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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:14:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. Some material of certain classification is stored in scifs, but there’s no way everything could be stored in scifs. That don’t make no sense. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:22:37 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that classified material, specifically SECRET and above is so controlled is what makes the things Klinton (and maybe Trump and now Biden) did with classified material so unfathomable to anyone who knows how “the system” is supposed to work. Yes, classified is stored in a “library”; as others have said, called a SCIF. Every SCIF I have been in had: 1. You had to be cleared/authorized to enter. 2. Custodian monitoring who went in/out. 3. Couldn’t take any other material (writing, recording, cell phone, etc.) with you; those were stored in a container outside. 4. No such materials (writing, recording, etc.) in the SCIF, either. 5. One had to be under Courier Orders (i.e. specific authorization to take classified out of the SCIF). 6. Designated “containers”/carriers for transporting classified. 7. Material removed had to be specifically logged in/out by type, format, etc. So when one hears about Klinton sending or having someone send classified to the fax machine (or printer, whatever) in her home, or her not understanding that the little letters in parens on every line in a document is that line’s classification or them removing the classification banners from classified material and sending it around…it’s unfathomable.@Moof1 “ Yes, classified is stored in a “library”; as others have said, called a SCIF.” Some not all. Tons of secret and confidential material is stored in approved containers in approved spaces outside of scifs. For example: the secret crypto fills for comm gear were stored in an approved safe in our comm platoon shop. The EKMS manager stores crypto in their vault. SIPR net computers in authorized areas. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:27:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question. Is this information stored in paper form only? Meaning removing it from the scif or wherever and its lost to history never to be seen again? Or is it all digitized / imaged? Normally Id say of course it’s digitzed ! But this is .gov were talking about, It’s all of it. Paper, digital files on computers, external hard drives, CDs, DVDs, comm hardware itself, crypto paper tapes, digital fills in hardware devices for loading comm gear……. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:31:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryLol, I think will do that to my stapler. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:36:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was my unit's CMS custodian (alternate), and courier. There certainly was no "checking out SECRET materials" for home use. The only particularly memorable moments doing that was when I burnt all the keying material on a cold hilltop in Korea when that EP3 was forced down in China, and traveling across Asia in '02 (by plane, when everyone else had to take a boat)to deliver materials to places in the Philippines and Thailand, via Malaysia. 5 star hotels, satcom (when such was still pretty James Bond). Fun times. I thought I was going todie taking crypto fills over to the little deck on a CH-46 in a fucking horrendous storm for that p3 emergency destruction. We tried to send them over the air but no joy. We did 3 attempts to land and did go arounds. The 4th time I looked at the crew chief and he was shaking his head. We landed so hard I thought they broke the helo.  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:43:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Don’t get me going on Department of State’s classified material handling.
Holy fack it was a nightmare.  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:43:35 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and that brings up the issue of "over-classification." things getting stamped secret or classified just because someone wants to limit access to the info, not because it's actually sensitive It is done, but it is illegal to do so. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:43:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro, where's your SECRET//NOFORN stapler!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:52:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that classified material, specifically SECRET and above is so controlled is what makes the things Klinton (and maybe Trump and now Biden) did with classified material so unfathomable to anyone who knows how “the system” is supposed to work. Yes, classified is stored in a “library”; as others have said, called a SCIF. Every SCIF I have been in had: 1. You had to be cleared/authorized to enter. 2. Custodian monitoring who went in/out. 3. Couldn’t take any other material (writing, recording, cell phone, etc.) with you; those were stored in a container outside. 4. No such materials (writing, recording, etc.) in the SCIF, either. 5. One had to be under Courier Orders (i.e. specific authorization to take classified out of the SCIF). 6. Designated “containers”/carriers for transporting classified. 7. Material removed had to be specifically logged in/out by type, format, etc. So when one hears about Klinton sending or having someone send classified to the fax machine (or printer, whatever) in her home, or her not understanding that the little letters in parens on every line in a document is that line’s classification or them removing the classification banners from classified material and sending it around…it’s unfathomable.@Moof1 It is quite fathomable. There are betters. And elites. And then there is us. Had you done what Clinton, Biden, Berger did, you would go to jail. That is because you are not one of the elite. There is a caste system in America now. Two tiers of justice. Those who work from home, and those who move the country. Those with credentials, those without. It affects every facet of our lives now. The sooner we acknowledge that there are two different qualities of people with two different standards of opportunity and justice, the sooner we can make sense of it. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:58:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:01:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. Trumps documents were declassified by himself, which he had the power to do. Biden did not have the power to declassify the documents he potentially mishandled. We're they declassified either through process or did Obama declassify them? If they were not declassified he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:06:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and that brings up the issue of "over-classification." things getting stamped secret or classified just because someone wants to limit access to the info, not because it's actually sensitive |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:56:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, our whole campus houses two SCIFs, both office buildings are SCIFs and even though both facilities are open storage SCIFs, document markings and covers are strictly enforced. There are classification guides, and yes, my badge will get me access to any TS/SCI federal facility in the IC, but even with access, you need to be on the visiting roster or in their local system, and read-on if you do visit a particular program. All the material above CUI will have a declassification date and authority. IMHO, too much shit is classified that isn't necessary, and the shit that's truly necessary becomes a political/bureaucrat magnet. Secret is important, but can be stored in properly rated GSA safes; it's pretty common in just about any military or IC type organization that doesn't use a lot of TS/SCI material. Most organizations just have a smaller SCIF for the TS/SCI stuff or access to the platforms and video conferences. The compartmentalized nature is pretty strict and even inside a SCIF you could have various Specials Access Programs (SAP) or various projects that you are unauthorized to access without that "need to know" and being "read on" to whatever it is (and read-off if departing or leaving that program). For the less hieratical, mishandling the material can be a career ender pretty quick, potentially criminal. Clinton and Biden are both in violation with their handling of classified material. Trump (or any POTUS) is the ultimate declassification authority, whether you like it or not; and even with him saying "I declassify this shit", his staff still needs to follow up on the administrative declassification process. I shit with classified material all time, but flushing classified shit paper isn't authorized Ironically, the NsA has their little wireless no-no teams catch about 15-20 people a day with an unauthorized wireless device; phones, iWatch, fitbit, etc. (there's a big fucking list). First time it's a slap, it gets worse after that. I just leave my phone in the truck to avoid all the bullshit. I've seen a few GS interns fuck up royally with phones going off during a high-side brief  ROCK6 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those must have been little itty bitty SCIFs to not have any pens or paper inside. Entire buildings are SCIFs with open storage of classified material, they have pens, paper, printers, etc. Kharn Yep, our whole campus houses two SCIFs, both office buildings are SCIFs and even though both facilities are open storage SCIFs, document markings and covers are strictly enforced. There are classification guides, and yes, my badge will get me access to any TS/SCI federal facility in the IC, but even with access, you need to be on the visiting roster or in their local system, and read-on if you do visit a particular program. All the material above CUI will have a declassification date and authority. IMHO, too much shit is classified that isn't necessary, and the shit that's truly necessary becomes a political/bureaucrat magnet. Secret is important, but can be stored in properly rated GSA safes; it's pretty common in just about any military or IC type organization that doesn't use a lot of TS/SCI material. Most organizations just have a smaller SCIF for the TS/SCI stuff or access to the platforms and video conferences. The compartmentalized nature is pretty strict and even inside a SCIF you could have various Specials Access Programs (SAP) or various projects that you are unauthorized to access without that "need to know" and being "read on" to whatever it is (and read-off if departing or leaving that program). For the less hieratical, mishandling the material can be a career ender pretty quick, potentially criminal. Clinton and Biden are both in violation with their handling of classified material. Trump (or any POTUS) is the ultimate declassification authority, whether you like it or not; and even with him saying "I declassify this shit", his staff still needs to follow up on the administrative declassification process. Quoted: A bathroom is neither a SCIF or an appropriate container. But if you’re a Clinton you can do it. It says so in the Constitution. I shit with classified material all time, but flushing classified shit paper isn't authorized Ironically, the NsA has their little wireless no-no teams catch about 15-20 people a day with an unauthorized wireless device; phones, iWatch, fitbit, etc. (there's a big fucking list). First time it's a slap, it gets worse after that. I just leave my phone in the truck to avoid all the bullshit. I've seen a few GS interns fuck up royally with phones going off during a high-side brief ROCK6 My favorite was the email to everyone scolding that a new Tesla is not an exception to the phone rule and figure out a different way to lock your car. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:58:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Extremely careless.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:06:53 AM EDT
[#15]
VPOTUS is viewed as a coequal to POTUS in this regard, and as is noted on the ruling on presidential records act is called out as not be covered by legislatively created laws in regard to handling and storage of classified materials.
So not quite as settled and on point when compared to the POTUS but probably overall a nothing burger. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:53:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that classified material, specifically SECRET and above is so controlled is what makes the things Klinton (and maybe Trump and now Biden) did with classified material so unfathomable to anyone who knows how “the system” is supposed to work. Yes, classified is stored in a “library”; as others have said, called a SCIF. Every SCIF I have been in had: 1. You had to be cleared/authorized to enter. 2. Custodian monitoring who went in/out. 3. Couldn’t take any other material (writing, recording, cell phone, etc.) with you; those were stored in a container outside. 4. No such materials (writing, recording, etc.) in the SCIF, either. 5. One had to be under Courier Orders (i.e. specific authorization to take classified out of the SCIF). 6. Designated “containers”/carriers for transporting classified. 7. Material removed had to be specifically logged in/out by type, format, etc. So when one hears about Klinton sending or having someone send classified to the fax machine (or printer, whatever) in her home, or her not understanding that the little letters in parens on every line in a document is that line’s classification or them removing the classification banners from classified material and sending it around…it’s unfathomable.@Moof1 My command had a NIPRNET node put in my our chief of physical security. It had a dedicated small windowless office, the computer equipment and the digital lock safe. You were in there alone with a printer and the classified material. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:57:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My command had a NIPRNET node put in my our chief of physical security. It had a dedicated small windowless office, the computer equipment and the digital lock safe. You were in there alone with a printer and the classified material. Classified on NIPR sounds like a problem. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:58:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote History At my final command we had one classified computer with one classified and labeled hard drive. None of the other 10,000 or so hard drives were labeled. We probably spent $25,000 worth of labor effort to shut down each system in the building to put stickers on everything. Getting the big 1" x 2.5" label on the tiny removable memory cards in our cameras was fun. 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:14:44 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:26:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hell, Confidential can be stored in a cheesy Office Depot filing cabinet or desk drawer as long as it has a "lock." Most people still put it n a GSA approved safe though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. False. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:29:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. The big difference is Joe Biden broke the law as he was the Vice President of the United States when he took those documents 6 years ago; he was not the President then. President Trump did not break the law. Remember the Democrats always falsely accuse you of breaking the law that they the Democrats have already broken. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:34:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Trump did NOT possess “classified” material. He used his authority to declassify the materials he took to Mar a Lago.
Biden DID illegally posses classified material. As Vice President, he did NOT have the authority to declassify such material. The VP has similar authorities for “executive functions,” such as acting on behalf of the President. However, that would never apply to taking classified material home, after he left office. If Obama wants to step in an say, “Oh yeah, I remember declassifying that stuff for Joe…” |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:39:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Classified data should have a short shelf life.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:45:59 AM EDT
[#24]
These days, the good reasons to have paper classified documents are pretty slim. The information lives on computers, in databases, etc. To me, printing classified hints at intentional mishandling.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 8:51:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: VPOTUS is viewed as a coequal to POTUS in this regard, and as is noted on the ruling on presidential records act is called out as not be covered by legislatively created laws in regard to handling and storage of classified materials. So not quite as settled and on point when compared to the POTUS but probably overall a nothing burger. Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:29:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The difference is that the former Vice President couldn't have declassified those documents in his possession. The VP is not a declassifier. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:34:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. This. I kept a ton of secret stuff in a locked file cabinet. Most people have no idea how mundane most a vast majority of the classified stuff is. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:39:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I kept a ton of secret stuff in a locked file cabinet. Most people have no idea how mundane most a vast majority of the classified stuff is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. This. I kept a ton of secret stuff in a locked file cabinet. Most people have no idea how mundane most a vast majority of the classified stuff is. Third sentence is true, but for fucks sake... |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:53:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. EO 13526. Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and the Vice President; PART 3 -- DECLASSIFICATION AND DOWNGRADING Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by: (1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority; (2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority; |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 9:57:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The difference is that the former Vice President couldn't have declassified those documents in his possession. The VP is not a declassifier. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 10:00:29 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 10:05:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These days, the good reasons to have paper classified documents are pretty slim. The information lives on computers, in databases, etc. To me, printing classified hints at intentional mishandling. 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:11:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EO 13526. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. EO 13526. Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and the Vice President; PART 3 -- DECLASSIFICATION AND DOWNGRADING Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by: (1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority; (2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority; The ONLY Classified material that Biden could have declassified, would be material that HE had originally classified as the "Original Classification Authority." He cannot declassify material that was classified by the President or other Agency head that has Original Classification Authority. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 11:17:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is Sandy Berger still in prison?  He's in hell, so yes. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:12:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  99.9% missed that altogether.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:28:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ONLY Classified material that Biden could have declassified, would be material that HE had originally classified as the "Original Classification Authority." He cannot declassify material that was classified by the President or other Agency head that has Original Classification Authority. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. EO 13526. Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and the Vice President; PART 3 -- DECLASSIFICATION AND DOWNGRADING Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by: (1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority; (2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority; The ONLY Classified material that Biden could have declassified, would be material that HE had originally classified as the "Original Classification Authority." He cannot declassify material that was classified by the President or other Agency head that has Original Classification Authority. I can't help but wonder if enough of these scandals will drive a rewrite of EO 1326 with more "clarification" of overarching executive authority. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:33:34 PM EDT
[#37]
I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:34:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:35:38 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:38:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet. https://www.esd.whs.mil/Directives/issuances/dodm/ |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:20:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet. https://www.esd.whs.mil/Directives/issuances/dodm/ There is a difference between dry, government regulations and procedures and what folks actually do, with the latter including much more real world detail. I’ll be alone on my island but I do not think it should be discussed. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:25:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just like when midcaps banging his chonkers, you just gotta double bag it! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In fact, classified material can be sent via USPS. LOL, it is true! |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 1:39:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a difference between dry, government regulations and procedures and what folks actually do, with the latter including much more real world detail. I'll be alone on my island but I do not think it should be discussed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet. https://www.esd.whs.mil/Directives/issuances/dodm/ There is a difference between dry, government regulations and procedures and what folks actually do, with the latter including much more real world detail. I'll be alone on my island but I do not think it should be discussed. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 2:09:38 PM EDT
[#44]
I lock the kids' X-Box controllers in a Classified Carry Bag when I don't want them to play. Is that wrong?
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Posted: 1/11/2023 2:14:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I lock the kids' X-Box controllers in a Classified Carry Bag when I don't want them to play. Is that wrong?  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 2:51:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Meh. If it’s only confidential or secret, it’s hardly classified anyway. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 2:55:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh. If it's only confidential or secret, it's hardly classified anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Meh. If it's only confidential or secret, it's hardly classified anyway. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:02:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. Above secret and open storage equals SCIF. You remember my work environment and I handled Secret daily. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:04:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I kept a ton of secret stuff in a locked file cabinet. Most people have no idea how mundane most a vast majority of the classified stuff is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. This. I kept a ton of secret stuff in a locked file cabinet. Most people have no idea how mundane most a vast majority of the classified stuff is.   
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:05:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question. Is this information stored in paper form only? Meaning removing it from the scif or wherever and its lost to history never to be seen again? Or is it all digitized / imaged? Normally Id say of course it’s digitzed ! But this is .gov were talking about, No There are multiple levels of secure email and internet systems. |
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