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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#1]
It is blazing and exploding in the Odessa region, suspects that "Shahid-136" flew in. It is reported that 2 fuel trucks allegedly exploded near Izmail in Safyan, but locals say that there were about 8 loud explosions. Most likely the blow was on the ammunition depot.
https://t.me/pridnestrovec/27310 |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:10:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I believe all the M60s are out of inventory. I think even the one from in front of our local VFW got shot up as a target on an Air Guard bombing range. It’s not like spare parts exist for them either. Let them upgrade M1A1 to the latest version and give them those. I mean lend lease them. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:14:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Su-27 Su-25 MiG-29 Su-24 Seem to be sortieing regularly. In general, are they (sorties) effective? CMOS |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: daemon734]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Seems odd, they hit it yesterday and it was not a big deal. Yesterday was the naval HQ, today was the army HQ. Both were a big deal. They've also hit between 6-12 artillery systems so far. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:20:09 PM EDT
[#5]
The old M60 tanks can actually be upgraded into some pretty potent machines. Turkey has an upgrade program based on the Israeli Sabra upgrades that takes lots of features of the Merkava MBT (to include the 120mm gun and add-on armor) to create the M60TM. With the ERA, NERA, and APS, they are actually pretty well protected. These things have taken direct hits in Syria from modern ATGMs and survived.
 I'm sure Turkey would be happy to perform such an upgrade for any M60 tanks that end up getting donated. I do not know what the turnaround time would be or their capacity per month/year, but it would be an option. I would damn sure prefer to go into battle using one of these than with a ratty old T-72. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:21:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: If you can figure out where the Russians are moving their armor to and fro, you can see patterns in that movement. If you can throw mines along that path many miles behind the front lines, you can really screw them up once they are used to traveling a formerly safe route. What a fantastic way to create havoc behind the lines. It's one thing to employ mines for a defensive perimeter to channel and delay attackers but to use them the way you describe is wonderfully mischievous. They would also assume they were being ambushed since those mines seem to fire like an RPG. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:21:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMOS: In general, are they (sorties) effective? CMOS Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMOS: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: Su-27 Su-25 MiG-29 Su-24 Seem to be sortieing regularly. In general, are they (sorties) effective? CMOS Popup raids by helicopter and (after SEAD) the frogfoots have dealt major carnage. They are just being more careful than the Russians. Let the other motherfucker die for his country, |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:32:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMOS: In general, are they (sorties) effective? CMOS Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMOS: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: Su-27 Su-25 MiG-29 Su-24 Seem to be sortieing regularly. In general, are they (sorties) effective? CMOS ISW sometimes lists the number of sorties, I think I only see them listed for the Kherson region. Here’s an example for the Sept 23 report in Kherson region. “Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported continued Ukrainian interdiction efforts against Russian positions in Kherson Oblast on September 22-23. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces conducted seven airstrikes against Russian forces and anti-aircraft assets on September 23 and conducted 99 fire missions.” Sept 22: “Ukraine’s Southern Operation Command stated that Russian forces have redeployed air defense units to Beryslav, suggesting that continued strikes are placing constant pressure on Russian positions in Kherson Oblast and necessitating increased defensive measures.” Sept 21: “Ukrainian officials reported multiple Ukrainian air and artillery strikes against Russian manpower and equipment concentration in the Berislav, Henichesk, Kakhovsk, and Kherson districts among other areas, as well as on bridges and pontoon and barge crossings.” I thought I remember seeing one that said something like 40 sorties were flown in a day, maybe it was shortly after Ukraine started using HARM. Seems like Russia is still losing anti-air systems. I am betting we will see more sorties as the war progresses. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:34:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Yesterday was the naval HQ, today was the army HQ. Both were a big deal. They've also hit between 6-12 artillery systems so far. They have been effective. Hopefully the HQ hits weren't too devastating. I would pay good money to read the mil-forum thread. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:36:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: In the end, McCarthy was right..he was always right. Tail gunner Joe really tried.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By Jozsi: We were complicit.....journalist reports were coming out about what was happening and the US press and leftist scums of the 30's covered it up.....like the Hollywood commie cock lovers of the 30's...they REFUSED TO BELIEVE IT....they just ignored it despite photos...despite dozens of witnesses. WE WERE COMPLICIT dude....FDR knew and many in the state dept. KNEW. It wasn’t so much they knew as they were in favor of it. The US State Dept. was riddled with communists during WWII. A few years later the same assholes that sold out Poland and Eastern Europe lost China to the communists too. Fuck FDR. When the VENONA boys at NSA cracked the Soviet cyphers (which, among other things proved Hiss was a Soviet spy and the Rosenbergs were guilty, they didn’t go to Truman about it because the Administration was so riddled with KGB assets they were concerned Truman would just have them….not the commies… “dealt with”. In the end, McCarthy was right..he was always right. Tail gunner Joe really tried. 
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:36:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Yesterday was the naval HQ, today was the army HQ. Both were a big deal. They've also hit between 6-12 artillery systems so far. I mean, maybe slightly bigger than when UA hit the Black Fleet HQ, but not huge. 
Today
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:38:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: I mean, maybe slightly bigger than when UA hit the Black Fleet HQ, but not huge. The singular target isn't what made this a big deal. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:40:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: The singular target isn't what made this a big deal. Okay, feel free to explain, because even Russian TG is not that excited about this. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:41:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Its a screenshot I was sent. I typically only post in the other milforum Ukraine thread versus this one, just dropped it in here. Feel free to do some fact checking, although I assure you it's real. I’m gathering you have a source in official channels. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:45:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I’m gathering you have a source in official channels. I lots of sources in official channels, which is why I don't post much here. It's too much trouble to separate the info, and then nothing is ever enough. I have several of these Iranian craft in my possession right now though, and I can assure you they are significant additions to this conflict. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:46:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: The singular target isn't what made this a big deal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Originally Posted By Prime: I mean, maybe slightly bigger than when UA hit the Black Fleet HQ, but not huge. The singular target isn't what made this a big deal. Guessing either senior Ukrainians or American advisors. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:46:32 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:47:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: I lots of sources in official channels, which is why I don't post much here. It's too much trouble to separate the info, and then nothing is ever enough. I have several of these Iranian craft in my possession right now though, and I can assure you they are significant additions to this conflict. I’m sure they are. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:49:48 PM EDT
[#19]
NSFW:
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:50:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Video of today's impact in Odesa
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:52:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: theskuh]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: I lots of sources in official channels, which is why I don't post much here. It's too much trouble to separate the info, and then nothing is ever enough. I have several of these Iranian craft in my possession right now though, and I can assure you they are significant additions to this conflict. Hopefully we can get some sort of meaningful countermeasures deployed. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:55:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Guessing either senior Ukrainians or American advisors. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By daemon734: Originally Posted By Prime: I mean, maybe slightly bigger than when UA hit the Black Fleet HQ, but not huge. The singular target isn't what made this a big deal. Guessing either senior Ukrainians or American advisors. What range do those things have and how did they make it to Odessa? |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:55:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: If true, wow.
The ultimate act of desperation if true. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 4:58:47 PM EDT
[#24]
These Iranian drones are a problem. They are demonstrating a capability to hit high value targets (such as HQ buildings) with accuracy. It is probably also only a matter of time until one of these Iranian hunter-killer drones manages to take out an M270 MLRS or M142 HIMARS system. These things need to be dealt with, quickly.
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:00:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: These Iranian drones are a problem. They are demonstrating a capability to hit high value targets (such as HQ buildings) with accuracy. It is probably also only a matter of time until one of these Iranian hunter-killer drones manages to take out an M270 MLRS or M142 HIMARS system. These things need to be dealt with, quickly. NASAMS were originally going to take longer to get here. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:00:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By torstin: What range do those things have and how did they make it to Odessa? Claimed range of 2000km. It’s like a slower, cheaper cruise missile, ideal for countries where slower is a good trade for cheaper. Daemon knows more but likely can’t say anything. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:00:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/45449/signal-2022-09-25-13-49-20-173_jpg-2539124.JPG Fuck |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:00:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4xGM300m]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I’m sure they are. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By daemon734: I lots of sources in official channels, which is why I don't post much here. It's too much trouble to separate the info, and then nothing is ever enough. I have several of these Iranian craft in my possession right now though, and I can assure you they are significant additions to this conflict. I’m sure they are. Any information about the cost and payload of these drones? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:01:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GrayGhost15: I can only add a small piece to this, but I know a significant portion of that was Mennonite Missionaries who moved there to help with agriculture and minister. They were disappeared. I don’t anyone would think of Mennonites as hardcore commies. I guess back then, no one really knew what communism and the Soviet system were or how evil. It sounded good but underneath that veneer, its a ruthless criminal enterprise. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:02:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Every pig for himself. I don't know if it is lack of morals, lack of values, Ain't no comrade ship for sure. something is lacking there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By weptek911: I’m always amazed at how Orcs DO NOTHING for their wounded comrades after they get dunked on like this. It’s every man for himself. Every pig for himself. I don't know if it is lack of morals, lack of values, Ain't no comrade ship for sure. something is lacking there. What's lacking is humanity as shown also by rape, and torture. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:02:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: These Iranian drones are a problem. They are demonstrating a capability to hit high value targets (such as HQ buildings) with accuracy. It is probably also only a matter of time until one of these Iranian hunter-killer drones manages to take out an M270 MLRS or M142 HIMARS system. These things need to be dealt with, quickly. I've thought for a minute that the Iranian drones would be Russia's counter to the HIMARS and M270s. I know that Ukraine is probably guarding them very heavily with air defense systems and is certainly heavily using decoys, but like you, I think it's only a matter of time until they get one. It's unfortunate, and is one of many reasons I hope the regime in Iran collapses yesterday. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:02:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: I lots of sources in official channels, which is why I don't post much here. It's too much trouble to separate the info, and then nothing is ever enough. I have several of these Iranian craft in my possession right now though, and I can assure you they are significant additions to this conflict. Would you say that at this point that at this point they have to rely on a “golden BB” hit to counter them, or is it not quite that bad? |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:04:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Any information about the cost and payload of these drones? I have google and Daemon has the drones and a scale but neither of us can tell you. 
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:08:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I’m sure they are. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By daemon734: I lots of sources in official channels, which is why I don't post much here. It's too much trouble to separate the info, and then nothing is ever enough. I have several of these Iranian craft in my possession right now though, and I can assure you they are significant additions to this conflict. I’m sure they are. Besides range, what is unique about these drones that make them so fearsome? Actually stealth? I am unclear why they are leaking through AD - and I thought they were not. Or are they just hitting very soft spots in Ukr AD? |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:09:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: daemon734]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Claimed range of 2000km. It’s like a slower, cheaper cruise missile, ideal for countries where slower is a good trade for cheaper. Daemon knows more but likely can’t say anything. What I can say is they are adding depth to an already tenuous air defense problem. UKR will end up being forced to waste valuable resources on these. They are also incredibly hard to detect considering they operate in a very different manner than jets or TBMs, its hard to look for both with limited assets. The 136 is only one of a half dozen platforms given to Russia but it was based on the Israeli Harop and Harpy. I suggest one looks into those for specific features that may prove to be unique so far. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:09:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#36]
Entire Russian frontier will be closed on or by 28 September. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:14:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Ukraine probably needs to think about WW2-era air defense for countering drones, spotters, and aa guns or similar. These things are slow but insidiously small. But with enough eyeballs and optics, they might be able to stop enough of them.
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:14:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thehun06]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: These Iranian drones are a problem. They are demonstrating a capability to hit high value targets (such as HQ buildings) with accuracy. It is probably also only a matter of time until one of these Iranian hunter-killer drones manages to take out an M270 MLRS or M142 HIMARS system. These things need to be dealt with, quickly. How the heck does UA not have AD systems perfected around Odessa...I mean...seriously... |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:18:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lightning_P38]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: How the heck does UA doesn't have AD systems perfected around Odessa...I mean...seriously... ETA: Don't we have a shit ton of Hawks in storage somewhere? |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:20:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: How the heck does UA not have AD systems perfected around Odessa...I mean...seriously... That’s been their problem since day 1. It stinks. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:21:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SoCalExile]
[#41]
A good thread:
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:21:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: How the heck does UA not have AD systems perfected around Odessa...I mean...seriously... Limited resources so they have to make hard compromises. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:22:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: These Iranian drones are a problem. They are demonstrating a capability to hit high value targets (such as HQ buildings) with accuracy. It is probably also only a matter of time until one of these Iranian hunter-killer drones manages to take out an M270 MLRS or M142 HIMARS system. These things need to be dealt with, quickly. I figured the russians would adapt eventually. Here we are. They bought something that works better in this environment. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:26:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: The old M60 tanks can actually be upgraded into some pretty potent machines. Turkey has an upgrade program based on the Israeli Sabra upgrades that takes lots of features of the Merkava MBT (to include the 120mm gun and add-on armor) to create the M60TM. With the ERA, NERA, and APS, they are actually pretty well protected. These things have taken direct hits in Syria from modern ATGMs and survived. https://i.imgur.com/747RDnZ.jpg I'm sure Turkey would be happy to perform such an upgrade for any M60 tanks that end up getting donated. I do not know what the turnaround time would be or their capacity per month/year, but it would be an option. I would damn sure prefer to go into battle using one of these than with a ratty old T-72. Yes those are fairly good options. Picture of ATGM hit:   Still, if we're going through the trouble of modifying M60s we can just get Germany to donate Leopard 2s. They're better out of the box and can be upgraded as well. But would probably fare better as is if needed to be rushed into service. Turkey, Singapore and Poland are some manufactures that make add on armor and other upgrades. I'm sure Poland would be willing to help. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:26:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: daemon734]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alphascout: Ukraine probably needs to think about WW2-era air defense for countering drones, spotters, and aa guns or similar. These things are slow but insidiously small. But with enough eyeballs and optics, they might be able to stop enough of them. The 131 is 300lbs, the 136 is 500lbs. Easily big enough to cause major damage but small enough to be hard to see in the air.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:26:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#46]
Likely suicide bomber in Melitopol.
In the center of Melitopol, a car was blown up https://ria.ru/20220925/melitopol-1819358604.html SIMFEROPOL, Sep 25 — RIA Novosti. In Melitopol, a car was blown up, at least one person was killed, said the chairman of the movement "We are together with Russia", a member of the main council of the administration of the Zaporozhye region Vladimir Rogov. "According to preliminary information, the explosion occurred in the area of Lomonosov Street. Now the law enforcement agencies went to the site to conduct investigative measures. The car was blown up. It was torn into two parts by a large charge of explosives," he said. The authorities reported on the strengthening of security measures in Melitopol due to the provocations of the Kiev regime. On Sunday morning, explosions were also reported in the city. On the eve of the Ukrainian saboteurs tried to blow up the transformer substation in the area of the aviation town. The explosion of an improvised bomb led to a fire, which the station workers extinguished on their own. No one was injured. More video from the spot💥 2 cars pre-lit https://t.me/riamelitopol/70104 In Melitopol, a Ukrainian saboteur died in a car explosion, the military-civilian administration of the city reported. https://t.me/tass_agency In Melitopol, due to provocations of the Kiev regime, security measures will be strengthened https://ria.ru/20220925/melitopol-1819371661.html SIMFEROPOL, Sep 25 – RIA Novosti. In Melitopol, Zaporizhia region, due to the provocations of the Kiev regime, additional security measures will be taken, Reported head of the city administration Galina Danilchenko. Earlier it was reported that a car was blown up in Melitopol. "Residents of the city are actively taking part in the voting, but the Kiev regime does not abandon all sorts of provocations in order to prevent us from holding a referendum. But we all know that there will be a referendum. We will definitely take additional security measures," Danilchenko wrote in her Telegram channel. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:27:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: What I can say is they are adding depth to an already tenuous air defense problem. UKR will end up being forced to waste valuable resources on these. They are also incredibly hard to detect considering they operate in a very different manner than jets or TBMs, its hard to look for both with limited assets. The 136 is only one of a half dozen platforms given to Russia but it was based on the Israeli Harop and Harpy. I suggest one looks into those for specific features that may prove to be unique so far. Radiation seeking? |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:29:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Grendelsbane]
[#48]
It will be interesting to see how the Vampire proximity fused APKWS system fares against these Iranian drones.
Posted awhile back - https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/what-the-vampire-weapon-system-the-u-s-is-sending-to-ukraine-can-actually-do |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:31:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: A good thread:
Thank you for posting that. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:31:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: good read, thnx Q. Could those art delivered mines have just "disabled" scores of tanks by, for instance, detracking them? Even if only temporarily, it necessitates parts and repair support, right? thnx again Generally speaking, yes. There are smart mines that have been around a while and worth their weight in gold, or more, (google the M93 hornet) which use high speed tech to hear the tank, jump in the sky, and punch a slug through the roof. There are also cheaper mines that are basically a hockey puck of explosives that weigh a few pounds. I would suspect given everything we know, like the 4th Guards Tank Division just abandoning functional tanks, that a small AT mine that bends a bogie wheel and breaks track would probably get abandoned, vice repaired. Clearly, given the precision of friendly artillery, and I think this was mentioned, Id say if you fire a round or two at road junctions that the Russians are using, say at midnight, I have no doubt you'll knock out a lot of vehicles. Id think they would be murder on supply convoys, as any competent combat arm formation should stay off roads, but you never know. People forget that before 9/11, conventional tactics were engineers in the front of formations to breach traditional minefields. (like in 'engagement areas')and artillery delivered mines are really tough to work against. The route clearance patrols and engineer counter-IED stuff took years to develop and I don't think the Russians had the money or inclination. Driving around in the dark in a supply truck or BMP and running over a scatterable mine behind your own lines is a pain the ass, and some of the tech being dusted off and employed is something to see. When it gets muddy, and off roading gets harder, the effectiveness of these goodies will go up. I would not be surprised if they are very effective and just not getting publicized. |
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