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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 4945 of 5592)
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Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:24:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:27:20 AM EDT
[#2]
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This clocks with another article that was posted a couple weeks ago. Russia's main, workhorse artillery is the 122mm and 152mm. They are depleting both tubes and shells, spending both faster than they can be produced. That's why the bigger SPGs are getting hit more frequently, they're being brought within range to make up the lack of the others.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:39:56 AM EDT
[#3]


Ukrainian Krab SPG with anti drone cage.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:46:28 AM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By Prime:
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Russia is rotten to the core, they destroy themselves more than any one else
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:10:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Saltwater-Hillbilly] [#5]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

This clocks with another article that was posted a couple weeks ago. Russia's main, workhorse artillery is the 122mm and 152mm. They are depleting both tubes and shells, spending both faster than they can be produced. That's why the bigger SPGs are getting hit more frequently, they're being brought within range to make up the lack of the others.
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

This clocks with another article that was posted a couple weeks ago. Russia's main, workhorse artillery is the 122mm and 152mm. They are depleting both tubes and shells, spending both faster than they can be produced. That's why the bigger SPGs are getting hit more frequently, they're being brought within range to make up the lack of the others.


It sounds like the issue is tubes; the "Russian Way of War" requires heavy use of artillery for both offensive and defensive actions, and they have probably used up their tubes since we see them pulling tubes from "deep storage" vehicles.  I would bet the "salvaged" tubes are not in the greatest shape, considering what we have seen of Russian storage methods.  Also, on a modern battlefield, you cannot realistically sustain both constant mass and mobility of fires to avoid counterfire/interdiction simultaneously.  Also, as tubes wear, you have to advance you fires closer to the front to get the same effects.  Mining the shit out of your rear areas and forcing your forward artillery assets to move along established routes to predictable firing points with predictable resupply routes doesn't help matters either!
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:19:30 PM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By 4xGM300m:
https://i.imgur.com/pWF2oRG.jpg

Ukrainian Krab SPG with anti drone cage.
View Quote



Cope cages have come full circle lol

At least they aren't supposed to stop a javelin.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:31:13 PM EDT
[#7]
The Artillery Is Never Ending - Former US Marine Wounded Fighting In Ukrainian Legion Interview

The Artillery Is Never Ending - Former US Marine Wounded Fighting In Ukrainian Legion Interview
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:44:47 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

Good historical perspective. Ukraine in 1941-45 needs to be judged with the circumstances and facts of 1941-45 and NOT 2023. I cannot think of too many nations that were squeaky clean in WWII and to pick one country to condemn while others were doing the same or worse is dishonest.
View Quote

I agree. There were no bloodless hands in that war.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:50:17 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By SheltiePimp:
The Artillery Is Never Ending - Former US Marine Wounded Fighting In Ukrainian Legion Interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJaQayOfrbg
View Quote


awesome vid.   thanks for posting.

incredible to hear a first-hand American experience
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:56:58 PM EDT
[#10]
I've been very busy lately, but here's the recent War on the Rocks interview with Michael Kofman about the state of the Ukrainian offensive and Zelensky's visit to Washington.

Key takeaways:

. Ukrainian progress south of Bakhmut is notable. It'll be interesting to see if they can take the high ground around Kurdymivka.

. There's been a renewed Ukrainian push towards Verbove, which is the linchpin of Russian defenses in the area. It's currently being held by VDV elements from the 7th and 76th divisions. There's a debate in the community about whether Russia has enough forces to hold, considering their deployment of so many strategic reserves in the area.

. Calls the Ukrainian advances beyond the 2nd Surovikin line is a "breach" not a breakthrough, since the Russian defense is being pressed but not collapsing.

. He goes into a discussion about how to define a breakthrough vs a breach, says he tends to be conservative about it. Troops don't like it when you claim victory on their behalf, or declare they've broken enemy lines when they aren't there yet. Also misleading to the public.

. To consider it a breakthrough, he would like to see Ukrainian mechanized/motorized units operating behind the line largely uncontested and see significant withdrawals of Russian forces, not just 100m at a time. It entails a sense of momentum.

. Kofman: "I wanna be optimistic about this, I think Ukrainian forces are widening a breach through this line of defense that they hope to turn into a breakthrough." It remains to be seen if Ukrainians can pick up the pace or if the current (slow) pace of advance will continue up to the Winter or through the Winter.

. Current assessment of the offensive: Ukrainian forces have penetrated the first Russian line of defense and in some places the second line of defense, causing a breach not a breakthrough of Russian lines though it might be trending in that direction.

. Q: This offensive may continue indefinitely at the current pace, how do you judge its success if that happens? A: analysts need to bound and judge an offensive based on their own framework, it's rare that offensives are announced to be over. If the Ukrainian objective is to continue pressing Russian forces going into the Winter, and also through the Winter then the intensity of fighting might eventually decline to a level which can be sustained through the Winter, which will make it challenging for analysts to determine when to call the offensive over or not. Kofman clarifies that he doesn't see it this way, he will judge the offensive based on the goals it set for itself: namely the maximalist goal of reaching the Azov coast and capture of Melitopol as well as the minimalist goal of reaching Tokmak.

. If Ukrainian forces are able to reach Tokmak he would consider the offensive a qualified success. Even if they don't, it could still be considered a success depending on the damage they are able to inflict on Russian forces vs what they themselves suffered.

. Kofman thinks Ukraine likely has a positive ratio of casualties and equipment destroyed in this offensive. He also thinks Ukraine likely has the ammunition available to continue the offensive into or through the Winter, though he's unsure about Ukrainian force availability to continue the offensive that long. He thinks the Ukrainian military is aiming to keep the initiative at least into the Winter.

. He thinks Ukraine is able to rotate their forces launching attacks in Zaporizhzhia adequately, but its unclear what the state of Ukrainian assault forces are, which is different from the number of brigades Ukraine has available on paper.

. Weather won't impact the offensive if it continues at the current pace, but if Ukrainians are hoping for a breakthrough, that would be affected since vehicles are required for higher pace of movement. If Ukraine doesn't achieve a breakthrough, it will be a very long slog to Tokmak.

. Goal of Zelensky's visit was to advocate for the $24b supplemental aid package to Ukraine stuck in Congress. Kofman thinks that those in Washington who hoped Ukraine's offensive would put them in a superior negotiating position have abandoned these hopes and people are starting to wake up to the fact that this will be a long war and that all the potential opportunities to end the war more quickly have been missed. Ukraine will need Western investment in their domestic equipment production and maintenance facilities, and increased Western training support to enable them to reconstitute their forces.

. Long periods of heavy attritional fighting is going to become necessary to put pressure on Russian forces and prevent them from being able to go on the offensive, and Ukraine will need Western support to be able to do this.

. Kofman hopes that key decisionmakers are finally coming to the realization that this is a long war and it will continue for a long time, and that Ukraine needs longterm commitments and investments to keep up the fight.

. Without another round of mobilization Kofman doesn't think Russia will be able to go on the offensive again.

. Kofman differentiated between Ukrainian Intelligence Service drone campaign and the military cruise missiles strike campaign. He thinks the GUR campaign is focused on getting Russian domestic audience to wake up to the fact that there's a war going on and especially to convince Russian elites that there's no guarantee of Russian victory and their livelihoods are also on the line. The military cruise missiles campaign is more focused on solid military targets, especially on degrading the Russian Black Sea fleet and potentially forcing them to rebase to Novorossisk. Western support in targeting and ISR and the inherent difficulty in defending Crimea has made this strike campaign quite effective. He also thinks we're actually looking at a number of different parts of the Ukrainian military with different goals and strategies and lumping them altogether.

. Ukrainians are likely to get the M29 cluster munitions variant of ATACMS. It's shorter range, but should prove effective targeting Russian forward helicopter operating bases (like Berdiansk), as well as Russian force concentrations, and time sensitive targets. Unclear how many they will receive/how many are available. Importantly ISR is crucial to how they will be employed, and as is Ukraine has difficulty targeting positions 30+ km behind the line. As such there's an expectation that the West (US) would assist with targeting, but that would require very close coordination that likely doesn't exist at the moment. It's likely only high level commanders will be able to approve the use of these munitions, which will affect what targets they are used on. They'll also be largely ineffective against Russian AD targets since Russia has way more S-300 and S-400 TELs than there are ATACMS.

Overall, it seems like Kofman is actually still somewhat optimistic about the potential for a Ukrainian breakthrough, or barring that, their ability to keep pressing the Russians over the next few months and potentially through the Winter.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:57:47 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By Prime:
The Turkish company Baykar, the manufacturer of combat drones Bayraktar TB2, plans to invest 100 million dollars in three projects in Ukraine.


One of the investments is a factory for the production of drones, the construction of which has already begun.

According to the general director of Baykar Halyuk Bayraktar, the construction of this plant has already begun, and it is planned to complete it within a year and a half.

It will be recalled that earlier the company's general director stated that Baykar has not supplied and will never supply its products to Russia , as it supports the sovereignty of Ukraine and its struggle for independence.

As "Pryamiy" reported, the Turkish company Baykar Makina highly appreciates the skills of the Ukrainian military in the use of Bayraktar TB2 combat drones.

Meanwhile, the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, Dmytro Peskov, threatened to "demilitarize" the Turkish drone production plant Bayraktar after it is built in Ukraine.

View Quote

That is a very stand up statement by the Turkish company. And huge boon to Ukraine to get a modern weapons factory built so soon. Fantastic!


Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:58:41 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Last year GD and Douglas Macgregor's were certain I would freeze to death last winter.
After that didn't happen the talk switched to that I would freeze to death this comming winter.

Well the heating season is starting about now and gas reserves are as near as possible to 100% (96% full there is always a bit of excess room needed).

So even under the most extreme winter nothing much will happen. The Russian cutoff was a shock to the system but at the same time it's a one trick pony
     
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/211087/Webopname_30-9-2023_13132_www_energiever-2970939.jpg
View Quote

That’s great to hear. Well done Europe!

Link Posted: 9/30/2023 1:02:32 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By Prime:
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That’s some sensitive detection method Russia has going there. Able to detect an 80% aberration! No wonder they can’t get ships repaired. I thought it was lack of skilled workers. But it’s the funds are stolen. That is brazen!
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 1:05:58 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
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IDK if you remember. But back in the day during a Riot Squad thread lull the topic turned to war and how the marines were getting rid of tanks. I tried to tell everyone then, that UAV's have completely changed the battlefield and PGM's have improved the way we fight. A modern day Pacific campaign wouldn't look anything like WW2
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 1:26:37 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By Prime:
Political opposition to the S-300 donation from Bulgaria


Our country received a refusal to repair the S-300 anti-aircraft missiles even before the start of the war in Ukraine. Defense Minister Todor Tagarev explained this to NOVA . According to him, the Ministry of Defense is ready to implement the decision of the National Assembly to send a new aid package to Ukraine. In parallel, the authorities are starting a revision of the country's defense policy.  After the decision of the deputies for a new tranche of military aid for Kiev , the Minister of Defense responded to the criticism of the opposition in the parliament. According to him, the defective missiles for S-300 complexes are unusable and have no chance of repair.

"Attempts have been made to restore their operability, these attempts have failed, as for decades we have been relying on insurance from the Russian Federation alone . The refusal to work on these missiles was before the war began. The relevant Russian company explained, that they can't do what we would like, and we don't have the potential to deal with their recovery ourselves," Tagarev said.

At the same time, the Minister of Defense expressed hope that in the last week before the vacation, the parliament will give the green light for the purchase of 198 Stryker combat vehicles. As the assurances are that the American equipment will come to us with full equipment.

" Our intention is not to acquire machines with wheels and a cannon , but the complete set of communications, combat control systems, ammunition, simulators for training. The package is quite complete and will allow the formation of three battalion groups," explained Tagarev.

And because of the changing geopolitical situation and the military actions in the vicinity, the government is rolling up its sleeves and starting a review of the country's defense policy. The Defense Commission approved the shipment of defective missiles to Ukraine. According to him, the preliminary review began in 2019


https://dariknews.bg/novini/bylgariia/tagarev-za-s-300-bylgariia-e-poluchila-otkaz-za-remont-na-raketite-oshte-predi-vojnata-v-ukrajna-2361162

View Quote

Suddenly all Russian missiles outside Russia were declared inoperable…by Russia.

I don’t think Ukraine will have any problems “repairing” them.  But it unintentionally creates the perfect excuse to donate them to Ukraine. 😁
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 1:52:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood] [#16]



I hope their range will clobber many dozens of Russian SPGs and 152s. Maybe a few T-55s for dessert.

Link Posted: 9/30/2023 1:54:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Did we ever get the big announcement Zelensky was going to make?
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 1:56:30 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By RockNwood:

That's some sensitive detection method Russia has going there. Able to detect an 80% aberration! No wonder they can't get ships repaired. I thought it was lack of skilled workers. But it's the funds are stolen. That is brazen!
View Quote
It's endemic to their culture on all levels.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:02:21 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By theskuh:
Did we ever get the big announcement Zelensky was going to make?
View Quote


I think it was the announcement that Ukraine wants to become a defense production powerhouse and has something like 30 countries signed on.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:02:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:
I've been very busy lately, but here's the recent War on the Rocks interview with Michael Kofman about the state of the Ukrainian offensive and Zelensky's visit to Washington.

Key takeaways:

. Ukrainian progress south of Bakhmut is notable. It'll be interesting to see if they can take the high ground around Kurdymivka.

. There's been a renewed Ukrainian push towards Verbove, which is the linchpin of Russian defenses in the area. It's currently being held by VDV elements from the 7th and 76th divisions. There's a debate in the community about whether Russia has enough forces to hold, considering their deployment of so many strategic reserves in the area.

. Calls the Ukrainian advances beyond the 2nd Surovikin line is a "breach" not a breakthrough, since the Russian defense is being pressed but not collapsing.

. He goes into a discussion about how to define a breakthrough vs a breach, says he tends to be conservative about it. Troops don't like it when you claim victory on their behalf, or declare they've broken enemy lines when they aren't there yet. Also misleading to the public.

. To consider it a breakthrough, he would like to see Ukrainian mechanized/motorized units operating behind the line largely uncontested and see significant withdrawals of Russian forces, not just 100m at a time. It entails a sense of momentum.

. Kofman: "I wanna be optimistic about this, I think Ukrainian forces are widening a breach through this line of defense that they hope to turn into a breakthrough." It remains to be seen if Ukrainians can pick up the pace or if the current (slow) pace of advance will continue up to the Winter or through the Winter.

. Current assessment of the offensive: Ukrainian forces have penetrated the first Russian line of defense and in some places the second line of defense, causing a breach not a breakthrough of Russian lines though it might be trending in that direction.

. Q: This offensive may continue indefinitely at the current pace, how do you judge its success if that happens? A: analysts need to bound and judge an offensive based on their own framework, it's rare that offensives are announced to be over. If the Ukrainian objective is to continue pressing Russian forces going into the Winter, and also through the Winter then the intensity of fighting might eventually decline to a level which can be sustained through the Winter, which will make it challenging for analysts to determine when to call the offensive over or not. Kofman clarifies that he doesn't see it this way, he will judge the offensive based on the goals it set for itself: namely the maximalist goal of reaching the Azov coast and capture of Melitopol as well as the minimalist goal of reaching Tokmak.

. If Ukrainian forces are able to reach Tokmak he would consider the offensive a qualified success. Even if they don't, it could still be considered a success depending on the damage they are able to inflict on Russian forces vs what they themselves suffered.

. Kofman thinks Ukraine likely has a positive ratio of casualties and equipment destroyed in this offensive. He also thinks Ukraine likely has the ammunition available to continue the offensive into or through the Winter, though he's unsure about Ukrainian force availability to continue the offensive that long. He thinks the Ukrainian military is aiming to keep the initiative at least into the Winter.

. He thinks Ukraine is able to rotate their forces launching attacks in Zaporizhzhia adequately, but its unclear what the state of Ukrainian assault forces are, which is different from the number of brigades Ukraine has available on paper.

. Weather won't impact the offensive if it continues at the current pace, but if Ukrainians are hoping for a breakthrough, that would be affected since vehicles are required for higher pace of movement. If Ukraine doesn't achieve a breakthrough, it will be a very long slog to Tokmak.

. Goal of Zelensky's visit was to advocate for the $24b supplemental aid package to Ukraine stuck in Congress. Kofman thinks that those in Washington who hoped Ukraine's offensive would put them in a superior negotiating position have abandoned these hopes and people are starting to wake up to the fact that this will be a long war and that all the potential opportunities to end the war more quickly have been missed. Ukraine will need Western investment in their domestic equipment production and maintenance facilities, and increased Western training support to enable them to reconstitute their forces.

. Long periods of heavy attritional fighting is going to become necessary to put pressure on Russian forces and prevent them from being able to go on the offensive, and Ukraine will need Western support to be able to do this.

. Kofman hopes that key decisionmakers are finally coming to the realization that this is a long war and it will continue for a long time, and that Ukraine needs longterm commitments and investments to keep up the fight.

. Without another round of mobilization Kofman doesn't think Russia will be able to go on the offensive again.

. Kofman differentiated between Ukrainian Intelligence Service drone campaign and the military cruise missiles strike campaign. He thinks the GUR campaign is focused on getting Russian domestic audience to wake up to the fact that there's a war going on and especially to convince Russian elites that there's no guarantee of Russian victory and their livelihoods are also on the line. The military cruise missiles campaign is more focused on solid military targets, especially on degrading the Russian Black Sea fleet and potentially forcing them to rebase to Novorossisk. Western support in targeting and ISR and the inherent difficulty in defending Crimea has made this strike campaign quite effective. He also thinks we're actually looking at a number of different parts of the Ukrainian military with different goals and strategies and lumping them altogether.

. Ukrainians are likely to get the M29 cluster munitions variant of ATACMS. It's shorter range, but should prove effective targeting Russian forward helicopter operating bases (like Berdiansk), as well as Russian force concentrations, and time sensitive targets. Unclear how many they will receive/how many are available. Importantly ISR is crucial to how they will be employed, and as is Ukraine has difficulty targeting positions 30+ km behind the line. As such there's an expectation that the West (US) would assist with targeting, but that would require very close coordination that likely doesn't exist at the moment. It's likely only high level commanders will be able to approve the use of these munitions, which will affect what targets they are used on. They'll also be largely ineffective against Russian AD targets since Russia has way more S-300 and S-400 TELs than there are ATACMS.

Overall, it seems like Kofman is actually still somewhat optimistic about the potential for a Ukrainian breakthrough, or barring that, their ability to keep pressing the Russians over the next few months and potentially through the Winter.
View Quote

Thanks for the summary.

I don't watch most of the videos posted here, just don't have the time, so I appreciate synopses or summaries.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:04:52 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By JohnnyC:


I think it was the announcement that Ukraine wants to become a defense production powerhouse and has something like 30 countries signed on.
View Quote

thanks
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:06:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Zelensky is very excited about this defense industry forum and the follow-on agreements. Within a couple of years they could be really ramping up production of drones, missiles and armor.

Our country will become one of the key global producers of weapons and defense systems.

Our new format with defense companies is the Defense Industries Alliance, which as of this evening already has 38 participating companies. They represent 19 countries of the world. These are the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Canada, Bulgaria, Australia, Belgium, our Baltic friends Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, as well as the Czech Republic, North Macedonia, Slovakia, Spain, Croatia and Finland.

Plus, our manufacturers signed 20 documents with partner companies at the Forum today. Agreements, memoranda... Each such document then becomes a new production or strengthening of existing cooperation.

In general, more than 250 companies, including dozens of Ukrainian companies, took part in our Defense Industries Forum - and this is only the first such Forum.

Our country will become one of the key global producers of weapons and defense systems. And this is no longer just an ambition or a perspective, it is a potential that has begun to be realized. I thank everyone whose work has resulted in such results for Ukraine!
View Quote



Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:07:31 PM EDT
[#23]
It is reported that the DRG consisting of 50 people entered the Bryansk region. There is a battle going on. Guys, drg is 2-5 people. 50 people is a half-company, not a DRG; this is an invasion, not sabotage.

ZHIVOVZ

https://t.me/zhivoff/11112



Even without knowing what exactly is happening in the Bryansk region, I can say why this is happening.

1. I’m almost sure that there are 1.5 soldiers per kilometer of front.
2. There are no surveillance equipment or drones.
3. There are no or almost no operational weapons: mortars, anti-aircraft guns, etc.

Low density of drugs, lack of technical equipment and means of destruction.

In some areas, these problems were eliminated at the expense of competent commanders, and there crests are afraid to even look towards the border.

ZHIVOVZ

https://t.me/zhivoff/11113


Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:07:48 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By theskuh:
Did we ever get the big announcement Zelensky was going to make?
View Quote

I assume it is the defense forum. I was hoping for Barbarossa Part Deux. But the industry announcements seem to be it.

Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:15:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnnyC:


I think it was the announcement that Ukraine wants to become a defense production powerhouse and has something like 30 countries signed on.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Originally Posted By theskuh:
Did we ever get the big announcement Zelensky was going to make?


I think it was the announcement that Ukraine wants to become a defense production powerhouse and has something like 30 countries signed on.

I wonder how many European conglomerates will regret their govts sending arms to Ukraine.


Oh well it was bound to happen, they would be smart to target all the Russian customers and stay away from the bigger ones.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:20:13 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By 4xGM300m:
https://i.imgur.com/pWF2oRG.jpg

Ukrainian Krab SPG with anti drone cage.
View Quote

Dang, looks pretty professional. Not like something some private with welding skills would Jerry rig together.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:23:33 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Russia is rotten to the core, they destroy themselves more than any one else
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Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By Prime:

Russia is rotten to the core, they destroy themselves more than any one else

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:28:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gudabeg] [#28]
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.
View Quote


Yep.

Watching GD and the GOP throughout this whole war has been a lesson in not putting your hopes in princes. Somehow they've decided that "America First" means running to the left of Obama on foreign policy and putting Russia's interests before our own.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:31:13 PM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By Prime:

Russia is rotten to the core, they destroy themselves more than any one else

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.


Those “true patriots” tend to hate America first and foremost and excuse the despots of the world.

Enlightening is t it?
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:32:42 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By Bama_Rebel:

IDK if you remember. But back in the day during a Riot Squad thread lull the topic turned to war and how the marines were getting rid of tanks. I tried to tell everyone then, that UAV's have completely changed the battlefield and PGM's have improved the way we fight. A modern day Pacific campaign wouldn't look anything like WW2
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Originally Posted By Bama_Rebel:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

IDK if you remember. But back in the day during a Riot Squad thread lull the topic turned to war and how the marines were getting rid of tanks. I tried to tell everyone then, that UAV's have completely changed the battlefield and PGM's have improved the way we fight. A modern day Pacific campaign wouldn't look anything like WW2


Oh yeah, I do remember that.  And I think you're right, a modern Pacific campaign would not look like the WW2 ones.  Cruise missiles, cruise missiles everywhere!  
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:35:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:39:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Charging_Handle] [#32]
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Originally Posted By theskuh:
Did we ever get the big announcement Zelensky was going to make?
View Quote


I think the big announcement was all the western defense companies that want to build military equipment in Ukraine going forward.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:43:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest] [#33]

   📍22:05 — Odesa
📍22:20 — Kherson / Mykolayiv
📍23:16 — Uman
📍23:35-00:15 — Khmelnytskyi
📍00:10-02:00 — Vinnytsia

The time intervals on the map are approximate since Shahed drones often follow the same path at different times, reaching geographical points several times in a row. Additionally, we were unable to obtain data for all drones involved in the attack.

Ukrainian defense forces successfully intercepted 30 attacking drones, with 20 in Vinnytsia, 6 in Odesa, and 4 in Mykolayiv regions.

The attack caused significant fire to an infrastructure object in the Kalynivska community, prompting swift evacuation measures by local authorities. Later on, the fire was contained, and the evacuation was deemed unnecessary  
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Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:45:06 PM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
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Make surplus ammo cheap again
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:50:46 PM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Just found this Average Ivan Sixpack interview where he says basically this exact same thing about Russia. VIDEO

The empire cannot allow anyone to live better, so every country with a higher standard of living is an enemy.


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Originally Posted By RockNwood:
Originally Posted By RockNwood:
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By Old_Fashioned:
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

News update for you - Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are NATO members now. Maybe you didn't know that. Those are also historically part of Russia, according to Russia.


I’m aware.

Let me repeat. Russia will not invade a NATO country. They know they would be completely destroyed. Ukraine is not a NATO country and Russia wanted it to stay that way. Is what it is. A Soviet civil war. Desantis needs to focus on Americans, which he is trying to do. Not worry about the boogie man we helped create.


Like they aren’t already play fuck fuck games with the Baltics and several other NATO/former Soviet republics.

First they try to flood with propaganda and narrative, precisely like “Russia will never invade Estonia, promise, really!”

At the same time they are buying off and compromising key political figures, worming their gas/oil deals into exclusive contracts and pipelines.  Basically all the soft invasion tactics.

Get some puppet elected by various means. Then special laws passed to protect Russian interests, companies, and Russian speakers and church.

Finally manufacture conflict and get invited to send Russian troops to protect Russian interests. Have armed Russian secure elections on referendum to join with Russia.

Up until 2022 even Zelensky thought the Russians wouldn’t invade fully. Nor did the West until Dec/Jan.

No, the Russians would never invade a NATO country. Until they are invited to, or are “forced to intervene to protect Russians in xxxx.”

Just found this Average Ivan Sixpack interview where he says basically this exact same thing about Russia. VIDEO

The empire cannot allow anyone to live better, so every country with a higher standard of living is an enemy.





"Marxism can be summed up in one way: hate the man who is better off than you are.".
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:54:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:58:40 PM EDT
[#37]
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:
I've been very busy lately, but here's the recent War on the Rocks interview with Michael Kofman about the state of the Ukrainian offensive and Zelensky's visit to Washington.

Key takeaways:

. Ukrainian progress south of Bakhmut is notable. It'll be interesting to see if they can take the high ground around Kurdymivka.

. There's been a renewed Ukrainian push towards Verbove, which is the linchpin of Russian defenses in the area. It's currently being held by VDV elements from the 7th and 76th divisions. There's a debate in the community about whether Russia has enough forces to hold, considering their deployment of so many strategic reserves in the area.

. Calls the Ukrainian advances beyond the 2nd Surovikin line is a "breach" not a breakthrough, since the Russian defense is being pressed but not collapsing.

. He goes into a discussion about how to define a breakthrough vs a breach, says he tends to be conservative about it. Troops don't like it when you claim victory on their behalf, or declare they've broken enemy lines when they aren't there yet. Also misleading to the public.

. To consider it a breakthrough, he would like to see Ukrainian mechanized/motorized units operating behind the line largely uncontested and see significant withdrawals of Russian forces, not just 100m at a time. It entails a sense of momentum.

. Kofman: "I wanna be optimistic about this, I think Ukrainian forces are widening a breach through this line of defense that they hope to turn into a breakthrough." It remains to be seen if Ukrainians can pick up the pace or if the current (slow) pace of advance will continue up to the Winter or through the Winter.

. Current assessment of the offensive: Ukrainian forces have penetrated the first Russian line of defense and in some places the second line of defense, causing a breach not a breakthrough of Russian lines though it might be trending in that direction.

. Q: This offensive may continue indefinitely at the current pace, how do you judge its success if that happens? A: analysts need to bound and judge an offensive based on their own framework, it's rare that offensives are announced to be over. If the Ukrainian objective is to continue pressing Russian forces going into the Winter, and also through the Winter then the intensity of fighting might eventually decline to a level which can be sustained through the Winter, which will make it challenging for analysts to determine when to call the offensive over or not. Kofman clarifies that he doesn't see it this way, he will judge the offensive based on the goals it set for itself: namely the maximalist goal of reaching the Azov coast and capture of Melitopol as well as the minimalist goal of reaching Tokmak.

. If Ukrainian forces are able to reach Tokmak he would consider the offensive a qualified success. Even if they don't, it could still be considered a success depending on the damage they are able to inflict on Russian forces vs what they themselves suffered.

. Kofman thinks Ukraine likely has a positive ratio of casualties and equipment destroyed in this offensive. He also thinks Ukraine likely has the ammunition available to continue the offensive into or through the Winter, though he's unsure about Ukrainian force availability to continue the offensive that long. He thinks the Ukrainian military is aiming to keep the initiative at least into the Winter.

. He thinks Ukraine is able to rotate their forces launching attacks in Zaporizhzhia adequately, but its unclear what the state of Ukrainian assault forces are, which is different from the number of brigades Ukraine has available on paper.

. Weather won't impact the offensive if it continues at the current pace, but if Ukrainians are hoping for a breakthrough, that would be affected since vehicles are required for higher pace of movement. If Ukraine doesn't achieve a breakthrough, it will be a very long slog to Tokmak.

. Goal of Zelensky's visit was to advocate for the $24b supplemental aid package to Ukraine stuck in Congress. Kofman thinks that those in Washington who hoped Ukraine's offensive would put them in a superior negotiating position have abandoned these hopes and people are starting to wake up to the fact that this will be a long war and that all the potential opportunities to end the war more quickly have been missed. Ukraine will need Western investment in their domestic equipment production and maintenance facilities, and increased Western training support to enable them to reconstitute their forces.

. Long periods of heavy attritional fighting is going to become necessary to put pressure on Russian forces and prevent them from being able to go on the offensive, and Ukraine will need Western support to be able to do this.

. Kofman hopes that key decisionmakers are finally coming to the realization that this is a long war and it will continue for a long time, and that Ukraine needs longterm commitments and investments to keep up the fight.

. Without another round of mobilization Kofman doesn't think Russia will be able to go on the offensive again.

. Kofman differentiated between Ukrainian Intelligence Service drone campaign and the military cruise missiles strike campaign. He thinks the GUR campaign is focused on getting Russian domestic audience to wake up to the fact that there's a war going on and especially to convince Russian elites that there's no guarantee of Russian victory and their livelihoods are also on the line. The military cruise missiles campaign is more focused on solid military targets, especially on degrading the Russian Black Sea fleet and potentially forcing them to rebase to Novorossisk. Western support in targeting and ISR and the inherent difficulty in defending Crimea has made this strike campaign quite effective. He also thinks we're actually looking at a number of different parts of the Ukrainian military with different goals and strategies and lumping them altogether.

. Ukrainians are likely to get the M29 cluster munitions variant of ATACMS. It's shorter range, but should prove effective targeting Russian forward helicopter operating bases (like Berdiansk), as well as Russian force concentrations, and time sensitive targets. Unclear how many they will receive/how many are available. Importantly ISR is crucial to how they will be employed, and as is Ukraine has difficulty targeting positions 30+ km behind the line. As such there's an expectation that the West (US) would assist with targeting, but that would require very close coordination that likely doesn't exist at the moment. It's likely only high level commanders will be able to approve the use of these munitions, which will affect what targets they are used on. They'll also be largely ineffective against Russian AD targets since Russia has way more S-300 and S-400 TELs than there are ATACMS.

Overall, it seems like Kofman is actually still somewhat optimistic about the potential for a Ukrainian breakthrough, or barring that, their ability to keep pressing the Russians over the next few months and potentially through the Winter.
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They need those ATACMS yesterday.  Man that could really help Ukraine because they can target those KA-52 bases and make it so Russia has to put them way outside of range for their Choppers to attack Ukrainian assault forces.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:59:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:00:54 PM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By Gudabeg:


Yep.

Watching GD and the GOP throughout this whole war has been a lesson in not putting your hopes in princes. Somehow they've decided that "America First" means running to the left of Obama on foreign policy and putting Russia's interests before our own.
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Originally Posted By Gudabeg:
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.


Yep.

Watching GD and the GOP throughout this whole war has been a lesson in not putting your hopes in princes. Somehow they've decided that "America First" means running to the left of Obama on foreign policy and putting Russia's interests before our own.

Fuck Obama AND his Eunuch.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:01:48 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I can hear all the GD tears now...."we are the gays?..."
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I can hear all the GD tears now...."we are the gays?..."



"I dOn'T cArE iF tHeY'rE gAy As LoNg As ThEy Do ThEiR jObS."


~ GD, but also don't-ask-don't-tell repeal advocates
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:04:24 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:



"Marxism can be summed up in one way: hate the man who is better off than you are.".
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I like this, thanks.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:09:41 PM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:


Sound up.  There's cluster munitions going off, Leopard firing, close small arms zipping past the cameraman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v6H0uERteA
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I heard something that sounded like a crank being turned pretty quickly; was that when the clusters were going off?
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:09:56 PM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By stgdz:

I wonder how many European conglomerates will regret their govts sending arms to Ukraine.


Oh well it was bound to happen, they would be smart to target all the Russian customers and stay away from the bigger ones.
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Originally Posted By stgdz:
Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Originally Posted By theskuh:
Did we ever get the big announcement Zelensky was going to make?


I think it was the announcement that Ukraine wants to become a defense production powerhouse and has something like 30 countries signed on.

I wonder how many European conglomerates will regret their govts sending arms to Ukraine.


Oh well it was bound to happen, they would be smart to target all the Russian customers and stay away from the bigger ones.

Anyone whose weapons haven’t been ”proven” in Ukraine is pretty much fucked in the current market.

Any arms maker, whether Euro or American, would be retarded to try to keep their weapons out of Ukraine.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:12:15 PM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By Prime:

Russia is rotten to the core, they destroy themselves more than any one else

This is something that triggers me. Because GD acts like the US is the most corrupt country ever..... at least when it's a Democrat in the WH. But corruption is far far far worse in much of the rest of the world.

I mean we need to fight corruption here. But we're still Mt Olympus compared to much of the rest of the world.


It's the mirror image of the people who think America is the most racist country in the world.

The last couple generations of Americans have been taught to hate America. The politics of it is a distinction without a difference.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:14:18 PM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
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I guess they must like the Bren. I haven't seen or heard much about the Tavor or the Vulcan since the early days.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:19:46 PM EDT
[#46]
So since the CR passed by the house doesn’t contain any funding for Ukraine is that the end of US support unless something else passes or do the allocations of previously committed equipment continue?
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:19:55 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By burnka871:



Cope cages have come full circle lol

At least they aren't supposed to stop a javelin.
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Originally Posted By burnka871:
Originally Posted By 4xGM300m:
https://i.imgur.com/pWF2oRG.jpg

Ukrainian Krab SPG with anti drone cage.



Cope cages have come full circle lol

At least they aren't supposed to stop a javelin.



Thing needs some new road wheel rubber donuts.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:21:00 PM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:



I heard something that sounded like a crank being turned pretty quickly; was that when the clusters were going off?
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Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:


Sound up.  There's cluster munitions going off, Leopard firing, close small arms zipping past the cameraman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v6H0uERteA



I heard something that sounded like a crank being turned pretty quickly; was that when the clusters were going off?


In the full YouTube video, I hear them at 2:05 to 2:07 in.  Sounds like cluster round in the distance to me.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest] [#49]
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Originally Posted By woozman:
So since the CR passed by the house doesn’t contain any funding for Ukraine is that the end of US support unless something else passes or do the allocations of previously committed equipment continue?
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No, this helps put things in perspective though.











I am not worried, it will all shake out in time.  I just hate the politics of this sort of thing though.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 3:28:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet] [#50]
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Originally Posted By woozman:
So since the CR passed by the house doesn't contain any funding for Ukraine is that the end of US support unless something else passes or do the allocations of previously committed equipment continue?
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I am probably wrong, but I think the "support Ukraine fund" or whatever its called still has like 10-20 billion left in funding. So I think we can keep sending weapons for a little bit yet.

It is very concerning regardless.

I mean, imagine in 1943 and we decide to stop helping Britain or putting troops there.
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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 4945 of 5592)
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