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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:13:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Since the topic of the SS Galicia is in the news, I wanted to post some info since much of the conservative media is yet again posting a Kremlin narrative unfortunately. Many are very ignorant about what the Galicia SS was. It was NOT a typical German SS unit, it was a military unit ONLY used only for front line combat. Ukrainians that joined pledged: - ONLY to fight Russian communists since Russia just a few years earlier deported 300,000 Ukrainians to die in Siberia AND Stalin murdersd between 7 - 12 million Ukrainians in the Holodomor in 1931, the largest genocide by famine in order to wipe out Ukrainian history, ethnicity, culture, and language (something that was going on for hundreds of years between Muscovites/Russians and Kyivan-Rus people/Ukrainians). - Ukrainians stated that they are NEVER to be positioned to fight ANY Allied force (and in the rare instance where they wound up faced off with one like France, they surrendered), and they never fought the Allies - The SS Galicia funneled weapons to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army which was fighting and killing the Russians AND the Germans - At one point, SS Galicia Units joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in mass - The Ukrainian SS Galicia were NOT political Nazis nor did they consider themselves Nazis (Nazis killed over 2 million Ukrainians in WW2, my family wound up in a German camp and their home, business, and farm were taken) - the Russians HATED Ukrainians and their partisan groups so as they say, the victors write the history and they did- filled with lies about Ukrainians I won't list a bunch of books about this because ARFCOM is book/reading phobic, but here is one interview which may be of interest:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOQHS0EPDc0I went to wiki, and they did kill many Polish civilians. To me end of story, and its up to Poland to proceed with extradition of who every that guy is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_ It also talks about how they joined the UA army. Still, they were involved with murdering civilians |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:16:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jough43: I really wish that Georgia would take this opportunity to get froggy with Putin. The current government is made up of Russian stooges. That's why the general population has been protesting the government for the past few years. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:23:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Agreed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By MFP_4073: yeah i'm not worried about Desantis. its just talking points. 87% of a candidate's platform -- for me anyway -- is about domestic issues. i have little doubt he would continue aid to Ukraine if in office -- and the House / Senate were sending bills containing aid packages. my gut tells me he has not had the high level briefings that administration people are getting. and probably doesn't have a lot of time to monitor this thread.  Agreed. I do hope this is the case. He doesn't strike me as stupid after all, or I wouldn't be supporting him. I still don't like the lack of leadership on it. Then again I expected more out of ostensibly smart folks in Congress like Mike Lee too so, who knows. 
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:33:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Increasingly, information is appearing that fighters of the Wagner PMC are signing contracts with the Ministry of Defense one after another. The talk is that they will perform the same tasks and, in general, do exactly what they are good at. However, it is worth understanding this point in more detail.
It is important to understand that the origins of the organization were Yevgeny Prigozhin and Dmitry Utkin. Their teamwork and, one might even say, a certain synergy, made the structure the best in the cluster of private military companies. The successes of the “Orchestra” are the result not only of the professionalism of the “musicians”, but also of competent management carried out by its top officials. And these first persons died on August 23 in the sky over the Tver region. Conversations about “what difference does it make, Wagner and Wagner in Africa” are partly reminiscent of dancing on bones. They level the merits of the organization’s leaders and elevate the structures in which the fighters find themselves. But “neo-Wagner” has not yet shown any real results. At the same time, no one is in a hurry to abandon a successful brand: someone clearly needs to keep the name and “move out” at the expense of a recognizable name. Without Prigozhin and Utkin, PMC “Wagner” is not PMC “Wagner” at all. There would be no Syria, Libya, Ukraine. If there had been no success, no love from the people, no incredible popularity, young people across the country would not have worn the chevrons and symbols of the “Orchestra”. And it would be much more respectful of the First and Ninth to create and promote a new brand, rather than exploit something to which you have nothing to do and in which you have not a single merit. Reposted on Grey Zone https://t.me/grey_zone/20800 |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:34:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Video of several Ukrainian FPV drones attacks in Sudan. Against Wagner forces. Interesting…
cnn is the source for this  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:41:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: I watched the buildup to this war and the invasion. Ukraine fought well and the Russians overestimated their strength and underestimated Ukraine. I despise Russia and don’t care what happens to them. I responded a couple pages back on Desantis because I want a president that puts America first. Not World Police. We can’t afford it. 3 of my four Grandparents served in WW2, absolutely it was the right cause. Never should have helped the Soviets though. We could have let them and the Germans kill each other and stopped the Iron curtain. Now I see China is buying Ukrainian grain. I’m sure when the wars over they’ll keep those connections and we’ll be left holding the empty bag again. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: But at what point do "we" worry about the rule of law? International treaties? Mass murder, rape and kidnapping? Only when it is happening to you? How about your immediate family? Friends? Would you watch a perfect stranger get attacked and murdered? Is there any military intervention by the US that you DID agree with? WWI? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? Nicaragua? Do you thank the 100K or so Ukrainians who have died degrading Russia so you no longer worry about them? I watched the buildup to this war and the invasion. Ukraine fought well and the Russians overestimated their strength and underestimated Ukraine. I despise Russia and don’t care what happens to them. I responded a couple pages back on Desantis because I want a president that puts America first. Not World Police. We can’t afford it. 3 of my four Grandparents served in WW2, absolutely it was the right cause. Never should have helped the Soviets though. We could have let them and the Germans kill each other and stopped the Iron curtain. Now I see China is buying Ukrainian grain. I’m sure when the wars over they’ll keep those connections and we’ll be left holding the empty bag again. You should get up to speed beyond ARF level conventional wisdom regarding Ukraine, China and Russia. China is (well, was) in Ukraine deep with Belt and Road and many other investments and Ukraine was one of the top external weapons suppliers to China, particularly with advanced stuff that Russia was reluctant to provide because despite all the buddy-buddy we see in the news they see China as a threat. That’s all fine, every nation has its own interests and needs to watch out for itself, my point is that China is much more on the fence with regard to Ukraine than western media and usual narrative on ARF tend to believe. A while back I said and still believe that we could see China broker a ceasefire or peace deal that ends this war. They have a stake in and are invested in and are politically close with Russia and Ukraine. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: METT-T]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: I tried but the discussion was taking more time than I had I went to wiki, and they did kill many Polish civilians. To me end of story, and its up to Poland to proceed with extradition of who every that guy is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_ It also talks about how they joined the UA army. Still, they were involved with murdering civilians Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Since the topic of the SS Galicia is in the news, I wanted to post some info since much of the conservative media is yet again posting a Kremlin narrative unfortunately. Many are very ignorant about what the Galicia SS was. It was NOT a typical German SS unit, it was a military unit ONLY used only for front line combat. Ukrainians that joined pledged: - ONLY to fight Russian communists since Russia just a few years earlier deported 300,000 Ukrainians to die in Siberia AND Stalin murdersd between 7 - 12 million Ukrainians in the Holodomor in 1931, the largest genocide by famine in order to wipe out Ukrainian history, ethnicity, culture, and language (something that was going on for hundreds of years between Muscovites/Russians and Kyivan-Rus people/Ukrainians). - Ukrainians stated that they are NEVER to be positioned to fight ANY Allied force (and in the rare instance where they wound up faced off with one like France, they surrendered), and they never fought the Allies - The SS Galicia funneled weapons to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army which was fighting and killing the Russians AND the Germans - At one point, SS Galicia Units joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in mass - The Ukrainian SS Galicia were NOT political Nazis nor did they consider themselves Nazis (Nazis killed over 2 million Ukrainians in WW2, my family wound up in a German camp and their home, business, and farm were taken) - the Russians HATED Ukrainians and their partisan groups so as they say, the victors write the history and they did- filled with lies about Ukrainians I won't list a bunch of books about this because ARFCOM is book/reading phobic, but here is one interview which may be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOQHS0EPDc0I went to wiki, and they did kill many Polish civilians. To me end of story, and its up to Poland to proceed with extradition of who every that guy is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_ It also talks about how they joined the UA army. Still, they were involved with murdering civilians Nobody should be under any illusions about Ukrainian nationalists killing Polish civilians before and during WWII. Not in service of Nazi Germany but for their own purposes. SS, UPA, OUN, whatever. When the Russians talk about Banderites that's what they're hitting at and they get legitimate mileage out of it. Forget the Azov wolfsangel and sonnenrads: every time you see that red and black flag or Pravy Sektor patch that's a direct reference to a political-military movement that took deliberate measures to murder Polish civilians as a matter of policy. Herding women and children and old men into Catholic churches and setting them on fire, cutting kids in half. Nasty, brutal stuff. And the Poles haven't forgotten. Traditionally a rough neighborhood. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/28/2023 10:50:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Love it.  Only thing better would have been to see some secondaries. EDIT: Dracster makes a great video even better: small secondary! But I’m sure the Ivans on the receiving end had a really bad day. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:01:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By Old_Fashioned: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: News update for you - Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are NATO members now. Maybe you didn't know that. Those are also historically part of Russia, according to Russia. I’m aware. Let me repeat. Russia will not invade a NATO country. They know they would be completely destroyed. Ukraine is not a NATO country and Russia wanted it to stay that way. Is what it is. A Soviet civil war. Desantis needs to focus on Americans, which he is trying to do. Not worry about the boogie man we helped create. Like they aren’t already play fuck fuck games with the Baltics and several other NATO/former Soviet republics. First they try to flood with propaganda and narrative, precisely like “Russia will never invade Estonia, promise, really!” At the same time they are buying off and compromising key political figures, worming their gas/oil deals into exclusive contracts and pipelines. Basically all the soft invasion tactics. Get some puppet elected by various means. Then special laws passed to protect Russian interests, companies, and Russian speakers and church. Finally manufacture conflict and get invited to send Russian troops to protect Russian interests. Have armed Russian secure elections on referendum to join with Russia. Up until 2022 even Zelensky thought the Russians wouldn’t invade fully. Nor did the West until Dec/Jan. No, the Russians would never invade a NATO country. Until they are invited to, or are “forced to intervene to protect Russians in xxxx.” |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:03:15 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:12:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bikedamon]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By METT-T: Nobody should be under any illusions about Ukrainian nationalists killing Polish civilians before and during WWII. Not in service of Nazi Germany but for their own purposes. SS, UPA, OUN, whatever. When the Russians talk about Banderites that's what they're hitting at and they get legitimate mileage out of it. Forget the Azov wolfsangel and sonnenrads: every time you see that red and black flag or Pravy Sektor patch that's a direct reference to a political-military movement that took deliberate measures to murder Polish civilians as a matter of policy. Herding women and children and old men into Catholic churches and setting them on fire, cutting kids in half. Nasty, brutal stuff. And the Poles haven't forgotten. Traditionally a rough neighborhood. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By METT-T: Originally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Since the topic of the SS Galicia is in the news, I wanted to post some info since much of the conservative media is yet again posting a Kremlin narrative unfortunately. Many are very ignorant about what the Galicia SS was. It was NOT a typical German SS unit, it was a military unit ONLY used only for front line combat. Ukrainians that joined pledged: - ONLY to fight Russian communists since Russia just a few years earlier deported 300,000 Ukrainians to die in Siberia AND Stalin murdersd between 7 - 12 million Ukrainians in the Holodomor in 1931, the largest genocide by famine in order to wipe out Ukrainian history, ethnicity, culture, and language (something that was going on for hundreds of years between Muscovites/Russians and Kyivan-Rus people/Ukrainians). - Ukrainians stated that they are NEVER to be positioned to fight ANY Allied force (and in the rare instance where they wound up faced off with one like France, they surrendered), and they never fought the Allies - The SS Galicia funneled weapons to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army which was fighting and killing the Russians AND the Germans - At one point, SS Galicia Units joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in mass - The Ukrainian SS Galicia were NOT political Nazis nor did they consider themselves Nazis (Nazis killed over 2 million Ukrainians in WW2, my family wound up in a German camp and their home, business, and farm were taken) - the Russians HATED Ukrainians and their partisan groups so as they say, the victors write the history and they did- filled with lies about Ukrainians I won't list a bunch of books about this because ARFCOM is book/reading phobic, but here is one interview which may be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOQHS0EPDc0I went to wiki, and they did kill many Polish civilians. To me end of story, and its up to Poland to proceed with extradition of who every that guy is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_ It also talks about how they joined the UA army. Still, they were involved with murdering civilians Nobody should be under any illusions about Ukrainian nationalists killing Polish civilians before and during WWII. Not in service of Nazi Germany but for their own purposes. SS, UPA, OUN, whatever. When the Russians talk about Banderites that's what they're hitting at and they get legitimate mileage out of it. Forget the Azov wolfsangel and sonnenrads: every time you see that red and black flag or Pravy Sektor patch that's a direct reference to a political-military movement that took deliberate measures to murder Polish civilians as a matter of policy. Herding women and children and old men into Catholic churches and setting them on fire, cutting kids in half. Nasty, brutal stuff. And the Poles haven't forgotten. Traditionally a rough neighborhood. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynia_ Good movie, a tough watch. Both sides have been trying to put it behind them for a while now and acknowledgement is part of that process. Russia is exploiting the pain. It happened between many many ethnic groups in the region. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:20:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: Um… yes We gave the Soviets 11,000 planes, 6,000 tanks, 300,000 trucks, 350 trains 3,000,000 tons of food, 2,600,000 tons of gasoline. 15,000,000 pairs of boots. 400,000 jeeps. A Soviet Union that included Ukraine and a Soviet Union that killed millions and millions of its own people. FDR paid ol Joe Stalin big time. Stalin was born in Georgia I believe, not Russia. A smart America would have let the Germans and Soviets bleed each other white and taken Berlin while the bulk of the German army was still killing Soviets between Warsaw and Moscow. Instead we green lit the Iron curtain. We absolutely helped create our own boogie man. Gotcha. I thought you were talking about recent history. I totally agree, US should not have supported Stalin at all. Should have let them bleed and die. Stalin was always worse than Hitler. If Russia had had less support, we might have kept Germany whole after the war and kept more of Europe free. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:25:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: A Stalin we bailed out yes. They’re a terrible bunch and we bailed them out. All I want is a president that puts America first. We lost 60,000 men in Vietnam and now buy shoes from the guys that killed them. Almost every one of those men was killed with Russian weapons. Some were killed by Russians operating the SAMs. The shoe is on the other foot now. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:32:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: lol, it does suck when they try to film from another display screen showing the action. And reminder they are filming at max range under non ideal conditions in a heavily jammed environment. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:32:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: I’m aware. Let me repeat. Russia will not invade a NATO country. They know they would be completely destroyed. Ukraine is not a NATO country and Russia wanted it to stay that way. Is what it is. A Soviet civil war. Desantis needs to focus on Americans, which he is trying to do. Not worry about the boogie man we helped create. That's not what their leaders and military command have stated. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:41:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: The current government is made up of Russian stooges. That's why the general population has been protesting the government for the past few years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By jough43: I really wish that Georgia would take this opportunity to get froggy with Putin. The current government is made up of Russian stooges. That's why the general population has been protesting the government for the past few years. I'm less quick to condemn Georgia's government. During the 2022 Russo-Ukrainian War, the Georgian Dream government has provided humanitarian assistance to Ukraine and sheltered Ukrainian refugees, while supporting Ukraine at diplomatic forum. However, it did not join financial and economic sanctions imposed on Russia by several Western countries and did not provide military assistance to Ukraine. Nikoloz Samkharadze, Chair of Foreign Relations Committee of Georgian Parliament in interview to Vice stated that "Georgia is the most exposed country in the world to the Russian aggression. The Russian troops are stationed 30 kilometers away from where we are sitting right now, from the heart of the Tbilisi. So, in this circumstances, I think Georgia is punching above its weight when it supports Ukraine at diplomatic forum, politically and also in humanitarian dimension". Georgia is puny, and Russia could still roll them, even with all the losses in Ukraine. |
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Posted: 9/28/2023 11:57:39 PM EDT
[#17]
 28 Sep: THEY CAN’T BE SERIOUS! Russians PACK THEIR TANKS WITH TONS OF EXPLOSIVES | War in Ukraine |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 12:13:15 AM EDT
[#18]
This is kinda beating a dead horse, but just in case there’s any doubt it’s good to hear it directly from Russians.
Protest earthquakes in Yerevan Our correspondent Dmitry Seleznev (Old Shakhtar), who is now in Armenia, summarized in one text his comments regarding the protests in Yerevan. - Vargonzo? Vargonzo helped surrender Artsakh - introducing myself to get a comment from one man, I ran into ridiculous accusations that the military project in which I participate was somehow to blame for the defeat of 2020, in particular for the fall of Hadrut, a city in Nagorno-Karabakh . My independent journalistic status did not allow me to argue that, unlike this Armenian, I was in Artsakh during the 44-day war, including in Hadrut, as well as in Stepanakert, where I fled from Azerbaijani missiles. By the way, I almost got killed there. It is unknown what this Yerevan resident was doing at that decisive time for Armenia. But from his comment it became clear that he is not only against Pashinyan, but also considers Russian peacekeepers to be guilty of the current situation. In general, it is noticeable that the attitude of Armenians towards Russians has changed, it has become at least alienated, and mostly negative. But in essence, the fall of Artsakh is also a defeat for Russia. Artsakh is not only an Armenian republic, but also a Russian one. In Stepanakert, the vast majority of the population speaks Russian, many people have Russian passports, there are a lot of inscriptions in Russian, many Russian schools are open, unlike Yerevan. In Artsakh, Russian can be considered the state language. More precisely, one could count. There is no need to have a special gift of foresight here - with the establishment of Azerbaijani statehood, the majority of Armenians, fearing ethnic cleansing, will leave this region, as happened three years ago in the regions occupied by Azerbaijanis. By evening, indeed, there were significantly more people in the square. The forces of law and order also increased - several police buses and army trucks arrived, bringing soldiers of the internal troops. These units can be immediately identified by their red berets... https://t.me/wargonzo/15345 |
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USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 12:25:37 AM EDT
[#19]
Check 3:30 in this video. Three close range kills with a Colt AR, BCM rail. Looks a bit long to be an M4?
 ????? ???????? ? ?????????: ?????? ??? ?? ???????? ???????????? ?????? |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 12:30:55 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 9/29/2023 1:14:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Like they aren’t already play fuck fuck games with the Baltics and several other NATO/former Soviet republics. First they try to flood with propaganda and narrative, precisely like “Russia will never invade Estonia, promise, really!” At the same time they are buying off and compromising key political figures, worming their gas/oil deals into exclusive contracts and pipelines. Basically all the soft invasion tactics. Get some puppet elected by various means. Then special laws passed to protect Russian interests, companies, and Russian speakers and church. Finally manufacture conflict and get invited to send Russian troops to protect Russian interests. Have armed Russian secure elections on referendum to join with Russia. Up until 2022 even Zelensky thought the Russians wouldn’t invade fully. Nor did the West until Dec/Jan. No, the Russians would never invade a NATO country. Until they are invited to, or are “forced to intervene to protect Russians in xxxx.” Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By Old_Fashioned: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: News update for you - Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are NATO members now. Maybe you didn't know that. Those are also historically part of Russia, according to Russia. I’m aware. Let me repeat. Russia will not invade a NATO country. They know they would be completely destroyed. Ukraine is not a NATO country and Russia wanted it to stay that way. Is what it is. A Soviet civil war. Desantis needs to focus on Americans, which he is trying to do. Not worry about the boogie man we helped create. Like they aren’t already play fuck fuck games with the Baltics and several other NATO/former Soviet republics. First they try to flood with propaganda and narrative, precisely like “Russia will never invade Estonia, promise, really!” At the same time they are buying off and compromising key political figures, worming their gas/oil deals into exclusive contracts and pipelines. Basically all the soft invasion tactics. Get some puppet elected by various means. Then special laws passed to protect Russian interests, companies, and Russian speakers and church. Finally manufacture conflict and get invited to send Russian troops to protect Russian interests. Have armed Russian secure elections on referendum to join with Russia. Up until 2022 even Zelensky thought the Russians wouldn’t invade fully. Nor did the West until Dec/Jan. No, the Russians would never invade a NATO country. Until they are invited to, or are “forced to intervene to protect Russians in xxxx.” Just found this Average Ivan Sixpack interview where he says basically this exact same thing about Russia. VIDEO The empire cannot allow anyone to live better, so every country with a higher standard of living is an enemy. |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 1:18:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynia_ Good movie, a tough watch. Both sides have been trying to put it behind them for a while now and acknowledgement is part of that process. Russia is exploiting the pain. It happened between many many ethnic groups in the region. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: Originally Posted By METT-T: Originally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Since the topic of the SS Galicia is in the news, I wanted to post some info since much of the conservative media is yet again posting a Kremlin narrative unfortunately. Many are very ignorant about what the Galicia SS was. It was NOT a typical German SS unit, it was a military unit ONLY used only for front line combat. Ukrainians that joined pledged: - ONLY to fight Russian communists since Russia just a few years earlier deported 300,000 Ukrainians to die in Siberia AND Stalin murdersd between 7 - 12 million Ukrainians in the Holodomor in 1931, the largest genocide by famine in order to wipe out Ukrainian history, ethnicity, culture, and language (something that was going on for hundreds of years between Muscovites/Russians and Kyivan-Rus people/Ukrainians). - Ukrainians stated that they are NEVER to be positioned to fight ANY Allied force (and in the rare instance where they wound up faced off with one like France, they surrendered), and they never fought the Allies - The SS Galicia funneled weapons to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army which was fighting and killing the Russians AND the Germans - At one point, SS Galicia Units joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in mass - The Ukrainian SS Galicia were NOT political Nazis nor did they consider themselves Nazis (Nazis killed over 2 million Ukrainians in WW2, my family wound up in a German camp and their home, business, and farm were taken) - the Russians HATED Ukrainians and their partisan groups so as they say, the victors write the history and they did- filled with lies about Ukrainians I won't list a bunch of books about this because ARFCOM is book/reading phobic, but here is one interview which may be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOQHS0EPDc0I went to wiki, and they did kill many Polish civilians. To me end of story, and its up to Poland to proceed with extradition of who every that guy is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_ It also talks about how they joined the UA army. Still, they were involved with murdering civilians Nobody should be under any illusions about Ukrainian nationalists killing Polish civilians before and during WWII. Not in service of Nazi Germany but for their own purposes. SS, UPA, OUN, whatever. When the Russians talk about Banderites that's what they're hitting at and they get legitimate mileage out of it. Forget the Azov wolfsangel and sonnenrads: every time you see that red and black flag or Pravy Sektor patch that's a direct reference to a political-military movement that took deliberate measures to murder Polish civilians as a matter of policy. Herding women and children and old men into Catholic churches and setting them on fire, cutting kids in half. Nasty, brutal stuff. And the Poles haven't forgotten. Traditionally a rough neighborhood. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynia_ Good movie, a tough watch. Both sides have been trying to put it behind them for a while now and acknowledgement is part of that process. Russia is exploiting the pain. It happened between many many ethnic groups in the region. Whatever injustice countries have done to each other pales in scale to the many tens of millions Russia has slaughtered, imprisoned, raped and pillaged much to those very same countries such as Poland and Ukraine. Bury the hatchet in Putin’s head and live. |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 1:43:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Still big artillery numbers! 34
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Posted: 9/29/2023 2:32:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: Um… yes We gave the Soviets 11,000 planes, 6,000 tanks, 300,000 trucks, 350 trains 3,000,000 tons of food, 2,600,000 tons of gasoline. 15,000,000 pairs of boots. 400,000 jeeps. A Soviet Union that included Ukraine and a Soviet Union that killed millions and millions of its own people. FDR paid ol Joe Stalin big time. Stalin was born in Georgia I believe, not Russia. A smart America would have let the Germans and Soviets bleed each other white and taken Berlin while the bulk of the German army was still killing Soviets between Warsaw and Moscow. Instead we green lit the Iron curtain. We absolutely helped create our own boogie man. OK, I see part of your point here. In WWII terms I mostly agree; I thought you might have been referring to a post-1989 bogey man instead. Sadly I think that ship has long sailed, and I have my doubts given the political environment of the 1930s (State Department and intel agencies riddled with "fellow travelers") that there is any alternate history version of events where we could have somehow successfully pitted Germany vs the USSR without consequences to ourselves. Those chickens may finally be coming home to roost now for Russia. I wish like hell that Russia was shattered into pieces in the 1940s before they had atomic weapons, but I don't see how that could have occurred without giving an advantage to Germany. Nothing but ugly trade-offs all around. 
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Posted: 9/29/2023 2:35:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GTLandser]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lycurgus: Note how a seemingly innocuous and irrelevant statement is injected into this post. This statement's purpose is to subtly sway the uninformed to the notion that the Russians were just as much victims of the "Soviets" as were other nationalities, and that they are not responsible for any of the crimes committed under the Soviet Union. In GD we've seen other such supposed "historical facts" (regarding Katyn, Holodomor) from supposedly learned posters that attempt to sway the reader to the notion that the Russians are not guilty of Soviet crimes and that other nationalities bore the burden of such crimes. The only place in previous years past that I ever heard a statement such as "Stalin was a Georgian" was out of the mouths of Russians in the Baltics who attempted to white wash Russia and her complicity in the monstrous crimes of the Soviet Union. It worth noting that Russia has never denounced the Soviet Union. They still celebrate it as evidenced by visible symbology all over Russia (Hammer and Sickle, Red Star). They have even rehabilitated Stalin. Thus Russia, and not Ukraine, not the Baltics, etc. owns the crimes of the Soviet Union. Stalin was a Georgian, but he ruled in Moscow to the ultimate benefit of Russia. And Russia to this day idolizes Stalin the Butcher; Russia to this day OWNS Stalin and his crimes. Dang, also a great point, no disagreements from me there either. Quality post award.  ETA: about the nature of Russia and historical responsibility, not about anyone else' assertions. Key phrase in the term "discussion forum" being, discussion.
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:19:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#26]
 Granit? This is Sky Rambo. Hold fire! Hold fire! Damn you bastards, I’m gonna shove those abacus beads up your ass! You are shooting at me! Hold fire! No no no! Don’t “Fire!” Granit, damn you MF!!!!!!!
 Pilot died in the plane.
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:30:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#27]
Once Ukraine got on the board of directors the IAEA has gotten a spine. All eyes will be on ZPP from now on.
on the immediate return of the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant under Ukraine's full control, the Energy Ministry reported on Sept. 29. Full article for those running low on X |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:34:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#28]
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:36:29 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:44:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Finland adopts new national motto:
Fuck around and find out.
The new national anthem is: “Wisha muthafucka would”   |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:48:40 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 9/29/2023 5:51:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Good high level summary for anyone that missed the last day or two
5. Wagner fighters are coming back to fight in Ukraine 6. Russia is building a new rail line from Mariupol to Ukraine 7. UK defense minister Shapps and NATO's Secretary General Stoltenberg visited Kyiv |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 6:03:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#33]
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Posted: 9/29/2023 6:52:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#34]
    
 
  
 
 
 
 
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Posted: 9/29/2023 6:55:53 AM EDT
[#35]
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MD, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 7:18:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Gotcha. I thought you were talking about recent history. I totally agree, US should not have supported Stalin at all. Should have let them bleed and die. Stalin was always worse than Hitler. If Russia had had less support, we might have kept Germany whole after the war and kept more of Europe free. Counterpoint: Germany expended a ton of resources trying to take Moscow. Thank the mud for that. Who knows for sure what would have happened had Germany made it to Moscow. Had Germany not lost so much, who knows for sure how Europe or Russia would end up being shaped. Stalin was bad. So was Hitler. |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 7:18:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#37]
Video
And also- "We will not push Russia anywhere from our borders, so I believe that everyone at home should have a machine gun to protect themselves," -Danilov. https://t.me/ukrcadet/7278 |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 7:34:05 AM EDT
[#38]
 The SBU gathered evidence on the "Kadyrivets" who tortured Ukrainian prisoners and demanded money from their families for stopping the torture The Security Service has identified another Russian occupier who is involved in mass torture of prisoners of war and civilians in the temporarily captured part of the Zaporizhzhia region. The perpetrator is Colonel Zelimkhan Agmerzoyev, the commander of the 3rd company of the police regiment of the federal department of extra-departmental protection of the Russian Guard troops in the Chechen Republic. After the capture of the Melitopol district, he formed and led punitive squads that carried out repressions on the territory of the community. On Agmerzoev's orders, his subordinates brutally tortured Ukrainian prisoners of war and civilians in the occupied settlements. At the same time, during the torture, he personally called the close relatives of the victims and demanded money from them for stopping the physical abuse of captured and kidnapped people. It is documented that Agmerzoyev demanded 500,000 hryvnias from the wife of a military soldier who was captured by the Rashists during the fighting on the southern front. In case of non-payment of money, the occupier threatened to maim and kill the Ukrainian prisoner. In addition, the suspect demanded 20,000 US dollars from relatives of the two kidnapped residents of the district. For this amount, he "guaranteed" to stop the abuse and let the victims go home. On the basis of the collected evidence, the investigators of the Security Service notified Agmerzoev of the suspicion under Part 2 of Art. 28 and Part 1 of Art. 438 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine (violation of the laws and customs of war, committed by a group of persons according to a prior conspiracy). Complex measures are currently underway to bring him to justice for crimes against Ukraine. The perpetrator will be found and punished regardless of the time and place of his stay. The investigation was conducted by SBU employees in the Zaporizhzhia region under the procedural guidance of the regional prosecutor's office. https://t.me/SBUkr/9802 https://evocation.info/en/zelimhan-agmerzoev/ |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 7:49:55 AM EDT
[#39]
  
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:06:39 AM EDT
[#40]
“13th”-
The General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces reported details of the conscription of citizens for military service: - 1) there are no plans to carry out additional mobilization; - 2) all conscripts will be sent to perform military service on the territory of the Russian Federation; - 3) conscripted military personnel will not be sent to the deployment points of the RF Armed Forces in new regions or to participate there in carrying out the tasks of the Northern Military District; - 4) to carry out combat missions there are enough people willing to serve under a contract and who have entered into contracts with the RF Armed Forces, as well as volunteers. Perhaps I will comment on the points in order: 1. Grandma said in two. 2. Belgorod, Bryansk and Kursk regions are also the territory of the Russian Federation, and there are conscripts on the border, they have losses, there are wounded and killed. And in general, the LDPR and part of the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions were also accepted into Russia. 3. Belgorod, Bryansk and Kursk regions are not new regions, in case someone forgot. 4. Aren’t these the same conscripts who signed contracts and were forced to sign contracts? https://t.me/Separ13_13/19688 Someone else would do all this as it should be. Half of the employees of the Wagner PMC do not have the status of a combat veteran, I am silent about the Donbass volunteers (20)14-15. Because of this, pop artists who sang a song in Khmeimim (Syria) have this status, and upon returning to their homeland received all the benefits, and some even medals. Is this what they call justice? Or there are those on the ground who completely ignore orders from above. Read accomplices of the enemy. https://t.me/Separ13_13/19702 |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:22:30 AM EDT
[#41]
🇨🇳Xi Jinping said that "no force will stop the return of Taiwan to Chinese control"
He said this at a festive reception in Beijing on the occasion of the 74th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China cites. "Achieving the complete reunification of the Motherland is the aspiration of the people, the trend of the times and a historical necessity and cannot be stopped by any force." https://t.me/newspn/68253 https://www.wionews.com/world/xi-claims-complete-reunification-of-china-cannot-be-stopped-by-any-force-640628 |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:29:41 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: You should get up to speed beyond ARF level conventional wisdom regarding Ukraine, China and Russia. China is (well, was) in Ukraine deep with Belt and Road and many other investments and Ukraine was one of the top external weapons suppliers to China, particularly with advanced stuff that Russia was reluctant to provide because despite all the buddy-buddy we see in the news they see China as a threat. That’s all fine, every nation has its own interests and needs to watch out for itself, my point is that China is much more on the fence with regard to Ukraine than western media and usual narrative on ARF tend to believe. A while back I said and still believe that we could see China broker a ceasefire or peace deal that ends this war. They have a stake in and are invested in and are politically close with Russia and Ukraine. China is asshorr but they probably can/will influence the eventual peace settlements. Because if China starts overtly helping Russia, this war can go on for a very long time. Hopefully they stay out!! |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:35:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Like they aren’t already play fuck fuck games with the Baltics and several other NATO/former Soviet republics. First they try to flood with propaganda and narrative, precisely like “Russia will never invade Estonia, promise, really!” At the same time they are buying off and compromising key political figures, worming their gas/oil deals into exclusive contracts and pipelines. Basically all the soft invasion tactics. Get some puppet elected by various means. Then special laws passed to protect Russian interests, companies, and Russian speakers and church. Finally manufacture conflict and get invited to send Russian troops to protect Russian interests. Have armed Russian secure elections on referendum to join with Russia. Up until 2022 even Zelensky thought the Russians wouldn’t invade fully. Nor did the West until Dec/Jan. No, the Russians would never invade a NATO country. Until they are invited to, or are “forced to intervene to protect Russians in xxxx.” All excellent and true points. All the brave talk about "Russia cant invade anyone, they suck" forgets all the brave Ukrainians who have died to make that happen. Just for that alone they deserve our full assistance. |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:49:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948647580638793799/1157254739055099934/-___-________-8131618.png?width=454&height=560 I can hear all the GD tears now...."we are the gays?..." |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:55:45 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948647580638793799/1157254739055099934/-___-________-8131618.png?width=454&height=560 
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Posted: 9/29/2023 8:58:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: China is asshorr but they probably can/will influence the eventual peace settlements. Because if China starts overtly helping Russia, this war can go on for a very long time. Hopefully they stay out!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By bikedamon: You should get up to speed beyond ARF level conventional wisdom regarding Ukraine, China and Russia. China is (well, was) in Ukraine deep with Belt and Road and many other investments and Ukraine was one of the top external weapons suppliers to China, particularly with advanced stuff that Russia was reluctant to provide because despite all the buddy-buddy we see in the news they see China as a threat. That’s all fine, every nation has its own interests and needs to watch out for itself, my point is that China is much more on the fence with regard to Ukraine than western media and usual narrative on ARF tend to believe. A while back I said and still believe that we could see China broker a ceasefire or peace deal that ends this war. They have a stake in and are invested in and are politically close with Russia and Ukraine. China is asshorr but they probably can/will influence the eventual peace settlements. Because if China starts overtly helping Russia, this war can go on for a very long time. Hopefully they stay out!! I don't think China will overtly or covertly help Russia. I'm sure there are plenty of Chinese-produced munitions already rolling around Russia (literally, for lack of pallets) from the decades of their quasi-alignment, but I'd be very surprised if we see actual, real military resupply or arms sales happen. China is too invested in Ukraine in multiple ways and they want Russia weak. They want the West weak too, and the longer this all goes on the more the West arms production mobilizes, so I don't think they want it to drag out either. |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:00:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynia_ Good movie, a tough watch. Both sides have been trying to put it behind them for a while now and acknowledgement is part of that process. Russia is exploiting the pain. It happened between many many ethnic groups in the region. It never ceases to amaze me how people can commit genocide on each other - throughout all of human history - for the slightest perceived differences. It always seems to happen between peoples who are very close to each other ethnically. |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:01:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Granit? This is Sky Rambo. Hold fire! Hold fire! Damn you bastards, I’m gonna shove those abacus beads up your ass! You are shooting at me! Hold fire! No no no! Don’t “Fire!” Granit, damn you MF!!!!!!! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_4018-2969829.jpg Pilot died in the plane.
Wow, and an Su-35 too!! Guess it was good Russia recieved that recent batch of 6 during an entire year of manufacturing.
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:03:27 AM EDT
[#49]
 ???????? ??? ????????: ?? ????????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????????? ?????????? ???????? (SUBS) |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:09:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Who gets to claim the Su-35 kill ?
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