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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By waterglass: If they served no purpose, to build them in the first place is really stupid. only a stupid motherfucker would build it. Stupid motherfuckers are stupid motherfuckers. There is no shortage of things built by stupid motherfuckers that at a glance lets you know it was stupid motherfuckers what built it. The pyramids of Giza are not among them. A pragmatic motherfucker built those, with a pragmatic purpose. View Quote Compare them to the Colossus, the Hanging Gardens, etc. Or even modern wonders like the Taj Mahal. Yes, you can argue that the pyramids have a certain stark aesthetic appeal, but that same aesthetic could have been achieved MUCH easier. Not only that, but all indications are that the Great Pyramid at least didn't ever have a capstone. Herodotus claims that it was in perfect condition within his lifetime, fully intact, with no capstone. The whole Giza plateau lacks any aesthetic appeal really, and I don't think it would have looked a whole lot better in its prime. The landscaping around the pyramids is butt ugly. Probably the biggest problem with the pyramid as a tomb theory though is that Egyptians, especially wealthy ones, lived in mortal fear of having their tombs looted. Their idea of salvation was completely dependent upon having certain burial rites. They believed that if someone were to break in and steal their books of the dead, destroy the paintings, disturb their mummy, etc. that it would have severe repercussions in the afterlife. Egyptian nobility were extremely preoccupied with finding secret locations for their tombs and leaving absolutely no outward trace of them. Their tombs would have been in a restricted area to begin with, and even if you managed to gain access without getting caught, you weren't supposed to be able to find the individual tombs. I don't think any pharaoh would have willingly allowed himself to be entombed in something that you could see for miles. Plus he knows good and well that as soon as he kicks off, the next guy might throw him in a ditch and take his place. Pharaohs were more concerned about rivals and successors than they were about the general tomb raiding public. There are numerous examples of successors trying to erase their predecessor's name from the history books. So they definitely would have been worried about a successor desecrating their tombs. |
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Just because I live in my parent's basement doesn't make my unfounded opinions any less valid.
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Agreed. The thing about monumental structures is that they're made with aesthetics in mind. The pyramids are the solitary wonder that don't really seem to have had any aesthetic purpose whatsoever, inside or out. Compare them to the Colossus, the Hanging Gardens, etc. Or even modern wonders like the Taj Mahal. Yes, you can argue that the pyramids have a certain stark aesthetic appeal, but that same aesthetic could have been achieved MUCH easier. Not only that, but all indications are that the Great Pyramid at least didn't ever have a capstone. Herodotus claims that it was in perfect condition within his lifetime, fully intact, with no capstone. The whole Giza plateau lacks any aesthetic appeal really, and I don't think it would have looked a whole lot better in its prime. The landscaping around the pyramids is butt ugly. Probably the biggest problem with the pyramid as a tomb theory though is that Egyptians, especially wealthy ones, lived in mortal fear of having their tombs looted. Their idea of salvation was completely dependent upon having certain burial rites. They believed that if someone were to break in and steal their books of the dead, destroy the paintings, disturb their mummy, etc. that it would have severe repercussions in the afterlife. Egyptian nobility were extremely preoccupied with finding secret locations for their tombs and leaving absolutely no outward trace of them. Their tombs would have been in a restricted area to begin with, and even if you managed to gain access without getting caught, you weren't supposed to be able to find the individual tombs. I don't think any pharaoh would have willingly allowed himself to be entombed in something that you could see for miles. Plus he knows good and well that as soon as he kicks off, the next guy might throw him in a ditch and take his place. Pharaohs were more concerned about rivals and successors than they were about the general tomb raiding public. There are numerous examples of successors trying to erase their predecessor's name from the history books. So they definitely would have been worried about a successor desecrating their tombs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By waterglass: If they served no purpose, to build them in the first place is really stupid. only a stupid motherfucker would build it. Stupid motherfuckers are stupid motherfuckers. There is no shortage of things built by stupid motherfuckers that at a glance lets you know it was stupid motherfuckers what built it. The pyramids of Giza are not among them. A pragmatic motherfucker built those, with a pragmatic purpose. Compare them to the Colossus, the Hanging Gardens, etc. Or even modern wonders like the Taj Mahal. Yes, you can argue that the pyramids have a certain stark aesthetic appeal, but that same aesthetic could have been achieved MUCH easier. Not only that, but all indications are that the Great Pyramid at least didn't ever have a capstone. Herodotus claims that it was in perfect condition within his lifetime, fully intact, with no capstone. The whole Giza plateau lacks any aesthetic appeal really, and I don't think it would have looked a whole lot better in its prime. The landscaping around the pyramids is butt ugly. Probably the biggest problem with the pyramid as a tomb theory though is that Egyptians, especially wealthy ones, lived in mortal fear of having their tombs looted. Their idea of salvation was completely dependent upon having certain burial rites. They believed that if someone were to break in and steal their books of the dead, destroy the paintings, disturb their mummy, etc. that it would have severe repercussions in the afterlife. Egyptian nobility were extremely preoccupied with finding secret locations for their tombs and leaving absolutely no outward trace of them. Their tombs would have been in a restricted area to begin with, and even if you managed to gain access without getting caught, you weren't supposed to be able to find the individual tombs. I don't think any pharaoh would have willingly allowed himself to be entombed in something that you could see for miles. Plus he knows good and well that as soon as he kicks off, the next guy might throw him in a ditch and take his place. Pharaohs were more concerned about rivals and successors than they were about the general tomb raiding public. There are numerous examples of successors trying to erase their predecessor's name from the history books. So they definitely would have been worried about a successor desecrating their tombs. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Another video talking about the shafts and a sealed door in the great pyramid.
Graham Hancock & the Infamous Gantenbrink Door COVER-UP |
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@brass you may find this interesting.
The Next End of the World | C.I.A. Classified play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg View Quote No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By verticalgain:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58051/methode_times_prod_web_bin_d56f61d0-e14e-11e8-a477-e2aeea19be9b_png-863560.JPG At Masada, around 5000 Romans built a 375 foot tall ramp from sand and small stones in the Judean mountains in the span of around 100 days. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By verticalgain:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
People suggesting that some sort of "spiral ramp" around the pyramid to move the stones up to the higher levels doesn't make sense for me. https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/image/pyramiden-rampen/wendelrampe-probleme.GIF In the illustration to get the stone to point "A" the slaves pulling the stone would have to go off the end of the ramp in order to get the stone ready to pull around the corner. Not to mention that the angle of the ramps incline would be too steep to pull 5 ton blocks up. At Masada, around 5000 Romans built a 375 foot tall ramp from sand and small stones in the Judean mountains in the span of around 100 days. Angle of sides: 51.3° Odd the Egyptians and Romans chose that exact same angle to pile together! (making me think that's the reason that angle was used on pyramids ,inside - out with extra features) |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By brass:
Invert your image, rock on outside, spiral ramp in the inside of the pyramid, which is filled with dirt as they go. Each level, the make a pile of dirt, stack rocks on the outside for a level or two, and continue, with the dirt walk at a shallow angle, such as 2 "courses" per "lap" around the inside, while leaving a few open on one "edge" to get the dirt in. The rocks could be pulled up that gentle incline on rollers, or pulled up, dragging on the points of the rocks below, either way is an option. No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By Rossi:
Funnier one about an object attributed to the Romans, found all over Europe but no one can explain for certain what they used it for. Theories vary from military or agricultural applications to knitting gloves. That's the problem of misplacing the tool's manual. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Funnier one about an object attributed to the Romans, found all over Europe but no one can explain for certain what they used it for. Theories vary from military or agricultural applications to knitting gloves. That's the problem of misplacing the tool's manual. Mystery of The Roman Dodecahedron
Tripzibit December 16, 2018 - Archaeology, Dodecahedron, Mysterious Artifact, Pentagon, Pentagram, Rome The Roman dodecahedron is a small, hollow object with a geometrical shape that has twelve flat faces. Each face is a pentagon, a five-sided shape. The Roman dodecahedron are also embellished with a series of knobs on each corner point of the pentagons, and the pentagon faces in most cases contain circular holes in them. Ranging from 4 to 11 centimetres (1.6 to 4.3 in) in size, they also vary in terms of textures. Most are made of bronze but some are made of stone. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/Roman_dodecahedron_jpg-863705.JPG (more at link) |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Layers of cut stone and Petri concrete maybe. Not dirt. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg No outside ramp, and that's how I can think thye'd get all the channels/tunnels perfect |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By brass:
That is an expended Holy Hand Grenade! I'd need a bigger photo to decide origin's, but Antioch is not off the options. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Funnier one about an object attributed to the Romans, found all over Europe but no one can explain for certain what they used it for. Theories vary from military or agricultural applications to knitting gloves. That's the problem of misplacing the tool's manual. Mystery of The Roman Dodecahedron
Tripzibit December 16, 2018 - Archaeology, Dodecahedron, Mysterious Artifact, Pentagon, Pentagram, Rome The Roman dodecahedron is a small, hollow object with a geometrical shape that has twelve flat faces. Each face is a pentagon, a five-sided shape. The Roman dodecahedron are also embellished with a series of knobs on each corner point of the pentagons, and the pentagon faces in most cases contain circular holes in them. Ranging from 4 to 11 centimetres (1.6 to 4.3 in) in size, they also vary in terms of textures. Most are made of bronze but some are made of stone. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/Roman_dodecahedron_jpg-863705.JPG (more at link) |
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Originally Posted By brass:
Something, yes. I'm guessing easier to move and fast to fill, any type of gravel, etc. I just call it dirt for shorthand. "Not Square perfectly finished blocks", or maybe they are, just smaller ones, but that's how I'd do it with their assumed tech level. No outside ramp, and that's how I can think thye'd get all the channels/tunnels perfect View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg No outside ramp, and that's how I can think thye'd get all the channels/tunnels perfect You look at third Dynasty when they switched from mud brick and reeds to first working in stone. They cut small stones and fitted it like mud brick and they shaped their buildings to look like mud and reed structures. 100 years later the fourth dynasty built the great pyramids. i do not believe it. 100 years after that and they were building shitty pyramids that are now just collapsed piles of rubble. cargo cult. IMO they came into the area, found stuff, invented a mythos to explain it and built their own stuff on top of and around it. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
These structures were built out of granite without the use of metal tools perhaps a thousand years before the Inca people discovered them. The Incia people found these ruins and did their own buildings on top of the ancient structures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpjJxN17VBs View Quote |
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br View Quote Cycles man.. Cycles. Who wrote the book? .gov or a non-gov author? Wondering why classified and shortened? Why didn't I see this before? ( likely because I never spent time focused on these things, only engineering/ancient/past/lost ways of making/creating/building, etc. Not a "big picture" of pre-history, I can't even get a reliable picture of our current history today. I agree that the Egyptians didn't build the Pyramids. They only used clay to try and preserve the walls and the Sphinx. That much information, from a project that lasted 20-200 years (opinions vary), couldn't have simply vanished without An Event. The new buildings being inferior, the patches in walls being nowhere near the precision and quality of the existing walls, had to be several centuries between them, or lots more. As to the other topic on "the Ramps Did it!", it was meant as a conceptual outline putting together several ideas, as well as I'd go about building it most efficiently. That's the only thing I can come up with for the exact spacing and angled pieces above King's Chamber, as well as other large rocks fitted perfectly on the sides, or even in the middle. Solution covers altitude, shallow ramps with long curves. No major feature directly above a different feature, Working it from bottom up, is only way I can come up with. How to get up there, using the ramps, they had plenty of room for shallow ramps which could have been filled in partially for a section, and a new section made (I'd have to draw that, and I suck at CAD, no way I can do a CAD Animation like people expect today since theyre used to seeing them. People need to re-grow imaginations, read book instead of video summaries, etc. I simply cannot see anybody building an external ramp only to have to tear it down at the end. That's a modern way as we have self-supporting steel frameworks to get altitude, which is relatively little work to remove when finished. This may be purely bullshit with a pretty cover, without the cover, it's just an idea, hasn't moved to a theory unless there's some input from others. Sort of reminds me of another thread, where people can't hold more than one theory in mind at once, because if they have one, all the others must be wrong. Start playing with theories on useless stuff, like starting from scratch on survival in alpine territory. Then read a few different pieces saying what you need to survive in Alpine conditions from survival experts then some from people actually rescued in Alpine conditions. The equipment, wish lists, and methods are slightly different in most cases for things outside 'the basics'. Beginning conditions of getting stuck in Alpine conditions are varied, that doesn't mean any of the methods used that worked are "bad". If you're an expert on alpine survival, disregard. The whole idea is to think about random things you have no emotional attachment to as far as good/bad, right/wrong. Play with the ideas. Read only data, not existing theories (sometimes prefixed with "conspiracy'). Come up with your own, then read (or, sigh, watcha videoif you must while learning), and keep modifying your idea. Example - How many people wanted to go the Pacific Ocean prior to Lewis and Clark? How would you do it? |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By brass:
Thanks! Cycles man.. Cycles. Who wrote the book? .gov or a non-gov author? Wondering why classified and shortened? Why didn't I see this before? ( likely because I never spent time focused on these things, only engineering/ancient/past/lost ways of making/creating/building, etc. Not a "big picture" of pre-history, I can't even get a reliable picture of our current history today. I agree that the Egyptians didn't build the Pyramids. They only used clay to try and preserve the walls and the Sphinx. That much information, from a project that lasted 20-200 years (opinions vary), couldn't have simply vanished without An Event. The new buildings being inferior, the patches in walls being nowhere near the precision and quality of the existing walls, had to be several centuries between them, or lots more. As to the other topic on "the Ramps Did it!", it was meant as a conceptual outline putting together several ideas, as well as I'd go about building it most efficiently. That's the only thing I can come up with for the exact spacing and angled pieces above King's Chamber, as well as other large rocks fitted perfectly on the sides, or even in the middle. Solution covers altitude, shallow ramps with long curves. No major feature directly above a different feature, Working it from bottom up, is only way I can come up with. How to get up there, using the ramps, they had plenty of room for shallow ramps which could have been filled in partially for a section, and a new section made (I'd have to draw that, and I suck at CAD, no way I can do a CAD Animation like people expect today since theyre used to seeing them. People need to re-grow imaginations, read book instead of video summaries, etc. I simply cannot see anybody building an external ramp only to have to tear it down at the end. That's a modern way as we have self-supporting steel frameworks to get altitude, which is relatively little work to remove when finished. This may be purely bullshit with a pretty cover, without the cover, it's just an idea, hasn't moved to a theory unless there's some input from others. Sort of reminds me of another thread, where people can't hold more than one theory in mind at once, because if they have one, all the others must be wrong. Start playing with theories on useless stuff, like starting from scratch on survival in alpine territory. Then read a few different pieces saying what you need to survive in Alpine conditions from survival experts then some from people actually rescued in Alpine conditions. The equipment, wish lists, and methods are slightly different in most cases for things outside 'the basics'. Beginning conditions of getting stuck in Alpine conditions are varied, that doesn't mean any of the methods used that worked are "bad". If you're an expert on alpine survival, disregard. The whole idea is to think about random things you have no emotional attachment to as far as good/bad, right/wrong. Play with the ideas. Read only data, not existing theories (sometimes prefixed with "conspiracy'). Come up with your own, then read (or, sigh, watcha videoif you must while learning), and keep modifying your idea. Example - How many people wanted to go the Pacific Ocean prior to Lewis and Clark? How would you do it? View Quote Lots of room for people to work in concert. It strikes me that who ever built them had a plan for every stage of the build before they started. One ramp is slow. 8 main ramps with off shoots. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Massive Egyptian Stone Statues - The Colossi of Memnon - Lost Ancient Civilizations |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Agreed. The thing about monumental structures is that they're made with aesthetics in mind. The pyramids are the solitary wonder that don't really seem to have had any aesthetic purpose whatsoever, inside or out. Compare them to the Colossus, the Hanging Gardens, etc. Or even modern wonders like the Taj Mahal. Yes, you can argue that the pyramids have a certain stark aesthetic appeal, but that same aesthetic could have been achieved MUCH easier. Not only that, but all indications are that the Great Pyramid at least didn't ever have a capstone. Herodotus claims that it was in perfect condition within his lifetime, fully intact, with no capstone. The whole Giza plateau lacks any aesthetic appeal really, and I don't think it would have looked a whole lot better in its prime. The landscaping around the pyramids is butt ugly. Probably the biggest problem with the pyramid as a tomb theory though is that Egyptians, especially wealthy ones, lived in mortal fear of having their tombs looted. Their idea of salvation was completely dependent upon having certain burial rites. They believed that if someone were to break in and steal their books of the dead, destroy the paintings, disturb their mummy, etc. that it would have severe repercussions in the afterlife. Egyptian nobility were extremely preoccupied with finding secret locations for their tombs and leaving absolutely no outward trace of them. Their tombs would have been in a restricted area to begin with, and even if you managed to gain access without getting caught, you weren't supposed to be able to find the individual tombs. I don't think any pharaoh would have willingly allowed himself to be entombed in something that you could see for miles. Plus he knows good and well that as soon as he kicks off, the next guy might throw him in a ditch and take his place. Pharaohs were more concerned about rivals and successors than they were about the general tomb raiding public. There are numerous examples of successors trying to erase their predecessor's name from the history books. So they definitely would have been worried about a successor desecrating their tombs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By waterglass: If they served no purpose, to build them in the first place is really stupid. only a stupid motherfucker would build it. Stupid motherfuckers are stupid motherfuckers. There is no shortage of things built by stupid motherfuckers that at a glance lets you know it was stupid motherfuckers what built it. The pyramids of Giza are not among them. A pragmatic motherfucker built those, with a pragmatic purpose. Compare them to the Colossus, the Hanging Gardens, etc. Or even modern wonders like the Taj Mahal. Yes, you can argue that the pyramids have a certain stark aesthetic appeal, but that same aesthetic could have been achieved MUCH easier. Not only that, but all indications are that the Great Pyramid at least didn't ever have a capstone. Herodotus claims that it was in perfect condition within his lifetime, fully intact, with no capstone. The whole Giza plateau lacks any aesthetic appeal really, and I don't think it would have looked a whole lot better in its prime. The landscaping around the pyramids is butt ugly. Probably the biggest problem with the pyramid as a tomb theory though is that Egyptians, especially wealthy ones, lived in mortal fear of having their tombs looted. Their idea of salvation was completely dependent upon having certain burial rites. They believed that if someone were to break in and steal their books of the dead, destroy the paintings, disturb their mummy, etc. that it would have severe repercussions in the afterlife. Egyptian nobility were extremely preoccupied with finding secret locations for their tombs and leaving absolutely no outward trace of them. Their tombs would have been in a restricted area to begin with, and even if you managed to gain access without getting caught, you weren't supposed to be able to find the individual tombs. I don't think any pharaoh would have willingly allowed himself to be entombed in something that you could see for miles. Plus he knows good and well that as soon as he kicks off, the next guy might throw him in a ditch and take his place. Pharaohs were more concerned about rivals and successors than they were about the general tomb raiding public. There are numerous examples of successors trying to erase their predecessor's name from the history books. So they definitely would have been worried about a successor desecrating their tombs. Anyway, by the time the 3rd pyramid was built by Menkaure, there was a shift in the focus of worship for the Egyptians. Ra had become the main focus, and while the pharaoh was still seen as a god-king, it wasn't to the extent of what had been, prior to Menkaure. It was essentially a political coup by the priests. So, the nobility in general may have been looking for secret places, but, for a brief period; a few pharaoh's were trying to cement the godhood of themselves. There would't exist a better way then building a vast structure to house your Akh(body), and for all to know about it. Within Egyptian beliefs, it can't be stated enough, how immensely powerful that message was. Khufu was projecting an image of total power, with putting his body in a known location for all to see. He was confident that nothing would had to his body, if anything, did his Ka and Ba would be unable to reunite every night. He would in other words, be spiritually dead. |
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Herd immunity is a thing for computers too. Anti-updaters are just another form of anti-vaxxers. -dmnoid77
Colonialism, bringing ethnic diversity to a continent near you. - My Father |
Originally Posted By brass:
https://i.imgur.com/98ATJHE.jpg Angle of sides: 51.3° Odd the Egyptians and Romans chose that exact same angle to pile together! (making me think that's the reason that angle was used on pyramids ,inside - out with extra features) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By verticalgain:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
People suggesting that some sort of "spiral ramp" around the pyramid to move the stones up to the higher levels doesn't make sense for me. https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/image/pyramiden-rampen/wendelrampe-probleme.GIF In the illustration to get the stone to point "A" the slaves pulling the stone would have to go off the end of the ramp in order to get the stone ready to pull around the corner. Not to mention that the angle of the ramps incline would be too steep to pull 5 ton blocks up. At Masada, around 5000 Romans built a 375 foot tall ramp from sand and small stones in the Judean mountains in the span of around 100 days. Angle of sides: 51.3° Odd the Egyptians and Romans chose that exact same angle to pile together! (making me think that's the reason that angle was used on pyramids ,inside - out with extra features) IIRC, those pyramids and the first one at Giza, were close enough in time for an architect and an apprentice to cover the construction, aka a working body of knowledge continuity. |
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Herd immunity is a thing for computers too. Anti-updaters are just another form of anti-vaxxers. -dmnoid77
Colonialism, bringing ethnic diversity to a continent near you. - My Father |
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br View Quote If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. Attached File From the video: Attached File I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. |
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Originally Posted By brass:
Invert your image, rock on outside, spiral ramp in the inside of the pyramid, which is filled with dirt as they go. Each level, the make a pile of dirt, stack rocks on the outside for a level or two, and continue, with the dirt walk at a shallow angle, such as 2 "courses" per "lap" around the inside, while leaving a few open on one "edge" to get the dirt in. The rocks could be pulled up that gentle incline on rollers, or pulled up, dragging on the points of the rocks below, either way is an option. No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Rossi:
It's a neat theory. However, I have a few questions about it, keeping in mind a minimum 1 block every 2 minutes rate to meet the 20 years deadline. 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. |
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Herd immunity is a thing for computers too. Anti-updaters are just another form of anti-vaxxers. -dmnoid77
Colonialism, bringing ethnic diversity to a continent near you. - My Father |
Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
To go along with my post above: See in this drawing the men have reached the end of the ramp and the stone is 30 feet short of being able to pull up the next ramp. I feel that extending the ramps past the face of the pyramid would have been to much of a difficult task, let alone if they were tunnel ramps inside the pyramid and not ramps on the outside. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg View Quote Things we don't know about the internal ramps: How extensive and the exact placement of the corners. If the turning operation is moved in, say 3 courses from the outside edge, there is quite a bit of room to move around. |
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Herd immunity is a thing for computers too. Anti-updaters are just another form of anti-vaxxers. -dmnoid77
Colonialism, bringing ethnic diversity to a continent near you. - My Father |
Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
One of my problems with the inside ramp theory is the corners they would have to pull around to go up the next ramp. If the stones weighed 3 tons and even if only 20 men pulled it the men would be in front of the stone for about 30 feet more or less. In the drawing below pulling from A to B once the the stone would get to X the pullers would have reached the end of the ramp/tunnel in front of the stone. How would they move it 30+ feet more forward to make the pull from B to C. ETA This assumes that 20 men could each pull 300 pounds uphill and 3 tones is the smaller of the stones used. https://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee420/RIO-lover/PYRAMID%20INSIDE%20RAMPS%20LABELED%20X_zpsf2ecnxfy.jpg View Quote I'm attacking the assumption the enitre core of the Pyramids is perfectly cut and fitted, large stone blocks. The outside stones are just a decoration for a pile of .. something, in the center, with the enclosures built on the way up. That method would allow precise positioning and lining of tunnels/tubes/galleries at any angle, lined with stone, as well. I jus tossed out as an idea, has little input on those in the Orient, a few of the South American pyramids are most certainly dirt with stone facade, etc. If groups went worldwide post pyramid, they'd likely use similar methods to build them elsewhere, or simply the knowledge any why they need to be built elsewhere around the world. Half the others have a step in the sides as well as a smaller human staircase up the side. etc. Lots of assumptions made, it doesn't answer all the questions, but with a ramp 20 to 50' wide on the inside, or even multiples, there's still plenty of room to go around corners, until nearing the top, when the number of stones reduces inversely square to the height and construction goes much faster, needing fewer blocks. --ETA: Analogy: Have you ever slid a washer/dryer up/down basement stairs resting on the stair points alone? Maybe with a handcart having a belt to span the points of stairs as not to mar stairs or appliance? Same theory. point/knife bearings work pretty well. |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Another video talking about the shafts and a sealed door in the great pyramid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cySS12tBa5w View Quote |
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Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
1. The internal spiral ramps weren't used for the granite over the King's Chamber. Working theory is a counter balance system using the Grand Gallery and a ramp for the granite only. Explains quite a few of the design choices for the Grand Gallery. 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. 3) The Grand Gallery's ceiling is designed to hold weight and is narrower than the hypothesized tunnel ramps. That means they would have build wider galleries in order to pass with all the stuff through them, plus hold the weight of the stuff passing over them. We are talking about cycling loads, not just static loads. There should be some evidence of those ramps, if they were that big. Anything found that points into that direction? |
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br View Quote |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Finally had time to watch it. Interesting proposition. If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By brass:
You can buy the redacted book foronly $10 per page. www.amazon.com/dp/B0007ET2KI View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br www.amazon.com/dp/B0007ET2KI |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
They didn't have harnesses. They looped leather around the horns to pull plows. Generally two cows are shown pulling a narrow wooden plow in their art of the time. The shoulder harness wasn't a thing in Egypt until long after the giza complex was built. View Quote |
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If some catastrophic event happens and most of humanity is wiped from the face of the earth, the only people left to hang out with will be you guys! Oh the horror! -- Boombastic
No situation is ever so bad that the government can't make it worse. |
Originally Posted By waterglass:
You can get it free. The vids in the playlist have links to lots of free stuff, books, papers, more videos. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br www.amazon.com/dp/B0007ET2KI |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
Despite what you may have heard, black lives don't matter. Only white killers matter. -- Locke556 |
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Watch the play list. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. |
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Originally Posted By Rossi:
I watched a couple more. Stopped in that one about the "instantly frozen mammoth". Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. From the comments section: http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/flash-frozen-mammoths-and-their-buttercups-yet-another-case-of-repetition-and-recycling-of-bad-data View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. But it does a good job of explaining why people think CMEs could cause crust displacement and end civilizations. IDK. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
The playlist has nothing to do with the earth flipping over. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. |
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Originally Posted By Rossi:
One of the videos there repeats the "instant freeze" as an evidence of past "catastrophes". This is not related to "the flipping"? I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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I'm going to go with.........
.....the Incas! I know it's a stretch but I am holding firm! Do not under estimate the power and ingenuity of a large group of people sitting around with nothing better to do. Also, I hate to tell you,.....the Jews built the pyramids. I read a book about it. |
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
I think the fact that plants were undigested in their stomachs is what he was referencing. As in the animals went from warm enough for flowering plants to cold enough to freeze and stop digestion in a very short period. digestion does not stop when an animal dies. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. |
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Originally Posted By Bigtard:
I believe the Antediluvian civilizations were far more advanced than is generally believed. And then came the cataclysm around 12k years ago that wiped most of the planet clean. View Quote then Commu-Nazis rose to power and destroyed everything including killing off the intelligent people so they could not challenge the leadership. Human history, wash, rinse, repeat. |
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Originally Posted By Rossi:
Did you read the article I posted? It's one of many debunking that. There were undigested plants stuck in between is teeth. That mammoth had a sudden death, not a sudden freeze. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
However they died, Their have been many found with the stomach contents intact. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. Anyway... I read the article you posted twice and did not see anything about food. They mention how the blood is so well preserved that they want to try "de-extincting" it. This brings the ethical discussion up about messing up with science and nature. I'd be split about it as well, since there's a lot to learn about it. Yet, bringing back an extinct animal might also bring unintended consequences. It's actually not much different than creating the genetically modified mosquitoes in an effort to extinct them to eliminate a disease. |
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Originally Posted By brass:
The core is crushed limestone/easier to carry tings, smaller stones/etc. The rocks on the outside are long enough to be pulled straight up the sides using the existing points of stone courses as bearings to pull straight up the side, pulled with stone and a few people on the inside through a bunch of rope/pulley type contratption. Not take the long way the builders take filling the inside, with lighter indidual loads. If they had an advanced enough pulley system, or, alien technology (of course), it could have been done in as little as 80 years. I'm attacking the assumption the enitre core of the Pyramids is perfectly cut and fitted, large stone blocks. The outside stones are just a decoration for a pile of .. something, in the center, with the enclosures built on the way up. That method would allow precise positioning and lining of tunnels/tubes/galleries at any angle, lined with stone, as well. I jus tossed out as an idea, has little input on those in the Orient, a few of the South American pyramids are most certainly dirt with stone facade, etc. If groups went worldwide post pyramid, they'd likely use similar methods to build them elsewhere, or simply the knowledge any why they need to be built elsewhere around the world. Half the others have a step in the sides as well as a smaller human staircase up the side. etc. Lots of assumptions made, it doesn't answer all the questions, but with a ramp 20 to 50' wide on the inside, or even multiples, there's still plenty of room to go around corners, until nearing the top, when the number of stones reduces inversely square to the height and construction goes much faster, needing fewer blocks. --ETA: Analogy: Have you ever slid a washer/dryer up/down basement stairs resting on the stair points alone? Maybe with a handcart having a belt to span the points of stairs as not to mar stairs or appliance? Same theory. point/knife bearings work pretty well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
One of my problems with the inside ramp theory is the corners they would have to pull around to go up the next ramp. If the stones weighed 3 tons and even if only 20 men pulled it the men would be in front of the stone for about 30 feet more or less. In the drawing below pulling from A to B once the the stone would get to X the pullers would have reached the end of the ramp/tunnel in front of the stone. How would they move it 30+ feet more forward to make the pull from B to C. ETA This assumes that 20 men could each pull 300 pounds uphill and 3 tones is the smaller of the stones used. https://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee420/RIO-lover/PYRAMID%20INSIDE%20RAMPS%20LABELED%20X_zpsf2ecnxfy.jpg I'm attacking the assumption the enitre core of the Pyramids is perfectly cut and fitted, large stone blocks. The outside stones are just a decoration for a pile of .. something, in the center, with the enclosures built on the way up. That method would allow precise positioning and lining of tunnels/tubes/galleries at any angle, lined with stone, as well. I jus tossed out as an idea, has little input on those in the Orient, a few of the South American pyramids are most certainly dirt with stone facade, etc. If groups went worldwide post pyramid, they'd likely use similar methods to build them elsewhere, or simply the knowledge any why they need to be built elsewhere around the world. Half the others have a step in the sides as well as a smaller human staircase up the side. etc. Lots of assumptions made, it doesn't answer all the questions, but with a ramp 20 to 50' wide on the inside, or even multiples, there's still plenty of room to go around corners, until nearing the top, when the number of stones reduces inversely square to the height and construction goes much faster, needing fewer blocks. --ETA: Analogy: Have you ever slid a washer/dryer up/down basement stairs resting on the stair points alone? Maybe with a handcart having a belt to span the points of stairs as not to mar stairs or appliance? Same theory. point/knife bearings work pretty well. |
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Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: We have no indication that the next two Pharaohs after Khufu, in most writings they are either his son and grandson, or at the least very close family; were trying to erase his existence. Khufu was the first Pharaoh of the 4th Dynasty, IIRC. Anyway, by the time the 3rd pyramid was built by Menkaure, there was a shift in the focus of worship for the Egyptians. Ra had become the main focus, and while the pharaoh was still seen as a god-king, it wasn't to the extent of what had been, prior to Menkaure. It was essentially a political coup by the priests. So, the nobility in general may have been looking for secret places, but, for a brief period; a few pharaoh's were trying to cement the godhood of themselves. There would't exist a better way then building a vast structure to house your Akh(body), and for all to know about it. Within Egyptian beliefs, it can't be stated enough, how immensely powerful that message was. Khufu was projecting an image of total power, with putting his body in a known location for all to see. He was confident that nothing would had to his body, if anything, did his Ka and Ba would be unable to reunite every night. He would in other words, be spiritually dead. View Quote Put yourself in that position, where you actually believed that tomb raiders thousands of years in the future could fuck up your afterlife. Would you have yourself buried in the world's most recognizable structure, or would you pick a top secret location where no one would ever have any obvious reason to go looking? |
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Just because I live in my parent's basement doesn't make my unfounded opinions any less valid.
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Originally Posted By Rossi: Now that you mention religion, I saw a few comments about it. It's insane that some folks would mess-up data just to confirm their beliefs. Yet, we are seeing the whole "climate change" debacle... Anyway... I read the article you posted twice and did not see anything about food. They mention how the blood is so well preserved that they want to try "de-extincting" it. This brings the ethical discussion up about messing up with science and nature. I'd be split about it as well, since there's a lot to learn about it. Yet, bringing back an extinct animal might also bring unintended consequences. It's actually not much different than creating the genetically modified mosquitoes in an effort to extinct them to eliminate a disease. View Quote This is not the documentary I remember watching, and this is a different mammoth, less preserved I think. Skip to 1 hour and 15 minutes to see stomach contents and tissue. the documentary makes it clear that Siberia seems to be a little studied chaotic place. National Geographic Mammoth Unearthed Documentry I can't find it now, but I remember reading about how they were able to get an idea of the make up of mammoth milk from the contents of the stomach of a baby mammoth. You can still see red meat on the one in the link and in the vid. The problem seems to be that as the ice melt rivers expose them, they freeze and thaw and go rancid or get eaten before they are found, or the illegal ivory hunters never report intact animals or intentionally destroy them. here are a few more that have been found. I suggest muting the video. It is visual only and the music sucks. Failed To Load Title |
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" Declaratory statement oooozing conviction, written a long time ago." - Little Known Famous Dead Guy.
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Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Well, the Egyptians didn't start with that angle, we know that courtesy of the Bent Pyramid. I don't favor the internal dirt fill due to settling and the Egyptians had experience with that issue, from the Step Pyramid. IIRC, those pyramids and the first one at Giza, were close enough in time for an architect and an apprentice to cover the construction, aka a working body of knowledge continuity. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Rossi:
1) The Grand Gallery's width varies from 7 ft at the bottom to just 3ft at the top. How could they pull the granite boulders through this? 3) The Grand Gallery's ceiling is designed to hold weight and is narrower than the hypothesized tunnel ramps. That means they would have build wider galleries in order to pass with all the stuff through them, plus hold the weight of the stuff passing over them. We are talking about cycling loads, not just static loads. There should be some evidence of those ramps, if they were that big. Anything found that points into that direction? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. 3) The Grand Gallery's ceiling is designed to hold weight and is narrower than the hypothesized tunnel ramps. That means they would have build wider galleries in order to pass with all the stuff through them, plus hold the weight of the stuff passing over them. We are talking about cycling loads, not just static loads. There should be some evidence of those ramps, if they were that big. Anything found that points into that direction? They didn't bring the granite through the Grand Gallery. And yes there is some evidence, between the gravimetric survey showing a clear spiral structure and the archaeologist that surveyed a exposed notch high up on the north side(IIRC), that had tunnels leading in both directions. The notch was at the correct height, as predicted by the architect that proposed the internal spiral ramp hypothesis. |
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Herd immunity is a thing for computers too. Anti-updaters are just another form of anti-vaxxers. -dmnoid77
Colonialism, bringing ethnic diversity to a continent near you. - My Father |
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
I remember watching a documentary on either this one or another found around the same time. Its stomach is intact. This is not the documentary I remember watching, and this is a different mammoth, less preserved I think. Skip to 1 hour and 15 minutes to see stomach contents and tissue. the documentary makes it clear that Siberia seems to be a little studied chaotic place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMWlH3ZOQXM I can't find it now, but I remember reading about how they were able to get an idea of the make up of mammoth milk from the contents of the stomach of a baby mammoth. You can still see red meat on the one in the link and in the vid. The problem seems to be that as the ice melt rivers expose them, they freeze and thaw and go rancid or get eaten before they are found, or the illegal ivory hunters never report intact animals or intentionally destroy them. here are a few more that have been found. I suggest muting the video. It is visual only and the music sucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLI980fr2K0 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi: Now that you mention religion, I saw a few comments about it. It's insane that some folks would mess-up data just to confirm their beliefs. Yet, we are seeing the whole "climate change" debacle... Anyway... I read the article you posted twice and did not see anything about food. They mention how the blood is so well preserved that they want to try "de-extincting" it. This brings the ethical discussion up about messing up with science and nature. I'd be split about it as well, since there's a lot to learn about it. Yet, bringing back an extinct animal might also bring unintended consequences. It's actually not much different than creating the genetically modified mosquitoes in an effort to extinct them to eliminate a disease. This is not the documentary I remember watching, and this is a different mammoth, less preserved I think. Skip to 1 hour and 15 minutes to see stomach contents and tissue. the documentary makes it clear that Siberia seems to be a little studied chaotic place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMWlH3ZOQXM I can't find it now, but I remember reading about how they were able to get an idea of the make up of mammoth milk from the contents of the stomach of a baby mammoth. You can still see red meat on the one in the link and in the vid. The problem seems to be that as the ice melt rivers expose them, they freeze and thaw and go rancid or get eaten before they are found, or the illegal ivory hunters never report intact animals or intentionally destroy them. here are a few more that have been found. I suggest muting the video. It is visual only and the music sucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLI980fr2K0 This is a very interesting topic because it can prove that Earth's climate underwent massive changes and, maybe, could have decimated entire civilizations and either extinguished them or forced them to move somewhere else. Antarctica is a place that intrigues me. It was a warm place with vegetation, rivers and, maybe, even some people living there. https://www.livescience.com/27715-antarctica-before-ice.html I recall the Russians found a deep lake that was completely isolated by the ice cap and the water was untouched for a very long time. After two decades of drilling in most inhospitable place on Earth, Russian scientists return home with barrelful of water from ‘alien’ lake untouched for 20 million years They took some samples and apparently found some interesting stuff. Russian scientists have reported discovering a new life form in subglacial Lake Vostok in Antarctica. Interestingly, experts say that the newly discovered lifeform is only 86% genetically similar to all known living organisms. In 2016, Sergei Bulat, head of the cryobiology laboratory at the University of Nuclear Physics in St. Petersburg, announced the discovery of a new life form in Antarctica: a bacterium found in a subglacial lake that could only be accessed after drilling through four kilometers of ice. With 14 million square kilometers, covering 10% of Earth’s surface, covered by 90% of the planet’s mostly frozen fresh water, and large areas still unexplored, it shouldn’t be a novelty that researchers have discovered new lifeforms in the form a bacteria in Antarctica. As it turns out, there are still hundreds and even thousands of microscopic species that are still unclassified and unidentified on Earth, and some of them are located in the most inaccessible and remote places on our planet. However, there are quite a few extraordinary details which make w123-10—as the new member of life on Earth has been baptized— special. Only 86% of its genome is similar to the rest of the known organisms; the remaining percentage is New to science. This fact makes this new bacterium an extremely interesting being for geneticists. The second singularity is the place where it was found: Lake Vostok. (more at link) I wonder what else we will find in that continent. Another one to learn more about is Greenland, which was indeed green not so long ago, compared to Antarctica. |
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Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
They didn't bring the granite through the Grand Gallery. And yes there is some evidence, between the gravimetric survey showing a clear spiral structure and the archaeologist that surveyed a exposed notch high up on the north side(IIRC), that had tunnels leading in both directions. The notch was at the correct height, as predicted by the architect that proposed the internal spiral ramp hypothesis. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. 3) The Grand Gallery's ceiling is designed to hold weight and is narrower than the hypothesized tunnel ramps. That means they would have build wider galleries in order to pass with all the stuff through them, plus hold the weight of the stuff passing over them. We are talking about cycling loads, not just static loads. There should be some evidence of those ramps, if they were that big. Anything found that points into that direction? They didn't bring the granite through the Grand Gallery. And yes there is some evidence, between the gravimetric survey showing a clear spiral structure and the archaeologist that surveyed a exposed notch high up on the north side(IIRC), that had tunnels leading in both directions. The notch was at the correct height, as predicted by the architect that proposed the internal spiral ramp hypothesis. |
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...right off the bat and still one of the most relevant and honest posts in the thread.
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