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Posted: 6/14/2023 5:21:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: That is how most of Russia looks like outside of bigger cities. It’s a crap hole. Conscripts come from the poorest regions … most are malnourished. People in the US are soo lucky and have no idea what it's like elsewhere. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 5:25:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Mike]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Excellent article on the Holodomor. Starvation in Europes bread basket. Nothing has changed. Anyone expecting Russia to change after a defeat is sorely mistaken. Their entire history is the oppression and demeaning of life. Lots of pictures and details. https://kyivindependent.com/holodomor-soviet-unions-man-made-famine-in-ukraine/ The Russians did it to themselves a decade before with the first round of farm collectivation resulting in the great famine of 1921. This is a picture of a Russian boy in Ukraine Ilarion Nyshchenko who was arrested for killing and eating his 3yo brother. No record of the disposition of his case.  This might be a society beyond fixing. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 5:33:01 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/14/2023 5:37:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Rearranging minefields is a fun game to the brave and crazy. Wouldn't be the first time in history. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 5:40:39 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 6/14/2023 5:45:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jozsi]
[#6]
 Attached FileQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: What good to NATO is Hungarian defense spending if they are hostile to other NATO members? Do you really think Hungary is coming to ANYONE’S aid?  The blocked Finland and Sweden entry. They repeatedly blocked aid to Ukraine. NATO is a MUTUAL defense alliance not a loner shopping mall. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By strykr: So we tell Hungary to get serious about NATO and now that they try to increase their defense spending we punish them for it? Seems dumb to me as it undermines NATO. We sell weapons to every Middle Eastern dictator but refuse to sell them to a NATO member? It will drive Hungary further away from the US as they question whether Article 5 even applies to them. It may just be that they are not aligned with us, and should take their chances with being invaded by Russia (again) on their own. Lot of BS coming from them last little while. Is this not a step in the right direction? What should Hungary do to better align with NATO goals? Is higher defense spending not what we would like to see? Making them feel like they are on their own will make them even more cautious and less likely to stand up against Russia. What good to NATO is Hungarian defense spending if they are hostile to other NATO members? Do you really think Hungary is coming to ANYONE’S aid? The blocked Finland and Sweden entry. They repeatedly blocked aid to Ukraine. NATO is a MUTUAL defense alliance not a loner shopping mall. It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants.  Attached File Attached FileSo it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:13:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yor: How long has Ukraine been its own country in the last 1000 years? More years than the United States has existed. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:16:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and Norway are not members of the EU. But they are members of NATO. Would you say it is reasonable for them to expect Hungary to act on NATO decisions with the cost/benefit analysis to NATO in mind? If, instead, Hungary uses its position in NATO to exert pressure on the EU, possibly to the detriment of NATO, do you think this will enhance the other NATO members' trust of Hungary or degrade it? |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:20:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FylWuCfWIAEHcIm?format=jpg&name=900x900 Every time the Russian army blows a damn they create a chunk of land that is too wet for the ukrainians to cross, and so the Russians do not have to use troops defending that piece of land. They can reallocate those troops to someplace where they are more needed. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:34:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: I agree, it is definitely in their interest to stay on good terms with NATO. Seems like Orban has become a detriment to his country and should be voted out ASAP. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Maybe Hungary can stop blocking every NATO move. They conflate EU issues with NATO, repeatedly try to obstruct aid to Ukraine because Putin has his hand up Orban's ass. NATO made it simple. Quit blocking Sweden and you get your toys. Aren't they following Turkey's lead on this? I am not familiar with why they are blocking Sweden. The only thing I have heard is they don't like EU immigration requirements so they try to use NATO to get revenge on EU. That is how retarded Orban is. Plus, he is Putin's puppet and Putin does not want NATO to expand. He got a cheap construction loan on their biggest nuke plant from Putin so he is owned. I agree, it is definitely in their interest to stay on good terms with NATO. Seems like Orban has become a detriment to his country and should be voted out ASAP. It’s a strange situation. He has great things domestically. And he and Poland were forming a strong coalition to counter globohomo of EU. But I think it is his nuke deal with Putin that causes him to give the finger to NATO every chance he gets. How someone that cares about his country can do a decades long deal with Russia is mind boggling. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:36:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Every time the Russian army blows a damn they create a chunk of land that is too wet for the ukrainians to cross, and so the Russians do not have to use troops defending that piece of land. They can reallocate those troops to someplace where they are more needed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FylWuCfWIAEHcIm?format=jpg&name=900x900 Every time the Russian army blows a damn they create a chunk of land that is too wet for the ukrainians to cross, and so the Russians do not have to use troops defending that piece of land. They can reallocate those troops to someplace where they are more needed. More Himars food |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:45:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FylWuCfWIAEHcIm?format=jpg&name=900x900 I’m starting to think Russia needs to be disassembled after the war. If not broken into smaller pieces it needs to have its nuclear and missile programs recycled into dust. Without those two programs Russia is no bigger threat than Afghanistan. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:47:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG Originally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By strykr: So we tell Hungary to get serious about NATO and now that they try to increase their defense spending we punish them for it? Seems dumb to me as it undermines NATO. We sell weapons to every Middle Eastern dictator but refuse to sell them to a NATO member? It will drive Hungary further away from the US as they question whether Article 5 even applies to them. It may just be that they are not aligned with us, and should take their chances with being invaded by Russia (again) on their own. Lot of BS coming from them last little while. Is this not a step in the right direction? What should Hungary do to better align with NATO goals? Is higher defense spending not what we would like to see? Making them feel like they are on their own will make them even more cautious and less likely to stand up against Russia. What good to NATO is Hungarian defense spending if they are hostile to other NATO members? Do you really think Hungary is coming to ANYONE’S aid? The blocked Finland and Sweden entry. They repeatedly blocked aid to Ukraine. NATO is a MUTUAL defense alliance not a loner shopping mall. It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG Except NATO is not EU. A simple concept Orban seems incapable of understanding. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:47:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:50:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sp20224life]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Either that truck was stuffed full of TNT or Russia makes a 1000lb mine. That explosion was enormous. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 6:53:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1969iggy]
[#16]
I forgot who requested this, but it will be available for the Murrells Inlet, SC toast to Ukraine on the evening of August 24th or 25th. If i am lucky my buddy Tony will come and visit as well. He's been in Ukraine a number of times training medics and bringing supplies.
Let us hope there is more good news to toast to. 
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:02:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Pics of the sacrifice made. :(
 
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:04:08 PM EDT
[#18]
I don't know if this has been posted here. But can someone tell me why a war map has bacon on it?
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:04:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: Reminiscent of that cache of antique Martin Henry rifles they found in Lagan Silekhana Palace in Katmandu in 2000. Mine is still coated with Yakmoline! |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:09:43 PM EDT
[#20]
4 min ago.
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:10:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Actually a decent interview with Prigozhin. His conclusion: if military command is not changed Russia will undergo civil war or revolution. Current command is out of touch with battlefield needs and ignores requests or advice.
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:16:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#22]
Impressive explody video! 152mm SPG.
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:16:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1969iggy: Pics of the sacrifice made. :(https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/319364/UKR1-2851575.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/319364/UKR2-2851574.jpg 
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:27:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Actually a decent interview with Prigozhin. His conclusion: if military command is not changed Russia will undergo civil war or revolution. Current command is out of touch with battlefield needs and ignores requests or advice.
Is he one of the people planning to start the civil war? |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:35:21 PM EDT
[#25]
So what does Hungary have that NATO / EU wants?
What does the EU / NATO have that Hungary needs? Synopsis in two sentences please. It's all so tiresome. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:37:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PolarBear416]
[#26]
Deleted (misread question)
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:39:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: So what does Hungary have that NATO / EU wants? What does the EU / NATO have that Hungary needs? Synopsis in two sentences please. It's all so tiresome. What EU wants - cheap labor What NATO wants - not much really What EU provides - jobs What NATO provides - protection from Russia |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:40:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: People in the US are soo lucky and have no idea what it's like elsewhere. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By thehun06: That is how most of Russia looks like outside of bigger cities. It’s a crap hole. Conscripts come from the poorest regions … most are malnourished. People in the US are soo lucky and have no idea what it's like elsewhere. True, but Russians have to live like that so Putin can be the richest man in the world, and his oligarch buddies can all be multi-billionaires. Russia produces enough wealth that people shouldn't have to live like that. But the fascists in charge don't kick much back for the common good. Think about it: Putin alone is reputedly worth around $200,000,000,000 (probably more than that). That's about $1,400 for every man, woman, and child in Russia. If Russia were run by effective people with an interest in public benefit and economic growth, it would be an amazingly successful place, and they could live as well as Americans. No wonder Russians drink so much and have the highest suicide and abortion rates in the industrialized world. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:41:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I would say more than damaged lol.
TOR UP!! |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:43:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG That's crap. NATO has no authority whatsoever, or even influence, over EU social policy, and they shouldn't. Yes, Hungary should tell the EU to pound sand on domestic policy, including immigration laws. But it's total BS to tie that to any NATO action, and everybody who knows a thing or two already knows that. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:49:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Is he one of the people planning to start the civil war? Sounds more he wants to lead a revolution. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:51:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
GOT DAM!!! |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:54:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: What EU wants - cheap labor What NATO wants - not much really What EU provides - jobs What NATO provides - protection from Russia Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: So what does Hungary have that NATO / EU wants? What does the EU / NATO have that Hungary needs? Synopsis in two sentences please. It's all so tiresome. What EU wants - cheap labor What NATO wants - not much really What EU provides - jobs What NATO provides - protection from Russia ty |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:56:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Except NATO is not EU. A simple concept Orban seems incapable of understanding. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG Originally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By strykr: So we tell Hungary to get serious about NATO and now that they try to increase their defense spending we punish them for it? Seems dumb to me as it undermines NATO. We sell weapons to every Middle Eastern dictator but refuse to sell them to a NATO member? It will drive Hungary further away from the US as they question whether Article 5 even applies to them. It may just be that they are not aligned with us, and should take their chances with being invaded by Russia (again) on their own. Lot of BS coming from them last little while. Is this not a step in the right direction? What should Hungary do to better align with NATO goals? Is higher defense spending not what we would like to see? Making them feel like they are on their own will make them even more cautious and less likely to stand up against Russia. What good to NATO is Hungarian defense spending if they are hostile to other NATO members? Do you really think Hungary is coming to ANYONE’S aid? The blocked Finland and Sweden entry. They repeatedly blocked aid to Ukraine. NATO is a MUTUAL defense alliance not a loner shopping mall. It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG Except NATO is not EU. A simple concept Orban seems incapable of understanding. Aside from that elephant in the room Hungary wants to enjoy EU benifits but not the responsibilities. I mean sure I want that as wel in my daily life but as a nation state and high contracting party it's different set of rules. For the record I am very much in favor of a complete overhaul of EU asylum law so Hungary and the others need to adress the issue within the given legal framwork OR step out of said framework. Just a couple of days ago a step in the right direction was agreed in the sense that countries wil be able to pay not to have to take asylum seekers. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/eu-agrees-radical-reforms-migration-asylum-laws In a sense it's also not fair to burden Italy/Greece ect with the full costs effort of all the stuff that lands of their shore and for some reason none of the new arrivals seem to think 'Oh I think Hungary/Poland/Czech ect. will give me some nice free shit, I'll move there'  Thus leaving the more guillible EU members to pick up the slack.PSA: I have no problem with guniune asylum seekers BUT a large part of the people landing are just out for free shit. My personal EU plan is grant asylum to women and children and the over fucking whelming amount of single men of millitary age get a parachute and a rifle when they are dropped of in ther repective shithole to fix it. To point this is what it looks like  Asielzoekers moeten bij vertrekcentrum Ter Apel buiten slapen |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 7:58:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Is he one of the people planning to start the civil war? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Actually a decent interview with Prigozhin. His conclusion: if military command is not changed Russia will undergo civil war or revolution. Current command is out of touch with battlefield needs and ignores requests or advice.
Is he one of the people planning to start the civil war? I got the impression he was offering to be the new head of MoD. But yeah. He would definitely be one of the civil war “generals.” |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:01:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Lulz..
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:05:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Individualist: Lulz..
How many fucking WarMonitors are there? |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:13:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: It's the horrendous service that keeps me away. Well that, and there's a CFA on the same block where the food is served fast, fresh and by friendly people. Plus my son works there, so I know a lot of the workers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By MFP_4073: Originally Posted By sq40: Don't fuck with Ronald and Grimace. MOABs for Ukraine now!  it's fun to rip on McDonalds -- but in my experience -- McDonalds in other countries is usually not too bad. served to a decent standard. unlike a lot of ghetto McDs in the US... McDs is my favorite fast food joint. It's pure comfort food for me. I could probably eat it every day. It's the horrendous service that keeps me away. Well that, and there's a CFA on the same block where the food is served fast, fresh and by friendly people. Plus my son works there, so I know a lot of the workers. I find McDonald's service (and virtually all other fast food places) varies greatly by the location. In the city it's generally bad. If I go to one in a small town I get the service I remember for 30 years ago. Now their current menu is worse than it was then, but the service is still good in the small towns. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:18:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Actually a decent interview with Prigozhin. His conclusion: if military command is not changed Russia will undergo civil war or revolution. Current command is out of touch with battlefield needs and ignores requests or advice.
 Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:18:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and Norway are not members of the EU. But they are members of NATO. Would you say it is reasonable for them to expect Hungary to act on NATO decisions with the cost/benefit analysis to NATO in mind? If, instead, Hungary uses its position in NATO to exert pressure on the EU, possibly to the detriment of NATO, do you think this will enhance the other NATO members' trust of Hungary or degrade it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and Norway are not members of the EU. But they are members of NATO. Would you say it is reasonable for them to expect Hungary to act on NATO decisions with the cost/benefit analysis to NATO in mind? If, instead, Hungary uses its position in NATO to exert pressure on the EU, possibly to the detriment of NATO, do you think this will enhance the other NATO members' trust of Hungary or degrade it? Exactly...I am all onboard with the migrant issue that plagues Europe and Hungary's stance on it ... but ... going against NATO because of it ... well ... Hungary ... my birth country ... either you are NATO or you are not ... |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:21:53 PM EDT
[#41]
https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/ausmusterung-von-kampfpanzern-nationalrat-macht-den-ersten-schritt-zum-panzer-deal These 25 Leopard 2A4 from Switzerland being transferred back to Germany could free up an additional 25 German tanks for donation to Ukraine. The Swiss don't want their specific tanks donated to Ukraine so they can remain semi-neutral. So these will be used to backfill German donations. I don't imagine the Ukrainians care where their Leopards come from, they just want more of them! This is one way to make that happen, even if a bit of a convoluted process. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:21:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and Norway are not members of the EU. But they are members of NATO. Would you say it is reasonable for them to expect Hungary to act on NATO decisions with the cost/benefit analysis to NATO in mind? If, instead, Hungary uses its position in NATO to exert pressure on the EU, possibly to the detriment of NATO, do you think this will enhance the other NATO members' trust of Hungary or degrade it? |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:26:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Aside from that elephant in the room Hungary wants to enjoy EU benifits but not the responsibilities. I mean sure I want that as wel in my daily life but as a nation state and high contracting party it's different set of rules. For the record I am very much in favor of a complete overhaul of EU asylum law so Hungary and the others need to adress the issue within the given legal framwork OR step out of said framework. Just a couple of days ago a step in the right direction was agreed in the sense that countries wil be able to pay not to have to take asylum seekers. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/eu-agrees-radical-reforms-migration-asylum-laws In a sense it's also not fair to burden Italy/Greece ect with the full costs effort of all the stuff that lands of their shore and for some reason none of the new arrivals seem to think 'Oh I think Hungary/Poland/Czech ect. will give me some nice free shit, I'll move there' Thus leaving the more guillible EU members to pick up the slack.PSA: I have no problem with guniune asylum seekers BUT a large part of the people landing are just out for free shit. My personal EU plan is grant asylum to women and children and the over fucking whelming amount of single men of millitary age get a parachute and a rifle when they are dropped of in ther repective shithole to fix it. To point this is what it looks like  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBdwJmyRycsQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG Originally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By PolarBear416: Originally Posted By strykr: So we tell Hungary to get serious about NATO and now that they try to increase their defense spending we punish them for it? Seems dumb to me as it undermines NATO. We sell weapons to every Middle Eastern dictator but refuse to sell them to a NATO member? It will drive Hungary further away from the US as they question whether Article 5 even applies to them. It may just be that they are not aligned with us, and should take their chances with being invaded by Russia (again) on their own. Lot of BS coming from them last little while. Is this not a step in the right direction? What should Hungary do to better align with NATO goals? Is higher defense spending not what we would like to see? Making them feel like they are on their own will make them even more cautious and less likely to stand up against Russia. What good to NATO is Hungarian defense spending if they are hostile to other NATO members? Do you really think Hungary is coming to ANYONE’S aid? The blocked Finland and Sweden entry. They repeatedly blocked aid to Ukraine. NATO is a MUTUAL defense alliance not a loner shopping mall. It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG Except NATO is not EU. A simple concept Orban seems incapable of understanding. Aside from that elephant in the room Hungary wants to enjoy EU benifits but not the responsibilities. I mean sure I want that as wel in my daily life but as a nation state and high contracting party it's different set of rules. For the record I am very much in favor of a complete overhaul of EU asylum law so Hungary and the others need to adress the issue within the given legal framwork OR step out of said framework. Just a couple of days ago a step in the right direction was agreed in the sense that countries wil be able to pay not to have to take asylum seekers. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/eu-agrees-radical-reforms-migration-asylum-laws In a sense it's also not fair to burden Italy/Greece ect with the full costs effort of all the stuff that lands of their shore and for some reason none of the new arrivals seem to think 'Oh I think Hungary/Poland/Czech ect. will give me some nice free shit, I'll move there' Thus leaving the more guillible EU members to pick up the slack.PSA: I have no problem with guniune asylum seekers BUT a large part of the people landing are just out for free shit. My personal EU plan is grant asylum to women and children and the over fucking whelming amount of single men of millitary age get a parachute and a rifle when they are dropped of in ther repective shithole to fix it. To point this is what it looks like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBdwJmyRycsYeah, I think EU has far outgrown its original market place purpose. It is now a heavy handed tyrant for social engineering and subversion of sovereignty. UK was smart to exit. Countries should look for cooperation and markets in other places like Brazil, Korea, Philippines etc. then use those trade relationships as leverage for bilateral agreements with the big European countries like Germany and France. No small country is going to be better off in the EU. You get forever loans, but get screwed on exports, environmental and social policy. Does anyone really think that France or Germany is going to let any other country get a good deal from THEM in control? So yes, stay the hell out of the EU. The war in Ukraine has shown the bloated weakness of NATO. The Western countries don’t give a fuck for defense spending because they know Russia has to slog through Eastern and Central Europe first. They feel zero skin in the game. The UK is the only half awake western country. The nuclear shield is only provided by the US, UK and France? Anyone believe France is going to be reliable? Those countries under immediate threat from Russia ought to form the Skin Alliance with bilateral agreement with the US for Nuke shield. Fuck NATO. I mean, NATO is the best game in town for now. But the future requires more agility and more solidarity than we see from NATO. It took them a year to admit Russia might be a threat to their interests, sort of, maybe. If I was President of an eastern European country I would be in heavy talks with Poland, Baltics and Nordics, Japan, Korea, UK and the US. Forget the others. Italy, Austria, Hungary, Greece, Spain et al are inconsequential for contributions and are only risks for obstruction. Everybody has an oar in the water at all times or you get booted. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:26:06 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:31:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851491.JPG It's mainly about the migrant issue again and that the EU is demanding that Hungary accept 10k migrants into the country as part of their quota of migrants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102840_jpg-2851488.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20230612_102704_jpg-2851489.JPG So it is a tit for tat in that, the EU puts away its quota and then Hungary will vote on Sweden and get them accepted. Finland vote happened because the EU caved to Hungary and allowed the final permits and approvals for the PaksII plant which was taking over 9 years for the EU to approve it. This means that the EU can play ball when it comes to Hungary. They want Sweden? Then let Sweden take Hungarys quota of 10k fucken invading migrants. And then just like that, Hungary will approve Sweden's entry. Sounds bad, but its all politics and Hungary wanting their EU funding which the EU owes 2 years of it now and the migrant issue. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/migrant_jpeg-2851493.JPG Sounds like Hungary is incompatible with the west. There is always something. Keeping Sweden out of nato because of the eu is a dick move. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:31:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: NATO has become more of a political organization like the EU, rather than being a military defense organization. That explains Hungary's behavior towards NATO votes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and Norway are not members of the EU. But they are members of NATO. Would you say it is reasonable for them to expect Hungary to act on NATO decisions with the cost/benefit analysis to NATO in mind? If, instead, Hungary uses its position in NATO to exert pressure on the EU, possibly to the detriment of NATO, do you think this will enhance the other NATO members' trust of Hungary or degrade it? Conflating EU issues with NATO activities is irrational, ineffective, counterproductive, and erodes trust. In a VENN diagram just because two sectors overlap does not mean equivalence. Not a hard concept. But Orban can keep pounding his head on concrete facts and he will find it does not change a thing for the better. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:31:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I don't know if this has been posted here. But can someone tell me why a war map has bacon on it?
Smoked Chechens. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:32:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/totally_real_image-2851657.jpg That sort of looks like a marine sock puppet… |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:33:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Smoked Chechens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I don't know if this has been posted here. But can someone tell me why a war map has bacon on it?
Smoked Chechens. As an insult to Islam or suggesting long pork is on the grill? |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 8:34:03 PM EDT
[#50]
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