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Link Posted: 9/12/2024 2:32:00 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/LOL-UMAD-BRO1gqf_zps44023202_JPG-109.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXScBx3WwAE8pUT?format=jpg&name=large/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/LOL-UMAD-BRO1gqf_zps44023202_JPG-109.jpgETA — video of the evil midget saying it in tweet below (3 min clip).
View Quote


Wait, he’s saying this is the next red line after saying that about every single other thing? lol!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 2:51:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO] [#2]
Pentagon SPOX is covering the waterfront and taking questions from the pool.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 2:53:41 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

How on earth could Putin be induced to accept that??? Notice he didn't say "Russia wants this war to end." Russia can still accomplish their goals with continued military action. Ukraine can't. So what huge incentives could possibly be offered to Russia to take the arrangement he describes? Withdrawal of NATO support for the Baltics (which he already asked for prior to invading in 2022)?

Knowing that Russia's starting point to even negotiate is unilateral Ukrainian withdrawal to the administrative borders of the annexed territories, how could Ukraine be induced to accept that???

I expect Harris & Walz to make statements that are completely untethered from the real world, but Vance? WTF? That was very unserious.
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
~1 min video in tweet. "So I think it goes like this: Trump sits down, says to the Russians, to the Ukrainians, to the Europeans, you guys need to figure out what a peaceful settlement looks like. And it will probably look roughly the same as the current dividing line between Russia and Ukraine. It will become like a demilitarized zone. It will be strongly fortified so that the Russians do not invade again. Ukraine retains its independent sovereignty. Russia receives a guarantee of neutrality from Ukraine, it does not join NATO, it does not join any allied institutions." — J.D. Vance

How on earth could Putin be induced to accept that??? Notice he didn't say "Russia wants this war to end." Russia can still accomplish their goals with continued military action. Ukraine can't. So what huge incentives could possibly be offered to Russia to take the arrangement he describes? Withdrawal of NATO support for the Baltics (which he already asked for prior to invading in 2022)?

Knowing that Russia's starting point to even negotiate is unilateral Ukrainian withdrawal to the administrative borders of the annexed territories, how could Ukraine be induced to accept that???

I expect Harris & Walz to make statements that are completely untethered from the real world, but Vance? WTF? That was very unserious.

The Russians have made it clear what they want: the entire political and cultural subjugation of Ukraine, combined with its demilitarization. In other words, unconditional capitulation. That's actually a minimalist goal, by the way. A maximalist goal would be the expulsion of NATO from Eastern Europe and/or undermining article 5. When will people in "the west" understand: The Russians are not interested in negotiations with what they consider to be their food. Moreover, if someone tries to negotiate with them, they interpret it as weakness, as a sign that it's time to push more. And if they are in a position of weakness, they also aren't keen to negotiate, because they expect the same. Given their current position, I don't see any reason why Russia would accept such a peace deal, unless it involved significant concessions.

There exists a chance of a temporary "ceasefire" that will be far more violent than anything between 2015 and 2021, during which the west may strangle Ukraine down in silence so that they won't resist that much when the full-scale hostilities resume in a few years, this time with a fully China-equipped reinvigorated Russian military. The more likely outcome, IMO, is that a hypothetical second Trump Administration tries to force that peace deal, it doesn't work, and the conflict continues on, only with Ukraine receiving little to no US support. Trump's hypothetical "peace plan" (try to force a deal by saying he'd give Ukraine more than Biden did if Russia didn't negotiate) rests upon the assumption that Trump would actually be willing to surge aid, which I doubt he would. It is Trump, though, so anything is possible.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 2:56:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NEXT23] [#4]
It is VERY clear to me that -

We need to be in emergency/war time footing building Patriot launchers and missiles and a absolute metric shit ton of medium and short range ADA

Drones- by the thousands- millions

Submarines

Ships



Then a plan to deal with Iran, NK, and China
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:09:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GoldenMead] [#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NEXT23:
It is VERY clear to me that -

We need to be in emergency/war time footing building Patriot launchers and missiles and a absolute metric shit ton of medium and short range ADA

Drones- by the thousands- millions

Submarines

Ships



Then a plan to deal with Iran, NK, and China
View Quote


I think most agree with that, it’s definitely been said enough.  But you need to convince the people in charge first. Also we’re now paying $1 trillion on just servicing the National debt a year and we are borrowing $1 trillion every 90 days.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:19:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


I think most agree with that, it’s definitely been said enough.  But you need to convince the people in charge first. Also we’re now paying $1 trillion on just servicing the National debt a year and we are borrowing $1 trillion every 90 days.
View Quote



And, not a single Presidential candidate has mentioned a word about the National Debt (that I have heard).


CMOS  
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:20:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stgdz:

Some of you still cease to amaze me.  Those two have been telegraphing for damn near a year they will throw Ukraine under the bus if they get elected and you will be surprised when it happens.
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Originally Posted By stgdz:
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
I expect Harris & Walz to make statements that are completely untethered from the real world, but Vance? WTF? That was very unserious.

Some of you still cease to amaze me.  Those two have been telegraphing for damn near a year they will throw Ukraine under the bus if they get elected and you will be surprised when it happens.

It's not that I didn't think Trump would absolutely throw Ukraine under the bus, I take him at his word on that. The shock is that Vance could make a statement that he cannot support, uttering a 'deal' that everybody paying attention has no reason to believe Putin would even entertain, much less accept. There is no basis for Putin to consider accepting the current lines, which makes Vance's postulation absolutely stupid. This goes back to the question I've been asking everyone calling for 'negotiations' for the last two years: how can Putin be induced to negotiate? How can he be induced to accept terms, especially now that Ukraine has extended itself and the Russian military is winning or static on every front (however ugly it may be)? As I said above, Russia has the ability to get what it wants without negotiating, by continuing its military operations. Ukraine cannot. There is no 'deal' to be made, which an ostensibly 'deal making' man ought to know, and by extension his running mate ought to know. Vance is unserious.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:24:49 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By CMOS:



And, not a single Presidential candidate has mentioned a word about the National Debt (that I have heard).


CMOS  
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Originally Posted By CMOS:
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


I think most agree with that, it’s definitely been said enough.  But you need to convince the people in charge first. Also we’re now paying $1 trillion on just servicing the National debt a year and we are borrowing $1 trillion every 90 days.



And, not a single Presidential candidate has mentioned a word about the National Debt (that I have heard).


CMOS  

The actual spending cuts that would be required to even remotely start solving the problem would be political suicide.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:25:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
~1 min video in tweet. "So I think it goes like this: Trump sits down, says to the Russians, to the Ukrainians, to the Europeans, you guys need to figure out what a peaceful settlement looks like. And it will probably look roughly the same as the current dividing line between Russia and Ukraine. It will become like a demilitarized zone. It will be strongly fortified so that the Russians do not invade again. Ukraine retains its independent sovereignty. Russia receives a guarantee of neutrality from Ukraine, it does not join NATO, it does not join any allied institutions." — J.D. Vance
View Quote



That would 100% guarantee Ukraine becomes a nuclear power.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:28:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:30:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DPeacher:



That would 100% guarantee Ukraine becomes a nuclear power.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
~1 min video in tweet. "So I think it goes like this: Trump sits down, says to the Russians, to the Ukrainians, to the Europeans, you guys need to figure out what a peaceful settlement looks like. And it will probably look roughly the same as the current dividing line between Russia and Ukraine. It will become like a demilitarized zone. It will be strongly fortified so that the Russians do not invade again. Ukraine retains its independent sovereignty. Russia receives a guarantee of neutrality from Ukraine, it does not join NATO, it does not join any allied institutions." — J.D. Vance



That would 100% guarantee Ukraine becomes a nuclear power.



Yep.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/07/19/vance-trump-vice-president-foreign-policy/

The Irrelevance of J.D. Vance to U.S. Foreign Policy
Vice presidents can have plenty of responsibilities—but shaping strategy usually isn’t one of them.  
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:34:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:35:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Prime:
Biden may let British Storm Shadow missiles strike inside Russia
Keir Starmer flies to US as President Zelensky lays out his ‘victory plan’



The United States may allow Ukraine to use British and French missiles but not its own longer-range weapons inside Russia, according to two sources familiar with discussions that have taken place.

President Biden may decide to give the green light to President Zelensky to use Storm Shadow missiles and their French equivalent, Scalp missiles, to strike targets in Russian territory on the ground that the UK and France support such a move, they said.

However, the US would not allow Ukraine to fire its longest-range version of ATACMS — a ballistic missile — at targets across the border, hoping to prevent a further escalation of the conflict.

The two sources, from the governments of different nations, spoke on condition of anonymity and said they believed that the proposed policy was likely to be adopted after meetings on Kyiv on Wednesday between Zelensky, Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, and David Lammy, the British foreign secretary. One of the sources said they expected the option to be discussed between Sir Keir Starmer, the prime minister, and Biden in Washington on Friday, although they downplayed suggestions of a sudden announcement on the matter.

Biden is expected to discuss the issue with other European leaders to sound them out on any change in policy. A British defence source said that the UK did not need the support of other countries in Nato to go ahead.

Both the UK and France are believed to support removing the restrictions on Ukraine’s use of its long-range weapons, but so far the Americans have blocked the change for fear of escalation. The Iranian delivery of more than 200 Fath-360 missiles to Russia last Wednesday is believed to have played a part in persuading some senior figures in the West that the policy needs to be changed urgently.

Ben Barry, a senior fellow for land warfare at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said he would not be surprised if Biden took a “half-way house” position because “France and Britain would be taking the risk on behalf of Ukraine and Ukraine’s friends”.

He said: “It’s a half-way house, it’s less than Ukraine has asked for but it’s better than nothing from Ukraine’s point of view. It increases the risk of escalation against Britain and France but not the US.”

In recent months Britain has supplied Ukraine with Storm Shadow missiles, which have a range of about 155 miles, and the US has provided the longest-range version of ATACMS, which can travel 190 miles.

Ukraine wants long-range weapons to use inside Russia so it can destroy air bases, ammunition depots and other military targets threatening its territory. Its military leaders want to be able to take out Russian bomber fleets, which are dropping air-launched glide bombs — cheap refurbished bombs with guide systems — on Ukrainian targets, to devastating effect. Russia can to launch the bombs dozens of miles behind the front lines.

Barry said that the Storm Shadow was most useful against hard targets such as bunkers and aircraft shelters. “It’s not particularly useful against targets in the open.”

The American missiles are more capable against a range of battlefield targets. “They have a warhead that is designed to explode on the surface, so they are very good for targets like artillery batteries, divisional headquarters, ammunition dumps and anti-aircraft missiles sites. It’s not so useful against the targets Storm Shadow is useful for,” Barry said.

“It’s rather like comparing a knife and fork, you can do a bit with either but you are better off with using both of them together.”

Starmer will fly to Washington on Friday to meet Biden there before meetings at the UN headquarters in New York on 22 and 23 September. Zelensky has said that he will present his “victory plan”, which is reliant upon US support, during the meetings.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/keir-starmer-joe-biden-storm-shadow-missiles-jmq87805n
View Quote


Why does the US get a say in the use of British weapons supplied by the British government?

I insist that the US should not be inserting itself in the conflict unnecessarily.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:39:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


I think most agree with that, it’s definitely been said enough.  But you need to convince the people in charge first. Also we’re now paying $1 trillion on just servicing the National debt a year and we are borrowing $1 trillion every 90 days.
View Quote


bread and circuses are expensive
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:43:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
View Quote

So fucking cool.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:46:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXTKBsbWMAAeR82?format=jpg&name=large
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Moldovan MoD-



CHIŞINĂU, September 12, 2024  — A contract soldier of the National Army, who was serving in the Joint Peacekeeping Forces, was mortally wounded today, September 12, as a result of a shot with the weapon provided, while serving at the post .

According to the information provided by the Operational Command Center, the incident took place at 17:50. The doctors who arrived at the scene confirmed the death of the soldier. At the same time, a team of police forensics is investigating the case.

The soldier by contract has been serving in the National Army since 2023.

The Ministry of Defense expresses its sincere condolences to the family of the deceased soldier and will provide all the necessary support to elucidate this regrettable case.


https://www.army.md/?lng=2&action=show&cat=122&obj=9252

Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:49:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jungatheart] [#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By Prime:
Biden may let British Storm Shadow missiles strike inside Russia
Keir Starmer flies to US as President Zelensky lays out his ‘victory plan’



The United States may allow Ukraine to use British and French missiles but not its own longer-range weapons inside Russia, according to two sources familiar with discussions that have taken place.

President Biden may decide to give the green light to President Zelensky to use Storm Shadow missiles and their French equivalent, Scalp missiles, to strike targets in Russian territory on the ground that the UK and France support such a move, they said.

However, the US would not allow Ukraine to fire its longest-range version of ATACMS — a ballistic missile — at targets across the border, hoping to prevent a further escalation of the conflict.

The two sources, from the governments of different nations, spoke on condition of anonymity and said they believed that the proposed policy was likely to be adopted after meetings on Kyiv on Wednesday between Zelensky, Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, and David Lammy, the British foreign secretary. One of the sources said they expected the option to be discussed between Sir Keir Starmer, the prime minister, and Biden in Washington on Friday, although they downplayed suggestions of a sudden announcement on the matter.

Biden is expected to discuss the issue with other European leaders to sound them out on any change in policy. A British defence source said that the UK did not need the support of other countries in Nato to go ahead.

Both the UK and France are believed to support removing the restrictions on Ukraine’s use of its long-range weapons, but so far the Americans have blocked the change for fear of escalation. The Iranian delivery of more than 200 Fath-360 missiles to Russia last Wednesday is believed to have played a part in persuading some senior figures in the West that the policy needs to be changed urgently.

Ben Barry, a senior fellow for land warfare at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said he would not be surprised if Biden took a “half-way house” position because “France and Britain would be taking the risk on behalf of Ukraine and Ukraine’s friends”.

He said: “It’s a half-way house, it’s less than Ukraine has asked for but it’s better than nothing from Ukraine’s point of view. It increases the risk of escalation against Britain and France but not the US.”

In recent months Britain has supplied Ukraine with Storm Shadow missiles, which have a range of about 155 miles, and the US has provided the longest-range version of ATACMS, which can travel 190 miles.

Ukraine wants long-range weapons to use inside Russia so it can destroy air bases, ammunition depots and other military targets threatening its territory. Its military leaders want to be able to take out Russian bomber fleets, which are dropping air-launched glide bombs — cheap refurbished bombs with guide systems — on Ukrainian targets, to devastating effect. Russia can to launch the bombs dozens of miles behind the front lines.

Barry said that the Storm Shadow was most useful against hard targets such as bunkers and aircraft shelters. “It’s not particularly useful against targets in the open.”

The American missiles are more capable against a range of battlefield targets. “They have a warhead that is designed to explode on the surface, so they are very good for targets like artillery batteries, divisional headquarters, ammunition dumps and anti-aircraft missiles sites. It’s not so useful against the targets Storm Shadow is useful for,” Barry said.

“It’s rather like comparing a knife and fork, you can do a bit with either but you are better off with using both of them together.”

Starmer will fly to Washington on Friday to meet Biden there before meetings at the UN headquarters in New York on 22 and 23 September. Zelensky has said that he will present his “victory plan”, which is reliant upon US support, during the meetings.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/keir-starmer-joe-biden-storm-shadow-missiles-jmq87805n


What a chicken shit cocksucker.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:52:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doc540:


bread and circuses are expensive
View Quote


That is exactly it. We just need to build a colosseum next.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:TA — video of the evil midget saying it in tweet below (3 min clip).
View Quote



First, he's repeating something I have not believed, but has been posted in GD. Or rather, GD has apparently been repeating Putin's talking points for him again. He says only NATO troops can enter the targeting info into the western weapons systems, Ukrainian troops cannot do this. I think it's a lie. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I thought Ukraine was fully responsible and capable for entering targeting data for ATACMs launches, for example.

Second, this is why I've been saying that the US government should STOP trying to MAKE the US into a party to the war. We are not and should not be a party to the war. But by micromanaging what Ukraine can and cannot do with the systems we provide them, we make ourselves party to the war. While it may pain me to say it, Putin has a valid point here: if the US is the one saying what can and cannot be struck, the US is a party to the war and therefore a combatant. You can't choose targets for attack and then say "I didn't pull the trigger, so I'm not involved." I absolutely hate the Biden administration for doing this. Give Ukraine weapons and let them fight. That's how a proxy war is supposed to work. This theory of 'escalation management' is and always was BS.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 3:54:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jungatheart:

What a chicken shit cocksucker.
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"Leader of the Free World."


We are f**ked, as are the Ukrainians.



CMOS  
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:02:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Just putting this here for those reading the thread from Rio Linda can see it.
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Hah! A Rush reference. I miss that guy. He'd have a lot to say about this whole fiasco.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:07:18 PM EDT
[#22]
he chose poorly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:10:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
he chose poorly.
View Quote


Clearly an UA war crime! He tried to surrender!




Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:10:48 PM EDT
[#24]
I bet we strike a deal to sell Russia, Iran and NK some goodies from our war machine contractors. That's how I'd handle this situation. Cease fire, and you can buy all the fun toys you want from us, special deal just for you, comrades.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:11:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
There are more out there seeking power and trying get into Congress, like this former CIA Office and Green Beret…:
Link to article: Meet the Kremlin's ideal Congressional candidateArticle is in spoiler below.
Click To View Spoiler
View Quote

I vehemently disagree with Joe Kent on this issue. Not sure where he gets his opinions: Ignorance or Russian PR influence.  I'd still eagerly vote for him over any democrat.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:13:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaxPayer77:
I bet we strike a deal to sell Russia, Iran and NK some goodies from our war machine contractors. That's how I'd handle this situation. Cease fire, and you can buy all the fun toys you want from us, special deal just for you, comrades.
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:15:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:



First, he's repeating something I have not believed, but has been posted in GD. Or rather, GD has apparently been repeating Putin's talking points for him again. He says only NATO troops can enter the targeting info into the western weapons systems, Ukrainian troops cannot do this. I think it's a lie. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I thought Ukraine was fully responsible and capable for entering targeting data for ATACMs launches, for example.

Second, this is why I've been saying that the US government should STOP trying to MAKE the US into a party to the war. We are not and should not be a party to the war. But by micromanaging what Ukraine can and cannot do with the systems we provide them, we make ourselves party to the war. While it may pain me to say it, Putin has a valid point here: if the US is the one saying what can and cannot be struck, the US is a party to the war and therefore a combatant. You can't choose targets for attack and then say "I didn't pull the trigger, so I'm not involved." I absolutely hate the Biden administration for doing this. Give Ukraine weapons and let them fight. That's how a proxy war is supposed to work. This theory of 'escalation management' is and always was BS.
View Quote


Ukraine is getting most of its intelligence from the US.  Ukraine doesn’t have intelligence satellites and we are not flying MQ-4’s around the border for nothing.  So there targeting data is most likely coming from us.  I’m sure Ukraine can handle running the vehicles.  But don’t think for a second we don’t have advisors on the ground observing everything and relaying data.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:16:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
he chose poorly.
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Most satisfying ventilation. Those UKR bros were not fucking around
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:16:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:

The actual spending cuts that would be required to even remotely start solving the problem would be political suicide.
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We previously had discussions in the other thread about Democrats happy to sacrifice Ukraine over open borders. Well they’d be happy to sacrifice Israel, Taiwan, US Defense budgets etc to retain their domestic spending programs and taxes. Obviously with all the Democrats China spying scandals, China is happy to encourage that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:17:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
he chose poorly.
View Quote



A culmination of many poor choices.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:19:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:

We previously had discussions in the other thread about Democrats happy to sacrifice Ukraine over open borders. Well they’d be happy to sacrifice Israel, Taiwan, US Defense budgets etc to retain their domestic spending programs and taxes. Obviously with all the Democrats China spying scandals, China is happy to encourage that.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:

The actual spending cuts that would be required to even remotely start solving the problem would be political suicide.

We previously had discussions in the other thread about Democrats happy to sacrifice Ukraine over open borders. Well they’d be happy to sacrifice Israel, Taiwan, US Defense budgets etc to retain their domestic spending programs and taxes. Obviously with all the Democrats China spying scandals, China is happy to encourage that.

It's not just the left. Fiscal conservatism is dead in general, and it has been for quite some time.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:20:00 PM EDT
[#32]
this still gets me every time I see it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:22:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NEXT23:
It is VERY clear to me that -

We need to be in emergency/war time footing building Patriot launchers and missiles and a absolute metric shit ton of medium and short range ADA

Drones- by the thousands- millions

Submarines

Ships



Then a plan to deal with Iran, NK, and China
View Quote

Democrats will drag feet on all that while demanding $ to save lesbian tree frogs from climate change
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:24:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


That is exactly it. We just need to build a colosseum next.
View Quote


Swiftie will sell it out for 3 months straight
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:24:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:

As I wrote before the debate all the “no more wars” and “peace and prosperity” talk amongst conservatives sounds great except it neglects the main point I always make which is the enemy gets a vote. It’s narcissism to think we can control the world and force it or trick it or buy it off to be peaceful
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And it goes against Trumps basic tenant of negotiating: If you want something, don't act like you want it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:29:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:
This was mentioned in a post last night, more details came out this morning:

Twitter thread about IDF attack/raid on Syria last week.  First tweet below, thread in quote box:






View Quote

I guess you can't shake a stick at hamas terrorists without hitting some UNRWA "staff"...
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:31:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Ukraine is getting most of its intelligence from the US.  Ukraine doesn’t have intelligence satellites and we are not flying MQ-4’s around the border for nothing.  So there targeting data is most likely coming from us.  I’m sure Ukraine can handle running the vehicles.  But don’t think for a second we don’t have advisors on the ground observing everything and relaying data.
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Absolutely, US is providing huge data and ISR to Ukraine. But the argument made that US soldiers have to input the targets into the systems - or British soldiers for Storm Shadow and French soldiers for Scalp - is BS, is it not? I see that claim get made in GD, and now also by Putin himself, and I don't believe it. There's a world of difference between saying, "here's data on all the targets" and maybe even giving the customer the ability to request targets/locations/ranges and "I'm going to input target data into the missile system now, you can push the red button when I'm done."
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:32:51 PM EDT
[#38]
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:

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We could arm the uke bros and the ruskies. Let them fight it out. Classic scene in most glorious Glimmer Man, old warriors let the young ones fight at first, don't rush into battle.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:35:49 PM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By kpacman:



This is about as unambiguous as a statement can be.

Essentially, JD is stating that Russia's conditions for a cease fire will be accepted and promoted by a Trump administration.

NATO membership is the ONLY thing that will guarantee that Russia won't initiate SMO 2.0 in several years after it re-arms and lays in more offensive weaponry.

Let's not pretend/hope/pray Trump's actions will be anything different than this.
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Probably but NATO membership would be secondary to fulling arming and equipping Ukraine with credible defenses. Otherwise a weak and ill equipped NATO member Ukraine would just be attacked asymmetrically again and the weak members would argue it's just more "domestic issues" like in 2014 and veto article 5. Anyway, if this shit deal is pushed on Ukraine they will likely get nukes ASAP, stupid not to.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:37:00 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By CMOS:



You can bet that these "laws" will not be fixed, due to plentiful "lobbying" by Chinese actors.


CMOS
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Right NOW some CCP agent is slipping a list of demands across a table to a corrupt US politician...
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:45:36 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Just putting this here for those reading the thread from Rio Linda can see it.
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If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later.

I think russias wet dream would be
1) Out of NATO
2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken
3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken
4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted
5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military.
6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:47:13 PM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By Prime:
Biden may let British Storm Shadow missiles strike inside Russia
Keir Starmer flies to US as President Zelensky lays out his ‘victory plan’




The United States may allow Ukraine to use British and French missiles but not its own longer-range weapons inside Russia, according to two sources familiar with discussions that have taken place.

President Biden may decide to give the green light to President Zelensky to use Storm Shadow missiles and their French equivalent, Scalp missiles, to strike targets in Russian territory on the ground that the UK and France support such a move, they said.

However, the US would not allow Ukraine to fire its longest-range version of ATACMS — a ballistic missile — at targets across the border, hoping to prevent a further escalation of the conflict.

The two sources, from the governments of different nations, spoke on condition of anonymity and said they believed that the proposed policy was likely to be adopted after meetings on Kyiv on Wednesday between Zelensky, Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, and David Lammy, the British foreign secretary. One of the sources said they expected the option to be discussed between Sir Keir Starmer, the prime minister, and Biden in Washington on Friday, although they downplayed suggestions of a sudden announcement on the matter.

Biden is expected to discuss the issue with other European leaders to sound them out on any change in policy. A British defence source said that the UK did not need the support of other countries in Nato to go ahead.

Both the UK and France are believed to support removing the restrictions on Ukraine’s use of its long-range weapons, but so far the Americans have blocked the change for fear of escalation. The Iranian delivery of more than 200 Fath-360 missiles to Russia last Wednesday is believed to have played a part in persuading some senior figures in the West that the policy needs to be changed urgently.

Ben Barry, a senior fellow for land warfare at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said he would not be surprised if Biden took a “half-way house” position because “France and Britain would be taking the risk on behalf of Ukraine and Ukraine’s friends”.

He said: “It’s a half-way house, it’s less than Ukraine has asked for but it’s better than nothing from Ukraine’s point of view. It increases the risk of escalation against Britain and France but not the US.”

In recent months Britain has supplied Ukraine with Storm Shadow missiles, which have a range of about 155 miles, and the US has provided the longest-range version of ATACMS, which can travel 190 miles.

Ukraine wants long-range weapons to use inside Russia so it can destroy air bases, ammunition depots and other military targets threatening its territory. Its military leaders want to be able to take out Russian bomber fleets, which are dropping air-launched glide bombs — cheap refurbished bombs with guide systems — on Ukrainian targets, to devastating effect. Russia can to launch the bombs dozens of miles behind the front lines.

Barry said that the Storm Shadow was most useful against hard targets such as bunkers and aircraft shelters. “It’s not particularly useful against targets in the open.”

The American missiles are more capable against a range of battlefield targets. “They have a warhead that is designed to explode on the surface, so they are very good for targets like artillery batteries, divisional headquarters, ammunition dumps and anti-aircraft missiles sites. It’s not so useful against the targets Storm Shadow is useful for,” Barry said.

“It’s rather like comparing a knife and fork, you can do a bit with either but you are better off with using both of them together.”

Starmer will fly to Washington on Friday to meet Biden there before meetings at the UN headquarters in New York on 22 and 23 September. Zelensky has said that he will present his “victory plan”, which is reliant upon US support, during the meetings.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/keir-starmer-joe-biden-storm-shadow-missiles-jmq87805n

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"We're too scared but you can if you really want"...

I wonder what the official explanation is for this? What could the US be telling partners about our rationale? "We are afraid of escalation but not if you do it"? Like if my kid needed some medicine late at night and I told my wife "no way I'm going honey, it's dark and scary out there, YOU SHOULD GO"...
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:53:14 PM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By kpacman:



China has shown no effort at all to ameliorate this situation. They are the benefactor of seeing this continue.

They are getting gas from Russia under the greatest conditions, along with huge sales of military and technology products.

How would they improve their situation by "twisting Russia's testicles"?

They hold sway over N. Korea, yet the Nork's are sending ballistic missiles and artillery shells galore.

I see no scenario where China would act as you describe.
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At best Ukraine can offer China some rebuilding contracts in exchange for not getting more involved with helping Russia. They realize that the US/NATO are maxed out either due to lack of supply or lack of testicles. And China has not even broken a sweat yet.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:54:07 PM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


Zelenskyy accuses Brazil of being pro-Russia, slams peace proposal

When asked about Brazil’s position on the war, Zelenskyy said, “Unfortunately, I believe that they [the Brazilian government] are taking Russia’s side.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-china-brazil-peace-proposal-russia-ukraine/

Not surprising that Brazil is taking Russia’s side.  Brazil has moved very far away from the US the last 3 years and they are deep in China sphere of influence now.  More foreign policy failures from our current government.
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It's amazing how Neo-marxist fascist countries seem to support one another.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:55:24 PM EDT
[#45]
My hope is that Ukraine, being the brains behind a significant percentage of Russia's smarts for the duration of the cold war, has kept at least one SCALP and an ATACMS and a this and a that and has taken them apart and managed to cop as much IP as possible so they can domestically procure ATACMsky's and SCALPsy's.

Would go a long way if they can domestically produce even a 90% analog. "It's ok, we don't need your stuff to deep strike Russia, we've got it covered with our own stuff."

Oh it looks suspiciously like an ATACMS strike? But it's got Cyrillic all over the debris raining down on Red Square? Huh...
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 4:57:00 PM EDT
[#46]
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Originally Posted By FreefallRet:
Ukraine will still own part of Russia, they need to get control of the Russian nuke plant first.
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If the UA actually moved on the Kursk NPP the pearl-clutching ladies in DC would scream and shout bloody murder.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:02:36 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:

It's not just the left. Fiscal conservatism is dead in general, and it has been for quite some time.
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:
The actual spending cuts that would be required to even remotely start solving the problem would be political suicide.

We previously had discussions in the other thread about Democrats happy to sacrifice Ukraine over open borders. Well they’d be happy to sacrifice Israel, Taiwan, US Defense budgets etc to retain their domestic spending programs and taxes. Obviously with all the Democrats China spying scandals, China is happy to encourage that.

It's not just the left. Fiscal conservatism is dead in general, and it has been for quite some time.

It's because the problem is intractable.

You can cut ALL defense spending, and ALL HHS spending and still not solve the deficit, and those are some sacred cows. I keep posting that really solving the problem requires spending cuts AND tax increases, but that's not popular in a nominally 'conservative' forum. The shock that would be involved in eliminating the deficit purely by spending cuts would blow up a lot of our society. The problem has gotten so big, that someone who is truly fiscally conservative - meaning, someone who wants to minimize debt & deficit - must accept tax increases of some kind. That's why it's gotten so hard to find a 'fiscal conservative.' You can't cut your way out of this mess, not really.

And this is just to maintain the current level, ignoring the fact that Defense is actually underfunded as a percent of GDP in historical terms.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:02:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:08:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest] [#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

Absolutely, US is providing huge data and ISR to Ukraine. But the argument made that US soldiers have to input the targets into the systems - or British soldiers for Storm Shadow and French soldiers for Scalp - is BS, is it not? I see that claim get made in GD, and now also by Putin himself, and I don't believe it. There's a world of difference between saying, "here's data on all the targets" and maybe even giving the customer the ability to request targets/locations/ranges and "I'm going to input target data into the missile system now, you can push the red button when I'm done."
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Ukraine is getting most of its intelligence from the US.  Ukraine doesn’t have intelligence satellites and we are not flying MQ-4’s around the border for nothing.  So there targeting data is most likely coming from us.  I’m sure Ukraine can handle running the vehicles.  But don’t think for a second we don’t have advisors on the ground observing everything and relaying data.

Absolutely, US is providing huge data and ISR to Ukraine. But the argument made that US soldiers have to input the targets into the systems - or British soldiers for Storm Shadow and French soldiers for Scalp - is BS, is it not? I see that claim get made in GD, and now also by Putin himself, and I don't believe it. There's a world of difference between saying, "here's data on all the targets" and maybe even giving the customer the ability to request targets/locations/ranges and "I'm going to input target data into the missile system now, you can push the red button when I'm done."


Is BS



Ukraine can organically close the kill chain.  













Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:15:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stone-age:


If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later.

I think russias wet dream would be
1) Out of NATO
2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken
3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken
4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted
5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military.
6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stone-age:
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Just putting this here for those reading the thread from Rio Linda can see it.


If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later.

I think russias wet dream would be
1) Out of NATO
2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken
3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken
4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted
5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military.
6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences.

A buddy of mine has a saying, It's harder for the Russians to not lie than it is to tell the truth.
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