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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:25:14 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... I remember back in the Kharkiv offensive, thinking, man, the Ukes are really putting it to them, they must be killing thousands. But the official numbers never got that high, maybe the 6-700 range. I had the same thought on this Kherson run. We're hearing that it's a total rout, there are 20k RF soldiers with no chance of escape, they're getting slaughtered by arty. Then the numbers come in and it's 7-800 a day. I'm sorry, but it's a colossal failure that they let that many enemy soldiers escape across a river without cutting them a whole lot deeper than they did. Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. It's tricky; the Ukrainians are trying liberate friendly territory, and the Russians have no qualms about using civilian infrastructure as human shield. I think that factor has a lot to do with it. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:27:30 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blue_Devil_JD: In Euro? Poland. I would also argue Turkey would have had a better initial response to Russia invasion, but maybe not long term. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blue_Devil_JD: Originally Posted By BlackHoleSon: Who is a country that surprisingly has their shit together that tends to fly under the radar? In Euro? Poland. I would also argue Turkey would have had a better initial response to Russia invasion, but maybe not long term. I'm no fan of the Turks, but they have a real military and aren't afraid to throw down. After Britain and France, they are probably the most formidable NATO member. Pretty sure they're the only NATO country to have shot down a Russian jet since Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:27:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: GTLandser]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Man, please ease up on the acronyms. I have no idea what you just tried to say. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By DASJUDEN: As much as I'd like to think the Army will recognize the utility of SFABs I just don't see it happening. Most of our training of the Ukrainians at least during prewar (I came home in January) wasn't being conducted by the SFABs, hell I'm a CAB guy and I was training them along with ABCT and IBCT guys. I don't think the Army has figured out just exactly what to do with the SFAB concept or that they have the desire to do so and with the shift from COIN to LSCO I can see it very easily getting overlooked. Man, please ease up on the acronyms. I have no idea what you just tried to say. SFAB: Security Forces Assistance Brigade ABCT: Armored Brigade Combat Team IBCT: Infantry - - - CAB: Combined Arms Battalion (mixed companies of Abrams and Bradleys) LSCO: Large Scale Combat Operations (major war) ETA: DANG, missed it by [that] much!  And yes, confusingly, CAB acronym for Aviation, too.
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:29:27 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DPeacher: This! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DPeacher: Originally Posted By gatetraveller: Originally Posted By toaster: Originally Posted By HDLS: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2022-11-12_at_9_08_50_AM-2597502.png
 This is exactly the kind of thing that made me want to punch all of the so called Republicans who decry supporting Ukraine in the face. That and all the dead children. It's not fake, I don't give a Shit how corrupt you think the Ukrainian government is. These people are suffering at the hands of the Russians and deserve any help that we can give! This! Indeed Prolly the same who believe their own government is totally above board. All that moralistic Christian values crap is pure Rooskie propaganda. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:29:46 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: All the work I did training with the guys in the Baltic states left me with mixed feelings. The hearts there, the equipment and sheer numbers aren't. To put it in perspective I've seen the entire Estonian airforce and it consists of less than 10 airframes. Thankfully they're aware of their limitations and know that they'd probably get rolled over fairly quickly and have planned accordingly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Originally Posted By BlackHoleSon: Those two kind of pop in my head already as being pretty solid. I guess I was thinking of countries that don't really have a strong military but culturally seemed like they have their heads screwed on and are able to learn shit pretty quick, just don't have huge capabilities. Estonians maybe? All the work I did training with the guys in the Baltic states left me with mixed feelings. The hearts there, the equipment and sheer numbers aren't. To put it in perspective I've seen the entire Estonian airforce and it consists of less than 10 airframes. Thankfully they're aware of their limitations and know that they'd probably get rolled over fairly quickly and have planned accordingly. 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:29:53 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: SFAB: Security Forces Assistance Brigade ABCT: Armored Brigade Combat Team IBCT: Infantry - - - CAB: Combined Arms Battalion (mixed companies of Abrams and Bradleys) LSCO: Large Scale Combat Operations (major war) Nice try on the CAB but no cigar. It's Combat Aviation Brigade. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:32:30 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Nice try on the CAB but no cigar. It's Combat Aviation Brigade. Yes, but not only. 😘 |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:34:48 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: It's tricky; the Ukrainians are trying liberate friendly territory, and the Russians have no qualms about using civilian infrastructure as human shield. I think that factor has a lot to do with it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... I remember back in the Kharkiv offensive, thinking, man, the Ukes are really putting it to them, they must be killing thousands. But the official numbers never got that high, maybe the 6-700 range. I had the same thought on this Kherson run. We're hearing that it's a total rout, there are 20k RF soldiers with no chance of escape, they're getting slaughtered by arty. Then the numbers come in and it's 7-800 a day. I'm sorry, but it's a colossal failure that they let that many enemy soldiers escape across a river without cutting them a whole lot deeper than they did. Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. It's tricky; the Ukrainians are trying liberate friendly territory, and the Russians have no qualms about using civilian infrastructure as human shield. I think that factor has a lot to do with it. Yea, plus there were reports for weeks that Russian units were withdrawing from the area, along with civilians which would have made it very bad optics for Ukraine to strike. Other reports said Russians were willing to fight in the city, and that never happened. I'm guessing a few pockets were caught the other night without civilians to complicate things and that's why we had artillery hitting their retreat. Over 2 days the total comes to around 1,500 dead. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:34:52 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Sorry I'm 2 months into a 4 month stay with Training and Doctrine Command. . Man, I hope you'll be OK after that.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:40:46 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: This is exactly the kind of thing that made me want to punch all of the so called Republicans who decry supporting Ukraine in the face. That and all the dead children. It's not fake, I don't give a Shit how corrupt you think the Ukrainian government is. These people are suffering at the hands of the Russians and deserve any help that we can give! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: Originally Posted By toaster: Originally Posted By HDLS: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2022-11-12_at_9_08_50_AM-2597502.png
This is exactly the kind of thing that made me want to punch all of the so called Republicans who decry supporting Ukraine in the face. That and all the dead children. It's not fake, I don't give a Shit how corrupt you think the Ukrainian government is. These people are suffering at the hands of the Russians and deserve any help that we can give! Thats one of those talking points on the Right I just dont get. Ukraine could be a bunch of snake worshiping cannibals wasting half our foreign aid on decorative glass beads and crack, and I'd still support them because they are killing 100k Russian Soldiers a year. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:47:24 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: Thanks. It seems weird it is reported on so little. Most of what I find on twitter is clearly Russian propaganda and usually in Spanish for some reason. I’m sure there has been stuff posted here since but the last thing I remember was the S-300 complex getting hit in early July. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: Originally Posted By Prime: Not a lot of news comes out of there. It was quiet for a while, Donetsk gets all the attention. It's not great, I'm sure. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/Luhansk_PNG-2597208.png Thanks. It seems weird it is reported on so little. Most of what I find on twitter is clearly Russian propaganda and usually in Spanish for some reason. I’m sure there has been stuff posted here since but the last thing I remember was the S-300 complex getting hit in early July. The Spanish connection is real; I have noticed that too. My guess is Marxism has deep roots in Spain, and the Spanish communists were always supported by Russia. The Spanish communists were particularly international, since many fled after the Marxist/anarchist coalition lost the 1936 civil war. No doubt some of them returned to Spain in the decades that followed, particularly after the fall of the Franco government, and almost complete decline of his Falangist party. There are also Marxists scattered all over Latin America, and my guess is they are siding with Putin. There is (or was) at least one Spanish group fighting alongside the supposed LPR “separatists,” after 2014. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:49:05 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: There is still plenty of support for Putin among the young and old. The last lady seems to have her head screwed on straight. There is an actual brain in there not just a pretty face.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnWIxpneDb8That guy is doing important work and 1420 is always a worthwhile watch. You get serious insight and bonkers comedy in the same video! I do, sincerely, feel for the reasonable people inside Russia. Their future is diminishing. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:50:10 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Thats one of those talking points on the Right I just dont get. Ukraine could be a bunch of snake worshiping cannibals wasting half our foreign aid on decorative glass beads and crack, and I'd still support them because they are killing 100k Russian Soldiers a year. I would probably draw the line at the Palestinians and the Taliban, but the Tali’s are pretty well armed now anyways |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:50:12 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definitely saving that one lol. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: https://i.redd.it/cn72iafd9jz91.png Definitely saving that one lol. I thought of your covid season/riot season avatar when I stumbled across it 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:50:21 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triode: 3000 pages; it is sad to see all the unecessary death and destruction as well as human suffering. For humanity's sake, let's hope this thread does not make it to 4000. Well said. I’m going into my third year of supporting Ukraine. I started after learning we helped talk them into giving up their nuclear weapons and just knew the democrats would try to hang them out to dry if Russia ever went in full scale. That it’s my own party doing it… |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:51:40 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLurker:
Good thread here. Mobilization is going to be increasingly hard as word gets back home. Threadreader unroll of that thread to make it easier to read / bypass twitter for those without it. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1591488510804262912.html |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:53:35 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope: Man, I hope you'll be OK after that. I've spent the majority of the year at Ft. Rucker with brief interludes where I get to go home. I have the misfortune of technically being a field grade officer that when showing up to a new unit forgot the cardinal rule of "Don't be the best whore in the whorehouse. You'll just get fucked more." As a result my leadership decided to send me to ALL OF THE SCHOOLS. Let's go over the 2022 course schedule for DASJUDEN. Instructor pilot course? Check. Air Cavalry Leaders Course? Check. Aviation Warrant Officer Advanced Course? Check. Aviation Mission Survivability Officer Course? Check. Need somebody to proof the new Aviation Weapons and Tactics Instructor course? Check. On the plus side I've got all the insider info on what's going on at least on the aviation side in Ukraine and I've gotten to see and try out some neat new tech that we're developing. Just gotta make it through another 2 months without getting the TRADOC lobotomy and we're home free... For now. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:01:30 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: I've spent the majority of the year at Ft. Rucker with brief interludes where I get to go home. I have the misfortune of technically being a field grade officer that when showing up to a new unit forgot the cardinal rule of "Don't be the best whore in the whorehouse. You'll just get fucked more." As a result my leadership decided to send me to ALL OF THE SCHOOLS. Let's go over the 2022 course schedule for DASJUDEN. Instructor pilot course? Check. Air Cavalry Leaders Course? Check. Aviation Warrant Officer Advanced Course? Check. Aviation Mission Survivability Officer Course? Check. Need somebody to proof the new Aviation Weapons and Tactics Instructor course? Check. On the plus side I've got all the insider info on what's going on at least on the aviation side in Ukraine and I've gotten to see and try out some neat new tech that we're developing. Just gotta make it through another 2 months without getting the TRADOC lobotomy and we're home free... For now. But can you quote the "Noble Vision"?  |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:02:09 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... I remember back in the Kharkiv offensive, thinking, man, the Ukes are really putting it to them, they must be killing thousands. But the official numbers never got that high, maybe the 6-700 range. I had the same thought on this Kherson run. We're hearing that it's a total rout, there are 20k RF soldiers with no chance of escape, they're getting slaughtered by arty. Then the numbers come in and it's 7-800 a day. I'm sorry, but it's a colossal failure that they let that many enemy soldiers escape across a river without cutting them a whole lot deeper than they did. Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. First I think it’s important to appreciate that the troop density is not at WWI/WW2 levels. Second, regarding Kharkiv, it was a thinly held region of the front which is why the UA attacked there. Third, the UA has shown every indication in its offensives that it plays it safe, which IMO is absolutely right. The first goal of the weaker power in an asymmetric war is to not lose. Ukraine isn’t going to take high-risk/high-reward chances. They don’t need to. Therefore if the Russians drop their shit and run, as at Kharkiv and Lyman, the UA probably isn’t going to catch them. This is speculation on my part but IMO it’s entirely possible there was an “agreement” over Russian withdrawal from Kherson. Russia agrees to not make it any more costly for Ukraine that it’s already been, not to wreck the city, and Ukraine agrees not to fuck with their withdrawal too much. It’s a win-win although it’s a far bigger strategic win for Ukraine. Neither side can admit to that but I can absolutely see it happening. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:06:48 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: There is still plenty of support for Putin among the young and old. The last lady seems to have her head screwed on straight. There is an actual brain in there not just a pretty face. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnWIxpneDb8I hope they don't send the ginger at the end to the gulag. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:08:27 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: I've spent the majority of the year at Ft. Rucker with brief interludes where I get to go home. I have the misfortune of technically being a field grade officer that when showing up to a new unit forgot the cardinal rule of "Don't be the best whore in the whorehouse. You'll just get fucked more." As a result my leadership decided to send me to ALL OF THE SCHOOLS. Let's go over the 2022 course schedule for DASJUDEN. Instructor pilot course? Check. Air Cavalry Leaders Course? Check. Aviation Warrant Officer Advanced Course? Check. Aviation Mission Survivability Officer Course? Check. Need somebody to proof the new Aviation Weapons and Tactics Instructor course? Check. On the plus side I've got all the insider info on what's going on at least on the aviation side in Ukraine and I've gotten to see and try out some neat new tech that we're developing. Just gotta make it through another 2 months without getting the TRADOC lobotomy and we're home free... For now. Yeah, but think of all those bullets for your OER.
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:12:38 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: But can you quote the "Noble Vision"? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/boyd15-2597791.jpg Bringing COL Boyd into play when I'm an Apache pilot is just low. You know damn well I'm only capable of conceptualizing how to kill things and coming up with more efficient ways to do it! I can't think on the strategic level! I've studied his writings but putting his concepts into practical application is done at a bit higher level than where I'm currently at. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:13:06 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. Too busy advooncing to get accurate tally of vatnik corpses. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:16:26 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Bringing COL Boyd into play when I'm an Apache pilot is just low. You know damn well I'm only capable of conceptualizing how to kill things and coming up with more efficient ways to do it! I can't think on the strategic level! I've studied his writings but putting his concepts into practical application is done at a bit higher level than where I'm currently at. cunningly spoken (A+ grade) 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:16:48 PM EST
[#25]
 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:24:46 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some of you guys were having trouble viewing the epic Stugna ambush, you can try these links.
Reddit here https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/yteagw/special_unit_omega_of_the_ukrainian_national/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb Lordie what a slaughter. Thanks for those links. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:25:38 PM EST
[#27]
Does anyone have a link to the strategic updates that sometimes get posted and talk about all aspects of the war?
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:28:31 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Man, please ease up on the acronyms. I have no idea what you just tried to say. People that use specific acronyms have no desire to communicate to a wider audience. They only want to communicate to those in the narrow group that know and understand the acronyms. So don't worry, he had no interest in communicating with us. Move along, nothing to see here. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:29:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcooper: Does anyone have a link to the strategic updates that sometimes get posted and talk about all aspects of the war? https://www.understandingwar.org/ @mcooper |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:31:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#30]
Did not miss the opportunity, right now.
 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:32:42 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... I remember back in the Kharkiv offensive, thinking, man, the Ukes are really putting it to them, they must be killing thousands. But the official numbers never got that high, maybe the 6-700 range. I had the same thought on this Kherson run. We're hearing that it's a total rout, there are 20k RF soldiers with no chance of escape, they're getting slaughtered by arty. Then the numbers come in and it's 7-800 a day. I'm sorry, but it's a colossal failure that they let that many enemy soldiers escape across a river without cutting them a whole lot deeper than they did. Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. No reason for flames, and it's an interesting question. Could be lots of surrenders? Could be Ukraine being conservative in estimates? Could be Ukraine really has no idea how many they're killing? |
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NZL
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:36:52 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: From further down in that thread, some comments from a Russian soldier during the First Chechen War. Anything sound familiar? — Dr. Wu Clan Tang, Esq. (@Wuclantang1) November 12, 2022 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: Originally Posted By TheLurker:
Good thread here. Mobilization is going to be increasingly hard as word gets back home. From further down in that thread, some comments from a Russian soldier during the First Chechen War. Anything sound familiar? — Dr. Wu Clan Tang, Esq. (@Wuclantang1) November 12, 2022 Sounds like orcs are very slow learners
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:38:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#33]
from the whirly bird perspective - what have we learned from seeing a legit SAM environment?
For the pilots out there, do you guys practice the low flying we see in the videos? It makes me wonder what a conflict in the 80's over Germany would have looked like. ETA: always loved this photo from a reforger excercsie. 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:39:30 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: People that use specific acronyms have no desire to communicate to a wider audience. They only want to communicate to those in the narrow group that know and understand the acronyms. So don't worry, he had no interest in communicating with us. Move along, nothing to see here. Or it could be that in a thread about an ongoing war and discussing topics like military strategy the person using the acronym might expect just a basic level of common knowledge. I see now that was a mistake. I'll make sure to break it down Barney style for you in the future. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:39:50 PM EST
[#35]
Since the offensive I keep thinking,
“Man, it would be interesting to hear from a Russian Army Field hospital what it’s like with the flow of wounded.” I can’t even imagine day after day, month after month of wounded flooding in. Has to be taxing on the medical personnel |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:41:08 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: It's not fake, I don't give a Shit how corrupt you think the Ukrainian government is. These people are suffering at the hands of the Russians and deserve any help that we can give! ANY American that wants to withhold support for Ukraine for reasons of "corrupt government" better take another hard look at our own f**king swamp . . . . CMOS |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:41:22 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: No reason for flames, and it's an interesting question. Could be lots of surrenders? Could be Ukraine being conservative in estimates? Could be Ukraine really has no idea how many they're killing? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... I remember back in the Kharkiv offensive, thinking, man, the Ukes are really putting it to them, they must be killing thousands. But the official numbers never got that high, maybe the 6-700 range. I had the same thought on this Kherson run. We're hearing that it's a total rout, there are 20k RF soldiers with no chance of escape, they're getting slaughtered by arty. Then the numbers come in and it's 7-800 a day. I'm sorry, but it's a colossal failure that they let that many enemy soldiers escape across a river without cutting them a whole lot deeper than they did. Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. No reason for flames, and it's an interesting question. Could be lots of surrenders? Could be Ukraine being conservative in estimates? Could be Ukraine really has no idea how many they're killing? I'm impressed they more than doubled the average for the past two weeks from 300/day to a around 715/day. I've also wondered how you take an accurate count when we have seen reports of buildings being taken down that housed soldiers. I really don't expect them to stop and try to count. Also as you mentioned is prisoner numbers that aren't being released. There are some they are probably still looking for in the city itself, or washed ashore downstream. What matters is they are pushing them back much faster than Russia was advancing the past few months. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:42:13 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: No reason for flames, and it's an interesting question. Could be lots of surrenders? Could be Ukraine being conservative in estimates? Could be Ukraine really has no idea how many they're killing? Could also be precise targeting data was lacking and they didn't want to kill civilians with inaccurate fire. I do agree though, I was expecting several times more dead rus than 810. |
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NZL
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:43:07 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but... I remember back in the Kharkiv offensive, thinking, man, the Ukes are really putting it to them, they must be killing thousands. But the official numbers never got that high, maybe the 6-700 range. I had the same thought on this Kherson run. We're hearing that it's a total rout, there are 20k RF soldiers with no chance of escape, they're getting slaughtered by arty. Then the numbers come in and it's 7-800 a day. I'm sorry, but it's a colossal failure that they let that many enemy soldiers escape across a river without cutting them a whole lot deeper than they did. Either there is a whole lot of wishful thinking going on with the major twitter guys referenced in this thread, or UA is barely muddling through. This is twice now that everyone is declaring a rout, and the official numbers are up 2-% from an average day. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're advancing, but this just doesn't add up. Either there were a lot less RF forces on the right bank than we were told, or UA did a poor job of roughing them up on their way out. Those guys are going to be a LOT harder to deal with on the left bank than they were on the right. Likely that limited long range arty, limited equipment, and limited ammo is a constant consideration. Except for the US, no one can mass enough force to smash an enemy on the scale you're thinking. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:43:45 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: Yes, but not only. 😘 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: Originally Posted By DASJUDEN: Nice try on the CAB but no cigar. It's Combat Aviation Brigade. Yes, but not only. 😘 GT is correct |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:46:30 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: from the whirly bird perspective - what have we learned from seeing a legit SAM environment? For the pilots out there, do you guys practice the low flying we see in the videos? It makes me wonder what a conflict in the 80's over Germany would have looked like. From the attack side of the house we train to fly lower than what you're typically seeing come out in the videos and we're doing it at night. Broad strokes, the days of doing 3K orbits at 2000ft around your supported ground force like what we did in Iraq or Afghanistan are over. There's a lot of stuff on the tactics side of the house that we're currently working through. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:48:41 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: GT is correct It's both. It's the context that matters. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:53:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#43]
Copium: Russian YouTube propagandist: Russia has not yet used it arsenal
Don't cliick on this American hating US immigrant - Russia has been showing human kindness not attacking civillian targets. - Russia is fighting NATO alone. - Aid from Iran not proven becuase Russia and Iran say didn't. - Lots of conventional weapons being held back, everything has it's timne. - Russia shaping the future world order. Russia showed it can withstand the US/West - BRICS stronk. South America, Asia, Africa will side with Russia. All countries that count wil side with Russia. - The world loves Russia and hates America |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:55:03 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: From the attack side of the house we train to fly lower than what you're typically seeing come out in the videos and we're doing it at night. Broad strokes, the days of doing 3K orbits at 2000ft around your supported ground force like what we did in Iraq or Afghanistan are over. There's a lot of stuff on the tactics side of the house that we're currently working through. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: from the whirly bird perspective - what have we learned from seeing a legit SAM environment? For the pilots out there, do you guys practice the low flying we see in the videos? It makes me wonder what a conflict in the 80's over Germany would have looked like. From the attack side of the house we train to fly lower than what you're typically seeing come out in the videos and we're doing it at night. Broad strokes, the days of doing 3K orbits at 2000ft around your supported ground force like what we did in Iraq or Afghanistan are over. There's a lot of stuff on the tactics side of the house that we're currently working through. ty! |
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NZL
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:57:38 PM EST
[#45]
Attack heli captured/recaptured
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:00:04 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Just my opinion, but I have no doubt Ukraine is going to do some offensive in the winter. Agreed. They have momentum, and confidence. They will use those and advance. CMOS |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:02:29 PM EST
[#47]
1 hr ago.
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:03:07 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Erno86: There is always Che Guevara's book on Guerrilla Warfare. Nopity nope. Guevera was an idiot. Mao was the guy that said basically, set up shadow government, do propaganda, set the ground conditions, create hate and discontent, the population are the ocean, insurgent is fish. Mao was a Chinese communist who understood patience and condition setting. Guevera was a hothead who wasnt to analytical who basically said the people are ready to revolt, show up with some pipe hitters, kill some dudes, get some headlines, and they will see the opportunity and rally to your cause. Dead wrong. It was the foco concept. Actually read the book...it is an incomprehensible mess. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:04:30 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Could also be precise targeting data was lacking and they didn't want to kill civilians with inaccurate fire. I do agree though, I was expecting several times more dead rus than 810. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: No reason for flames, and it's an interesting question. Could be lots of surrenders? Could be Ukraine being conservative in estimates? Could be Ukraine really has no idea how many they're killing? Could also be precise targeting data was lacking and they didn't want to kill civilians with inaccurate fire. I do agree though, I was expecting several times more dead rus than 810. I would think these body/tank/uav/washing machine counts take a couple days to compile. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:06:49 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Or it could be that in a thread about an ongoing war and discussing topics like military strategy the person using the acronym might expect just a basic level of common knowledge. I see now that was a mistake. I'll make sure to break it down Barney style for you in the future. Dude you don't come across like that at all. You answer a ton of questions. |
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