcome. But I am disappointed to see we are only offering an additional 18 M777 howitzers in this package. While that is enough to equip an entire battalion and seems like a lot, realistically, Ukraine needs hundreds of new artillery pieces to even the odds with Russia. They already have plenty of 155mm ammo, what they need is more 155mm guns. I do not know what other countries may have pledged today at the NATO meeting, but why haven't we contributed any M109 self propelled howitzers? I know we have some of these in storage in addition to what is equipping our forces. While we may not be able to send many more M777 howitzers without weakening our own forces, why can't we send surplus M109's? Why can't we send the older M198 155mm towed guns? I know we've already donated some of those to other countries, but we still probably have at least several hundred in storage. Ukrainians are desperate for artillery systems. We should send them every single gun we can spare. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Realistically, how much will this new aid package do in terms of stopping the Russian advance (or driving them back) in the Donbas? I know Ukraine needs artillery and ammo bad, considering they're almost out of 152mm. It is hard to say. I'm going to need to dive deeper into what is actually being promised in this round of aid. Looking at the soundbites, it appears Lloyd Austin is promising 100 GMLRS rockets for each of the systems we are donating (so 400 guided rockets?), another 18 M777 155mm howitzers and trucks to tow them with, along with an additional 36,000 rounds of 155mm projectiles and secure radio systems. Obviously, the guided rockets with U.S. intel for targeting purposes will allow Ukraine to service lots of worthy targets. It will allow them to do quite a bit more damage with the 4 HIMARS systems they receive than one would think when considering such a small number of launchers. And the 36,000 rounds of artillery ammunition will certainly be welcome. But I am disappointed to see we are only offering an additional 18 M777 howitzers in this package. While that is enough to equip an entire battalion and seems like a lot, realistically, Ukraine needs hundreds of new artillery pieces to even the odds with Russia. They already have plenty of 155mm ammo, what they need is more 155mm guns. I do not know what other countries may have pledged today at the NATO meeting, but why haven't we contributed any M109 self propelled howitzers? I know we have some of these in storage in addition to what is equipping our forces. While we may not be able to send many more M777 howitzers without weakening our own forces, why can't we send surplus M109's? Why can't we send the older M198 155mm towed guns? I know we've already donated some of those to other countries, but we still probably have at least several hundred in storage. Ukrainians are desperate for artillery systems. We should send them every single gun we can spare. I wonder if one challenge of providing M109's is the limited number in theater and challenge of air transport. I see a picture of a M109 fitting in a C17 but I don't know if that means you can/should do a transcontinential trip (C5's are getting pretty old but I guess that is an option). The M198 is a lot heavier than the M777 - I don't know if weight or space is the limitation when shipping by C17 if you compare one to the other (do you get much less M198's in the same load). The administration has been operating this pretty decently so there maybe some shipments by sea that were initiated previously that we won't hear about until they are in place. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:32:49 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: 100 percent! And another 10 for there navy docks in crimea! 10 rockets aren't going to do more than scratch the navy base in Sevastopol, that's a big installation. Somebody posted a satellite photo a page back or so. I was thinking what it needs is a few passes from the B52s dropping full loads. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:50:19 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: 10 rockets aren't going to do more than scratch the navy base in Sevastopol, that's a big installation. Somebody posted a satellite photo a page back or so. I was thinking what it needs is a few passes from the B52s dropping full loads. ATACMS against ships would be fun. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:56:00 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I saw an article this morn where a US intelligence agent said that Ukraine has a shit ton of switchblade drones in storage because they would rather use off the shelf drones with homemade bombs due to ease of use, sure hope that article isn't accurate and they are using what they are given with the upmost vigor Find any video of infantrymen in a firefight with small arms in just about any recent war. Right about when you start thinking to yourself "Some mortars or arty would be nice" is when the Switchblade 300 is supposed to get launched as simply another squad or platoon level weapon in that sort of engagement. They launch it, fly up, circle the area "loitering" to find the enemy and give reports on their location, as they know the enemy is nearby as the firefight is still ongoing. Except the Switchblade not only finds the bad guys in defilade, it can kill them too (especially if they make the mistake of being bunched up). Afterwards, they launch another, because the plan IIRC was to flood American infantry units with them. At that point something beneficial occurs on the tactical level for the side using them. What they are not supposed to be utilized for is WW1 style trench warfare with barely visible dismounted enemy who are often under overhead cover, inside armored vehicles, etc. Nor are they supposed to be used for general ISR purposes. Nor by soldiers who weren't at all taught how to use them and probably can't read the English instructions. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 9:59:02 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: 10 rockets aren't going to do more than scratch the navy base in Sevastopol, that's a big installation. Somebody posted a satellite photo a page back or so. I was thinking what it needs is a few passes from the B52s dropping full loads.    
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Posted: 6/15/2022 11:22:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#46]
Quote HistoryI see 1stID is on that thread trashing the ones who support Ukraine with his favorite quote "smug satisfaction". lol, that boy needs to come up with something new. I should stay out of the Hammer and sicklers threads.. 
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Posted: 6/15/2022 11:26:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: As in troops? I think if Ukraine looked like it was in danger of collapsing, maybe. Just my layman bystander's perspective. They seem to have banked alot of their national security/prosperity on a free Ukraine out from under Russia's thumb. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 11:34:43 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Excellent thread by Kamil Galeev about: a) Why the collapse of imports from sanctions makes the Ruble rise (hint: it's not a good sign that the Ruble is stronger) b) How Germany and France make beaucoup $$ building Russia's war machine and why they don't want it over/back to business as usual. c) How sanctions are crippling wide sectors of the economy: example of SKF and Timken bearing joint ventures shutting down.
Long thread, but here's a teaser. Why France is a surrender monkey: they are filling much of the demand for war supplies since 1st round of sanctions in 2014. Here's the arms-related export licenses from France to Russia, spiking hard in 2015: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/french_supply_jpg-2419574.JPG For those without Twitter / wanting an easier way to read another dank Kamil thread: Analysis of sanctions and Russias economy https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1537122850745815040.html |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 11:36:37 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I see 1stID is on that thread trashing the ones who support Ukraine with his favorite quote "smug satisfaction". lol, that boy needs to come up with something new. I should stay out of the Hammer and sicklers threads.. No, jump in and give @carmel-by-the-sea an assist here and there. I did. He's fighting the good fight. ;) |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2022 11:36:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: spydercomonkey]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I saw an article this morn where a US intelligence agent said that Ukraine has a shit ton of switchblade drones in storage because they would rather use off the shelf drones with homemade bombs due to ease of use, sure hope that article isn't accurate and they are using what they are given with the upmost vigor The DIY drones can kill vehicles and tanks with their larger gravity dropped munitions; the Switchblade 300 is a small anti personel drone, basically a flying 40mm grenade. The larger UA Octocopters also have thermal, and a longer flight time, which makes them better for hunting Orcs. They can also be re-used if no targets are found, whereas I think Switchblade cannot be reused (or at least not easily.) |
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