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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:26:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've not found anyone willing to do a practical application test with live fire. Even with a lowly 20ga Shockwave and #3 Buck. I don’t want to get hit in the face with human shit, nor can I find anyone who wants to be hit in the face with it. I’m not going to rely on it to stop a home invasion when I have vastly better choices. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:30:45 PM EDT
[#2]
#clickbait
#neverbeendonebefore #newideas |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:31:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A shotgun with 00 Buck will absolutely fuck up anyone inside a home, provided you do your part. AR vs 00 is stupid. Both will kill, but a shotgun will do it quicker. This argument is stupid. I'd rather be shot 5 times by a 9mm than 1 round of 00 buck. How many people have you shot with either an AR or a shotgun? 5.56 kills people really goddamn fast. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:35:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've not found anyone willing to do a practical application test with live fire. Even with a lowly 20ga Shockwave and #3 Buck. I don’t want to get shot with a .32ACP. It sucks. This is the stupidest argument ever. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:35:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t want to get hit in the face with human shit, nor can I find anyone who wants to be hit in the face with it. I’m not going to rely on it to stop a home invasion when I have vastly better choices. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've not found anyone willing to do a practical application test with live fire. Even with a lowly 20ga Shockwave and #3 Buck. I don’t want to get hit in the face with human shit, nor can I find anyone who wants to be hit in the face with it. I’m not going to rely on it to stop a home invasion when I have vastly better choices. I don't know dude, a face full of shit could be a real pivotal moment 
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:36:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t want to get hit in the face with human shit, nor can I find anyone who wants to be hit in the face with it. I’m not going to rely on it to stop a home invasion when I have vastly better choices. I did see a snippet of a documentary once. It had these two girls, that were sharing a cup. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:36:52 PM EDT
[#7]
It’s different, it’s not better or worse. Some can handle it some can’t.
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:38:22 PM EDT
[#8]
FPNI.
Shotguns don't suck. People who say shotguns suck are either stupid or trolling. They offer a lot of versatility, different types of ammo. Awesome first round effectiveness. Rifles are better. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:38:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t want to get shot with a .32ACP. It sucks. This is the stupidest argument ever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've not found anyone willing to do a practical application test with live fire. Even with a lowly 20ga Shockwave and #3 Buck. I don’t want to get shot with a .32ACP. It sucks. This is the stupidest argument ever. No argument. I have several firearms. If a 20 ga with buckshot is the one I happen to grab, I'm confident in it's threat stopping abilities. If I have to ventilate a thug or two, I don't give a flying fuck what GD thinks of my gun used. The same flawed "logic" that says shotguns are stupid for defense can also be used to say that 110gr 300blk is better than 5.56, and 6.5 Grendel is even better, and 450 Bushmaster is better yet. Or, unless you are wielding a .308, you are going to get skinned and ass raped with your own gun. 
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:50:13 PM EDT
[#10]
People really over-think this stuff. If you have concerns of your home being invaded by a large group of men wearing any kind of armor. Guys who are going to stand and engage with you and continue to engage after your shotgun round(s) hit their soft armor.... Your first steps should be build a 12' concrete fence around your house along with a reinforced steel gate. Bars on your windows/door. And full surveillance video of the compound.
A shotgun is just fine for home defense. Quoted: I tried to think of SBR negatives. I really can't. With the right ammo, they just rule for home defense. Mag changes are easy, ammo is lightweight, accessories aren't nearly an issue. They're shorter, more usable in tight quarters, and they are sexy. I really do love the shotgun, because they are so capable, and I wouldn't feel outgunned if it was all I could have. Any M4 platform is just leagues better at almost everything, except maybe breaching. If you have the budget, and are willing to train, the AR is much much better for everything. It just is. They are a lot more expensive. If you are going SBR + suppressor you need a tax stamp. If you have to shoot someone its going to sit in an evidence locker for awhile. Etc. You can literally pick up a pump action shotgun with a 18" barrel, toss on a light and your ready to go for under $300. Furthermore a shotgun isn't really much longer then an AR with a 16" barrel and flash hider or a SBR at 11.5 with a suppressor. Obviously if your into AR's and don't utilize a gun safe its fine. But if you want to toss something next to the bed for under $300 that you don't care gets stolen or it sits in an evidence locker the shotgun is the way to go. Also assuming you don't carry a gun in your home its cheap to toss a few of shotguns in various rooms of the house. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:53:26 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 2/10/2022 10:55:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Happens a fair amount. And running a shotgun one handed is a bitch. Totally possible, assuming you have trained on it. Everyone trains to run all their firearms one handed- right? Right?? Well you should. Get some training people...you can run pistols, rifles, and shotguns all one handed if needed, clear malfunctions, reload, etc. But I guarantee if a gunfight is the first time you do it you will wish you had training. Train for what you suck at. I suck at off side shooting so I work on it. One hand shooting should be something we all work on |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 11:04:14 PM EDT
[#13]
I just got a new M4 a few weeks ago and got it all tricked out and 922r compliant. It’s been an absolute blast to shoot steel with 00 and slugs and I love the gun.
Then I pulled out the trusty suppressed mk18 and did similar drills on 2 steel plates and yeah… about 2x as fast. One could argue the effectiveness of m193 out of a mk18 vs 00 bucks but at my home distances where 15yards is the max distance, the speed and versatility offered by my mk18 makes it the clear choice. Now if someone is living in California and can’t have an AR but can have a M4 ghost loaded to 5+1+1 with 00 buck, they might have a legitimate use case for a shotgun over a CA legal AR. But anyone who is proficient with both in a HD scenario should do the same drills with both guns and I’d bet the carbine comes out on top in speed and accuracy. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 11:05:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how many home invasions in the past 20 years were unsuccessfully repelled by a shotgun wielding homeowner that ran out of rounds,failed to penetrate body armor,was overwhelmed by a squad of attackers. If we’re going off just statistics alone, you’d be fine with a 6 shot revolver as most shootings never get past 3-4 rounds on average. That doesn’t mean I’m going to limit myself based on real world stats though. If I can carry more for minimal extra cost in weight, that’s a cheap advantage for me. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 11:31:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Sorry. 12 gauge with 00 Federal Flight Control low recoil is a superior round to any rifle or handgun you’d use for home defense. Sure a PS90 with 50 rounds is nice for round count … 7 rounds in my shotgun with 9 pellet 00 buck is actually 63 rounds at a bad guy with only 7 trigger pulls.
If you are a die hard AR guy for home defense, god bless you … I have both and I’d reach for a shotgun 9 times out of 10. |
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Posted: 2/10/2022 11:35:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR’s are better, but a shotgun will fuck your day up in a big way. People argue 5.56/7.62x39 and 9mm/45ACP stopping power. A shotgun laughs.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpu6XgtS02wJust about anything at that range laughs. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 12:08:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't suck for home defense. Rifles are just better. Likely the most accurate post that will be made in this thread. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 12:22:44 AM EDT
[#18]
A loaded Mossberg 500 JIC Cruiser 12 ga with a 50 round bandolier of 00Buck within reach from my pillow. Much easier for middle of the night break-in defense. Goes thru drywall,hollow doors and has nice spread & knockdown. My mobility and vision/aim isn’t what it used to be but I feel like this will work.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 12:23:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Likely the most accurate post that will be made in this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They don't suck for home defense. Rifles are just better. Likely the most accurate post that will be made in this thread.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 12:32:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dQEEFwsCIgI disagree..shotguns are one of the most versatile weapons out there…I’ll never be without one agreed |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 12:35:09 AM EDT
[#21]
I vastly prefer an AR, but a shotgun is a formidable tool as well.
A 12 gauge w/00 Buck is devastating on humans. I've seen it a few times. A good friend of mine was one of them, and it stopped the threat immediately by blowing the guys heart out of his back, along with the wad. My old 18" 870 is loaded with Federal FC 00 Buck. Considering the distances in a HD situation, I would not hesitate to grab it. ETA... Mac is a tool. Why people give these guys clicks is beyond me. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 12:44:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real down side is for pumps having to use two hands. Its real advantageous to be able to use one hand to operate your weapon if you have to. Plenty of shootings end up with people shot through the wrist arm and hand. Because thats whats in front of you. having to use both if someone is shooting back is not ideal. I still have an hd pump shotgun and wouldn't hesitate to use it but a high capacity semi auto is better no matter what platform. Very solid point. I absolutely love shotguns but running one one handed would not be the best of times compared to a short ar15. Either would do the job though, the rifle just has more versatility if you need it |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 3:27:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A semi auto handgun would make much more sense. I don't think the average person will even remember how to use a shotgun in a SD situation. Seriously? I ran fire and rescue for over 25yrs. 3/4 of the homes we went to had a shotgun standing right by the front door. Every barn had at least one shot gun in the milk house for protecting the cows from anything that might come along. Granted this is rural Wisconsin, however the in town homes were the same way. Next time you go shooting with a first timer let them shoot your favorite semi auto hand gun and compare that to what they hit with a shotgun. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 3:28:39 AM EDT
[#24]
Well, shit. I got a 590A1 Retrograde last year, and this year my wife told me to buy a pump shotgun. I think that was my hint to buy a Benelli M2.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:50:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A loaded Mossberg 500 JIC Cruiser 12 ga with a 50 round bandolier of 00Buck within reach from my pillow. Much easier for middle of the night break-in defense. Goes thru drywall,hollow doors and has nice spread & knockdown. My mobility and vision/aim isn’t what it used to be but I feel like this will work. https://www.mossberg.com/product/500-tactical-jic-51340/for close quarters. 2 things in your post are concerning. #1, a 50 round bandoleer weighs what, 3 pounds? I hope it isn't one of those bandoleers that hang off the gun doubling as a sling. #2 "I feel like this will work"??? Respectfully, you should KNOW. Have you shot it much? |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:03:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A loaded Mossberg 500 JIC Cruiser 12 ga with a 50 round bandolier of 00Buck within reach from my pillow. Much easier for middle of the night break-in defense. Goes thru drywall,hollow doors and has nice spread & knockdown. My mobility and vision/aim isn’t what it used to be but I feel like this will work for close quarters. shotguns can be used from elevated positions against larger crowds as an improvised claymore if needed. Another advantage. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:14:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to say boots … Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/281590/DFDE9755-EA5D-4C4F-8847-2DB87E8E58D4_jpe-2274602.JPG I call this picture, “The Evolution of Someone Who Actually Shoots and Trains” ???? Nice. So the evolution is from shotgun, to AR, to AR, to ...pony? I was going to say boots … Yep. Exactly. If the gunfight looks iffy, I throw on those boots, jump on my grandsons rocking horse, and rock off into the sunset. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:25:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: shotguns can be used from elevated positions against larger crowds as an improvised claymore if needed. Another advantage. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A loaded Mossberg 500 JIC Cruiser 12 ga with a 50 round bandolier of 00Buck within reach from my pillow. Much easier for middle of the night break-in defense. Goes thru drywall,hollow doors and has nice spread & knockdown. My mobility and vision/aim isn't what it used to be but I feel like this will work for close quarters. shotguns can be used from elevated positions against larger crowds as an improvised claymore if needed. Another advantage. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:34:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Can someone point me to a case where a shotgun failed to defend the home and the homeowner died? Im not giving it clicks unless someone post that he has case studies and intelligent analysis of multiple home defense failures and is not a moron just spouting bullshit.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:47:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Meh, the more I listen to MAC, the less respect I have for his opinions.
He's turning into another nut-n-fancy jibber jabber factory. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:48:42 AM EDT
[#31]
The racking sound is terrifying to burglars.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:49:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can someone point me to a case where a shotgun failed to defend the home and the homeowner died? Im not giving it clicks unless someone post that he has case studies and intelligent analysis of multiple home defense failures and is not a moron just spouting bullshit. Your question is pointless. Of course someone in a gunfight, with a shotgun, failed and died. As did someone in a gunfight with an AR, handgun, tomahawk, spear.... I have a tractor and a Chevy truck. Both will get me to town. One is better and more efficient. It's that simple. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:50:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The racking sound is terrifying to burglars. Yep. I'm pretty sure all you have to do is rack your Daddy's Model 12 and the bad guys will go away.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:52:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The racking sound is terrifying to burglars. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:15:17 AM EDT
[#35]
This thread is going positively Gothic.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:20:43 AM EDT
[#36]
I can't decide. I'm just going to buy one of these.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:24:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The racking sound is terrifying to burglars. Why did this take so long?
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:26:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why did this take so long? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The racking sound is terrifying to burglars. Why did this take so long? |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:43:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The racking sound is terrifying to burglars. I've seen the reaction in other people in a tense situation when a screen door shut and the latch closing sounded like a pump shotgun being racked - it definately got everyone's attention. Whenever someone opens a Zippo I eat dirt..... 
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:46:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't suck for home defense. Rifles are just better. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:49:07 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many people have you shot with either an AR or a shotgun? 5.56 kills people really goddamn fast. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A shotgun with 00 Buck will absolutely fuck up anyone inside a home, provided you do your part. AR vs 00 is stupid. Both will kill, but a shotgun will do it quicker. This argument is stupid. I'd rather be shot 5 times by a 9mm than 1 round of 00 buck. How many people have you shot with either an AR or a shotgun? 5.56 kills people really goddamn fast. A shotgun is much better |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:52:47 AM EDT
[#42]
Pretty sure nine .33 caliber holes in an intruders chest is going to absolutely fuck his world up. Not to mention rapid follow up shots because has operated semi autos are a thing lol
ETA id still grab a pistol or an AR first because i shoot them 100x more and that is my go to. Plus both sbrs are supressed which is a huge plus imho. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:54:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: shotguns can be used from elevated positions against larger crowds as an improvised claymore if needed. Another advantage. Who the fuck is talking about just shooting into random crowds of people? |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:55:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many people have you shot with either an AR or a shotgun? 5.56 kills people really goddamn fast. Meat-from-bone>wounding round |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:55:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A shotgun is much better I’ve put dicks in with dirt with a far amount of rapidity with 5.56. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:03:13 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People really over-think this stuff. If you have concerns of your home being invaded by a large group of men wearing any kind of armor. Guys who are going to stand and engage with you and continue to engage after your shotgun round(s) hit their soft armor.... Your first steps should be build a 12' concrete fence around your house along with a reinforced steel gate. Bars on your windows/door. And full surveillance video of the compound. A shotgun is just fine for home defense. They are a lot more expensive. If you are going SBR + suppressor you need a tax stamp. If you have to shoot someone its going to sit in an evidence locker for awhile. Etc. You can literally pick up a pump action shotgun with a 18" barrel, toss on a light and your ready to go for under $300. Furthermore a shotgun isn't really much longer then an AR with a 16" barrel and flash hider or a SBR at 11.5 with a suppressor. Obviously if your into AR's and don't utilize a gun safe its fine. But if you want to toss something next to the bed for under $300 that you don't care gets stolen or it sits in an evidence locker the shotgun is the way to go. Also assuming you don't carry a gun in your home its cheap to toss a few of shotguns in various rooms of the house. I don't think anyone thinks about the taken away for evidence part. They are not going to baby it, it's going to get thrown in a rack or on a shelf and be subject to the environment of that room. And I hope all the professional training everyone got has prepared them to stay calm and focused so they don't have random shots going through walls. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:15:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Well it's pretty obvious who has never seen a real world, close contact shotgun wound.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:20:57 AM EDT
[#48]
I love mine. It’s my go to for house and yard usage here in bfe. Got a sbr right next to it.
 Attached FileAdded a light for Bette night usage  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Shotguns are great when getting attacked by a flock of ducks or a covey of quail
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:23:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who the fuck is talking about just shooting into random crowds of people? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: shotguns can be used from elevated positions against larger crowds as an improvised claymore if needed. Another advantage. Who the fuck is talking about just shooting into random crowds of people? We have recently seen reasons why. It’s called a riot gun for a reason. |
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