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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:27:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you like pooping your pants it's a good idea to ease into it - a day or two the first week and add from there.  How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:30:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that this is a perfect example of the old saw that "we are an experiment of one". I think that you have to find what works for you. I have done keto and carnivore in varying amount for the last few years with a few breaks in there due to indulgence or laziness and I have maintained my initial 30 lb loss consistently. What I haven't done is go any lower weight wise (which is frustrating), but I have had a some bigger body changes with no change in the scale. Around 3" inches on the waist reduction with zero weight change and I have maintained muscle mass. This was important to me as I age. I think we all have varying tolerances for different kinds of food and if you listen to your body you can figure out what makes you feel best and perform the best that you can. Pick a method, stick with it long enough to get results and then start modifying as necessary. The most important thing is to be as healthy and strong as you can be with whatever works for your body. Feeling tired, bloated and sick all the time sucks. And for all of the under 40 crowd, do the work now, it gets harder the older you get.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm far from a doctor, but my understanding is that you need glycogen to burn fat. A few carbs can help get you lean. I think when the diet pendulum swings too far to one side, we get lesser results. If I go too extreme in calorie cutting, my workout suffers. I don't build muscle and my energy levels are way off. If I ingest too many carbs, I get bloated and my energy level is off. So I reduce carb intake, eat high protein fish (salmon, tuna, and Asian carp) and chicken, combined with high fiber veggies. It seems to work well and I can sneak a whole wheat bread turkey sandwich from time to time. I think we all have varying tolerances for different kinds of food and if you listen to your body you can figure out what makes you feel best and perform the best that you can. Pick a method, stick with it long enough to get results and then start modifying as necessary. The most important thing is to be as healthy and strong as you can be with whatever works for your body. Feeling tired, bloated and sick all the time sucks. And for all of the under 40 crowd, do the work now, it gets harder the older you get. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:32:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unless you like pooping your pants it's a good idea to ease into it - a day or two the first week and add from there. How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? I don't think it's the addition of extra meat, it's the absence of any ruffage. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:34:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think it's the addition of extra meat, it's the absence of any ruffage. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you like pooping your pants it's a good idea to ease into it - a day or two the first week and add from there. How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? I don't think it's the addition of extra meat, it's the absence of any ruffage. When I go meat/eggs heavy and light on carbs I poop quite a bit less. Goes from every morning to every other morning sometimes. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:35:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I go meat/eggs heavy and light on carbs I poop quite a bit less. Goes from every morning to every other morning sometimes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you like pooping your pants it's a good idea to ease into it - a day or two the first week and add from there. How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? I don't think it's the addition of extra meat, it's the absence of any ruffage. When I go meat/eggs heavy and light on carbs I poop quite a bit less. Goes from every morning to every other morning sometimes. Eventually I do, too, but the first few days could go through a screen-door without hitting anything
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:39:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eventually I do, too, but the first few days could go through a screen-door without hitting anything Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you like pooping your pants it's a good idea to ease into it - a day or two the first week and add from there. How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? I don't think it's the addition of extra meat, it's the absence of any ruffage. When I go meat/eggs heavy and light on carbs I poop quite a bit less. Goes from every morning to every other morning sometimes. Eventually I do, too, but the first few days could go through a screen-door without hitting anything Everyone's gut biome is different. Meat and fat have almost never given me issues. Too much sugar though and things can really get shaken loose. Watermelon for some reason gets me bad, I have to go easy on it because it fast tracks it's way to the exit. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:43:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just curious as to what the benefit to not eating vegetables is. Herbivores:    Carnivores:    |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:44:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plants often produce toxins as their defense against predation, since they can’t run. The theory is that less toxins equals less inflammation and immune system issues. I personally think that as long as you’re getting enough fat it’ll probably work out just fine. A lot of the theorizing is that those numerous various phytochemicals are actually beneficial, since plant rich diets produce better health outcomes than ones in which all the big nutrients are covered via supplementation. I don't think it'll hurt short term, but I suspect people getting results for reasons such as far fewer processed foods and simple carbs and the hunger suppressive effects of protein leading to a lower caloric consumption when people eat ad libidum. Basically, people just want a wonder diet where they can eat all they want and lose weight. If you do want to eat nothing but meat, you have to eat a lot of organ meats. That's where animals store all kinds of vitamins and nutrients. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:53:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Herbivores: https://cdn.hswstatic.com/gif/hippo-sunscreen.jpg https://www.iucn.org/sites/dev/files/styles/850x500_no_menu_article/public/content/images/2020/south-western_black_rhino_facing_right_c_dave_hamman_photography.jpg?itok=Q7SkAeKV https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/d9/94/e2d9947a14c1d2d996fcfb0270186f44.jpg Carnivores: https://lp-cms-production.imgix.net/image_browser/leopard-africa-safari.jpg?format=auto?crop=entropy&fit=crop&h=421&sharp=10&vib=20&w=748 https://assets-jpcust.jwpsrv.com/thumbnails/rytmbwxn-720.jpg https://imgk.timesnownews.com/story/black_panther.jpg?tr=w-1200,h-900 Gorillas and horses are vegetarians and are jacked as fuck, as are omnivorous chimps. I'm all for meat. I love it. I feel best eating lots of meat and lots of veggies. I'm just immensely skeptical of all this talk about how it's impossible to get healthy or lose weight on a "normal" diet. America was a country of non-fatasses for a long time. That changed with the prevalence of processed (calorically dense, non filling) food and huge portions. "Calories in, calories out" isn't everything. But it is a huge thing (probably like 80% plus, according to Israetel). |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 6:58:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorillas and horses are vegetarians and are jacked as fuck, as are omnivorous chimps. I'm all for meat. I love it. I feel best eating lots of meat and lots of veggies. I'm just immensely skeptical of all this talk about how it's impossible to get healthy or lose weight on a "normal" diet. America was a country of non-fatasses for a long time. That changed with the prevalence of processed (calorically dense, non filling) food and huge portions. "Calories in, calories out" isn't everything. But it is a huge thing (probably like 80% plus, according to Israetel). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Herbivores: https://cdn.hswstatic.com/gif/hippo-sunscreen.jpg https://www.iucn.org/sites/dev/files/styles/850x500_no_menu_article/public/content/images/2020/south-western_black_rhino_facing_right_c_dave_hamman_photography.jpg?itok=Q7SkAeKV https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/d9/94/e2d9947a14c1d2d996fcfb0270186f44.jpg Carnivores: https://lp-cms-production.imgix.net/image_browser/leopard-africa-safari.jpg?format=auto?crop=entropy&fit=crop&h=421&sharp=10&vib=20&w=748 https://assets-jpcust.jwpsrv.com/thumbnails/rytmbwxn-720.jpg https://imgk.timesnownews.com/story/black_panther.jpg?tr=w-1200,h-900 Gorillas and horses are vegetarians and are jacked as fuck, as are omnivorous chimps. I'm all for meat. I love it. I feel best eating lots of meat and lots of veggies. I'm just immensely skeptical of all this talk about how it's impossible to get healthy or lose weight on a "normal" diet. America was a country of non-fatasses for a long time. That changed with the prevalence of processed (calorically dense, non filling) food and huge portions. "Calories in, calories out" isn't everything. But it is a huge thing (probably like 80% plus, according to Israetel). You have to quantify "normal" Normal now seems to be massive portions, with carb heavy food, which is fine if you are burning 3000-4000 calories a day, but most people aren't. Even physical labor is way less labor instensive now, we have diesel and hydraulics. Civilization popped up and flourished when farming became popular, we could easily store calorie dense carb based food for long periods of time, so people were able to specialize their labor. Those people did just fine like that, being very fat used to be a sign of wealth, because it meant you could eat more than most people and did far less work. Now being fat is just a sign of lack of self control. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:01:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meat is really tasty, but there's lots of other non-meat stuff that's really tasty too. Nah. Diets that are highly restrictive tend to have results like this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We had a lot of men in our church do it a few years back. Most lost some, but now are fatter than ever. Meat is really tasty, but there's lots of other non-meat stuff that's really tasty too. Nah. Diets that are highly restrictive tend to have results like this. If somebody were to say, for example, go straight carnivore for 30 days and then decide it kinds of sucks, they should start adding fresh vegetables and tubers into their diet. Maybe a little fruit in there for some sweet. You know, start cooking with a little garlic, onion, mushroom and such. Make a decent side salad (without drowning it in store-bought dressing and croutons...), and that sort of thing. They could just start adding real fucking food back into their diet, and go from there. Tweak as needed. What they tend to do, is swing the pendulum HARD in the other direction, and add back all kinds of processed unhealthy bullshit. "I tried it and I lost weight, but it's too hard. So I ate a sleeve of Girl Scout Thin Mints, boiled half a pound of spaghetti noodles, poured a heated up jar of Prego over it, buttered up a load of French bread, and scarfed that down. Oh, and I had a bowl of Corn Flakes for breakfast, and I ordered off the Dollar Menu for lunch. Oh yeah, and I grabbed a bag of Doritos and a Red Bull inside the store, while I was getting gas ". That kind of shit. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:04:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to quantify "normal" Normal now seems to be massive portions, with carb heavy food, which is fine if you are burning 3000-4000 calories a day, but most people aren't. Even physical labor is way less labor instensive now, we have diesel and hydraulics. Civilization popped up and flourished when farming became popular, we could easily store calorie dense carb based food for long periods of time, so people were able to specialize their labor. Those people did just fine like that, being very fat used to be a sign of wealth, because it meant you could eat more than most people and did far less work. Now being fat is just a sign of lack of self control. By normal I mean not doing things like eliminating whole categories of nutrients. And I agree with you about portions, but it's also that processed foods are high in calories but don't satisfy the appetite. Old school calories storage like butter, lard, cheese, and salted meats are filling. People didn't eat as much, and, like you said, were more active. A bag of Doritoes is incredibly caloric but is not filling, and it's easy to put a whole one away (or a large pizza, or whatever) while you sit on the couch burning next to no calories. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:05:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorillas and horses are vegetarians and are jacked as fuck, as are omnivorous chimps. I'm all for meat. I love it. I feel best eating lots of meat and lots of veggies. I'm just immensely skeptical of all this talk about how it's impossible to get healthy or lose weight on a "normal" diet. America was a country of non-fatasses for a long time. That changed with the prevalence of processed (calorically dense, non filling) food and huge portions. "Calories in, calories out" isn't everything. But it is a huge thing (probably like 80% plus, according to Israetel). "Calories in, calories out" has been totally debunked by numerous studies, many quoted multiple times in other threads. No need to go there. It's about hormones and inflammation. Gorillas got bellies. Big ass bellies. So do horses. If I manage to make the transition to Carni I will check in. At this moment I have a beautiful 2 pound 2.2in thick chuck end ribeye, prime, in the oven reverse searing at 225 right now. When internal temp hits 129 it goes in the fridge for 10 minutes to take the edge off the surface heat, then onto a super hot charcoal grill for 90 seconds a side for a beautiful sear. That might be just the inspiration I need. I already avoided picking up my usual sautéed mushrooms, but I'm afraid there's a bottle of Cab waiting for me too. That'll likely mean I'll have to go "full bore" tomorrow. . . |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:07:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to quantify "normal" Normal now seems to be massive portions, with carb heavy food, which is fine if you are burning 3000-4000 calories a day, but most people aren't. Even physical labor is way less labor instensive now, we have diesel and hydraulics. Civilization popped up and flourished when farming became popular, we could easily store calorie dense carb based food for long periods of time, so people were able to specialize their labor. Those people did just fine like that, being very fat used to be a sign of wealth, because it meant you could eat more than most people and did far less work. Now being fat is just a sign of lack of self control. Actually it seems "civilization" had some difficulties with agriculture. Lots of interesting stuff from ancient Egypt about tooth decay, men with bellies and breasts, and other weird stuff showing up. "Now being fat is just a sign of lack of self control." Or it's a sign of following the USGov recommendations starting in the 80's, then following your doctor's prescribed diet based on no science whatsoever. Eat a steak: be satisfied for hours. Eat a muffin: be hungry in 90 minutes. Which is easier to overcome with "willpower?" I think we need a sticky thread with all the studies debunking this crap so it doesn't keep coming up. America is fat at least IN PART because we followed instructions from the 'experts." They said "reduce dietary fat intake." We did, huge numbers like over 20 percent reduction, and discovered we were hungry all the time. They said "increase grains and carbs." We did. We started getting fat at an incredible rate. they said "eat six times a day." We did. Our insulin stayed high 20 hours a day, and we got fatter and sicker. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:10:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Calories in, calories out" has been totally debunked by numerous studies, many quoted multiple times in other threads. No need to go there. It's about hormones and inflammation. Gorillas got bellies. Big ass bellies. So do horses. If I manage to make the transition to Carni I will check in. At this moment I have a beautiful 2 pound 2.2in thick chuck end ribeye, prime, in the oven reverse searing at 225 right now. When internal temp hits 129 it goes in the fridge for 10 minutes to take the edge off the surface heat, then onto a super hot charcoal grill for 90 seconds a side for a beautiful sear. That might be just the inspiration I need. I already avoided picking up my usual sautéed mushrooms, but I'm afraid there's a bottle of Cab waiting for me too. That'll likely mean I'll have to go "full bore" tomorrow. . . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gorillas and horses are vegetarians and are jacked as fuck, as are omnivorous chimps. I'm all for meat. I love it. I feel best eating lots of meat and lots of veggies. I'm just immensely skeptical of all this talk about how it's impossible to get healthy or lose weight on a "normal" diet. America was a country of non-fatasses for a long time. That changed with the prevalence of processed (calorically dense, non filling) food and huge portions. "Calories in, calories out" isn't everything. But it is a huge thing (probably like 80% plus, according to Israetel). "Calories in, calories out" has been totally debunked by numerous studies, many quoted multiple times in other threads. No need to go there. It's about hormones and inflammation. Gorillas got bellies. Big ass bellies. So do horses. If I manage to make the transition to Carni I will check in. At this moment I have a beautiful 2 pound 2.2in thick chuck end ribeye, prime, in the oven reverse searing at 225 right now. When internal temp hits 129 it goes in the fridge for 10 minutes to take the edge off the surface heat, then onto a super hot charcoal grill for 90 seconds a side for a beautiful sear. That might be just the inspiration I need. I already avoided picking up my usual sautéed mushrooms, but I'm afraid there's a bottle of Cab waiting for me too. That'll likely mean I'll have to go "full bore" tomorrow. . . Show me one person that ate below their TDEE calories for an extended period of time and didn't lose weight. The reason it works for so few people is because it's not fun to be in an energy deficit, it requires being hungry from time to time, which is something that a lot of people can't do anymore, that tiny bit of discomfort ovewhelms them. Almost everyone that claims it didn't work, either cheated, or had their math wrong. There are some people with seriously fucked up hormones due to their thyroid or whatever basically being toasted, but it's certainly not the norm when it comes to failed diet changes. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:11:12 PM EDT
[#16]
what will you do for fiber?
Maybe I'm just old but a weeks worth of beef might be hard to pass I think a salad once day a week might be required. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:11:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually it seems "civilization" had some difficulties with agriculture. Lots of interesting stuff from ancient Egypt about tooth decay, men with bellies and breasts, and other weird stuff showing up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have to quantify "normal" Normal now seems to be massive portions, with carb heavy food, which is fine if you are burning 3000-4000 calories a day, but most people aren't. Even physical labor is way less labor instensive now, we have diesel and hydraulics. Civilization popped up and flourished when farming became popular, we could easily store calorie dense carb based food for long periods of time, so people were able to specialize their labor. Those people did just fine like that, being very fat used to be a sign of wealth, because it meant you could eat more than most people and did far less work. Now being fat is just a sign of lack of self control. Actually it seems "civilization" had some difficulties with agriculture. Lots of interesting stuff from ancient Egypt about tooth decay, men with bellies and breasts, and other weird stuff showing up. Well, eating gruel and beer daily for years will do that, we see that now with Joe 6 pack having a belly and tits, but for the most part humans really took off as a direct result of being able to store calories efficiently and supplement them as needed when needed. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:12:37 PM EDT
[#18]
I have been carnivore for 3 years.
Lost 120lbs. COVID hit and I’ve gained 20 back. Not going to the gym sucks. I eat meat, eggs, cheese, and butter. I allow myself one cheat day every 3 weeks. So if I go out to a sushi restaurant or want a pizza, I indulge. Occasionally I will do a beef and butter fast. Just cow and cow accessories. Never felt better, my back pain is gone. Starting the diet blows. The keto flu is a motherfucker. Cholesterol has never been better. I’d say the only issue I have is water retention with pork products. I eat a lot of bacon and sausage. It can accumulate water. Anyone have questions for a 3 year carnivore? |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:14:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been carnivore for 3 years. Lost 120lbs. COVID hit and I've gained 20 back. Not going to the gym sucks. I eat meat, eggs, cheese, and butter. I allow myself one cheat day every 3 weeks. So if I go out to a sushi restaurant or want a pizza, I indulge. Occasionally I will do a beef and butter fast. Just cow and cow accessories. Never felt better, my back pain is gone. Starting the diet blows. The keto flu is a motherfucker. Cholesterol has never been better. I'd say the only issue I have is water retention with pork products. I eat a lot of bacon and sausage. It can accumulate water. Anyone have questions for a 3 year carnivore? |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:17:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Calories in, calories out" has been totally debunked by numerous studies, many quoted multiple times in other threads. No need to go there. It's about hormones and inflammation. Gorillas got bellies. Big ass bellies. So do horses. If I manage to make the transition to Carni I will check in. At this moment I have a beautiful 2 pound 2.2in thick chuck end ribeye, prime, in the oven reverse searing at 225 right now. When internal temp hits 129 it goes in the fridge for 10 minutes to take the edge off the surface heat, then onto a super hot charcoal grill for 90 seconds a side for a beautiful sear. That might be just the inspiration I need. I already avoided picking up my usual sautéed mushrooms, but I'm afraid there's a bottle of Cab waiting for me too. That'll likely mean I'll have to go "full bore" tomorrow. . . "Totally debunked" is not the same as "a competing hypothesis has been put forth." Gorillas and horses have large bellies because their guts are adapted to vegetarian diets and having large amounts of plant matter continuously passing through them. Yes, hormones and inflammation play a role. Insulin sensitivity is big, too. And while your body can do things like partition and store nutrients differently or slow down your basal metabolic rate, at the end of the day it can't cheat thermodynamics. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:19:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me one person that ate below their TDEE calories for an extended period of time and didn't lose weight. The reason it works for so few people is because it's not fun to be in an energy deficit, it requires being hungry from time to time, which is something that a lot of people can't do anymore, that tiny bit of discomfort ovewhelms them. Almost everyone that claims it didn't work, either cheated, or had their math wrong. There are some people with seriously fucked up hormones due to their thyroid or whatever basically being toasted, but it's certainly not the norm when it comes to failed diet changes. Show me one study (longer than 6 months) where people ate below their TDEE and their TDEE didn't down regulate to a point where their original "deficit" caloric level became a surplus. Start by googling the "Minnesota Starvation Diet" experiment. Restricting calories IN THE PRESENCE OF CARBS basically always ends the same way, UNLESS you are young and healthy. Even then it only works if you can live, as you say, "always hungry." If you're "always hungry," you're doing it wrong. and your brain thinks you are starving, and down regulates your TDEE until however much you're eating is no longer a deficit. I know you're not stupid; I also know you don't know the literature on this and haven't followed the multiple threads in this forum. Here is perhaps the most basic and clearest explanation:  Dr. Jason Fung - 'Therapeutic Fasting - Solving the Two-Compartment Problem' Here's a super short version:  Counting Calories Is A Ridiculous Way To Try And Lose Weight | Think | NBC News Here's all the science, footnoted:  Is a Calorie a Calorie? Processed Food, Experiment Gone Wrong Enjoy yourself. Back to my steak now. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:29:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Totally debunked" is not the same as "a competing hypothesis has been put forth." Gorillas and horses have large bellies because their guts are adapted to vegetarian diets and having large amounts of plant matter continuously passing through them. Yes, hormones and inflammation play a role. Insulin sensitivity is big, too. And while your body can do things like partition and store nutrients differently or slow down your basal metabolic rate, at the end of the day it can't cheat thermodynamics. I'll give you your first point. Perhaps a provocative use of hyperbole. The studies I've seen seem to indicate that a calorie is not a calorie. Yes vegetarian animals have big bellies. I'm trying to avoid that. And yes, hormones do "cheat" the laws of thermodynamics. Robert Lustig's work has shown this. Watch my third video above. A calorie is not a calorie. And one thing for sure: the competing "hypothesis" (in quotes because there was no science behind it) that dietary fat makes us fat and kills us has been shown to be false. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:47:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, how in the world did you gain 20lbs back in such a short period of time? That's...a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have been carnivore for 3 years. Lost 120lbs. COVID hit and I've gained 20 back. Not going to the gym sucks. I eat meat, eggs, cheese, and butter. I allow myself one cheat day every 3 weeks. So if I go out to a sushi restaurant or want a pizza, I indulge. Occasionally I will do a beef and butter fast. Just cow and cow accessories. Never felt better, my back pain is gone. Starting the diet blows. The keto flu is a motherfucker. Cholesterol has never been better. I'd say the only issue I have is water retention with pork products. I eat a lot of bacon and sausage. It can accumulate water. Anyone have questions for a 3 year carnivore? It’s been 4 months. My guess is thyroid is out of whack. Or stress. Lotta stress. Other theory is that I’ve been hitting the booze a bit more than normal. Or all of the above. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:59:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not the restrictive nature of the diet that does it so much, as it is how full-retard people go the other direction when they finally get tired of it. They lose their fuckin' minds and go off the reservation. If somebody were to say, for example, go straight carnivore for 30 days and then decide it kinds of sucks, they should start adding fresh vegetables and tubers into their diet. Maybe a little fruit in there for some sweet. You know, start cooking with a little garlic, onion, mushroom and such. Make a decent side salad (without drowning it in store-bought dressing and croutons...), and that sort of thing. They could just start adding real fucking food back into their diet, and go from there. Tweak as needed. What they tend to do, is swing the pendulum HARD in the other direction, and add back all kinds of processed unhealthy bullshit. "I tried it and I lost weight, but it's too hard. So I ate a sleeve of Girl Scout Thin Mints, boiled half a pound of spaghetti noodles, poured a heated up jar of Prego over it, buttered up a load of French bread, and scarfed that down. Oh, and I had a bowl of Corn Flakes for breakfast, and I ordered off the Dollar Menu for lunch. Oh yeah, and I grabbed a bag of Doritos and a Red Bull inside the store, while I was getting gas ". That kind of shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We had a lot of men in our church do it a few years back. Most lost some, but now are fatter than ever. Meat is really tasty, but there's lots of other non-meat stuff that's really tasty too. Nah. Diets that are highly restrictive tend to have results like this. If somebody were to say, for example, go straight carnivore for 30 days and then decide it kinds of sucks, they should start adding fresh vegetables and tubers into their diet. Maybe a little fruit in there for some sweet. You know, start cooking with a little garlic, onion, mushroom and such. Make a decent side salad (without drowning it in store-bought dressing and croutons...), and that sort of thing. They could just start adding real fucking food back into their diet, and go from there. Tweak as needed. What they tend to do, is swing the pendulum HARD in the other direction, and add back all kinds of processed unhealthy bullshit. "I tried it and I lost weight, but it's too hard. So I ate a sleeve of Girl Scout Thin Mints, boiled half a pound of spaghetti noodles, poured a heated up jar of Prego over it, buttered up a load of French bread, and scarfed that down. Oh, and I had a bowl of Corn Flakes for breakfast, and I ordered off the Dollar Menu for lunch. Oh yeah, and I grabbed a bag of Doritos and a Red Bull inside the store, while I was getting gas ". That kind of shit. Well, yeah, if people would go something like straight carnivore than ease stuff in that would work. Some people do, those people are likely the successful ones. But there's a psychological aspect to diet as well. The diets where it's a gung-ho radical change with many favorite foods forbidden, those are the ones that are stacked against ya. Months of end of depriving yourself of what seems like everything you previously enjoyed, then all the sudden a little cheat turns into a full-blown falling off the wagon, saying fuck it and blowing the wagon up.
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Posted: 8/10/2020 8:05:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And one thing for sure: the competing "hypothesis" (in quotes because there was no science behind it) that dietary fat makes us fat and kills us has been shown to be false. I'm not here to defend the food pyramid- it was the joint effort of shitty research and industrial interests. Ancel Keys, if not an outright fraud, clearly didn't understand the limitations of his data and was basically taking a verificationist approach to science. I also think the shift to a very carb heavy diet (especially simple carbs) fucked American health badly. That said, I simply haven't seen enough to be convinced that we can make the jump from "tons of carbs is bad" to "zero carbs is optimal." Limit them? Sure. I try to eat mostly meats and greens myself. But I do like some carbs if I have a hard workout planned. That's the other problem with trying to recommend a universal human diet. An athlete, an office worker, and an overweight person trying to reverse metabolic dysfunction are all trying to do different things with their food. I don't know why people want to think they should be eating the same things. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 10:25:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Life without peppers, onions, and garlic? Nah. This |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 11:33:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the other problem with trying to recommend a universal human diet. An athlete, an office worker, and an overweight person trying to reverse metabolic dysfunction are all trying to do different things with their food. I don't know why people want to think they should be eating the same things. Completely agreed. At best, I can tell someone what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Is it right for them (or anyone else for that matter)? I dunno. My wife started calling it the "Venn Diagram Diet" (she eats the same way I do now - much easier). People would notice that we're much thinner (especially me - call me a hyper-responder with this shit), and would ask what we're doing. We'd give them the quick and dirty elevator speech version of it, and they'd go "Oh! Yeah, that sounds like..." ...the Mediterranean Diet! "Yeah, it's pretty close I guess. I eat a lot more pork and red meat than they'd suggest, and I don't really dig on gluten grains like wheat, barley and rye - whole or otherwise. Other than that, yeah - it basically looks the same". ...Oh, so it's a Keto Diet! "Eh, kind of I guess. I don't think demonizing an entire class of macronutrient is necessary (remember fat in the 80's?!!). But given that nearly all of my carbohydrate comes from leafy vegetables, root vegetables, some starchy tubers here and there, and a token amount of fruit to add a little sweet to whatever I'm cooking, I only end up eating around 40-60g of carbohydrate on an average day. So I probably bounce in and out of ketosis periodically. I can't be bothered to test myself for it, because I don't care. I also don't pay attention to "macro targets". I just eat real food, and the ratios between macronutrients fall where they fall. I'm not going to start adding superfluous "fat bombs" to my food, without a good culinary reason. I also don't have any medical reasons to be hyper-focused on ratios of fat, protein and carbohydrate. Other than that, yeah - it basically looks the same". ...Oh, so it's a Paleo Diet! "Well, kind of. Like those guys, I don't eat gluten grains as a rule. But I seem to tolerate moderate amounts of rice and corn just fine, as long as I don't make it a featured staple of my diet. I also tolerate legumes just fine, as long as it's not where most of my energy and nutrition is coming from on a regular basis. I also have no problem using milk, cream and cheese in my cooking (some of them are a bit hard core on that - depends who you ask). Other than that, yeah - it basically looks the same." On any given day, you might look at what I'm eating for lunch and dinner and say it's Mediterranean (sometimes it is), Keto (sometimes it is), Paleo (sometimes it is), or Pescatarian (sometimes it is). And probably a bunch of other ones I've never heard of. Ergo..."The Venn Diagram Diet". EDIT: For example, tonight's dinner was a pork tenderloin, roasted Yukon Gold potatoes, and a small fruit salad consisting of banana, strawberry, and apple - topped with a little whipped cream (made from scratch by yours truly in 5 minutes in a stand mixer, using stevia that I ground into a fine powder instead of the normal powdered sugar). Pork Tenderloin: 8oz Potato: 6oz Banana: 2.5oz Apple: 2.5oz Strawberry: 1oz Heavy Cream: 1oz Butter: 1 tbsp Potato: 6oz Calories: 820 Carbohydrate: 59g (51g net, without the 8g of fiber) Protein: 69g Fat: 35g Depending on what diet you like best, what I just ate probably shares 80% of it. Ditch the heavy cream (and maybe the butter depending on who you ask) in favor of an animal fat, and it'd probably be Paleo. Ditch the pork and replace it with a salmon fillet and it'd be lacto-vegetarian or pescatarian. Do that and replace the butter (and maybe the heavy cream) with olive oil, and it'd be Mediterranean. Lose the potatoes and there would only be 28g of carbs, making it Keto depending on what else you ate that day. Take it a step further and eliminate the fruit, and it would be effectively be zero carb and therefore super Keto or something. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 8:27:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, yeah, if people would go something like straight carnivore than ease stuff in that would work. Some people do, those people are likely the successful ones. But there's a psychological aspect to diet as well. The diets where it's a gung-ho radical change with many favorite foods forbidden, those are the ones that are stacked against ya. Months of end of depriving yourself of what seems like everything you previously enjoyed, then all the sudden a little cheat turns into a full-blown falling off the wagon, saying fuck it and blowing the wagon up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We had a lot of men in our church do it a few years back. Most lost some, but now are fatter than ever. Meat is really tasty, but there's lots of other non-meat stuff that's really tasty too. Nah. Diets that are highly restrictive tend to have results like this. If somebody were to say, for example, go straight carnivore for 30 days and then decide it kinds of sucks, they should start adding fresh vegetables and tubers into their diet. Maybe a little fruit in there for some sweet. You know, start cooking with a little garlic, onion, mushroom and such. Make a decent side salad (without drowning it in store-bought dressing and croutons...), and that sort of thing. They could just start adding real fucking food back into their diet, and go from there. Tweak as needed. What they tend to do, is swing the pendulum HARD in the other direction, and add back all kinds of processed unhealthy bullshit. "I tried it and I lost weight, but it's too hard. So I ate a sleeve of Girl Scout Thin Mints, boiled half a pound of spaghetti noodles, poured a heated up jar of Prego over it, buttered up a load of French bread, and scarfed that down. Oh, and I had a bowl of Corn Flakes for breakfast, and I ordered off the Dollar Menu for lunch. Oh yeah, and I grabbed a bag of Doritos and a Red Bull inside the store, while I was getting gas ". That kind of shit. Well, yeah, if people would go something like straight carnivore than ease stuff in that would work. Some people do, those people are likely the successful ones. But there's a psychological aspect to diet as well. The diets where it's a gung-ho radical change with many favorite foods forbidden, those are the ones that are stacked against ya. Months of end of depriving yourself of what seems like everything you previously enjoyed, then all the sudden a little cheat turns into a full-blown falling off the wagon, saying fuck it and blowing the wagon up. Sustainability is key. I've seen Atkins and Keto adherents blimp out in a couple months after "finishing" their diet. They drop a ton of water weight and some fat, 2 months later they're bigger than they were when they started. I'm not at their dinner table monitoring their diet, but I don't think all of them completely fell off the wagon. At least a couple are "hard charger" types that slowly reintroduced carbs and its as if their bodies forgot how to process them. So, IMO, if you want to drop weight fast for a special event then go hardcore keto, paleo, Atkins. Long term, I question it's viability for most of the population. I like a bit of sugar in my coffee, but I'm not going to eat a box of cookies (lots of sugar rocks my guts terribly). I love pasta, but I don't eat a massive plate full every other day. I like real mayonnaise on my turkey sandwich (Dukes only) and think miracle whip is for fags, but I don't use a jar a week. If you want a cookie, eat a cookie but note the calories and sugars and think about how much time that'll eat up on the treadmill/stairclimber/hit cardio session. As I've lost weight, the results come slower, but they're still coming. It takes more time, but I can sustain what I'm doing. Seems our biggest problem is the desire for immediate gratification...I've never known that to work long term. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 8:50:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Nobody's gonna touch that raw meat post from page 1?
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Posted: 8/11/2020 8:54:29 AM EDT
[#30]
I did it. For quite sometime. Fucked up my guts. Shitting blocks of concrete isn’t as fun as eating only meat.
Broccoli is my friend. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 9:14:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Sedentary life style and lots of processed foods let to the current obesity problem. Move more, eat clean. I lost 78 pounds doing the following:
Exercise 1 hour daily Cut out sugar Cut out fried foods Cut out pre-packaged foods Don’t eat like a pig Small dinner, don’t eat after 7:00 pm If you want to eat just meat, knock yourself out, but if you aren’t physically active you are still out of shape. It’s a lot easier to build a diet to support an active lifestyle by incorporating all three macros: fats, proteins, carbs. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 9:16:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Even actual carnivorous animals eat plant matter, they just need their prey to partially digest it for them first since they lack the ability to do so.
Fad diets are silly. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 9:39:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? Want to know how I know you’ve never been in week one of Keto?   TC |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 9:41:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eventually I do, too, but the first few days could go through a screen-door without hitting anything Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you like pooping your pants it's a good idea to ease into it - a day or two the first week and add from there. How bad was your diet before carnivore that eating meat makes you shit yourself? I don't think it's the addition of extra meat, it's the absence of any ruffage. When I go meat/eggs heavy and light on carbs I poop quite a bit less. Goes from every morning to every other morning sometimes. Eventually I do, too, but the first few days could go through a screen-door without hitting anything Poop thread?  I need to do something because I’m fat and making zero progress. Can’t shake the alcohol. Just two or three drinks a day but it’s enough to keep the weight on. TC |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 9:47:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not the restrictive nature of the diet that does it so much, as it is how full-retard people go the other direction when they finally get tired of it. They lose their fuckin' minds and go off the reservation. If somebody were to say, for example, go straight carnivore for 30 days and then decide it kinds of sucks, they should start adding fresh vegetables and tubers into their diet. Maybe a little fruit in there for some sweet. You know, start cooking with a little garlic, onion, mushroom and such. Make a decent side salad (without drowning it in store-bought dressing and croutons...), and that sort of thing. They could just start adding real fucking food back into their diet, and go from there. Tweak as needed. What they tend to do, is swing the pendulum HARD in the other direction, and add back all kinds of processed unhealthy bullshit. "I tried it and I lost weight, but it's too hard. So I ate a sleeve of Girl Scout Thin Mints, boiled half a pound of spaghetti noodles, poured a heated up jar of Prego over it, buttered up a load of French bread, and scarfed that down. Oh, and I had a bowl of Corn Flakes for breakfast, and I ordered off the Dollar Menu for lunch. Oh yeah, and I grabbed a bag of Doritos and a Red Bull inside the store, while I was getting gas ". That kind of shit.  TC |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 9:49:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sustainability is key. I've seen Atkins and Keto adherents blimp out in a couple months after "finishing" their diet. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:15:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eventually I do, too, but the first few days could go through a screen-door without hitting anything This guy speaks the truth. I did carnivore for 30 days (only meat, salt, and water.) The first week was like pointing a Super Soaker point blank into your toilet. But it started thickening up after a week. - I dropped 26 lbs in the 30 days (also doing 45min of cardio 4x week.) - My energy levels and my sex drive were through the effing roof (the Mrs. loved the diet the first week! She was exhausted by the third week.) - I slept better than I've ever slept before, and completely stopped snoring. It was to the point that my wife would freak out at night, and check to see if I was still breathing because I've always snored. - The biggest benefit to me, was that my asthma was completely nonexistent while I was on the diet. I've had asthma my entire life. I have always played sports and remained active, the asthma is just something that I live with (it has always been very controllable.) I didn't work out the first 5 days of the diet (see first line of post) but from my very first workout, my lungs were 100%. I couldn't think of a time that they had ever felt that clear. It was seriously something that almost brought me to tears. I'm 31yo. Started the diet an honest 40lbs overweight. After carnivore, I transitioned to Paleo (just added fruits, vegetables, and nuts.) The only negative effect that I had, at the very end, my mouth got incredibly dry. To the point that I was washing every bite of food down with water like I was in one of those hotdog eating competitions or something. I should have been drinking bone broth throughout the diet to counter this, I just never did. Give the diet a try. I'm definitely a believer now. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plants often produce toxins as their defense against predation, since they can’t run. The theory is that less toxins equals less inflammation and immune system issues. I personally think that as long as you’re getting enough fat it’ll probably work out just fine. 
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:33:59 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Want to know how I know you’ve never been in week one of Keto? TC @AA717driver I'm about 1.5 years on strict keto. Down almost 60lb. I magically stopped losing weight when I hit my normal BMI range. I guess that's nature's way of telling me that's how much I'm supposed to weigh. Went from 215 to 150. Now I have been holding steady at 160 and I eat a fuck ton of meat. Some days I eat until I am uncomfortably full. (Heavy lifting days) 
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:40:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Herbivores: https://cdn.hswstatic.com/gif/hippo-sunscreen.jpg https://www.iucn.org/sites/dev/files/styles/850x500_no_menu_article/public/content/images/2020/south-western_black_rhino_facing_right_c_dave_hamman_photography.jpg?itok=Q7SkAeKV https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/d9/94/e2d9947a14c1d2d996fcfb0270186f44.jpg Carnivores: https://lp-cms-production.imgix.net/image_browser/leopard-africa-safari.jpg?format=auto?crop=entropy&fit=crop&h=421&sharp=10&vib=20&w=748 https://assets-jpcust.jwpsrv.com/thumbnails/rytmbwxn-720.jpg https://imgk.timesnownews.com/story/black_panther.jpg?tr=w-1200,h-900 To be fair, the carnivores have to run to catch their food... |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:58:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sedentary life style and lots of processed foods let to the current obesity problem. Move more, eat clean. I lost 78 pounds doing the following: Exercise 1 hour daily Cut out sugar Cut out fried foods Cut out pre-packaged foods Don’t eat like a pig Small dinner, don’t eat after 7:00 pm If you want to eat just meat, knock yourself out, but if you aren’t physically active you are still out of shape. It’s a lot easier to build a diet to support an active lifestyle by incorporating all three macros: fats, proteins, carbs. I'm down 25lbs doing the same thing. Cardio, lifting, not eating tons of food every day....but also type of food really matters. I dont really care for sugar, it was more cutting out fried stuff....wings and whatnot. I give myself one cheat day, usually my Saturday I'll get wings and a burger or whatever. I do about 30mins of hard cardio 3x a week then lift(about 1 hour at the gym) and just eat clean and in moderation. I also only really drink water, unsweetened tea and black coffee It's a lifestyle change....mostly related to intake and exercise, not some magical fucking diet that eliminates entire food groups. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:03:16 AM EDT
[#42]
I’m almost a week in to it coming from keto. Each day I have been eating progressively less (who would’ve thought). My purpose is to see how my body reacts as I slowly add things back in like dairy. On keto, while I lost 20 pounds in two months, it was like a yo yo. Some days I’d weigh a pound less then the next be a half to a pound and a half heavier. It seemed that weight gain always occurred the day after consuming any dairy. I’ve found that my carbs have to be less than 5 else I don’t lose weight. Weird huh?
As far as how much I eat now I only eat when I’m hungry and stop when full (what a concept). The last time I ate was noon yesterday and it was two homemade hamburger patties and a half of a ribeye. The last time I ate before that was the day before around 1pm. So to illustrate I’m going a long while without needing to eat. I notice my body needs more water wearing just meat which I attribute to not getting the water from veggies. My stools have been every other day and small at that. No gas, bloating, nor any other negative response. My sleeping still sucks but I’ve been waking up strong 5am full awake whereas before I’d pull myself out of bed close to 7am and feel groggy. I did have a strong desire for fruit on Sunday which is odd because I haven’t had fruit for several weeks. Certainly no sugar except monk fruit which is sugar but does not cause an insulin response. I’ve ran out of ketone blood strips but know I’m in ketosis most of the day because I have a sweet taste in my mouth. I’ll be getting more today and can’t wait to see how my blood is after 8+ hours of not eating. I’ll probably go a 1-2 weeks on carnivore just to see my body’s response. Then I’ll reintroduce a veggie and continue that to really understand what my body likes and rejects. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:16:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had a lot of men in our church do it a few years back. Most lost some, but now are fatter than ever. They’re fatter because they strayed from eating healthy to eating shit food. Unless you’re saying that they’re fatter despite still eating nothing but meat. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:27:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorillas and horses are vegetarians and are jacked as fuck, as are omnivorous chimps. I'm all for meat. I love it. I feel best eating lots of meat and lots of veggies. I'm just immensely skeptical of all this talk about how it's impossible to get healthy or lose weight on a "normal" diet. America was a country of non-fatasses for a long time. That changed with the prevalence of processed (calorically dense, non filling) food and huge portions. "Calories in, calories out" isn't everything. But it is a huge thing (probably like 80% plus, according to Israetel). You can’t pin it all on processed foods and huge portions. Adding sugar to everything, being told eat three meals a day, eat grains, etc has done us harm. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:32:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what will you do for fiber? Maybe I'm just old but a weeks worth of beef might be hard to pass I think a salad once day a week might be required. You’re body absorbs protein and much not used is passed in urine. Your poop is fiber since your body doesn’t do anything with it. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:45:35 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FOR ME, there is no "finishing", I can never go back to eating carbs. I went from 298 to 185 in a year and have maintained at that weight for 8 months now. I KNOW if I ever try to reintroduce carbs in any form or fashion, my inner fat boy is going to make his reappearance in a most grotesque way. At 51, I'm below my HS weight and feel great, why would I ever want to give that up? Exactly. This is a life style change, not a diet to me. You can’t be a junkie, get cleaned at rehab, then go back to being a junkie and expect not to not be a junkie again. Or maybe you can but I can’t. I’ll never be able to go back to processed foods, fried food, or sugar anything again unless I have a desire to be unhealthy. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:49:35 AM EDT
[#47]
I like my meat, but eating only meat sounds extremely unhealthy.
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Posted: 8/11/2020 11:58:35 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like my meat, but eating only meat sounds extremely unhealthy. Watch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B086844B7N/ |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 12:02:23 PM EDT
[#49]
Diets are simple. If it comes in a bag or a box, don't eat it.
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Posted: 8/11/2020 12:13:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can’t pin it all on processed foods and huge portions. Adding sugar to everything, being told eat three meals a day, eat grains, etc has done us harm. I agree on the sugar, but also sugar is a huge component of processed foods, so I'm not sure that they're really separate issues. We pay farmers to grow corn we don't need, figure out how to make sugar out of it for dirt cheap, then food manufacturers realized that they can sweeten everything (which I guess most people like) and increase sales. Seriously, though, sugar makes everything taste weird. I hate regular ketchup and most breads in this country because they're sweetened to an insane degree. Salad dressing, pizza sauce, you name it. The dangers of sugar were starting to be well known around the time that the government began issuing dietary guidelines. Check out "Pure, White, and Deadly." |
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