User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:03:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work in a steel mill. We have some process automation and modelling people who haven't been to work in a couple years now. If they cannot see visually and sometimes even hear what the equipment is doing and what its doing to the product, then they cannot do their job effectively, and they haven't been doing it effectively. I dont care how the forces look, if you don't also look at the piece shape or surface you are rolling. They should have been let go. They can be replaced by someone without too much burden. If they have been doing their jobs, then everything should be set for processing parameters and controls right now. No unexpected excursions. Sadly the management too afraid to cut some of these people loose. Even to make an example with a few . We can cobble and wreck the rolling mill with you at home, or without you at all. So what exactly are you doing for the company? Go hire some indians for a fifth the price to work remotely. Its not a one size fits all thing like some of you think. And for govt jobs, 99% of the population would get along just fine if most/87% of those jobs were just completely eilimnated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do/Should WFH peeps worry their jobs turn into WFH peeps from overseas taking their jobs? I’m sure they can find a cheaper workforce of all you need is an internet connection. I work in a steel mill. We have some process automation and modelling people who haven't been to work in a couple years now. If they cannot see visually and sometimes even hear what the equipment is doing and what its doing to the product, then they cannot do their job effectively, and they haven't been doing it effectively. I dont care how the forces look, if you don't also look at the piece shape or surface you are rolling. They should have been let go. They can be replaced by someone without too much burden. If they have been doing their jobs, then everything should be set for processing parameters and controls right now. No unexpected excursions. Sadly the management too afraid to cut some of these people loose. Even to make an example with a few . We can cobble and wreck the rolling mill with you at home, or without you at all. So what exactly are you doing for the company? Go hire some indians for a fifth the price to work remotely. Its not a one size fits all thing like some of you think. And for govt jobs, 99% of the population would get along just fine if most/87% of those jobs were just completely eilimnated. There are a lot of jobs in the category of "can't be done remotely" because of the type of work. Unless you have your own shop in your garage, being a machinist is a job you have to have the right equipment for. In my line of work, lots of things can be done remotely. Things that can't be done remotely include wind tunnel tests, flight tests, building flight hardware, and for the most part, working with/mentoring interns is something that's best done on-site especially with "hands on" type activities. Thing is, there is a very high percentage of jobs in the US that are associated with "middlemen" in the supply chain that can (and are) remote working now. That's simply not going to change because it's cheaper for the companies to be that way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:08:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God help us if the workers might have some semblance of balance in their lives. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is what all millennials think working from home is: a way to blend home with work life, with more emphasis with home life. Attention to the kids, play with the dog, leisurely break/meal times. https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/q94/junker46/Screenshot_2023-11-10_9.34.00_AM.png And it's becoming apparent. Employers are not getting the bang for their buck. God help us if the workers might have some semblance of balance in their lives. Again I think it gets back to the workers themselves and the companies that employ them. If the employee is spending their days minding their children instead of getting work done, then their managers should dump them. But there's also a certain amount of professionalism that employees should show. I had a telecon with a lady whose kid was screaming in the background so bad, I couldn't hear what she was saying. I finally had to cut the call short and tell her to call me back at a more convenient time when she could actually work. She got the message. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:09:13 AM EDT
[#3]
I could work at home. Once.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:11:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s already significantly down from what it once was. As metro areas put pressure on large corporations/threaten to remove tax breaks, more people will be going hybrid and then back to the office. Fortune 200 here, senior mgmt- I’ve heard the discussions. Here Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, it isn’t. It’s already significantly down from what it once was. As metro areas put pressure on large corporations/threaten to remove tax breaks, more people will be going hybrid and then back to the office. Fortune 200 here, senior mgmt- I’ve heard the discussions. Here Except that the employers have no leverage now. Its an employee’s market now. The good people will move on to someone who will appreciate their ability and you’ll be left with a bunch of old people and under performers. Commercial real estate apocalypse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:14:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Wanna take a guess at how much time and money I saved this year working remote? 30-50 minute drives and...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 7:49:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that. Everyone's situation is different! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: lol remote work is a fantasy A couple months shy of 4 years now. Seems pretty real to me  Maybe that guy does manual labor? Doing construction work remotely from home is probably tuff to find. I get that. Everyone's situation is different! Try being a retail pharmacist, a grocery cashier, a mechanic, a plumber, an electrician, etc, remote from home. Um yeah, nope. Lots of people got to enjoy working their asses off during Covid, while half the workforce to to remote it. Even the kids got to remote school, which resulted in an no-learning shitshow. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 7:55:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it can be done from home it can be done from India |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:10:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Demographics much? From when will the replacement workers come? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Suck it companies - the labor market is tight and getting tighter. You have no power here ... I’ve seen tight labor markets come and go. Enjoy it while you can because it won’t last long. Demographics much? From when will the replacement workers come? Sure, I know about USA demographics. That's on the USA labor supply side. On the USA labor demand side, employers can reduce demand for USA labor by moving even more work out of the USA. No, that doesn't necessarily mean only India. I've worked with very smart people all over the planet, including China, Japan, Poland, France (smart but lazy), even some in India, and others. You should expect to see far more of that in the future. Seriously. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:17:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why have a building that you have to maintain, clean and pay for? VR, Teams etc has made office cubicles obsolete for office work. And this helps prevent the spread of Covid  Cue the "it's all so tiresome" meme. I'm 100% WFH. They closed the nearest office. I'm seeing more and more of our clients requesting "on site" staffing and the results are predictable. At least in my department you can either have someone who is competent and conscientious, or you can have someone who will come in to the office 3x/week or more. Very rarely will you get both. Certain industries are just made certain ways. There's no advantage (by and large) for knowledge workers. We aren't "shift work" in a factory. You expect me to answer emails and be available 24-7, there's a tradeoff. Certain roles and industries require it. Viva la difference! |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:24:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do/Should WFH peeps worry their jobs turn into WFH peeps from overseas taking their jobs? I’m sure they can find a cheaper workforce of all you need is an internet connection. Feel free to have Bob in India do the needful. When he breaks everything you can pay my emergency rate for me to fix it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:24:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it is, in large part Shit, big businesses have been outsourcing "remote" jobs for the past couple decades. This is all about big blue city revenues because I doubt big corps are going to tell those Pakistani and Indian teleworkers to get back to the office  ROCK6 |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:31:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys are missing the point. The boss isn't coming in to the office either. More and more, there IS no office. Why would an entrepreneur pay for something he doesn't need? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you live close to work you can easily be in the office everyday. This is where living close to work has an advantage over living far away. Of course, if you want to change jobs and still stay close to work you may have to move. Our youngest has an advantage over coworkers by her walking into the office everyday, while other employees are there only 2 or 3 days a week. All other things being equal who does the boss think more highly of? The people that whine about being in the office or the person that is there everyday? You guys are missing the point. The boss isn't coming in to the office either. More and more, there IS no office. Why would an entrepreneur pay for something he doesn't need? In my kid's case that's where the company is at now and she's fine with going into the office. Staying in her one BR apartment all day long would be like sitting in a prison cell. Everyone's situation is different. Every company's situation is different too. As far as business need goes, it's tangible proof that you're a legit company, you have real employees, you know what the F you're doing, you have a steady stream of revenue, etc. How do you show all that to a potential customer if the entire company is "in the cloud"? If all the work you've done is proprietary and can't be shown or talked about, you're sort of counting on them just believing you. Good luck with that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:32:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One female said its cheaper for her to stay at home and take care of kids - than to go to work. But working from home she oversees her two kids. ALL her work can be tracked every hour; so this aint govt work where you can move a mouse every 4 minues. We can track everything all day long and the work gets done. She needs to be either given more work, have her pay cut, or fired if she's doing the same amount of work in 8 hours watching two kids. That, or staying home with kids must not be that hard. Which is it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:42:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wanna take a guess at how much time and money I saved this year working remote? 30-50 minute drives and... https://ktla.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/06/gas.jpg?w=900 About 15 years ago, when gas hit $4/gal I just stopped going into the office. I didn't ask, my boss didn't complain, my coworkers didn't care, the work still got done. Anyway, with a 30-minute commute, and 25 mpg, I saved around $2,000 per year, 250 hours a year, wear and tear on the car and my body. I'll guess your numbers are triple that. It adds up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:42:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... and language barriers, cultural differences (different casts in India for example) different legal and tax issues, and a widely different time zone making collaboration difficult. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Remote work isn't going anywhere for those in the fields that allow it. It helps companies by giving them a larger pool of workers that they would not have normally. Now before anyone says, "well, if it can be done remotely, it can be done by someone in India", while that is true, it's also detrimental to any company as the quality of work diminishes and timelines have to be extended to account for their incompetence. ... and language barriers, cultural differences (different casts in India for example) different legal and tax issues, and a widely different time zone making collaboration difficult. I’ve had cultural and collaboration issues when working with folks on the east coast while I was based in a west coast office. It happens even in CONUS. I went back to a smaller company because people know who you are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:46:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t watch video. But I agree. It’s been proven over and over that the majority of people are more productive at the office. I’m not reading 4 pages of GD insisting they’re the exception to the rule and they’re paid for their mind blah blah blah You should read it. It's a great thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 8:50:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She needs to be either given more work, have her pay cut, or fired if she's doing the same amount of work in 8 hours watching two kids. That, or staying home with kids must not be that hard. Which is it? Depends on the age of the kids, but if school aged, there are plenty of educational (home school) programs that can keep kids busy for hours with a little oversight. It does depend on the work, but where we live, daycare is full; simply not enough of them. My coworker is paying a babysitter $22 an hour to babysit and when she and her husband are at drill once a month, they have to pay on the weekends. They're paying close to $3500 a month for their daughter. For some, it would be cheaper to just stay home with the kids... We can't work from home. Work in a SCIF doing SCIF shit... ROCK6 |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:03:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s always possible. Many places have tried that and have regretted it. Also many places have geographic and citizenship/residency constraints. The remote cat is not going back in the bag. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do/Should WFH peeps worry their jobs turn into WFH peeps from overseas taking their jobs? I’m sure they can find a cheaper workforce of all you need is an internet connection. It’s always possible. Many places have tried that and have regretted it. Also many places have geographic and citizenship/residency constraints. The remote cat is not going back in the bag. My department is completely remote across the industry and there is no reason to go back. No way my position gets replaced by overseas workers. It's too managerial / technical and you need both skills. Not ever gonna be common in India. Also my current company gets state tax breaks the more employees claim they are in their state...so they actively look for people who live somewhat nearby and can claim they work in the same state. And my industry is all in one area of the US, for the most part. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:05:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Yeah, SCIF is a thing. When I worked at Battelle for a year as a contractor, there was no working from home. Everything was done on-site. Hell, I couldn't even take certain documents home to read. Even within the building complex, there were certain buildings and rooms I did not have the authority to enter. The software I worked on was at a lower classification level than the data it processed. I couldn't even enter the room where the code was being tested. One time a problem in testing came up that I had to figure out without being given the data that led to the failure. Now that was a lot of fun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:19:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try being a retail pharmacist, a grocery cashier, a mechanic, a plumber, an electrician, etc, remote from home. Um yeah, nope. Lots of people got to enjoy working their asses off during Covid, while half the workforce to to remote it. Even the kids got to remote school, which resulted in an no-learning shitshow. Don't need as many of them to maintain empty office buildings. Construction and interior work guys are gonna have a lot to do when the city buys the old spaces and makes homeless / illegal housing towers out of them though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:24:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A good portion of those hands-on trades you mention are going to have the opportunity to get out of the shithole cities too. Don't need as many of them to maintain empty office buildings. Construction and interior work guys are gonna have a lot to do when the city buys the old spaces and makes homeless / illegal housing towers out of them though. No, just fuck no.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:24:07 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you live close to work you can easily be in the office everyday. This is where living close to work has an advantage over living far away. Of course, if you want to change jobs and still stay close to work you may have to move. Our youngest has an advantage over coworkers by her walking into the office everyday, while other employees are there only 2 or 3 days a week. All other things being equal who does the boss think more highly of? The people that whine about being in the office or the person that is there everyday? If work slows down the boss will look to fire the least productive employee and yes that could be your daughter even though she drives to the office every day |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:27:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah - how has offshoring IT and call centers been received so far? Universally hated and frequently reversed. AIG is going to be the next company to find out the hard way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do/Should WFH peeps worry their jobs turn into WFH peeps from overseas taking their jobs? I’m sure they can find a cheaper workforce of all you need is an internet connection. Yeah - how has offshoring IT and call centers been received so far? Universally hated and frequently reversed. AIG is going to be the next company to find out the hard way. I finally dumped tmobile and moved five phones over to verizon due to tmobile's shitty "tech" support. The first level of support is the phillipines, level two is india, and both are f'ing clueless At least for now verizon's customer service is based in the US. For now... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:32:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my kid's case that's where the company is at now and she's fine with going into the office. Staying in her one BR apartment all day long would be like sitting in a prison cell. Everyone's situation is different. Every company's situation is different too. As far as business need goes, it's tangible proof that you're a legit company, you have real employees, you know what the F you're doing, you have a steady stream of revenue, etc. How do you show all that to a potential customer if the entire company is "in the cloud"? If all the work you've done is proprietary and can't be shown or talked about, you're sort of counting on them just believing you. Good luck with that. (shrug) You're hung up on the old ways, looks to me. Admittedly, some companies are going to have to stay with them, simply due to the nature of their product. But the truth is that for many products, the whole Covid nonsense proved the job could be done cheaper by not having overhead for an office, and no sensible management is going to go back to that. Hell, even clients can't be bothered to come to your office anymore, not with worldwide business. Everything is done by phone, video conference, etc. because it's faster and more efficient. Why would a client from, say, Wuhan come to your office? He wouldn't. He would look at what you produce and what it costs, talk to you, and make a decision. Typically, if he wants face to face, he wants YOU to come to HIM and sell him. If he requires more handholding than that, if he needs all the trappings of 20th century biz like expensive office building, etc., it's probably easier to not have him as a client, anyway. Let the old school guys service him and work on new biz minded people for growth. This is the direction things are going, and they are not turning around. More efficiency, more speed, less overhead. Going back to the office just because some clingers prefer it is, for many tech workers, like going back to typewriters because the boss uses the sound of the keys as a measure of work. It's stupid and wasteful, and it's just not going to happen. And as for me, I don't need to worry about the need to escape my 1 bedroom apartment because I am a highly skilled professional with lots of options. If my current employer were to suddenly demand I start working in the office, I'd find another employer, same as if they cut my paycheck in half. But they won't, and guess why? Because even the CEO doesn't come in to the office anymore, and the company only maintain a small coworking space. And the reason they do that is because they make more money like that, and the boss gets to live where he wants, too. This is the way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 9:44:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Mehh…I have been working from home office for a couple of decades now. I go out take a walk, run errands etc. My job is in National Account sales and its not unusual for me to be on a Teams call at 6:00 A.M or 8:00 P.M so set hours are difficult.
It’s also not unusual for me to be working early on Sunday mornings or sitting in an airport Sunday night so I can be at a client visit Monday A.M Last year my Team made a metric shit ton of money for our employer in turn the Corporate Suits were able to hit EBITDA targets etc. This also wouldn't be possible without the people who go into the plants day in and day out and make the wares. It is important to recognize that they will never be working remote so there is that. My point being if you have people that are doing the work and performing at an acceptable or higher level they don't need some middle Manager making sure they are not late from break. If you are having productivity issues thats likely rooted elsewhere in other issues. Corporate culture dictates a lot of this but talented, productive people have options and they are successful because they have the ability to balance work and life which leads to healthy attitudes and productivity. My $.02 but what do I know |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who do you build relationships with? The chick at the front desk? Isnt everyone else at home? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This right here. I'm in software dev. I don't have to do my job in an office, especially when my physical office is 750 miles away. I like to visit from time to time and build relationships but day to day is done in my home office. Maybe his family? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 10:42:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Once several layers of management started to realize they were not needed and loss leaders that truly had little purpose or value to a company with WFH employees that did their jobs, WFH was dead. Layered management would rather sink a company financially then lose their own job and not being able to physically ''boss'' people around, they lost meaning in their lives.
I have spent the last couple of years watching MANAGEMENT, not the actual employees doing the work, destroy a very profitable part of the company where I work. If it has grown and profited for 2.5 decades or more, and then starts to lose money when the only difference is what management changed, then management is very likely to blame. And unlike management, I actually talked to the customers and knew what was pissing them off and it was 100% due to management related changes. I can retire any time I want to so IDGAF in some ways but US management is so focused on short term profits that they will completely destroy entire companies and sections to gain it. [And the theft and BS I was seeing from outside contractors doing much of the work and the very likely payoffs and blind eyes of management was staggering, I started documenting it and I got my work in that area cut almost immediately] |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:02:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Was working from home before 2020. There are 8 of us that have our own territories and we each have about 30 sites we visit, handle projects in, and various other things. When we do not need to be at one of those sites, we home office. If they would make us go to an office, it would be counter productive on their end, the closest office is 45min from me and in the NE corner, so it would change the travel distance to my further sites and mean I could stay in hotels for 9 of my sites instead of 3 now.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:02:26 AM EDT
[#29]
I'll never understand GD hate for remote work.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:09:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll never understand GD hate for remote work. The population of the site is aging and the hate for certain things generally reflects that fact. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:12:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fortune 100 here and we are adding close to 400 remote positions next year and transitioning enough employees to shut down 3 offices. Goal is 75% remote by 2027. EDIT Profits and productivity have been steadily increasing since 2020 when all this started. A simple calculation, really. Even if your remote employee is 20% less productive but you save 30% on commercial space and utilities, it makes financial sense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:13:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Impossible for my work, but if it fits with someone and it’s mutually agreeable I don’t see the problem.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:15:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then if it can be done from an office building downtown it can be done from India is also true, right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it can be done from home it can be done from India 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:17:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll never understand GD hate for remote work. Why not? It's just envy, and that's very simple to understand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:19:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The population of the site is aging and the hate for certain things generally reflects that fact. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:20:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not? It's just envy, and that's very simple to understand. Yeah I suppose it could be that simple. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:21:40 AM EDT
[#37]
One of my buddies was a pretty high profile software sales lead. Full remote. I just went on vacation with him where he took no time off and 1-2 calls per day. I realized how little he works.
He was terminated last week. I think a lot of companies are realizing how little some of these remote workers work. Money is tight. Companies are tightening up their budgets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:25:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do/Should WFH peeps worry their jobs turn into WFH peeps from overseas taking their jobs? I'm sure they can find a cheaper workforce of all you need is an internet connection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:26:07 AM EDT
[#39]
This thread is Boomerific.
Remote or hybrid work is the future. Of course not every job can be done remotely, but there are quite a few that can. The biggest resistance I've seen is from the old fuckers that think everyone needs to be in the office just because "that's where the work is". The same old dumbasses that say "if you're on time, you're late." Just. Fucking. Die. Already. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:29:12 AM EDT
[#40]
My job is hands on and requires me to be onsite. There is no way around it. Just unable to do it from home.
I would like to have a remote job, but I enjoy my current job. Pay and benefits are great. I did just apply for a remote job that starts at $20K more, but will require travel about once a month. I am thankful for the job I have now as it allows me to live on my 10 acre homestead in a town of 800. The drive is worth it to not live anywhere close to a city. I hate cities and I love having a farm and job that allows me to do both |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:30:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They shot themselves in the dick. I care not if they bleed out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Urban areas (democrats) are losing their tax revenues They shot themselves in the dick. I care not if they bleed out. SanFran passed a local law a couple of years ago BANNING new buildings from including a cafe'/eatery inside the bldg. Seems the locals didn't want to wade through shit on the sidewalks to get to lunch & ate inside their bldgs. Restaurants complained they were going out of business & the city council passed their law. No doubt tax revenue played a part in that, IMO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:40:05 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can usually tell when I talk to a customer service person who is at home. There is usually no background noise of dozens or hundreds of others talking. It is like talking to a friend on the phone. I can usually tell someone is at home by hearing the dog barking, kids playing/screaming, the worker tending to said kids or dog while talking to me, TV noise in the background, etc. It is like talking to a friend on the phone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:42:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is going to be so thinned out it will almost be nonexistent Managers need to micro manage The middle management class is the one screaming loudest for this. They are no longer needed if the slot above them could manage a few more wfh per capita. My company is absolutely apoplectic about getting the office people back into the office. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Our sales team has always been WFH as well as our marketing folks. We offer the hybrid version or WFH as needed , but the owner is not a huge fan. During the pandemic BS a lot of office work got moved to WFH and a lot of abuse went on. Some people are fine with WFH and many are not so it's not just "micro managing".
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:44:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I suppose it could be that simple. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why not? It's just envy, and that's very simple to understand. Yeah I suppose it could be that simple. Yes there's a lot of stuff that can't be WFH. No one except the boomer/binary brigade brings that up. But there's a lot that can. Honestly most of the companies that were worth are shit had WFH policies well before covid. Covid just forced everyone elses' hand. Pro Tip: If you're a shitty WFH employee you were a shitty in-office employee. Chances are you were the dipshit dragging me down with the neverending "office visits" and "watercooler chats" or were just the neverending "yes man" that didn't produce other than ass kisses. And for those that bitch about having a small house/apartment. A lot of WFH allows you to be anywhere as long as you have a connection. My wife routinely goes to a coffee shop or the library or works in the backyard. As long as she has wifi she's GTG. I'll hit up the bar depending on the meetings and stuff I've got left at the end of the day. I routinely log tons of hours in my car or on the beach. As someone that's worked as a senior analysist in large facility/operations and also helped start up several small tech/aerospace businesses; WFH or the ability to flex/hybrid is AMAZING for cost savings. Real property and leases are giant costs that weigh down operations and were always a major stressor. Reducing my real property overhead while opening up my talent aperture nationwide instead of my immediate geographic area for talent is a win-win for anyone that can take advantage of it. Now I can take that money and put it into IR&D or maybe pick up some more full or part time labor that I couldn't afford because of the other sunk costs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:46:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can usually tell someone is at home by hearing the dog barking, kids playing/screaming, the worker tending to said kids or dog while talking to me, TV noise in the background, etc. It is like talking to a friend on the phone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can usually tell when I talk to a customer service person who is at home. There is usually no background noise of dozens or hundreds of others talking. It is like talking to a friend on the phone. I can usually tell someone is at home by hearing the dog barking, kids playing/screaming, the worker tending to said kids or dog while talking to me, TV noise in the background, etc. It is like talking to a friend on the phone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 11:47:46 AM EDT
[#47]
My employer just tried to implement a “hybrid” schedule on the WFH departments and we had about 23/60 people put in 2 week notices the next day. That mandate was immediately rescinded . It’s not going anywhere .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:11:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you live close to work you can easily be in the office everyday. This is where living close to work has an advantage over living far away. Of course, if you want to change jobs and still stay close to work you may have to move. Our youngest has an advantage over coworkers by her walking into the office everyday, while other employees are there only 2 or 3 days a week. All other things being equal who does the boss think more highly of? The people that whine about being in the office or the person that is there everyday? As the boss, I think most highly of those who deliver the product I ask them to deliver, with high quality, on the timeline I ask of them. Where they do that from is immaterial to me. Results are all that matters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:14:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my buddies was a pretty high profile software sales lead. Full remote. I just went on vacation with him where he took no time off and 1-2 calls per day. I realized how little he works. He was terminated last week. I think a lot of companies are realizing how little some of these remote workers work. Money is tight. Companies are tightening up their budgets. That’s one example, and it’s just as likely your buddy wasn’t doing a very good job. Sales people need to perform; they are creating the sales, after all. If they are selling, they are kept. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/11/2023 12:25:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is Boomerific. Remote or hybrid work is the future. Of course not every job can be done remotely, but there are quite a few that can. The biggest resistance I've seen is from the old fuckers that think everyone needs to be in the office just because "that's where the work is". The same old dumbasses that say "if you're on time, you're late." Just. Fucking. Die. Already. I’m not going to hope for anyone’s death, but I share your sentiment. I cannot think of a facet of knowledge-based work that can’t be done remotely. It really isn’t going anywhere, it’s not going to diminish, and the more governments and cities thump their chests about coming back into work, the more people realize how much of a sham it is. Mandates for RTO are causing people to leave, and there is absolutely work out there for them. Every time big companies throw hissy fits, more people are inspired to start their own company. Some succeed, some don’t. Point being, the more they try to squeeze, the more juice escapes. As stated before I could get an LLC or something and launch a company on Azure (or AWS, etc.) in minutes. After that, I could hire from just about anywhere. The haters are going to hate, and at this point it’s just adorable. They’re wrong on basically every point. If India was the promised land for work, it’d all be there. I’ve been remote since 2011, far longer than a lot of people here. This system is just not going to change, no matter how hard the antis say it will. The myopia is astounding. Business intelligence, logistics, apps/software, social media, etc. It’s enveloping the world. Think of all the goods you can see. There was a study done a few years ago, if I can recall the source I will post it, that stated 80% of anything not naturally found has been tracked on an Excel sheet. Think of transportation, warehousing, accounting, billing, forecasting, operations, etc. All of them use software, all of it will require reporting at some point (or should, at least), and now there is a push to take that knowledge-based work and automate it, so now engineers and programmers are needed to handle that. That is just skimming the surface, with me sitting outside going off the cuff on a nice day. Going down the hole you will find there is no chance of remote, knowledge-based work going away. There is simply too much demand, and it’s growing, and firms are realizing their local candidates may not fit the bill. But by all means haters, hit us with your best shot. :) |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
